Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BlkKnit on December 03, 2003, 12:35:41 PM
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OK, another Yak thread.
I have always had trouble with them. Seems like if there's a Yak around I better hurry up and try to get a kill 'cause I wont be flyin long. But, I tried them a few times in the past with no luck at all. I just could not see how they were so effective...I mean, no WEP, poor gun package (compared to LW stuff I usually fly) and I just could not fly the thing with any "skill" (normal for me anyway).
So a couple of nights ago, I decide what the heck, and up in Yak-9U. Geez I was impressed. Why had I not had this kind of result before? I still suck, and its still the same old Yak. I was near HQ, bombers everywhere, and being the type to normally get a few pings and die horribly, I thought "I am in the wrong plane for this" but, I zoom in, get tight on the bomber and give a short burst..boom! I never hit that consistant in a 109, even in level attitudes, going straight in. I was nailing deflection shots, stuff was blowing up from very short bursts. Had 3 kills and half my ammo left and I can empty some guns in a hurry! The situation was very much abnormal for me.
So, if I can do that, even on what was a good night for me, why is the Yak not more popular? What do the dedicated Yak flyers know that the rest of us dont? Care to share your secrets?
It seems to me the Yak may be the toughest fighter in the game below a Tempest. I know I cant seem to beat them in a fight...ever. Same goes for other planes, but at least I can put up a bit of a fight before I die against them. Never last very long against a Yak.
just wondering about it, I hope some folks know some ways to beat a Yak and might be inclined to share that too.
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There are a few quirks about it that sometimes make it fustrating to fly:
The first I remembered was that any ping from any angle, usually resulted in losing the radiator, not fun when its knocked out from insane ranges....
She won't bring you any 8+ kill sorties, so become content with only 4-5 kill sorties (which hell I am, but could do better in a p38 ).. unless you refuel/rearm... (How often does the average pilot do so?)
Ammo load is not forgiving, miss a shot, ya better not miss to many more.
Things to love about her....
Shes fast, almost like the 38, things she can't out maneuver she can out climb/run, things she cant out run (which are few) she can out maneuver, etc.. Her gun package isn't so bad, very concentrated 8 MG, and 4 cannon rounds in 1 concentrated spot usually knocks it off... they're nose mounted so no need for convergence... Shes a very small target! Quite easy to shake folks.
Shes a good plane... but she gets over looked for the La-7... all in all, if you like the plane, learn it and don't tell anyone... The less people know about it the less they know what to do when they encounter you... more kills for you.. which usually means much more fun..
-BM
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heh, just read Soda's write up on it. Basically says forget it, you cant beat it. Well, the skilled pilots could, but average sticks like me can pretty much only hope for a lot of luck.
Thnks BlckMgc.
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I have wet dreams of a Yaks with big guns.
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Uh oh, the secret's out.
The only real drawback is range. Small gas tanks with no drop tanks allowed.
That other YAK thread made me nervous but this one's going to produce a horde of new YAK drivers.
I'm going to have to become more aware now.
Couldn't you all just go back to flying P-47's? That was better for my kill/death ratio.
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I bagged 3 Lancs and a Mustang in a Yak9U and had just under 50% of my ammo left over before I mushed into the ground. The trick is shooting like a sniper instead of Rambo.
The Yak9U has a very high rate of fire. You get in close and all you need is a microsecond to land all of your shots, usually a microsecond of stitching the 20mm cannon and 12.7 machine guns is all I need to saw off a wing or stabilizer. The 109 suffers from slower ROF (or so it seems).
If I find myself shooting out beyond d300, I fire only the machine guns. Some good pings will pop a radiator or scare the guy into turning so that I can finish the job with the cannon. I only fire the cannon when I'm inside of d300 on the guy. Like I said, get in close with the rapid-fire cannon and all you need is a microsecond to take off the guy's wing.
Don't bother using tracers. At the ranges you'll be shooting, you won't be able to miss.
The Yak is fairly durable, but its one glaring weakness is its radiator. Once the core is hit, you've got 30 seconds to land it before the engine seizes up. Or so it seems.
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Originally posted by Blooz
That other YAK thread made me nervous but this one's going to produce a horde of new YAK drivers.
Nah, the short clip and need to get within knife-fighting range will keep most people away.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Nah, the short clip and need to get within knife-fighting range will keep most people away.
-Sik
Sikboy is right the majority of players are sprayers, after one sortie with the yakt they move on to LA-7's..
After the thread I have noticed more Yaks in the MA, 1 vs 1 Yak fight is a hoot!! Especially in a MA made of LA-7's
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Geez, just when I made up my mind to try and master the Pony, this thread comes along. Decisions, decisions......nah, I'll stay with the pony for this tour. Maybe try the Yak next tour.
Slim03
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well, I had actually tried 3 planes I almost never fly
Yak 9U, Pony and Tempest
Did fairly well with all 3 of them, which I never had before.
Plus tried B pony...nice plane, died a lot, but nice plane.
But, yeah, Blooz has a point, the P47 is much better, a real moster of a fighter. I highly recommend it to all, especially newer players :D :p ;) (it really is, in the hands of a good pilot....I only die in 'em)
Oh, not such good results this afternoon, but was still fun.
Range does stink.
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Originally posted by 1K0N
Sikboy is right the majority of players are sprayers, after one sortie with the yakt they move on to LA-7's..
After the thread I have noticed more Yaks in the MA, 1 vs 1 Yak fight is a hoot!! Especially in a MA made of LA-7's
I'm thinkin that one way to improve my score and K/D ratio is to become more picky about withwhom and when I engage. Not gonna get sucked into another e-sucking turn fight with an La7, Spit5 and a Yak, all at the same time.
Yeah...that might help ;)
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PERK IT!!!
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Originally posted by BlkKnit
heh, just read Soda's write up on it. Basically says forget it, you cant beat it. Well, the skilled pilots could, but average sticks like me can pretty much only hope for a lot of luck.
Thnks BlckMgc.
Speaking as a P-38 pilot I find that taking the fight vertical where the P-38 has the advantage is the quickest and easiest way to take down a Yak.
Forcing the fight into a turn fight is another way. While the Yak might have a quicker initial turn rate for a couple of turns, the better turn radius and low speed handling of the P-38 easily counters this, usually resulting in beautiful snap shot opportunities as the Yak passes in front of your guns.
The only time a Yak is a threat for me is if the Yak as a significant altitude advantage and the pilot is smart enough to use it wisely and not allow himself to get into a vertical or turn fight with my P-38.
ack-ack
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I put the Yak9 and Ki61 in the same category.
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The Yak is a damn fine plane, 'till it takes a hit. Radiator hits seem to occur at least half the time there is even one ping. You've got about a minute flying time left when it springs a leak.
Fly it as if your sitting naked in a glass plane. Figuratively speaking, unecessary to actually disrobe. ;)
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well, did terrible tonight. guess the other night was a fluke. Its a nice plane, and fun, but its not a super machine. I will still be flying it though. 1 ping from .50 cal, and losing vertical stab sucks, but hey, maybe that was a fluke too. The radiator thing is truly annoying. I am learning to avoid HO's like my life depends on it....and running (extending) more than usual.
Tangled with a spit this afternoon, we went at it for quite a while, me extending and rolling back, extending away, trying to find the guys six, him trying to slow me down. Was lots of fun...in the end we both just flew away.
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Thanks for bringing up the yak -- I've been flying it for over year and last night I saw more of them than I ever have. I also kept seeing XXX landed 2 kills in a yak... in the text buffer.
It was fun seeing everyone trying it out, but I do hope that they all jump back into the truly uber planes soon. :D
Ack-Ack -- you are right I did have a problem last night with a decently sticked p38. In the end we settled for a draw (both flying away and engaging others). A couple other 38s were rudely surprised, but a decent stick with the 38 can be problematic for the yak.
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It's in a mixed-match relationship with the La-7.
Slightly more maneuverability and less speed - Yak-9U
Slightly more speed and less maneuverability - La-7
You can disregard Ack, since no plane ever seems to bother his P-38L at all. ;) Not much of an analogy, and not much of a help as well. :D
As for the most of us average grade virtual pilots who constitute the majority of AH world, teh Yak-9U is a very fine machine which belongs in the same class as the Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9, La-7, and the P-51D. Since the element of success for average pilots in the MA is speed(to run away at the first sight of disavantage), the Yak-9U has speed enough. The fore-mentioned planes are about only ones that will catch it, and they are all outmaneuvered by it.
Ofcourse, when you get caught in a mixed match of Las and N1Ks or Spits, you're dead - but that's same with any plane any pilot, so not much of an issue. Concerning 1944 standards, it is one of the best planes with superb balance between speed and maneuverability. As a one vs one machine, it is also deadly lethal.
Among the faster planes, only the G-10 and the La-7 are pretty much a contest in close quarters maneuvering, with still quite a bit of edge going to the Yak. P-51s or 1909D-9s, will have a really hard time shaking it off if they don't have enough room to dive and extend.
As a LW plane fan, the Yak-9U is a bane to LW planes - I certainly wouldn't want to meet one on equal terms.
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I'd say the reason the Yak isn't more popular is because we have the La-7. The La-7 is just as manueverable, accelerates and climbs better, and has about 3 times the firepower. Oh yea, and it is 20 mph faster.
The Yak-9 is about in the same class as the 109G-10 and the 190D-9, its a solid second rate airplane.
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Originally posted by dfl8rms
Thanks for bringing up the yak -- I've been flying it for over year and last night I saw more of them than I ever have. I also kept seeing XXX landed 2 kills in a yak... in the text buffer.
I dunno...I been seeing a lot of them in the past month or so, which is what led me to try it again in the first place. I dont think I've seen but 1 or 2 of them since I started this thread though. But, it certainly was not me landing those kills in the text buffer....I have not landed more than 1 kill in a couple of days, so someone is flying them ;)
Its a fun plane, but not a world beater...and WHAT IS UP WITH THE RADIATOR! that is even more annoying than the usual single ping, glancing shot "pilot wound" I always seem to get. Sometimes now I get both :( gotta love it. :rofl
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Originally posted by Urchin
I'd say the reason the Yak isn't more popular is because we have the La-7. The La-7 is just as manueverable, accelerates and climbs better, and has about 3 times the firepower. Oh yea, and it is 20 mph faster.
The Yak-9 is about in the same class as the 109G-10 and the 190D-9, its a solid second rate airplane.
Hiyas Urchin:)
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Howdy, how ya been?
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Originally posted by BlkKnit
which is what led me to try it again in the first place. I dont think I've seen but 1 or 2 of them since I started this thread though. But, it certainly was not me landing those kills in the text buffer....I have not landed more than 1 kill in a couple of days, so someone is flying them ;)
Its a fun plane, but not a world beater...and WHAT IS UP WITH I THE RADIATOR! that is even more annoying than the usual single ping, glancing shot "pilot wound" I always seem to get. Sometimes now I get both :( gotta love it. :rofl
heheh told ya..
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If you're of LW stock you need to fly the Yak like a fast 109F4.
If you're of Allied stock you need to fly it like a low-med alt B-Pony.
Really nice plane, a bit short ranged but the guns are great. The guns have a higher rate of fire than the LW counterparts, which gives them more destructive power at the cost of accuracy and ammo consumption. The Yak doesn't compress as fast as a 109, but it will compress before a Pony so you will still need to trim her manually in dives.
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The other Russian planes seem to be doing OK against it though.
This Tour:
The La-5FN has 8 kills and has been killed 3 times against the Yak-9U. (La5 266%)
The La-7 has 71 kills and has been killed 66 times against the Yak-9U. (La7 108%)
Last Tour:
The La-5FN has 103 kills and has been killed 83 times against the Yak-9U. (La5 124%)
The La-7 has 533 kills and has been killed 501 times against the Yak-9U. (La7 106%)
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Originally posted by Blooz
That other YAK thread made me nervous but this one's going to produce a horde of new YAK drivers.
Count one new Yak driver. :D
I tried it out for the first time seriously last night, and boy did I have a blast. Goes like a bat out of hell and handles wonderfully. The ballistics and ammo load take getting used to, but having to be stingy with ammo tends to improve your ACM skills as you manoeuver for a close shot, and your gunnery is helped by the need to hit on your first couple of bursts.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Howdy, how ya been?
Doin great...heart beats and I'm walkin around:)
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Originally posted by Urchin
The Yak-9 is about in the same class as the 109G-10 and the 190D-9, its a solid second rate airplane.
That's the way I see it, too, along with the P-51B. There are better planes out there, but once you learn the idiosyncracies of the type it becomes a potent weapon. Last night I had good luck against Spitfire IXs in the Yak9U
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Originally posted by davidpt40
I put the Yak9 and Ki61 in the same category.
I can't, and I fly both on a regular basis (more Yak-9T tho). Aside from general configuration, they have almost nothing in common.
Climb is incomparable, level speed isn't even remotely close. Acceleration differences are like night and day. Range? The Ki-61 can fly along way with drop tanks and internal fuel, the Yak is a one sector fighter. Guns? Absolutely no brainer here, Ki-61 wins by a country mile. Turning ability is similar until speeds drop below 200 mph where the Yak is badly outclassed.
I don't simply don't see how they can fit into the same category.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
I don't simply don't see how they can fit into the same category.
At first I thought the same think, in that yo can not fly them bothh the same way and expect results.
But I think they are similiar in that they are planes you don't see as often, but can yeild good results (although from reports this isi changinig and therer are more and more yakmen as the days go by).
They are both "Better than thier MA reputation" I think.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Widewing
I don't simply don't see how they can fit into the same category.
The firepower difference is one 20mm cannon, which is something, but I think the Shvak is much better ballistically than the Ki-61 guns. Another way to think about it, the Yak 9U has the same basic firepower as a late model 109 (in 20mm form). The Yak9U does have less ammo though for the cowl guns. I don't consider them in the same category though, not at all. They really are completely different. the Ki is the kind of plane that needs some advantage to start with, possibly a lot, where the Yak9U can come in to an even fight and easily win. Also, the Ki is really WEP dependent, without it you take a huge hit, that's never a problem in the WEP-less Yak9U.
There are quite a few Yak9U's around lately, I think people have discovered it from several threads that have circulated. It might not be in the absolute top performers but it can certainly hold it's own against most rides. The only real knocks against the Yak-9U that I have are a rather pathetic range and fragile rad.
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Soda, the difference is significant.
It's like saying "the difference between a single MG151/20 and two Hispano MKII isn't that much" - which obviously in AH, is not true.
The Ho-5 cannon is practically the same thing as the Hispanos(with a little lighter shells I think). It's power and trajectory is one of the best in AH, though that fact isn't realized much since there's only one plane which uses that cannon. Quite different from the Type99 cannons, if that's what you were thinking.
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Personally, I don't think the Ho-5 hits anywhere near as hard as a Hispano. It might seem that way, since you have two fast firing cannons mounted in the nose, but I think the Ho-5 is probably around the same damage level as the N1K2's cannons are, about 80-85% as effective.
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http://www.sonymusic.com/clips/selection/30/063770/063770_01_02_30.wav
for urchins sig line
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Soda, the difference is significant.
It's like saying "the difference between a single MG151/20 and two Hispano MKII isn't that much" - which obviously in AH, is not true.
The Ho-5 cannon is practically the same thing as the Hispanos(with a little lighter shells I think). It's power and trajectory is one of the best in AH, though that fact isn't realized much since there's only one plane which uses that cannon. Quite different from the Type99 cannons, if that's what you were thinking.
The Ho-5 in AH has a muzzle velocity of around 700-730m/s and the damage was calculated at 3.36lbs/shell. The 12.7mm Ho-103 is around 760m/s at 0.998lbs/shell. Compared to the ShVAK, 860m/s and 3.47lbs/shell and the UBS, 860m/s and 1.15lb/shell. The MG151/20 was 710m/s (not M-Geschoss) and 3.55lbs/shell damage. The hispano was 880m/s and 4.03lb/shell damage, neither cannon really compares well to that, nor does the MG151/20.
That gives the ShVAK better muzzle velocity than the Ho-5 and slightly better damage. The UBS is very well matched to the ShVAK (has the same muzzle velocity) and is slightly superior to the Ho-103 in damage. The place where the firepower on the Ki-61 is better, in my mind, is the layout of the cannons in the fuselage (cowl) and the number of rounds/gun for the 12.7mm's (the aircraft both have 120 rounds/cannon but the Ki-61 has 80 rounds/gun more for the 12.7mm).
My point was though, the Yak9U is not really under-armed as compared to many aircraft. I do think the Ki-61 is more heavily armed but the Yak9U is not lacking. The Ho-5 is nothing like a hispano though, it is less "hispano-ish" than the ShVAK, but I think the cowl mounting gives more concentrated hits which gives the impression it might be superior. I have flown the Yak9U quite a bit and I find the guns an excellent match, the can very effectively deal with enemy aircraft and it's one of the few aircraft where the guns are matched ballistically well at shorter ranges that you can fire everything and expect hits.
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If you got a YAK fire'n at you, you might as well just give up... the problem for the YAK is getting within range
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Originally posted by whoru
If you got a YAK fire'n at you, you might as well just give up...
Why?
ack-ack
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Because some random newbie said so ack-ack... stop being such a spoilsport!