Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: simshell on December 01, 2003, 11:07:12 PM
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iv herd that in a old game iv never played called air warrior it had a spitfire factory that if bombed to such a point that no one could fly spitfires
i was thinking it would be great for aces high to have aircraft factorys say you would have a factory for the most used planes?
this would make bombers useful to!
i would like to see what you all think of such a thing
but of course the spit fans well be whine-ing:lol
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It's been suggested before. Traditionally, furballers will march into the thread and call the poster stupid and selfish because bombers would then be able to have an affect on their gameplay.
Within a few posts, a couple of bomber types will come in and say that, well, yeah, they'd like to affect gameplay. Isn't that essentially what happens when you shoot someone down?
Then Lazs2 will wander in and the furballers will rally behind him as he carefully outlines why this is dumb. The bomber types, realizing that lots of the fighters are busy arguing, will leave the BBS and go bomb stuff in the game.
After a while, the fighter types will quiet down, realizing that nobody is listening, and slowly head back to the game. A week later, someone will inadvertently bump the post by responding to some specific comment someone made, and the whole thing starts over again. Within a couple cycles, the thread dies until someone posts a new message asking about it again.
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A true furballer doesn't give a hoot what's available as long as there is SOME fighter to fly and he certainly doesn't give a hoot what you bring to the fight as long as you come to actually FIGHT.
IMO.
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Being able to remove a plane from an arena by bombing a factory is simply a bad idea.
MiniD
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That is where you are wrong MiniD.
It would be fantastic if killing a factory would temporarily remove certain planes from the set.
I am thinking B-17's, Lancs, B-26's, etc. That would be truly funny. Buff's ruining the game for other buffs.
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Yah, especially if "resupply" worked like it does for fuel.
THAT would be funny.
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i played airworror for 6 years and the buff did have an inpacked on game the spit fac run wear fun and the true furballers still had fun with out the spits i think it was the spit 5 that you lost for 30 min and after flying AH for 2 years i can say Air worror was more fun and a better game
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And so it begins again...
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I'd love to see HTC take a chance on an experiment like this. But we all know they wont. Variety is good. it's time to spice up the MA.
Chariboys 1st post just wrote the book on the bbs.
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Originally posted by yb11
i played airworror for 6 years and the buff did have an inpacked on game the spit fac run wear fun and the true furballers still had fun with out the spits i think it was the spit 5 that you lost for 30 min and after flying AH for 2 years i can say Air worror was more fun and a better game
Some of the best fights in AW4W and later on in AW3/MV where from flying escorts on raids deep into enemy territory to hit their strat targets or defending against those raids. Since strat had much more of an impact it was necessary to defend those targets and the end result were some classic dogfights.
ack-ack
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I flew in both FR and RR in AW. In FR, I would fly a B17, taking off from a rear base and gaining enough altitude to be at at least 20K as I crossed into enemy territory, rising to around 30K as I arrived at the Bz Spit factory way up north. Aircraft Factory Destroyed! Of course, I would only attempt this with a good, reliable gunner, and most of the time this was one of the Sky Knights, AirRat..... he was a mean gunner! :D In RR, I was usually a gunner instead and often went with someone (oneof Hell Gods or Black Sheep Bombers before that) flying all the way to a Spit factory on the deck..... just as much fun, and with an added duty of having to strafe the acks before the pilot made his actual bomb run.
I do like going for the factory targets here sometimes, and had a run to an enemy City just a few nights ago in Trinity. :)
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Originally posted by Furious
That is where you are wrong MiniD.
It would be fantastic if killing a factory would temporarily remove certain planes from the set.
I am thinking B-17's, Lancs, B-26's, etc. That would be truly funny. Buff's ruining the game for other buffs.
I think you are on to something!
fighters want to fight fighters, gv's want to fight other gv's and bombers should fight other bombers (and some fighters nuisance).
If you have factories for B17's B26's and lancs we'll see bombers from one country trying to kill bombers from another by strat-bombing...
those factories have to be large and with lots of structurs so you could bring them down only with carpet bombing or a REALLY large horde of jabos. then you place them deep in the coutry, near the HQ.
interesting ...
Bozon
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Take the citys off the map out of the resupply chain. That would make the factorys a more important target to hit and defend.
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Ya... I'm wrong.
It would be great if you had a country down to 2 bases and 2 available planes because people were just milkrunning aircraft factories. Yes... that would be awesome.
Sheesh... can't even believe this is still brought up.
MiniD
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poor, sad little milkrunners crying for attention...
lazs
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This idea might be a great way to see early war aircraft in the MA. Factories for late war aircraft could be destroyed.
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It'd probably make the resets happen faster though Mini. And what strategy it would add, eh?
Can you see the vast armadas of bombers heading to the Spit factory instead of the vast herd of jabos heading to the small field like we have now?
And think of all those reset perk points getting spread around!
I simply swoon at the thought.
Well, maybe not swoon.
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yep... swoon is probly too strong a word.
lazs
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Instead of simply tossing the idea like so many are fond of doing, why not really consider it and refine it.
My thought would be to have 5 factories per country.
When one is hit and destroyed a RANDOM VEHICLE is taken out of the set until X time expires, or is resupplied, etc.
This vehicle could be anything from a PT boat to an OSTI to a B-17 to a P-51.
It would spur more 8th Airforce Style raids which will require escort, and will hopefully spawn interesting dogfights along the way.
Take it or leave it.
No matter what, from my point of view, AH MA needs something fresh.
(See other thread about being burned out)
Excellent post, Chair. Let the flame war begin.
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This is the second (current) post concerning changes to AH to make it more AW like. This isn't AW! Less game more war I say!
Bomber targets won't make much difference anyway. By the time the survivors (if there were any) made it home the factory would be resupplied and the effect nullified.
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Originally posted by MetaTron
This is the second (current) post concerning changes to AH to make it more AW like. This isn't AW! Less game more war I say!
Bomber targets won't make much difference anyway. By the time the survivors (if there were any) made it home the factory would be resupplied and the effect nullified.
Kinda like the current "Strat" system..
[Bill Murray Mode on]
IT JUST DOES'NT MATTER
IT JUST DOES'NT MATTER
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Originally posted by Vipermann
This idea might be a great way to see early war aircraft in the MA. Factories for late war aircraft could be destroyed.
YES! THAT'S IT! Because when you're rolling over a country, it's important that they only have mid-early war planes available to defend themselves.
Plane factories cater too much to the "can't I just destroy one building and drastically impact the game?" crowd. It's not even about one base... it's about impacting one whole country.
Sorry, the game just doesn't need that kind of instant gratuity system.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
YES! THAT'S IT! Because when you're rolling over a country, it's important that they only have mid-early war planes available to defend themselves.
MiniD
Not saying your wrong here but just remember that it works both ways, if you take out the attacking countries factories perhaps their attack will stall.
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Bomb the Spitfire IX factory and make the Spitfire XIV free. :D
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Originally posted by Vipermann
Not saying your wrong here but just remember that it works both ways, if you take out the attacking countries factories perhaps their attack will stall.
Yah... that's how it COULD work. Now... think about how it WOULD work.
It's the problem with ideas like this. Everyone get's all starry eyed and doesn't take the time to look at the real implications.
MiniD
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I think Aircraft factories is a good idea. On the large maps their could be several, each building a different aircraft. I'm not a big *strat guy* but it would make the game more interesting for those who are. A/C factories would give the strat guys deep targets other than just HQ.
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This isn’t a troll, I swear!
I like the idea of encouraging a wider variety of planes in the arena and HTC implemented the perk system to help accomplish this. I also like the idea of giving players a degree of control over the game-play based on their own performance. I liked the spit factory idea in AW, even though I was a spit dweeb for the longest time. It actually got me into flying other planes, which ultimately added to my enjoyment.
Maybe in the MA we can experiment with some way to use the perk system and the strat system together.
Now this is just off the cuff –
What if we did have the 5 aircraft factories (as suggested above) for the Big 5 planes (I don’t suppose I have to list them) and, while the factory is down you can fly any plane you like - you simply won’t accumulate perk points if you fly a plane that is supposedly “disabled”.
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I tend to be of the belief that most people in the MA are not that Perk conscious to begin with.
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I prefer the strat game. I like the idea that what I'm doing is making a difference. I know that some of the furballers are rolling their eyes right now, but silly or not, it's fun for me to see my side win. That said, lately I just look for dogfights because the strat game in AH is a little... lacking. It's not that I want any "instant gratification," but I would like something more than what we've got now.
The only real strat decisions to be made right now are like the ones the Knights needed to make last night: should we take A33 next instead of A42? A42 extends our front into the rookies mainland, while A33 would have solidified our control of our homeland. Whee... People wonder why I just look for CVs off the coast, now.
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Something you'd hear a lot from me, if this happened...
"In on the La-7 factory" :p
Reminds me of the guys who bombed the Yugo factory...former Yugo owners, reportedly. Wow. Fantastic revenge, if true
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I don't see the difference between the strat we have now and the same system WITH a spit factory (or whatever...). If you bomb strat targets now, you affect the gameplay so what's the big deal? It doesn't have to be easy to do, it should take a major coordinated effort to take out an aircraft factory (and it does work both ways when your side is losing). We have such a large choice of planes in AH that it should work out even better than it did in AW. It would end up being more of a punitive goal than a real strategic goal..."U B*stards! I bombed your N1K2 factory!"
The plane could still be available but in limited numbers and hence cost a predetermined perk value if the factory is only partialy destroyed.
Hail, put up a factory for everything and install lots of flak and AA at each one. You want it dead? Pay the price. If the bad guys are killin your spit factory instead of base captures, retake your ground while they're busy. Sounds like it would work to me.
Hey, most of you know I'm a furballer & cherry picker but this idea would get me "Strattin'"
It's all a matter of where you want to draw the line on affecting gameplay. If your against an aircraft factory you might as well be for NO strat and no capture - just up and start furballing. Neither is bad, just trying to make a point here...
Magoo
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That's a nice idea, Magoo.
Worth repeating:
A an aircraft factory is damaged the perk cost to fly the plane is supplies rises until it is either cost prohibitive, or the plane is completely unavailable.
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This sounds like a great idea ... for ...
[size=8]AH II : TOD[/size]
I really hope the HT types his fingers bloody after the holiday season so that AH II can be introduced to prime time and TOD will follow shortly there after.
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so each country would have like 50-100 different factories? one for each aircraft, fluff and vehicle?
lazs
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I don't think so. I would say 5 factories..maybe 10 at most.
Have it so the attackers do not know what the factory produces until it is partially destroyed.
I would say have it be random so we don't have one group of players constantly being denied their favorite ride.
So the same factory on Monday may build M-3's and on tuesday, by random selection, it produces Mustangs.
Geez, imagine what would happen if a country lost it's Goon and M3 Factories for 24 hours....
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Alright Lazs2, so I got a little carried away
I'll settle for 5-10 initially. But eventually I figure we gots to have a ball bearing factory too;)
Magoo
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I think what the debate comes down to is that some folks want a recreation of WWII with an emphasis on the air war, while other folks simply want an Air Combat game using WWII aircraft.
Neither side is right or wrong. They just want different things, and they both want AH to fulfill their desires.
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ok... say it's random... why should anyone know what got destroyed? The country would know because that would be unavailable.
course.... none of this ever happened in real life....
I don't like the idea at all.... this punish by slow death thing sucks.... AH is a game of.. whatever country has the numbers can pretty much do as they want... giving said country even more advantages is even more luducrus than what we have now...
see my idea for strat for something workable.
lazs
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Originally posted by muckmaw
I think what the debate comes down to is that some folks want a recreation of WWII with an emphasis on the air war, while other folks simply want an Air Combat game using WWII aircraft.
Neither side is right or wrong. They just want different things, and they both want AH to fulfill their desires.
Absolutely right Muck ... and I believe that HT is marching to that goal with ...
AH II :Classic and AH II : Tour of Duty
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Absolutely right Muck ... and I believe that HT is marching to that goal with ...
AH II :Classic and AH II : Tour of Duty
I don't know if AHII TOD is going to fit the bill, but then again, how much do we really know about it?
It could be nirvana, or it could be the death knell for many AH players.
I hear alot of "I'm waiting until AH2 comes out" grumblings.
Bottom line, the people who like the game as it is now will most likely be even happier when TOD comes out.
The people who are pining for something more than dogfighting with either move to the TOD arena, or cancel their subscriptions all together.
No matter what, nothing we say or do here is going to be implimented as HTC is devoting 100% of their energy into AHII.
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I was thinking AH TOD was going to be for the realism nazis and strateegery gurus.
Now, given the gameplay in the MA, I'm thinking it may be the ONLY place to find a decent fight in a reasonable amount of time.
It could go either way; hard to tell which faction it will appeal to the most at this point.
So, I'm waiting for AH2 TOD. ;)
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My impression of TOD is that people looking for instant gratification are going to be somewhat disappointed... that is if HTC models strat realistically.
This idea has nothing to do with realism. It is a gamey feature at best. It's the equivelant to enabling fuel to be reduced across a country simply by hitting the fuel factory.
MiniD
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Well, if TOD is going to feature automatic missions that actually have goals/victory conditions for each side, then I'd expect some hot fighting to occur.
This _may_ appeal to me more than what I currently see in the MA.
Time will tell.
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Latter AW3 maps always had bugs around the spit factory thing.....mostly it was disabled............ I always thought it was a pity it was only spits...............
There is one significant difference re AW strat and AH strat.
In AW you could directly capture strat facilities and they would produce for your side. In AH this only happens when you capture a zone master field. Hence in AH strat is still aquired only by attacking air bases and vehicle bases.
IE in AH you capture fields to gain strat advantage. In AW you captured strat to help capture fields.
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there would be TWO factories: 1--takes out all heavy bombers...SECOND: ALL dweeb (LA7, niki, spit9) planes--make em as deep as HQ ....CANT believe there arent folks out there who dont like knockin out dweeb planes;
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I want a tittie-bar in the game...if you bomb it then tittie-dancers fall from the sky
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would anyone happen to have a screenshot of a spitfire factory in AW?
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Aircraft factory : no , no way , never, bad idea , ber berkberkberk
I'm enought pissed by the lack of fuel I don't want to be pissed by the lack of my favorite plane.
Originally posted by B17Skull12
would anyone happen to have a screenshot of a spitfire factory in AW?
A ping cube ?
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Make it an La-7 factory, not Spits. If you're going to nuke something, it should be the ultimate dweeb ride. :)
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OK fellas, just because the aircraft factory (let's say Spit9) is destroyed doesn't mean you can't fly a Spit9.
Just not in that arena.
Alternatively, if you already have a Spit9 don't replane or just hope someone else left their Spit9 so you can take it. It was the factory that was destroyed not the aircraft on the ground.
If you just want to dogfight then go to the dueling arena. The fact that in the "Melee" arena there are Strat targets makes it a strat arena and it's only a small step to consider putting in Aircraft factories (or whatever factories).
On a side note, I think TOD is going to be more of a character development type game than a strat game where you can win the war. Of course I could be wrong here.
Bottom line, everyone who disagrees with me is obviously wrong:D
Magoo