Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: davidpt40 on November 29, 2003, 12:22:03 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/11/28/sprj.irq.dreaded.visit.ap/index.html
'I knew they weren't coming to recruit anyone'
Friday, November 28, 2003 Posted: 10:32 PM EST (0332 GMT)
Ted Benson and Catherine Perusse hold the flag and ribbons they received after their son Spc. Robert T. Benson’s was buried last week.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Catherine Perusse remembers the chilling call she and husband Ted got one recent Tuesday. The military phoned to tell them their son, Robert T. Benson, of Spokane, Washington, had been badly wounded in Iraq and transferred to a hospital in Kuwait. Surgery had gone "as planned."
That's the last thing the family heard until 20 hours later when they were told he was dead.
"We were just very frustrated to have a 20-hour time period with a very brief message about his status," says Perusse, Benson's stepmother. "You would consider five minutes a terrible time to wait to hear about your child."
There is no good way to tell someone their husband, wife, son or daughter has been killed in action.
Still, as the bodies of U.S. servicemen come home from Iraq, some families are disquieted by the military's handling of this heartbreaking news.
Their grief has been compounded by the slow pace of getting word, or the lack of detail when they do find out.
Even in this world of rapid communications, some families complain that they hit barriers when trying to get in touch with someone who may have information about their loved ones.
Lisa Perez's brother died in July and she still doesn't have all her questions answered.
An officer notified Perez and her mother that 24-year-old Pfc. Wilfredo Perez Jr. and two other soldiers were killed in a grenade attack in July while guarding a children's hospital in Iraq. But when the officer came by to tell them the news, he took their Social Security numbers and was out the door in 10 minutes.
"He handled his business and that was it," says Perez, 25, of Ridgewood, New York.
'We don't deal in rumors, we deal in the facts as we know them'
The military does its best to get notification out to families as swiftly as possible -- within 24 hours ideally -- on what it does know about the circumstances surrounding death and injury.
That's often no easy task in a complex war so far away.
"We don't deal in rumors, we deal in the facts as we know them, and we are as honest with family members as we possibly can be," John Molino, deputy undersecretary of defense for military, community and family policy.
Each branch of the armed forces does the notifying when its service member dies or is wounded.
A notification officer and a chaplain go to the spouse's home, or if single, to the parents' home.
Sometimes, an organization commander will go, too. They bring with them a manila envelop with the casualty report.
Additional relatives get a visit if the death was caused by hostile action or by a terrorist attack.
Molino says in that first visit, mainly the family wants "just a quiet moment."
Perusse wanted more than that after the initial word her stepson was wounded. Benson was shot in the head at a checkpoint in Baghdad.
She found the lack of communication between the family and the military frustrating -- time zone differences seemed to hamper their ability to be in the know faster.
"You'd think if we could talk to the moon, we should have been able to talk to Kuwait."
Despite all that, she and other family members know it is not easy for the military, either.
"The Army has been wonderful," she says, "and treated us and our son with great respect."
Sympathy, compensation to survivors
Relatives dread nothing more than the unexpected drop-in by a military officer while a family member is on duty overseas.
John Johnson, the father of Specialist Darius T. Jennings, knew the instant he saw an officer and chaplain's car pull up to his house in Cordova, South Carolina, that something bad had happened to his son.
"I knew they weren't coming to recruit anyone," he says. Jennings, 22, was killed when the helicopter he was riding in was shot down in Al Fallujah, Iraq.
Johnson was standing in his driveway when he saw them. "I know it's my son, but tell me how it happened," he recalled telling them. They went into the house. '"Is this the right address?"' they asked, just to be absolutely sure. "They grabbed my wife's hand and told her that her son was killed in a helicopter attack."
"I feel that the Army...they did what they could," he said.
More than 435 U.S. service members have died since the beginning of military operations in Iraq -- about 300 of them since President Bush declared May 1 that major combat operations had ended.
The president has sent a letter to families of each fallen soldier, visited some of the injured ones in hospitals and met with groups of families.
Recently, Bush visited Fort Carson military base in Colorado. Fort Carson has lost 32 soldiers in Iraq, and Bush was meeting privately with nearly 100 relatives of the victims. Four of the victims were among the 16 soldiers killed November 2 when a helicopter was shot down in the dangerous Sunni Triangle near Fallujah, Iraq.
A casualty assistance officer follows up at a prearranged time with the family a day or two after they've been notified of the death.
The officer gives families details on compensation to survivors: a death gratuity of $12,000; reimbursement of up to $6,900 for burial expenses; the soldier's unpaid pay and allowances; a monthly check for the surviving spouse until remarriage and surviving children until they reach a certain age; and Social Security benefits.
A letter from the commander follows.
The casualty assistance officer tries to cater to the family's immediate needs. Burial logistics are discussed.
Members who die while on active duty are eligible for burial at Arlington National Cemetery in Virginia, where the nation buries many of its war dead. But many families choose to have their loved ones buried in their hometown.
The 'healing', or whatever you may call it, can't really begin until you know what really went on. If one of my family members in the armed services were killed, I would like to know the details
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What's your point? They made every attempt to provide information. You have one case where 20 hours elapsed, well he was probably in recovery.
Then something goes south, and the next word you hear is "Sorry He/She is dead"
Picture this, you're in CA and your mom is in Maine. She's in a Car Wreck, you're notified "hey mom is in a car wreck surgery was performed."
She goes south, do you think the doctors would call you and say
"Stink hit the fan and we are going to fight for her life after we get off the phone with you"
As much as we would love to have that instant notification there are other wounded to tend to as well.
:rolleyes: Typical for you...
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Soundsl like they are doing every thing they can do to me.
Shame that the wounded and dead have to return in secrecy though.
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Why does this dork constantly post such crap?
I think he revels in bad news. What a pathetic individual dorkpt is, I hope he just goes away.
How about nobody respond any longer to his crap and maybe if we ignore him, he will get the hint and fade away.
dago
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20 hours doesn't seem that long to me (of course it would seem a lot longer where it my kid).
but considering what else the military had going on, 20 hours to get a report stateside and dispatch a chaplan (who may have had other stops to make) is not at all unreasonable.
much better than having a cab-driver deliver a telegram (like it was done in the early 60's).
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The 'healing', or whatever you may call it, can't really begin until you know what really went on. If one of my family members in the armed services were killed, I would like to know the details
He just doesn't get it. The military is telling the people all they really need to know. They tell them their family member died as a result of hostile action, and provide the basic details. Knowing any more than that really won't help, do they want to know the gory details? "he was shot in the head with an AK47" Will that help? No it won't. The healing will come with time, and only with time. The people who have the hardest times are the ones who have sent a family member to war, and never heard anything again.
To many people want to demand to talk to someone who was there, and quite honestly it isn't possible logistically, and if it could be arrainged, it would be brutally hard on the person who had to talk to them and describe how their friend or comrade died.
People today are stuck with this sense of entitlement, they think they should be able to demand every thing they want. They might just be grateful that they are getting timely notice. In previous wars, it might be hours, days or weeks before someone heard they had lost a loved one. They certainly never expected or got hourly hospital reports. It would be great if that could be done, as I can't imagine anything more terrifying than knowing your child or loved one was injured and you couldn't get details or know how they are doing, but somethings we want aren't always possible.
GScholz, are you now going to pretend you were injured too?
dago
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Actually, knowing the minute (even gory) details do help with grieving.
Why are you all hung up on the 20 hours? That's not what davidpt40 commented on. I think he's thinking more like "months or years" than "hours" (so does the article btw.)
Correct.
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I finally learned to put this person on my ignore list.
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Yeah I think the CO and the entire chain of command should personally have a video conference with each family and go over the AARs and second guess all the decisions and actions leading up to the casualty. I think that would really contribute to easing the family's grief. :rolleyes:
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The person that started this thread and several others has a severe recto-cranial inversion problem. He does not deserve contempt but rather pity.
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Ok Dago, I have no idea what you're rambling about. You've been calling me a liar and fraud for quite some time now without any cause. What is your problem? Why do you feel the need to discredit me and my service?
Though this is hardly the thread to get into it, I will briefly explain why I do not respect you.
When the war in Iraq started, you came on this board and judged the actions of men under fire quite critically. You made statements condeming them, condeming their tactics, and the manner in which you did so boldly proclaimed to anyone who paid attention that you had no real understanding of the confusion and fear prevalent in almost every soldier under direct fire for the first time.
I suggested that unless a person had been in ACTUAL combat, they should not judge. By your statements and actions, I was and still am convinced you have never actually been shot at from close range, if at all, nor do I believe you have ever fired a rifle at anyone.
You first eluded to your service time, and eluded to the fact that there was combat where you were. You mentioned a village that was mortared near where you were stationed as proof of your combat experience, though I gather you weren't at the village when it happened.
I respect anyone who serves proudly in his/her countries military, but I cannot share that respect with someone who would claim experiences he has not honestly been through. I sure can't stomach someone who sits in judgement of men on a battlefield if he didn't share that battlefield. Your harsh criticisms of the US military early in the Iraq war was unwarranted and from my viewpoint, without basis of understanding.
Saying that, I am left feeling that you have tried to pass yourself off to people on this board as an experienced combat soldier. There are people who have served in the military that can be called soldier, there are soldiers who have served in a combat zone but never fired a weapon at an enemy or heard a bullet pass over thier head, and then there are combat soldiers who have engaged in direct lethal combat.
I think you are the middle one. I think you pretend to be the last one.
That is my opinion, and it is formed from your own comments. I may be right, I may be wrong. But you have never offered anything to make me feel otherwise.
I have never served in the military, and I have never pretended otherwise. I was a couple years to young for Vietnam, though boys my age had their draft numbers picked, we weren't called.
I almost enlisted once, but decided not to do so since I was married at the time and had a good job.
What brings this home most is the pride I have in my son, a Paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne. He has seen combat, he has been shot at, up close, on a number of occasions, more than I know of. He has had to fire his weapon at armed enemy in firefights. A vehicle in blew up right in front of him while in a convoy in Afghanistan. He has had rockets land in his FOB near enough I could hear them on the phone during a call home.
That is some of why I disrespect you. I think you are trying to steal glory and respect due experienced combat soldiers. They earned respect, and noone who hasn't shared those ordeals should sit in judgement. If I am wrong about you, I am sorry. But, that is how I feel, and how I will continue to feel.
dago
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Originally posted by Dago
Though this is hardly the thread to get into it, I will briefly explain why I do not respect you.
When the war in Iraq started, you came on this board and judged the actions of men under fire quite critically. You made statements condeming them, condeming their tactics, and the manner in which you did so boldly proclaimed to anyone who paid attention that you had no real understanding of the confusion and fear prevalent in almost every soldier under direct fire for the first time.
I suggested that unless a person had been in ACTUAL combat, they should not judge. By your statements and actions, I was and still am convinced you have never actually been shot at from close range, if at all, nor do I believe you have ever fired a rifle at anyone.
You first eluded to your service time, and eluded to the fact that there was combat where you were. You mentioned a village that was mortared near where you were stationed as proof of your combat experience, though I gather you weren't at the village when it happened.
I respect anyone who serves proudly in his/her countries military, but I cannot share that respect with someone who would claim experiences he has not honestly been through. I sure can't stomach someone who sits in judgement of men on a battlefield if he didn't share that battlefield. Your harsh criticisms of the US military early in the Iraq war was unwarranted and from my viewpoint, without basis of understanding.
Saying that, I am left feeling that you have tried to pass yourself off to people on this board as an experienced combat soldier. There are people who have served in the military that can be called soldier, there are soldiers who have served in a combat zone but never fired a weapon at an enemy or heard a bullet pass over thier head, and then there are combat soldiers who have engaged in direct lethal combat.
I think you are the middle one. I think you pretend to be the last one.
That is my opinion, and it is formed from your own comments. I may be right, I may be wrong. But you have never offered anything to make me feel otherwise.
I have never served in the military, and I have never pretended otherwise. I was a couple years to young for Vietnam, though boys my age had their draft numbers picked, we weren't called.
I almost enlisted once, but decided not to do so since I was married at the time and had a good job.
What brings this home most is the pride I have in my son, a Paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne. He has seen combat, he has been shot at, up close, on a number of occasions, more than I know of. He has had to fire his weapon at armed enemy in firefights. A vehicle in blew up right in front of him while in a convoy in Afghanistan. He has had rockets land in his FOB near enough I could hear them on the phone during a call home.
That is some of why I disrespect you. I think you are trying to steal glory and respect due experienced combat soldiers. They earned respect, and noone who hasn't shared those ordeals should sit in judgement. If I am wrong about you, I am sorry. But, that is how I feel, and how I will continue to feel.
dago
Well said, and I share your opinion.
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I have never served in the military.
The only part of your post worth quoting, dago. For this sentence alone, you've got no right to judge GScholz' service. You lambast him for making baseless comments on subjects he doesn't understand, but you do exactly the same time and time again. Give it a rest.
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(http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/Shared/News2001/MoonLanding/BuzzAldrin.jpg)
Here's a picture of me on the moon. Proof that I was there.
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The Americans winning PR points every second here...
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Originally posted by Maniac
The Americans winning PR points every second here...
I think it's fairly obvious you either don't realize we could care less about PR, or you have no clue what PR is.
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I think it's fairly obvious you either don't realize we could care less about PR, or you have no clue what PR is.
Ya, CC, PR may have been the wrong word to have been used.
But i do realize that Americans couldnt care less about what the rest of the world thinks...
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Quote:
"But i do realize that Americans couldnt care less about what the rest of the world thinks..."
Glad that has finally dawned on you.....
C.
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Glad that has finally dawned on you.....
Its been obvious for decades...
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Originally posted by Maniac
Its been obvious for decades...
Not so obvious... Some people still wonder why someone would hijack an airliner and drive it into one of our tallest buildings.
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Some people still wonder why someone would hijack an airliner and drive it into one of our tallest buildings.
Yes i know, i wasnt speaking for the Americans...
I know that ALOT of the Americans had no clue that their goverments politics offended anyone...
And 70% of the Americans thinks that the Iraq war is about 9/11.
Well i guess that all hope aint lost yet, i met this "All American" dude Vince at a bar in a small town of Sweden last week, to say the least he had an eye opener by his visit here...
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GScholz, I believe you were in the service, I believe you served in Bosnia. Never said you didn't. And I respect that you did your time. I still don't believe you ever participated in a real battle, a real firefight, and to your credit, you have not claimed you did. You just seem to want to act like it, and have others think you did.
I think driving in a convoy that might be sniped would be unnerving. BUT, I still don't think that is the same as a small group of men on foot or in a vehicle coming under sustained close combat, being shot at at close range by multiple attackers. You badmouthed American soldiers who were in exactly that situation, and I won't forget that. They were not just sniped at, they were under direct assault.
So you criticise me for being critical to soldiers because you don't believe I've seen any combat, yet by your own admission has not seen any yourself. You've never been a soldier, yet you seem to think you can tell whether I have been one or not.
Never said you weren't a soldier, never said you didn't serve. Just dont believe you were ever in a true battle. Tell me if I am wrong. I have never before heard a combat experienced soldier bad mouth troops under fire for defending themselves until I happened upon your posts. That was a first. Every other combat experienced soldier understood more than you seemed to.
But i do realize that Americans couldnt care less about what the rest of the world thinks...
Maniac,
Like Cabby, I am glad that you finally realized that. If we spent all our time worrying about what others think, we would be afraid to do anything. I think better the rest of the world worries about what we think of them, it is a fact that many countries rely upon us for support in many ways. When we start letting our fear of others opinion control our nation and it's actions, we cede the right to control ourselves. We choose not to do that.
Not to mention we could bomb all the rest of you into the stone age. :eek:
You lambast him for making baseless comments on subjects he doesn't understand, but you do exactly the same time and time again.
Dowding, I will respond to persons like GScholz anytime and in any way I care to, and I will not take direction from you. When he starts bad mouthing your countries soldiers as they fight and die, you can decide to accept it or you can decide to stand up to him. Until then, you aren't involved.
And as far as what anyone in Europe thinks of the USA, we are secure in the knowledge that the USA is the greatest nation on earth. The vast majority of the animosty expressed by sniveling Eurotrash is spawned of deep seated jealousy and resentment that we are in fact a great nation, our standard of living is probably the very best in the world on average, and we don't have to give a dam if anyone likes it or not.
Dago
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Originally posted by Maniac
But i do realize that Americans couldnt care less about what the rest of the world thinks...
As opposed to Sweden? Sweden pretty much has always looked out for, ummmm .... Sweden .
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Originally posted by GScholz
Sweden acknowledges international courts, you do not.
Yes! International courts, where Syrian ad Iranian judges hold sawy over the USA on human rights matters... What a pathetic joke....
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Originally posted by GScholz
Sweden acknowledges international courts, you do not.
What international court order did we disobey?
Let's step back and take a look at the nations in history that have been the most powerful in their time. Look back at all of them and tell me one that didn't use their power to dominate other countries and basically take what they wanted from others. You think any one of them ever bowed to or even considered world opinion?
Now look at the US. We don't go around taking over or attacking countries just because we feel like it. Get a clue, or better yet, why not get off our backs and jump onto the backs of the REAL problem countries of this world.
Give us a break, please. We are FAR from being an evil nation in a world FULL of evil and corrupt nations, yet because we attacked Iraq , we can't be trusted???? Who can you trust then? My God, people amaze me to no end.
We are pretty damn benevolent if you ask me. The world is lucky that a country such as ours is the one with all this power..... and restraint! You may not like everything we do, but you must aknowledge that we are a peaceful nation and slow to rush into war.
We have given aid to many many countries and helped maintain peace beyond the extent that most other nations ever have.
And why point out that the US attacked Iraq without "permission" and yet not seem to give a damn or mention all the other countries around the world that have attacked and been attacked without "permission"?
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but I have been in fire fights and I have been shot at by almost any conventional weapon class there is from pistol to artillery. On one occasion the lead truck in our convoy was disabled by mortar fire and when the Pakistani BMP's came to help us extract the driver and withdraw my squad MG-3 was dry, we had no shells left for the Karl Gustav and I was down to two mags left for my rifle and the other two riflemen in my squad weren't better off. That time we were lucky, the Pakistani armor saved us just as we were running out of ammo.
GScholz, this is all I ever asked from you. I wanted to know if you had actually been in combat, not just in a combat zone. I do offer my apologies as to my accusations that you had not experienced combat. I will take your word on your experience, if you are not honest, it is something you will have to live with.
I will harrass you no longer and hope that we can move forward on this board with respect for each others nation.
dago
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Originally posted by Dago
I will harrass you no longer, or at least until you again show any more disrespect towards our troops.
dago
Can I pick up the slack?
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I think better the rest of the world worries about what we think of them, it is a fact that many countries rely upon us for support in many ways. When we start letting our fear of others opinion control our nation and it's actions, we cede the right to control ourselves. We choose not to do that.
Fear of others opinion?
Try to value others opinions instead...
Yes and the countrys that rely on your support has indeed sent troops to Irak, even if the citizens of these countrys has a vast majority of being against this, these countrys goverments have ruled that the support from America is way more important then their own citizens opinions.
Afterall you do realize how many nations are in Irak right now right?
Not to mention we could bomb all the rest of you into the stone age.
Yes i know. With WMD.
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With WMD.
Yup, and dont forget it. :rofl
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Ahh yes, another thread hijacked by foreigners judging what the U.S. does. Yep, the US is bad and we don't do anything for anyone else, and we will attack you at the drop of a hat just for the fun of it and all of our citizens are complete morons. Does that about sum it up?
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Originally posted by SOB
Ahh yes, another thread hijacked by foreigners judging what the U.S. does. Yep, the US is bad and we don't do anything for anyone else, and we will attack you at the drop of a hat just for the fun of it and all of our citizens are complete morons. Does that about sum it up?
nicely :rofl
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Thanks for sharing the pictures GScholz, appreciate it.
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Originally posted by SOB
Ahh yes, another thread hijacked by foreigners judging what the U.S. does. Yep, the US is bad and we don't do anything for anyone else, and we will attack you at the drop of a hat just for the fun of it and all of our citizens are complete morons. Does that about sum it up?
add perverted and you pretty much got it I think. But I reserve the right to add to the list in the future...
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GScholz Hey people he Is or was a soldier so show him the respect he Is due!
Norway Is lucky to have you.
BTW When I was In the Dam Norwegien Sniper teams gave us a run for our money at Benning in the sniper competitions.
Snipers from Norway and Sweden are some of the best In the world.
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Originally posted by Pongo
add perverted and you pretty much got it I think. But I reserve the right to add to the list in the future...
Perverts?! Screw you Canuck boy! Oh, and pass the binoculars!
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Originally posted by GScholz
Thanks Mr. Black
Say, did you use to be RC51? If my memory serves me he was a sniper too (and I've banged heads with him about as much as I have with you on this BBS ;)).
LOL yeppers
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Originally posted by mrblack
LOL yeppers
I should have known. What did they do, ban your account, or did you finally start taking your meds?
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Originally posted by Martlet
I should have known. What did they do, ban your account, or did you finally start taking your meds?
No I quite for awhile you little punk:aok