Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 2stony on December 01, 2003, 06:56:16 PM
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If I remember correctly, Air Warrior had a fix where you could only fly so many planes out of any particular base. Say for instance, each base would only have a 30 plane limit. When that number is reached, you'd have to up at another base.
This fix in AH could stop hordes to an extent. I mean you could up a bunch of planes from several different bases at once with one target in mind, but it would limit it somewhat if the "upping" base were isolated.
Any ideas?
:confused:
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Nice idea.AW also had it so you could bomb the spitfire factories,and make the Spitwad unavailable.Much to the chagrin of all the Spit tards,myself included.
Bomber dudes would like having their efforts bring real pain to the enemy,rather than worrying about the score.
Having only certain planes available at different bases,would also lend to the anguish.Heck, should use the rolling plane set like Warbirds,you talk about side switchers hehe.
I guess it all boils down to the fact that we need something new to keep up our interest.
Dobe
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Limit planes from fields...No
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Limiting the number of planes at fields was not an Air Warrior "feature." It was a workaround to network and server limitations of the day. What you're basically suggesting is that we throw out years of technological advancement and improved code in order to implement a feature that was never actually a feature at all.
No, thanks.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Sounds like a great idea to me!!!
It would spread out the fight and require planning for huge hordes. 30 planes per base should be enough. Or maybe 10 planes per hangar? That would give new meaning to killing hangars. Also small bases and large bases would really be small and large!!!
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why would anyone park their planes in a hangar in a war zone?
lazs
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If the Spitfire IX factory was bombed, would more people log off or switch sides? Or would they try a different plane, like the Spitfire V, N1K, or P-51D?
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Originally posted by lazs2
why would anyone park their planes in a hangar in a war zone?
lazs
When there are no revetments....or well, planes parked on the apron for that matter.
This is not such a hot idea.
Imagine setting up a mission where 30 people join, and only being able to launch 16 planes....
Too much restriction on the furball crowd.
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Originally posted by BlauK
Or maybe 10 planes per hangar? That would give new meaning to killing hangars. Also small bases and large bases would really be small and large!!!
Got my vote.
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Yeah, the most exciting form of this game would keep the other guy from fighting you at all!
Nirvana would be the ability to totally ground the enemy forces so one team could roll to glory completely unopposed and get those beautiful Perk Points, the Hawaiian vacation and their children with straight, white teeth!
I mean why would you ever want to engage the other guy in air combat at all in a game like this, let alone on anything like near even terms??????????????
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Hey, about this idea?
Every day the server randomly picks a country and that country is the "chosen one".
That country can have as many players as log on to it.
The other two countries are limited to a combined total of 50% of the current online strength of the "chosen country."
All that 24 hour period, the server denies access to any "excess" players in the two opposing countries.
Man, that would make for some good, relatively unopposed steamrolling, wouldn't it?
Wow! What a great idea!
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To add to Toads excellent but not fully developed idea.
Make it so that only people with kill to death scores of less then one to one can log in as one country but make them all go there for that day
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Sweeeeeeeeeeet Pongo!
All the K/D's less than 1 go to the "chosen country" and get to lemming-horde against the other two countries.
I think with THIS system, we can limit the other two opposing countries to maybe 25% of total players in the "chosen one".
It'd probably be a blast for the lucky 25% that got in............
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How is it that anyone can believe that stopping others from flying is a good thing?
If you don’t want to fight against other people they why bother paying a subscription? There are plenty of box sims that are prettier and more complete in terms of "war".
The same problem is happening over at wbs. I think it’s a mistake to try and turn an "air combat" game into some kind of silly "world war 2" re-enactment game. The gvs, the strat and the "war winning" is just silly.
Is it that some folks are so put off by being killed by another player that the only way they feel of value is to avoid the fight and "win" by stopping the other guy from flying all together?
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Originally posted by Batz
How is it that anyone can believe that stopping others from flying is a good thing?
Is it that some folks are so put off by being killed by another player that the only way they feel of value is to avoid the fight and "win" by stopping the other guy from flying all together?
Yup.
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The thread starter only asked for ideas and opinons on this idea. Why is it so hard to just give your ideas and opinions without adding sarcasm and flames? That only shows disrespect for your fellow human beings.
I personally dislike the idea of limiting the number of planes that can up from a given base. In AW if you got a team down to one base (and this did happen sometimes) then only 25 people from that team could take off to defend it, even if there were 60 or 70 online.
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How is it that anyone can believe that stopping others from flying is a good thing?
This idea wouldn't stop anyone from flying Batz.....at least until you got an enemy team down to just a couple of bases. Thats when people wouldnt be able to play because of base restrictions.
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I like the idea of type-specific aircraft factories. I'd be in heaven if it were possible to bomb the N1k and La7 factories into dust and ground the UFO horde.
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Porking fuel already has the same effect.
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Any of you serious whiners ever played chess and lost an officer? You probably have begun to scream: "I want my queen right back! You cannot prevent me from using all the playing pieces I want to use!!!! It is my game!!!"
If you lose something, you should try to fix it and cope with what you have left.. OR .. you should think ahead and try to protect your important assets.
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AH isn't chess, it's air combat game. If there is no air combat then what is the point?
Reset? "War Winning?" Who cares anything about that stupid ****?
Some folks just wanna fight. They dont care about field capture, resets or any of that. They don't want to spend 40 minutes looking for a fight. They don't want not to be able to fly the planes they like.
If they did then wbs would be packed and AW would still be making money.
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chocolate goodnessit ... the day that I sit in a queue waiting for my chance to lift off is the day that I cancel my account.
Batz has hit the nail on the head.
Why are so many myopic ... some of us don't give a rats *** if the town is down, the ack/troop/fuel factory is wiped out, the city destroyed, or the bloody war is "won". These things don't effect how we choose to play in AH.
We are here to fight ... we choose not to partake in the strateegery and from what I can see, HT nor HTC says that we MUST partake.
So anything that you want to limit or force upon me that will hamper how I choose to play this game ... well ... FORGETABOUTIT !!!
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why is it that the only "strat" ideas that the talentless can come up with involve restricting fighters? Is it that they know that no one will play with them unless forced to?
Why should the guys who fly with a mouse have any effect at all on anything?
why not strat ideas that only effect bombers and ground vehicles?
lazs
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Hey ... here we go ... lets apply this idea to ordinance ... only 30 bombs/rockets per field per hour.
This would then FORCE/LIMIT some people to actually think of fighting ... you know ... air-to-air combat ... what a novel idea.
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Originally posted by Heretik
I like the idea of type-specific aircraft factories. I'd be in heaven if it were possible to bomb the N1k and La7 factories into dust and ground the UFO horde.
Yeah ... those N1ks and La-7s are scarey. I auger at the first site of those planes cause I know its a lost cause. They eat my lunch every time I run into one.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Yeah ... those N1ks and La-7s are scarey. I auger at the first site of those planes cause I know its a lost cause. They eat my lunch every time I run into one.
Oh yeah, me too..and ponies, spits, dora's, big blues's...oooh and A20's just tear me up. oh, but thats a bomber huh?
And to think, some of you may actually think I'm joking. :p
It may be a bad idea, but theres something here that pulls at me...the thought of all the swarming N1K's patrolling the routes to the N1K factory. YOu could just about pick what kind of plane you wanted to scrap with by flying toward that factory.
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Complaining about being restricted. :lol Like any of these guys would up to defend an attacked base anyway.
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AS it stands now, isn't it possible to restrict the entire bomber set and make them useless?
I mean, If you detroy a base's ammo bunkers, there is no ordinance there at all, IE, no bombs, right?
So if this is correct, (and I am not 100% sure it is) Bombers have been restrictable (is that a word?) since day 1. Take out the Ordinance, and you've got no bombers.
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I'm a furballer and lately on the big far-flung fields I've been upping at capped fields.
It's about the only way to get lemmings to engage.
Yeah, you die but you can usually kill some first. Better than droning around chasing folks in early war planes hoping against hope they'll make a pass at you.
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Muck same thing with "defending" against field capture.
Want to save fields? Kill the barracks, attack troop "factorys".
The killing of fuel, IMO, is merely to ensure that the enemy can't actually fight you so you can have low/no risk "misshuns".
But what's the primary target of the steamroller types? Fuel. They aren't worried about bomber/jabo restriction. They aren't worried about field capture capability. They just want to ensure a lack of opposition.
IMO. YMMV.
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The best way in the world to stop a steamroller agression is like you said...
Take out the troop training center, kill the city that supplies it, and kill the front line barracks.
Why is it, no one bothers to do it? Not even the Mega-strat types.
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You people are funny.I think most of you just want to complain about something. I hear one guy talk about how it would suck to limit who can fly out of where and on another post complain about how there are too many people in one spot. LOSER!!!
I thought AH was a simulation as well as a game. The hordes have to be dealt with. Even the massive landings on D-Day were still but a fraction of the total Allied strength. On many occasion I have seen up to 50% of one countries active participants in one sector. Thats not simulating warfare.
This is not QuakeHigh, there needs to be very real rules and strategies that need to be inforced at the expense of the Whack-a-mole wannabes. Sorry if somethings dont trip your trigger, but hey this is free market, you don't like, go find better.
You want to be able to fly Spitfires, protect the Spitfire factory. If you want to just furball in your Spitfire, well you better hope some other guys are protecting your factory, but STFU if you lose it. You want camp spawnpoints for outrageous gv scores, fine. You better hope other players are protecting your Capitol so you don't get reset. (The previoys exapmles were used using ideas from other posts)
You can't please all the people all the time. All AH can do is make a great simulation and hope that those who like it stay and play/pay.
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so jb42... are you saying that good gameplay would be to have one factory that made spitfires and when that factory is dead you have no more spitfires?? maybe you are saying have 100 factories that each one represents one of all the planes and vehicles allowed in the game?
why not simply have factories that limit only LW planes?
who chooses? you?
lazs
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Why is it, no one bothers to do it? Not even the Mega-strat types.
Because they're far more interested in avoiding a fight on anywhere near equal terms so they just steamroll and pork fuel?
Just a guess.
42,
Yeah, some people are funny.
For example there are some folks that think everyone cares about resets. There's folks who think that everyone wants "strategies" and "very real rules".
Then there's other folks who realize not everyone seeks the same experience even though they're all in the same arena.
So, in the end, it does come down to limiting. Some folks want to limit how other folks play. Some don't.
Best choice of all is maps/gameplay that allow everyone to pursue their goals simultaneously.
Or do you prefer the "my way or the highway" approace of "hey this is free market, you don't like, go find better."?
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Actually I didn't see my endorsement on any of the ideas. I'm simply throwing out other ideas from other posts to show how the greedy and selfish would suffer for their dispostion.
However since you brought it up, If there were to be 190 and 109 factories you better believe I would have guys dedicated to making sure the dont get hit. All those delicious kills of fat Jabos and/or slicing and dicing bomber formations, TASTEY!!!!
Now for what factories there would be, would anyone care if the P40, Ju87 or Ki-61 factory got bombed. I doubt it. Factories would probably revolve around the planes that have the biggest impacts ie: Dora, P51D, P47D-30, N1K, Spit Mk9, and yes the La7. Not saying those are to be written in stone, but you get the idea.
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I trudged my way through some of this drivel, and found some of the most miopic arguing points. I think the thread starters premiss was to aliviate the steamroll effect.
(paraphrase) "Im a furballer. I just want to fight. Screw you for wanting to limit my choices"
Helleeo? Choices are limited for those who log on a certian peak times to find the most populace country has a 70-150 pilot advantage. There are times where it is nearly impossible to find any fight at any alt other than being ganged. Sure you could theoretically strat out the front line fields, not that you would ever get within visual range of it.
Yes it would be such a shame if the guys with the huge numbers advantage were inconvienced by having to up at a different field. (boo, hiss).
At face value, I dont think its a terrible suggestion, though some points that were brought up would have to be addressed. I have always liked the plane factory idea. If it were implemented to rotate which plane type would be affected, no doubt people would still cry .
However none of this addresses the root of the problem, which is the lack of responsible squads in the game. Specifically the ones that are more than happy to feel they are great and effective because they fly on the coutry with the most numbers, and can kick bellybutton all the time.
Hats off to the squads that do switch countries to balance the numbers, and make game play better for everyone.
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Limiting # of planes in AW (as said before) was nothing more than a workaround for limited bandwidth and limited CPU capacity of the players. It has NO OVERT BENIFIT and several huge disadvantages, not the least of which is making missions almost impossible.
Imagine if you will....there are 145 Bish online...only 10 bish bases left...and only 3 have more than 25% fuel....we limit it to 25 per base and we now have 70 bish who are F***ED......wait a minute...I like this idea more now. I can hear the whines now:rolleyes:
Its at threads like these that I thank God that Dale has more experience and wisdom than most posters here:aok
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The last thing this game needs is more tools to pork fields...which is basically what this is, just through a hard cap.
Definitely not a good move imo. If 500 people want to launch from two opposing fields and get it on, let em. Hell, this game needs MORE of that not less!
The bigger the furball, the better :)
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vortex... are you suggesting that we let people have fun without impacting dozens of other players? Are you suggesting.... choice? Let people do what they want so long as they don't have a lopsided effect on the other players?
well... people would just fight each other then..
lazs
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I know, a bit of a weak moment on my part lazs...talking crazy and all I is!
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Or....
People could try not flying in the sector with the biggest green bar in it.
Just a thought.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Limiting the number of planes at fields was not an Air Warrior "feature." It was a workaround to network and server limitations of the day. What you're basically suggesting is that we throw out years of technological advancement and improved code in order to implement a feature that was never actually a feature at all.
No, thanks.
-- Todd/Leviathn
It was used to spread out the players it's true. And this is what it would be used for in AH also, but for a different reason. To prevent some of the huge horde spawns to do battle with tool sheds and capture territory without confrontation. That, after all, is the purpose of this thread. It's just an idea... there are others. Perhaps one day one of us will think of a good one. But this won't happen if you stomp on them.
grizzly
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Originally posted by Dobe
Nice idea.AW also had it so you could bomb the spitfire factories,and make the Spitwad unavailable.Much to the chagrin of all the Spit tards,myself included.
Bomber dudes would like having their efforts bring real pain to the enemy,rather than worrying about the score.
Having only certain planes available at different bases,would also lend to the anguish.Heck, should use the rolling plane set like Warbirds,you talk about side switchers hehe.
I guess it all boils down to the fact that we need something new to keep up our interest.
Dobe
I think you need to be more attentive in the arena. Spitfires got their reputation as weenie planes in RR AW where they were rediculously affecive and easy to fly compared to the other iron. In AH they are severly limited in usefullness. You might notice that the dweeb planes of choice have now become the P51 and LaLa.
grizzly
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I believe the real source of confusion is that there's a remaining cadre of hard-headed obstinate people here who still think this should be an air combat game.
It isn't. Get over it.
Remember back when they altered the game description on the Home page?
A momentous day in history that went largely unremarked.
"Those were the days, my friends, we thought they'd never end....."
Well, they ended.
Root about in the garbage; there's still some tasty tidbits to be found now and then.
But the future of this game is in the WW2OL mode, I'm thinking. The AH2 update: you see big improvements in the air environment or do you see that the ground features are much more hospitable for foot soldiers and vehicles?
Ever wonder if anyone does a cost/benefit analysis of catering to several thousand hard core aviation afficianados versus catering to hundreds of thousands of FPS fans?
Ponder that a while. ;)
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Griz,
Never flew RR in AW.I try not to pay too much attention in the main arena,as it tends to piss me off.I just fly around trying to have a nice time,but that has been extremely hard to do lately.
The next Spit pilot that kills me,I'll make sure to tell him his ride isn't useful in the MA.I fly every plane,and try not to categorize them.In the USMC,we had a saying,if they're *****in,they're happy.We sure got a lot of happy campers around here!
Dobe
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Originally posted by SlapShot
chocolate goodnessit ... the day that I sit in a queue waiting for my chance to lift off is the day that I cancel my account.
Batz has hit the nail on the head.
Why are so many myopic ... some of us don't give a rats *** if the town is down, the ack/troop/fuel factory is wiped out, the city destroyed, or the bloody war is "won". These things don't effect how we choose to play in AH.
We are here to fight ... we choose not to partake in the strateegery and from what I can see, HT nor HTC says that we MUST partake.
So anything that you want to limit or force upon me that will hamper how I choose to play this game ... well ... FORGETABOUTIT !!!
The way things are right now game play is encouraged to consist of massive force used to destroy land targets and capture territory while evading confrontation. This is as valid as furballing, but it adversely affects the game play of others, like you, when the hordes decend upon your game choice or when your available bases are reduced to a few. By discouraging the hordes and providing a less intrusive strat objective both types of players can be accommodated.
grizzly
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Originally posted by Dobe
Griz,
Never flew RR in AW.I try not to pay too much attention in the main arena,as it tends to piss me off.I just fly around trying to have a nice time,but that has been extremely hard to do lately.
The next Spit pilot that kills me,I'll make sure to tell him his ride isn't useful in the MA.I fly every plane,and try not to categorize them.In the USMC,we had a saying,if they're *****in,they're happy.We sure got a lot of happy campers around here!
Dobe
Generally speaking, if you're in a plane like the P51 and get wacked by a Spit you've done something wrong (HOs don't count).
BTW, a huge thank you for your service in the marines... I mean that more seriously than anything said about this game.
grizzly
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Thanks Griz for nice comment.Glad to have served,and your right one shouldn't take anything too serious on the BB.
Dobe
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dont think good idea to limit them just my opinion . would have no kills than :)
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Food for Thought...
What if a factory produced TBMs??? How many people would quit AH??
Nobody?
As you know its not availble at all presently and I havent seen much screaming.
For the Factory Idea, Down time would be the big issue I think, not really the A/C. (thou a TMB factory probably wouldnt even get bothered with)
Lets say its LA7s.. and Its down for 5mins. Said factory is located way back in a corner. It probably wouldnt upset folks that much. Yes some a little.
The problem then is people would then be calling for it to be down for 10mins, then 20, then a hour.. Seems like it would be very easy for it to get out of balance.
Your die Hard furball folks, I would say, are taking the hard line because any strat feature tends to get swayed to a point that things get totaly out of wack and too restrictive. Our current fuel situation is a the best example of that.
As for the TMBs not being availble right now, I figure moving the feilds closer together would fix that ;)
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fields closer together fixes everything.
lazs
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im all for la7 / n1k factories
and against limiting the # of planes per field.
sometimes i feel like bomber runs, a plane specific factory would be much more worthwhile then porking a random factory or hq
- Oiler45
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To stop the hoardes - and by this I assume you mean gangbanging - would be pretty easy. Apply the same balancing priniciples to scoring as is applied to perks. This would have much broader and far reaching impact on side balancing.
- a stuka killing a 163 would generate more points score than the 163 killing the stuka
- A P51 on the outnumbered side would generate more points for killing a P51 on the number advantaged side.
Do something like this and you will have a very strong incentive for players not to gang up and even gladly go to the outnumbered side. It is also the "Carrot not stick" approach HTC likes. This would harm no one, doesn't fool with anyone's flying style plane choice or the price of beer.
(Heck, score might even take on meaning when it reflects the difficulty of the task - i.e. the early war pilot fighting tougher odds *should* have more points)
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ok... lets have the factories but not country specific... They will belong to the arms dealer and.... if the peee 51 factory is bombed then NO country gets peee 51's.... same for la 7 or spit or nik or p40...
If you have country specific factories then the country with the most numbers will simply have the most (probly even more) numbers and..... all the dweeb planes. What a fun arena that would be eh?
lazs