Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Krusher on December 03, 2003, 09:04:02 AM

Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Krusher on December 03, 2003, 09:04:02 AM
Canada's air force, as well as either the army or navy, will likely cease to exist around the end of this decade unless the federal government orders a massive infusion of cash, warns a Queen's University study to be released today.

If funding for new equipment continues to decline and is not increased, "then the air force will likely disappear through the 2008-2013 time frame, and either the army or navy will disappear in the same time frame."


http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?id=E61A3349-665F-4798-B803-5CEF252A1D47
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Mini D on December 03, 2003, 09:13:46 AM
Why?  Are their planes and tanks biodegradable?
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Toad on December 03, 2003, 09:28:57 AM
No they're going the ultimate "stealth" route.
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: ra on December 03, 2003, 09:57:00 AM
"Free" healthcare.
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: miko2d on December 03, 2003, 10:15:32 AM
Canadians have bigger problems to worry about than military. In fact, they would be lucky if someone invaded them and took over their fiscal mess

(http://www.economist.com/images/20031122/CFN066.gif)

In the long run we are all broke (http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=2227506)

 miko
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: AWMac on December 03, 2003, 10:38:11 AM
"Friendly Fire?"
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: ra on December 03, 2003, 10:39:47 AM
Look how frugal we Yanks are!  Not like those spendthrift Dutch!!
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: RTR on December 03, 2003, 10:58:07 AM
Poor Taste Mac.

RTR
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Pongo on December 03, 2003, 11:00:12 AM
So within 6 years our new APCs and our M16s will stop working? Our F18s will cease to fly?
"The report was produced by researchers with the defence management studies program at Queen's University in collaboration with the Ottawa-based Conference of Defence Associations.

"
I can believe that a group funded by defence contractors and suppliers would believe so. But of course it is ludicrous. we need to shore up our forces to fix our relations with the US? I dont see the relationship between the two myself.

As to Canadas baby boom pension and healthcare bubble. That economist must be pretty stupid if he thinks it only applies to Canada. Its only in our chart yet every coutnry will face it. The US more so since it has a fatter less healthy population. Who pays for it. We all do. Canadians will pay it in taxes. Amuricans will pay it in higher premiums or vastly increased welfare.
Take your pick - its comming. If we continue to allow the health industries to do any procedures they can no matter the cost or the long term advantage then they will. We will be spending our future keeping fat smoking baby boomers alive instead of doing all the things we should be doing with our money be it taxes or premuims or what ever. Its all money.
At least in canada we have a chance of mandating what kinds of things will be done to limit costs and we arent shy about pirating perscription drugs to cut costs.
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: ra on December 03, 2003, 11:03:22 AM
Quote
At least in canada we have a chance of mandating what kinds of things will be done to limit costs and we arent shy about pirating perscription drugs to cut costs.

Governments don't have a very good track record for mandating cost limits.  They do a great job of limiting supply and quality, though.
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: firbal on December 03, 2003, 11:43:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ra
Governments don't have a very good track record for mandating cost limits.  They do a great job of limiting supply and quality, though.


I think a good example is the VA Hospitals run by the Government. They are looking for ways to cuts expenses and keep cut the money to the VA.

So if you want me to support Government heath care, then start with the VA and prove to me they are up to the task.
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: miko2d on December 03, 2003, 12:05:55 PM
firbal: I think a good example is the VA Hospitals run by the Government. They are looking for ways to cuts expenses and keep cut the money to the VA.

 Economic calculation is not possible without private property, that is why socialism cannot work ("Socialism" by L. von Mises). They may be thinking they are cutting expenses but they are missing many side-effects because there is no market and no market prices as well as no profit or loss. Socialist enterprises cannot even tell if they are accumulating capital or decumulating it.

 miko
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: OIO on December 03, 2003, 01:16:45 PM
and the boy scouts are disbanding.

:p
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Mini D on December 03, 2003, 01:21:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
So within 6 years our new APCs and our M16s will stop working? Our F18s will cease to fly?
"The report was produced by researchers with the defence management studies program at Queen's University in collaboration with the Ottawa-based Conference of Defence Associations.

"
I can believe that a group funded by defence contractors and suppliers would believe so. But of course it is ludicrous. we need to shore up our forces to fix our relations with the US? I dont see the relationship between the two myself.
Hehehe... Was thinking the same thing.

MiniD
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Dago on December 03, 2003, 01:35:11 PM
Canadien snipers did some fine work in Afghanistan.  Would be a shame to let a program like that fade away.


dago
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Ripper29 on December 03, 2003, 04:06:45 PM
Canadian Sniper Makes War Record Shot, 2430 Meters Canadian sets record for a long-distance shot under combat.
 link
http://www.cavers.com/pipermail/tfr-l/2002-May/000214.html

The kill, one of more than 20 unofficially credited to Canadian snipers during Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan's Shahi Kot Valley, beat the 35-year-old record of 2,500 yards, or 2,250 metres, set by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock in Duc Pho, South Vietnam.

:D

But will give credit where credit is due, they did use American Ammunition, the stuff our government issued did not have enough power.  The Canadian .50-calibre rounds have a maximum range of between 2,200 and 2,300 metres while the American rounds have better ballistic qualities and overall range.

:aok
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Pongo on December 03, 2003, 04:07:20 PM
Not enough money in funding snipers. Thats the last thing this group cares about. Infact they propbably bothered by the whole sniper concept.

People know alot more about economics then me. But it seems to me that Canada is factoring in the costs of the baby boom getting old and the others are not. Yet we all can see that it will have to be paid for somehow.  Every country will have to pay for it or adjust the services that are provided. No matter how it is paid for. That chart is just silly.
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Maniac on December 03, 2003, 04:19:38 PM
Quote
Canadian Sniper Makes War Record Shot, 2430 Meters Canadian sets record for a long-distance shot under combat.


Instead of invading Iraq, they should have sent this guy...
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Gman on December 03, 2003, 04:28:27 PM
Quote
But will give credit where credit is due, they did use American Ammunition, the stuff our government issued did not have enough power. The Canadian .50-calibre rounds have a maximum range of between 2,200 and 2,300 metres while the American rounds have better ballistic qualities and overall range.


Incorrect, my company sold 750 GR AMAX 50 cal rounds, and Aaron Perry, an..aquaintance..of mine was the person who made the shot.  He later was "disciplined", as it was seen in the media, for collecting "trophies" from the dead Taliban fighters.  I have held in my hand an ammo link from the Russian made gun mounted on the truck where this shot was made.


Also, this hasn't officially broken yet, but the "blended metal" ammunition thread reminded me of a "rumour, cough".  JTF2 (Canadian Socom troops) has scored a 3500 meter plus kill with .50 cal blended metal rounds recently, it'll be in a magazine article this month sometime.
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Ripper29 on December 03, 2003, 04:53:54 PM
07/10/2002
The Globe and Mail
 
A world-record shot by a Canadian sniper detachment in Afghanistan could never have been made with the ammunition they were issued by the Canadian military, says the shooter, who used U.S. rounds for the landmark kill.

http://www.infantry.army.mil/catd/afghanistan/articles/canadian%20snipers.doc

GMAN...you may have different sources about the ammo used, I relied on various news articals that were published as well as talking with some friends in the PPCLI.  Not meaning to argue  
:D
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Gman on December 03, 2003, 06:22:46 PM
That article is basically correct, it WAS US ammo, most of our CF ammo is made be SNC Lavalin (SS109 etc, IVI headstamped).  The ammo DID however come from a Canadian distribution company.

:aok
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: mrblack on December 03, 2003, 07:16:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripper29
Canadian Sniper Makes War Record Shot, 2430 Meters Canadian sets record for a long-distance shot under combat.
 link
http://www.cavers.com/pipermail/tfr-l/2002-May/000214.html

The kill, one of more than 20 unofficially credited to Canadian snipers during Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan's Shahi Kot Valley, beat the 35-year-old record of 2,500 yards, or 2,250 metres, set by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock in Duc Pho, South Vietnam.

:D

But will give credit where credit is due, they did use American Ammunition, the stuff our government issued did not have enough power.  The Canadian .50-calibre rounds have a maximum range of between 2,200 and 2,300 metres while the American rounds have better ballistic qualities and overall range.

:aok


Good men all the way !!
Canada should be proud:aok
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: davidpt40 on December 03, 2003, 07:24:25 PM
In a perfect world, no country will need a military.  Canada is expediting the process.
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: AKIron on December 03, 2003, 09:56:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
So within 6 years our new APCs and our M16s will stop working? Our F18s will cease to fly?


Depends, those F18s certainly won't last 6 years of routine use without much expensive upkeep.
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Fuzzy on December 03, 2003, 11:29:38 PM
Canada has a Navy? Bass boats with coaxial mounted red riders? Patented "dock fender" armor plate? Humminbird state of the art fishfin, i mean sonar? Minn-kota "stealth-drive"?  Ratt-L Trap (in rainbow trout) trolling torpedoes? .68 cal man portable Auto-Cocker burst ammo anti-aircraft/CIWS system? Tandem axle Bayliner galvanized trailer for stealth insertions (Isuzu P'up is the tow, I mean launch system)? Thomas Guide tactical location system? Sony Handicam night vision system? Jeez I kill me...
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Gunslinger on December 04, 2003, 12:00:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo

People know alot more about economics then me. But it seems to me that Canada is factoring in the costs of the baby boom getting old and the others are not. Yet we all can see that it will have to be paid for somehow.  Every country will have to pay for it or adjust the services that are provided. No matter how it is paid for. That chart is just silly.


If I'm hearing you right you are saying that this whole baby boom retirment thing is bad?????

I'm not economist but the way I see it is this......big institutions and government orginizations in 10 to 15 years will experience the biggest manpower shortage they've ever felt.  This means more jobs available for my generations (i think i'm X or pepsi...cant remember)  

Not to mention these retirees will start drawing on what's left of there 401k or other plans.....this means more tax revenue for the govt.


not sure if this makes up for paying for there diapers or not but at least that's the bright side.....Miko what you think?
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Fuzzy on December 04, 2003, 12:05:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
If I'm hearing you right you are saying that this whole baby boom retirment thing is bad?????


not sure if this makes up for paying for there diapers or not but at least that's the bright side.....Miko what you think?


Someone is going to have to provide and pay for healthcare. Think the medicare system will hold up under a few million new enrollees?
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Torque on December 04, 2003, 12:42:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Fuzzy
Canada has a Navy? Bass boats with coaxial mounted red riders? Patented "dock fender" armor plate? Humminbird state of the art fishfin, i mean sonar? Minn-kota "stealth-drive"?  Ratt-L Trap (in rainbow trout) trolling torpedoes? .68 cal man portable Auto-Cocker burst ammo anti-aircraft/CIWS system? Tandem axle Bayliner galvanized trailer for stealth insertions (Isuzu P'up is the tow, I mean launch system)? Thomas Guide tactical location system? Sony Handicam night vision system? Jeez I kill me...


OMG you mean we got the new versions already?

WoooHooo.........:aok
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Badger on December 04, 2003, 06:31:33 AM
(http://members.tacticalgamer.com/~badger/battleship.jpg)
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: sling322 on December 04, 2003, 10:11:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripper29
Canadian Sniper Makes War Record Shot, 2430 Meters Canadian sets record for a long-distance shot under combat.
 


So.....how long was that shot after the exchange rate?






:D
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Pongo on December 04, 2003, 11:40:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
If I'm hearing you right you are saying that this whole baby boom retirment thing is bad?????

 


What I am saying is that all western courtries will be hit with the same sitation. How they pay for it is irrelivant. Including how Canada will pay for it and not the others invalidates the graph.
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on December 05, 2003, 12:27:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Canadians have bigger problems to worry about than military. In fact, they would be lucky if someone invaded them and took over their fiscal mess

(http://www.economist.com/images/20031122/CFN066.gif)

In the long run we are all broke (http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=2227506)

 miko


Hah!! We're less broke than the rest of you sorry bums...still broke though...
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: SLO on December 05, 2003, 07:38:51 AM
I'm broke...

so I'm I bud...I'm broke too.

so I'm I,  says the other idiot....

well question is....WHO is MORE broke then the other:rofl
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: Ripper29 on December 05, 2003, 07:42:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by sling322
So.....how long was that shot after the exchange rate?






:D


2,657.480315 yards  :p

or

1.509932 miles :eek:
Title: Re: Canada's Military
Post by: Chanter on December 06, 2003, 12:48:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusher
Canada's air force, as well as either the army or navy, will likely cease to exist around the end of this decade unless the federal government orders a massive infusion of cash, warns a Queen's University study to be released today.

If funding for new equipment continues to decline and is not increased, "then the air force will likely disappear through the 2008-2013 time frame, and either the army or navy will disappear in the same time frame."


http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?id=E61A3349-665F-4798-B803-5CEF252A1D47


Golly Gee I hope not. :rolleyes:

I've got a contract until 2018. (Not to mention a mortgage, baby due in 2 weeks etc etc)

Unless of course they give me a sweet contract buy out like they did for Ottawa's City Manager. :aok
Title: Canada's Military
Post by: NUKE on December 06, 2003, 12:53:25 PM
The USA is still GODZILLA and that's all that matters :)

We are "broke" lol