Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hristo on December 03, 2003, 12:21:43 AM
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just wonderin'
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Fascist! Imperilist! No war for Chechen goatcheese! Putin is Hitler!
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bahhhh
and Russia is very Evil..I think they all want to take over USA!!!
RED DAWN!!!!!!
Love
BiGB
xoxo
Did Hitler celebrate x-mas?
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Originally posted by Hristo
just wonderin'
Check with the Russian Consilate
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Originally posted by mrblack
Check with the Russian Consilate
Consulate
But that's the right place to go.
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
bahhhh
and Russia is very Evil..I think they all want to take over USA!!!
RED DAWN!!!!!!
Love
BiGB
xoxo
Did Hitler celebrate x-mas?
havnt you ever watched south park....of course he celebrates christmas lol
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Consulate
But that's the right place to go.
tamatoe Tomatoe LOL Thx.:D
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Originally posted by mrblack
tamatoe Tomatoe LOL Thx.:D
tomato ;)
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Heck we just call em maters and taters.:eek:
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What is this, the Dan Quale club?
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wouldn't that be tatter ?
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So, what would you send them ?
I just cannot decide between a copy of LOMAC, bottle of vodka or Kur'an. How about Forgotten Battles ?
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WOLVERIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINES!!!
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Originally posted by Hristo
So, what would you send them ?
I just cannot decide between a copy of LOMAC, bottle of vodka or Kur'an. How about Forgotten Battles ?
American soldiers in Iraq apparetly like getting baby wipes... :eek:
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Originally posted by Hristo
So, what would you send them ?
I just cannot decide between a copy of LOMAC, bottle of vodka or Kur'an. How about Forgotten Battles ?
Send 'em some cheese doodles and a bottle of cheap vodka.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
American soldiers in Iraq apparetly like getting baby wipes... :eek:
Use a porta-crapper for 6 months and you will understand why.
We actually didn't care too much for the 'Baby Wipe' brand name, too foo foo smelling.
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Originally posted by wklink
Use a porta-crapper for 6 months and you will understand why.
We actually didn't care too much for the 'Baby Wipe' brand name, too foo foo smelling.
Ahh, thanks for clarifying. I heard the baby wipes were popular gifts to troops but I never knew why.
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When you can only get a shower every 2 weeks or so, you'll clean the filth off with anything handy. We used to use the training version of the NBC Decon pack during Desert Storm. It's basically a big alcohol wipe, works great for getting the crust off the back of your neck.
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I'll see that it gets to them if you wanna send it through me. They prefer cash, large denominations.
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Raubvogel: When you can only get a shower every 2 weeks or so...
That's your problem - you do not allow enough time for your body to adjust. In about 6 weeks you'd stop feeling filthy.
Hristo,
Russians are not such sissies as american soldiers - they can live without bath for months if not years.
I would urge you not to send them wipes but if you do - make sure they are soaked with ethyl alcohol, not the other kinds. :D
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
Russians are not such sissies as american soldiers - they can live without bath for months if not years.
And I bet they do. ;)
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Originally posted by miko2d
[b
Russians are not such sissies as american soldiers - they can live without bath for months if not years.
Well, it's nice to maintain the ability to sneak in on an enemy when he's either upwind or downwind.
;)
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Why remain filthy if you don't have to? Sounds like poor hygiene choices, not toughness.
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Raubvogel: Why remain filthy if you don't have to? Sounds like poor hygiene choices, not toughness.
In (real) military you get dirty five minutes after the shower. On the second day you start to itch unbearably and in a week you develop skin boils - for about six weeks, after which it goes away. Much like you stop noticing moskito bites or stop getting runs after drinking from a ditch.
Washing every 2 weeks just ensures you are itching all the time and have boils all the time.
Oh, yea - it gets easier after six weeks only for those sturdy fellows that did not die or got de-comissioned with utterly ruined health. But who needs weaklings in the army anyway? :)
miko
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Typical story of discussing Army life with Americans. Both Russian and American guys served in the Army. Russian says that they didn't get any extra food, only one portion for everyone. American is amazed by the cruelty of Russian army system: "And if I want another glass of ORANGE JUICE!?"
:rofl
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
WOLVERIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINES!!!
ROFL!
Its was five to one... I got four of them...
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Originally posted by miko2d
Raubvogel: Why remain filthy if you don't have to? Sounds like poor hygiene choices, not toughness.
In (real) military you get dirty five minutes after the shower. On the second day you start to itch unbearably and in a week you develop skin boils - for about six weeks, after which it goes away.
Washing every 2 weeks just ensures you are itching all the time and have boils all the time.
miko
You develop skin boils after a week?! Must be something in your genetic code, because we went as long as a month without a shower and I never heard anyone complain of skin boils.
Being forced to endure food and hygiene hardship because of poor logistic support has nothing to do toughness. But if that makes you feel better, oh well. We don't do it because we don't have to. You did it because you had no choice. Do you really think that makes those troops any "tougher?" To me it just means they were forced to endure unnecessary morale-lowering conditions. Just my 2 cents.
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WOLVERINES
(http://web.prtc.net/~mjrr/911.gif)
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Raubvogel: You develop skin boils after a week?! Must be something in your genetic code, because we went as long as a month without a shower and I never heard anyone complain of skin boils.
Fortunately, I personally did not. Being overactive child I had an inordinate amount of scraps and cuts compounded by dirt. I was also into mountain-climbing and hiking which is the closest civilian thing to the army life. Or maybe due to my genetic code.
But most of my comrades did devellop bad sores and boils - especially in the first months of cervice.
...we went as long as a month without a shower and I never heard anyone complain of skin boils.
Which is understandable. The tendency to develop skin boils, infections and other immune problems is triggered by change in habits, environment and stress but it is greatly determined by nutrition. The better-fed a recruit was before service, the worse he tended to suffer in the first few months.
Good food is greatly preferable to clean living.
Being forced to endure food and hygiene hardship because of poor logistic support has nothing to do toughness.
Being forced to endure hardship certainly has nothing to do with toughness.
Being able to survive being forced to endure hardship has everything to do with toughness.
Do you really think that makes those troops any "tougher?"
Mostly it just insures that those troops are tougher - though considerable amount of toughening does happen to those capable to survive the initial hardship.
Imagine the whole bunch of young guys being thrown into a forest in sub-zero weather in wet clothes, without time or chance to sleep for days and with scarce and inferior food. How many of the regular US army grunts - not special forces - would not fall appart? Precious few. Among soviet grunts with more than 6 months of service it was nothing to write home about.
To me it just means they were forced to endure unnecessary morale-lowering conditions. Just my 2 cents.
Unnecessary? That depends. If you want a guy to be ready to give his life for something he does not understand and be a vicious killer as well, you are much better making his life hell than plying him with orange juice and facials.
We are talking about the draft army here, remember - something the US may yet experience. There was much less "moral decay" and disciplinary incidents among troops having the easy life than among those living in hellish conditions.
They were definitely of much better use in Afghanistan.
The technological superiority is great but when you need to put some troops with rifles on the ground, there may be not enough special forces guys to go around and the regular undertrained and pampered army grunts may be worth less than people were led to expect.
miko
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
Being forced to endure food and hygiene hardship because of poor logistic support has nothing to do toughness. But if that makes you feel better, oh well. We don't do it because we don't have to. You did it because you had no choice. Do you really think that makes those troops any "tougher?" To me it just means they were forced to endure unnecessary morale-lowering conditions. Just my 2 cents.
Well put,
I think they also call that leadership.
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ygsmilo: Well put,
I think they also call that leadership.
No. What you and Rab are saying is called meaningless BS propaganda. We had plenty of that too, so I have no problem recognising it.
It does not change a reality however. The SF select the few people with specific personality types - warriors and killers who are very healthy. Those do not need or care for propaganda.
The regular sissies that are drafter or recruites are worth nothing and no amount of propaganda would change that. You can make many of them into killers by radically changing their characters - by making them survive hell, which not all would be able to endure. Propaganda is worthless here though all successes can be - and are - attributed to it.
miko
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Well geez we watched Rambo take out an entire russian division
with a sharp knife and Bow and arrow.. Rambo didn't have any boils that you could see!
:)
IKON
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Oh, so providing proper care to your soldiers is now "meaningless BS propaganda?" That's gold, pure gold.
Every US Army leader is taught from the very beginning of their career that there are a few things that you should do your absolute best to provide to troops....mail, decent and adequate food, and a shower every now and then. You can call it "meaningless BS propaganda", we call it kindergarten-level leadership.
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It's a question of the number of people you have to put in the field.
If you enjoy superiority in numbers or technology then you should be able to provide your troops with some of those nessesities. However, if you are short of front line troops, having 7 REMF serving him hot food, shower and mail, isn't the brightest of the ideas. All the mail and food in the world won't save him if he gets overran, no matter what his morale is.
that being said, since WWII US always fought wars in settings where proper logistics could be arranged. This can be attributed to two things: american ingeniuity for organizaional logistics and huge funds.
unforntunatelly not ever army in the world has enough people, money or backing to do the same.
I also don't see how this relates to leadership in any way. Is this "leadership by providing confort" concept ?
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Originally posted by miko2d
ygsmilo: Well put,
I think they also call that leadership.
No. What you and Rab are saying is called meaningless BS propaganda. We had plenty of that too, so I have no problem recognising it.
It does not change a reality however. The SF select the few people with specific personality types - warriors and killers who are very healthy. Those do not need or care for propaganda.
miko
As ususal you are relying on your experience in the worlds biggest horde (the Red Army) and trying to tell the rest of us how it is. Russian leadership usually means lousy training and a liter of vodka, do they still have the NKVD troops to "help" the morale?
Raub is a vet and he knows - Leadership makes an army.
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Originally posted by ygsmilo
As ususal you are relying on your experience in the worlds biggest horde (the Red Army) and trying to tell the rest of us how it is. Russian leadership usually means lousy training and a liter of vodka, do they still have the NKVD troops to "help" the morale?
Raub is a vet and he knows - Leadership makes an army.
Oh yes... walking example of Hollywood education...
:rofl
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Originally posted by Hristo
just wonderin'
Just send it to their home address. They don't spend much time in Chechnya. The Chechs don't allow it.
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Russians are not such sissies as american soldiers - they can live without bath for months if not years.
Wow, they would smell just like the women! :rofl
dago
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Originally posted by fd ski
Oh yes... walking example of Hollywood education...
:rofl
Na fd,
just a student of history.
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Originally posted by ygsmilo
Na fd,
just a student of history.
hollywood propaganda history? ;-)
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Originally posted by fd ski
Oh yes... walking example of Hollywood education...
:rofl
Better than communist education. :)
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Originally posted by ramzey
hollywood propaganda history? ;-)
Don't go Boroda on me :D
He still won't admit that good comrade Joe starved out the Ukrainians.
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Originally posted by ygsmilo
Na fd,
just a student of history.
Please inform me when you'll graduate, so I'll stop wasting time on American "historical" literature.
You wrote:
As ususal you are relying on your experience in the worlds biggest horde (the Red Army) and trying to tell the rest of us how it is. Russian leadership usually means lousy training and a liter of vodka, do they still have the NKVD troops to "help" the morale?
JFYI: that "biggest horde" was the decisive force that have defeated nazis. And also, as a "student of history" you should know that it wasn't called "Red Army" since 1943.
Lousy training and a liter of vodka? Is this what they teach you in your "history" class? During the War vodka rations were 100g daily in infantry. Lousy training is to blame for victories in Stalingrad and Kursk. NKVD never acted like they were shown in "enemy at the gates" movie, they were catching deserters and dieing when used as a "last resort" to stop nazis.
Beautiful example of propaganda brainwashing. Illiterate always deadly-drunk Russians wearing fur-hats with red stars, on their "shaggy mounts" and with their pet polar bears. You must have been learning in a very good and expensive university.
This stupidity wasn't enough, so later you wrote:
He still won't admit that good comrade Joe starved out the Ukrainians.
Very clever. Especially if you don't know that I am half-Ukrainian. And that my Grand-Uncle died of typhus in 1933. As a student he was sent to the country and got infected. The rest of my family survived because Grandfather was a railway employee.
JFYI: Russian Empire suffered from hunger every 5-7 years. Bolsheviks stopped it, but the last starvation happened here in 1947. 14 years after that famous hunger in the Ukraine. Did they tell this to you on your "history" classes? Also I want to know what they said about why Stalin "starved" the Ukrainians. Probably because he was evil, bad and a horrible communist dictator? Any other reasons?
To Miko:
Как меня заебли эти теоретики военной подготовки, которые отказываются воевать если им не привезли мороженного...
Насчёт голода 33го года: брат моей бабушки умер от тифа, заразился в продотряде куда попал как студент Горного института... Голод, отягощённый эпидемей тифа... Интересно, почему никто не ставит в вину Сталину голод 22го года в Поволжье? Или голод 46-47 года? "Множатся преступения кровавого тирана народов Иосифа Сталина! Вчера к ним добавилось еще и ограбление пивного ларька!"...
Что особенно бесит - это что они говорят о вещах, которых в принципе не в состоянии понять. Им всю жизнь вколачивали в голову что коммунизм - плохо, Сталин - гад и бяка, русские - пьяные азиаты на мохноногих лошадках. И в отличие от нас - они во всё это верят и не подвергают сомнению. Идеальные советские граждане: раз по телеку сказали - значит правда. Я не любитель коммунистов, но надо же голову на плечах иметь.. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Martlet
Just send it to their home address. They don't spend much time in Chechnya. The Chechs don't allow it.
Very clever. As usual.
Do you know that American daily losses in Iraq are already bigger then Soviet losses in Afghanistan?
I can disagree with your government, but I will never afford to say something like you did towards your soldiers dieing in Iraq.
So I only can advise you to please STFU. You already have shown many times that you are in love with terrorists, and the only way to keep looking clever is to keep silence.
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(now we all know what Boroda smells like ;))
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Originally posted by Saintaw
(now we all know what Boroda smells like ;))
Top water lures seem to bring up the bottom feeders from time to time ;)
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ygsmilo: As ususal you are relying on your experience in the worlds biggest horde (the Red Army) and trying to tell the rest of us how it is. Russian leadership usually means...
Raub is a vet and he knows - Leadership makes an army.
You generalise too much. First, I know about other armies than just russian one.
Second, russian army was quite a varied institution. Sure, the majority were a horde without any leadership. Russian leadership ment paperwork to show the brass. Nobody expected to actually have a shooting war - just like US.
At the same time the minority of units that had to operate in combat, especially on their own initiative, had to be staffed by warriors, even if they were serf warriors. There the leadership certainly matters - but the leadership in real life is not an institutional leadership or a top guy parading with a flag or a fake turkey but a personal leadership of a guy right next to you - not necessarily the top rank in a group but the natural leader.
Such natural leaders are not produced by the army.
Most likely the character traits contributing to the leadership are inborn but even if they can be affected, certainly not after the age that make one eligible to enlist.
To the extent that warrior abilities are malleable, they are somewhat affected by culture. That is why southerners produce more good soldiers than the rest of the country. Military academies working with children have good success rate even though lot of it is explained by the candidate selection.
For all practical purposes, the talk about leadership is the same BS as empwerment, intelligence, charisma, etc.
All those are inborn. Such people are selected and advanced, not created by institutions.
Sure, a leader with experience is greater than a leader without experience. But you cannot create a leader by training - just allow the natural one to expose himself.
Boroda, I have to disagree with you about the hunger in teh Ukraine.
The draughts/floods and losses of harvest happen regularly to all countries. Those result in famines only in countries where capitalism is not developed.
The russian famines before 1917 were publicised but theyw ere nothing compared to the famines afterwards.
The Ukraininan famine of early 30s was not even linked to the bad harvest - only to the policy of collectivisation.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
You generalise too much. First, I know about other armies than just russian one. miko
How many armies have you served in?
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Sixpence: Russian leadership usually means...
Sixpence: Raub is a vet and he knows...
Sixpence: How many armies have you served in?
So you've served in russian army to know how it worked and also in american army - to be able to judge Raub's veracity?
As for me, I have personal experience of the former soviet (strictly speaking - not russian) army, personal experience with the afghani fighters of various tribal groups and mujaheddin from other muslim countries (though I did not have a chance to "serve" with them).
For the rest of it, my experience is second-hand, just like most of the experience of most of the people.
We, humans, have this facinating ability to convey experience through speech and writing and discriminating abilities of the receiving mind necessary to absorb and intergate that experience into a usefull knowlege.
Only the smart ones, of course and those having the previous experience to use as a yardstick for aquired one.
The cognitevely challenged among us have problem learning, so they often have hard time grasping the notion of learning other than by direct experience.
miko