Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: qts on December 06, 2003, 08:50:41 AM
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I've played Beta 5 for approx 1 hour and my initial impression is that Beta 5 stinks.
1 GB P4-2400, XP Pro SP1 fully patched, Gf4-4200, DX9, 1024x768@32 bit, Cougar. Behind a Smoothwall firewall.
The clipboard UI has GOT to be improved. In the hangar it almost covers everything when at a usable size. It's very hard to select the fuel.
Very difficult to take off in many aircraft.
Zoom doesn't work but causes screen flashing.
Can't raise or lower flaps in assorted aircraft.
Auto-takeoff doesn't work.
When firing at buildings, I get hit sprites on farmhouses but nothing when attacking buildings on enemy airfields and no damage seems to be taken in either case.
Mouseview won't turn off and is bl**dy annoying when the clipboard is up. Can it be automatically disabled when the clipboard is up?
In the cockpit, parts of the cockpit e.g. the frame, overlay the clipboard.
The map is fuzzy.
I was switching between views and once got a front view with no cockpit. I was unable to repeat this.
Guys, please invest some time in QA. I'm confident you'll do better next time.
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Remember AH2 is geared toward more realistic flight and they are darned close already. :aok
Auto takeoff works in EVERY plane. You just can't punch the throttle to full throttle and expect to take off any more. Which is the way it always should have been. Be easy on the throttle and you'll get off the ground. The exception might the the spit 9. They are aware of a bug in the model.
Heck, I wish they would model temperature and require the proper running temperature before takeoff to. Few if any planes should be flown before proper warm-up.
The mouse view can be turned off in Setup - Preferences - View Options, Un-check "Start in Mouse Look". :D
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I've played Beta 5 for approx 1 hour and my initial impression is that Beta 5 stinks.
You DO know what a beta is don't you? :rolleyes:
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Using the descriptor "stinks" is just wrong. Maybe the phrase "needs more work" would be more appropriate ... after all it is BETA.
It is more than likely that HT has turned off a lot of things that one may expect/want to see.
When debugging and evaluating something specific, it is best to eliminate extraneous variables that could cloud or add complexity to what you are focusing in on ... such as turning off the complete damage model cause you are only focusing on the flight model at the moment.
HT, Pyro, or Skuzzy ... maybe if you guys explained what is turned on or better yet, what is turned off, then people might not get exasperated with their expectations.
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I'm well aware that it's beta - I've done software development myself.
NHawk I know of the setting within setup. It doesn't work.
And I'll refer everyone to the final line in my OP.
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qts the problem is in the wording of your "evaluation", HTC has enough to contend with people saying negative stuff about their product without any constructive criticism.
Remember it's a very small team of programmers working here, IMHO that makes all the negative comments so much harder to take.
Just my 2 cents...
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Please remove/redo hit sprites. Looks great until the tennis balls show up.
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Is this another "DOLT" thread?
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Originally posted by NHawk
-SNIP-
Heck, I wish they would model temperature and require the proper running temperature before takeoff to. Few if any planes should be flown before proper warm-up.
-SNIP-
So, you're saying you won't mind being relentlessly vulched
as you sit "warming up"?
The "accurate" ground handling aspects of A/C are the least of
modeling issues I would want any time spent on.
As it stands now, the need to gradually increase power as
speed slowly increases will mean that once the enema manage
to get a few A/C over your field there will be little or no
chance that anyone will be able to get aloft. You'll then be
left with the only alternatives...up from a field farther away
and spend more time flying to a fight...or log. I'd chose the
latter.
=GB=
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I dont think you can have a good flight model at > 100 mph and a bad flight model at < 100 mph. If the fm is good, it will be more difficult to land and take off.
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Originally posted by zmeg
Is this another "DOLT" thread?
YEP:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by ergRTC
If the fm is good, it will be more difficult to land and take off.
hmmm ?
How can you link to different things ????
And why should it be difficult to land/take off ???
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Well, when you stall out at 80 mph while dog fighting, how well does your plane behave? Do you expect your plane to behave any better when you are doing 80 mph trying to take off?
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Are you pulling G's at take off ?
;)
=> It won't make take off/landing more difficult.
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I don't understand why you guys are whining about takeoff & landing being too hard, the truth is they're still way too easy, there's no way a fighter or bomber with no hook should be able to land on an aircraft carrier, but it can still be done very easily. Instead of spending your time whining try spending some time learning to fly.
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Zmeg ,what about wasting a bit of your time prooving your position ?
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he brings up a good point. Its not a matter of I want difficult, I just want real.
I can do carrier ops with a 163.
And what wont make taking off difficult? pulling gs while taking off?
Since I do not fly, and have no chance at flying these birds ever, I have to gauge how real the characteristics are by discriptions of things like taking off and landing.
There was a wonderful interview with a guy who got a chance to fly a p40. Landing was incredibly difficult. I wish I could remember who it was, may be that guy that died in the f4u accident last year when the engine quite.
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As it stands now, the need to gradually increase power as
speed slowly increases will mean that once the enema manage
to get a few A/C over your field there will be little or no
chance that anyone will be able to get aloft. You'll then be
left with the only alternatives...up from a field farther away
and spend more time flying to a fight...or log. I'd chose the
latter.
It's a flight sim. Sometimes you have to fly. Relax.
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Originally posted by qts
I've played Beta 5 for approx 1 hour and my initial impression is that Beta 5 stinks.
The clipboard UI has GOT to be improved. In the hangar it almost covers everything when at a usable size. It's very hard to select the fuel.
it was my first impresion too, but wait! why dont u hide clipboard? "esc" or you was too lazzy to thinkabout it? ;-)
Originally posted by qts
Very difficult to take off in many aircraft..
spit 5 take off without problem, after 1 failed t/o i was able to start without problems/ Both ponys and 190 , 109 without any problems . Practice make you master ;-)
Originally posted by qts
Zoom doesn't work but causes screen flashing.
same here, i think its temporary
Originally posted by qts
Can't raise or lower flaps in assorted aircraft.
i can say i was able to lower them too easy
Originally posted by qts
Auto-takeoff doesn't work.
its work , just dont touch stick
Originally posted by qts
Mouseview won't turn off and is bl**dy annoying when the clipboard is up. Can it be automatically disabled when the clipboard is up?
Just disable it in setup, if you not like it
Originally posted by qts
The map is fuzzy.
I was switching between views and once got a front view with no cockpit. I was unable to repeat this.
Guys, please invest some time in QA. I'm confident you'll do better next time.
no comments
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Originally posted by qts
Mouseview won't turn off and is bl**dy annoying when the clipboard is up. Can it be automatically disabled when the clipboard is up?
Shift+M toggles mouse view on/off.
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I would like to see a documented source of this : Landing and Take off are difficult.
It's dangerous ?
=>certainly.
It's difficult ?
=>no ,respect the procedure ,don't act stupid and the plane will be airborne fast.
Zmeg as you want me to learn to fly what kind of plane do you suggest ?
I think the kind you're flying currently will be good for me ...
Don't you think ?
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Found the graphics to be very poor - I expected a step up from AH but quite frankly they should have just developed 30 or more planes rather than what they've got for Ah2 - it looks very dated compared to what else is out there.
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Originally posted by qts
Guys, please invest some time in QA. I'm confident you'll do better next time. [/B]
I thought QA was one of the functions of Beta (although I'm not even sure the term "QA" can even be applied to an unfinished product.
-Sik
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Straffo, I have been looking for that interview with the warbirds pilot flying the p40, but cant find it anyway. I think he died in a p38 crash.
I also believe our ideas of difficult and easy may be a little misunderstood. When I say difficult, I mean that somebody that flies zeros all year, jumps into a p40 for the first time, or a 109g10, will be challenged to get the thing in the air safely. Not that somebody who flies a 109g10 all the time will still find taking off a nightmare. Not as easy as a zero of course, just more challenging.
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Here are a couple of examples of what I mean by difficult... This is from an interview with a russian pilot.
http://airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part1.htm
n.g.
Later it was revealed that the Englishman was a certain Major Rook and that he spoke excellent Russian. He had completed our Kachinsk Aviation School. But he spoke English during the entire training period and Russian only at the farewell banquet. At the banquet he said, “I could not [speak Russian] because I am an offical and it was forbidden.” One of our squadron commanders, Kovalenko, studied with him at aviation school. No matter how much Kovalenko tried to coax him:” Hey, why are you evading, you understand everything”, but still failed to convince him to speak [Russian].
This Rook fellow flew the I-16 one time, and climbed out drenched in sweat. “Let the Russians fly this airplane!”
Altogether we spent about five days in the transition training. We learned the general layout: “There is the engine, here is where we top off the fuel tank, there the oil” and so on. We did not go particularly deep into the airplane’s design. We talked, we sat in the cockpit, we taxied a couple of times, and then flew the airplane. I made three flights, that’s all, and I was transitioned. Like they told us, “You want to live—take a seat.” Safonov flew first. He sat in the cockpit four hours familiarizing himself with the layout and then flew the airplane. The rest of us followed him.
A. S. Was there any kind of special selection for transition?
N. G. No. We were trained by squadron.
A. S. Nikolay Gerasimovich, what was your first impression of the Hurricane?
N. G. My first impression was “Hunchback!” Such a “hunchback” cannot be a good fighter. Subsequently my first impression did not change. I was particularly alarmed by the wings. They were so thick. The wings on the Hurricane were thicker than on the Pe-2.
A. S. Was the Hurricane easier to control than the I-16?
N. G. Yes, it was simpler. I did not experience any difficulties in learning the airplane or how to fly it.
.......
or this is neat too
Let me say something else about the air frame. The Hurricane had a very light tail. We were based on sandy, insufficiently packed airfields. It was mandatory that a technician or mechanic sit on the tail when we were taxiing to keep it on the ground. We even flew with a technician sitting on the tail. We had a technician named Rudenko who flew around in a circle sitting on the tail. He sat with his back forward and was unable to jump off because his hands got caught in the skin of the vertical stabilizer. He sat there until the pilot landed the aircraft. There were cases when men fell off the tail and died.
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Originally posted by qts
The clipboard UI has GOT to be improved. In the hangar it almost covers everything when at a usable size. It's very hard to select the fuel.
Clipboard can be made larger and smaller by clicking on the +/- tab at top. Clipboard can also be minimized while you make selections.
(Also you can right click on clipboard to access more options)
Very difficult to take off in many aircraft.
Zoom doesn't work but causes screen flashing.
Can't raise or lower flaps in assorted aircraft.
Auto-takeoff doesn't work.
Takeoff and landing is harder, but they told us this ahead of time.
Spit 9 has a bug, but if you map keys or buttons for Left and Right Wheel brakes you soon learn to steer with brakes and Takeoff becomes much easier.
When firing at buildings, I get hit sprites on farmhouses but nothing when attacking buildings on enemy airfields and no damage seems to be taken in either case.
Some buildings do appear to be undamageable
Mouseview won't turn off and is bl**dy annoying when the clipboard is up. Can it be automatically disabled when the clipboard is up?
Mouse view I don't like either and shouldnt be on by default. You can disable it in Setup/Preferences/View options (or somethign like that) Uncheck Mouse Look box
In the cockpit, parts of the cockpit e.g. the frame, overlay the clipboard.
The map is fuzzy.
I was switching between views and once got a front view with no cockpit. I was unable to repeat this.
Guys, please invest some time in QA. I'm confident you'll do better next time.
They are spending time in QA and we are it :)
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Well,
I guess you could phrase the opinion in a nicer way. But actually, yeah it does pretty much stink. Now I would, and have, phrased my opinion of this version a little nicer than that, but gee whiz, if HiTech wanted "nice" he should not expose this "beta" version to a critical public testing session. Not everyone in this world is "nice". In fact many of your more honest and forthright individuals are not. Doesn't make their assessments any less valuable.
OK, so it doesn't really stink. Well, it isn't at all ready to be called a beta version either. One should remember that HiTech gets is Software QA for free by doing these so called "beta" runs. Otherwise he would have to hire a dozen of us and pay us money for this work. But, as a Software Quality Assurance engineer I can tell you up front that calling this version a beta quality release is a joke. This new flight engine is mostly unplayable to this tester. And you can read unplayable as stinky if you want to. Depending on my mood I would.
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Originally posted by ergRTC
I also believe our ideas of difficult and easy may be a little misunderstood. When I say difficult, I mean that somebody that flies zeros all year, jumps into a p40 for the first time, or a 109g10, will be challenged to get the thing in the air safely. Not that somebody who flies a 109g10 all the time will still find taking off a nightmare. Not as easy as a zero of course, just more challenging.
I agree 100 %.
In fact I've done teh experience some 3 weeks ago , I invited for the WE one of my old friend.
As you can guess we spoke about games and gaming ,he is a great OPF addict (I don't ,it is a bit too close to the ground for my own taste ;))
I tried OPF online and ended killed in all possible situations he was laughing like a mad of my incompetence (btw I was lucky enought to kill 3 guys...)
But it was soon is turn to try my game ...
I had to take off for him (he was killed 3 time in a row in a zeke :rolleyes: )
That's why I'm contradicting you.
Even curently it's difficult ,but you and I are so experienced that we can have a pee when taking off
(btw I'm using auto-take off cause I'm a lazy bastard :))
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They will of course have to make a better auto take-off or new players are going to be a hard sell. We may be getting some new players in BETA but I don't think many.
However, I do think they let people get the idea before release that the BETA was going to be a more finished product _ I was one of em. NOw that I know what we are dealing with I do like the idea of being involved in early stages, as long as that participation is indeed useful to them.
Overall (and over looking the obvious unfinsihed things) the fighting is much more visually appealing - you get to appreciate the art of your opponents plane much more in this new version. The combat has a more up close and personal feel which I find more immersive.
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Originally posted by: straffo
Id like to see a documented source of this : Landing and Take off are difficult.
It's difficult ?
=>no ,respect the procedure ,don't act stupid and the plane will be airborne fast.
The procedure would be apply throttle slowly, while keeping the plane on the centerline with rudder, and don’t apply full throttle till the tail is off the ground.
Because you assume you know the procedure you think something is wrong. It's obvious by your post you don't know the procedure.
Proof you ask for - I have a friend who owns a 250 HP tri-gear bonanza. When he applies full throttle the plane pulls very hard to the left and strait for the grass on the side of the runway and that is only 250 horses. Imagine what it must have been like with the 1k or 2k plus HP that most of the WWII planes had and tail wheel. He applies adequate power to get the thing accelerating down the runway and adds power gradually with full power in just before takeoff speed.
I was in a 150 HP Cessna 152 tail dragger. That thing would spin around in a second given the appropriate throttle and rudder input. Was friggin awesome. something that doesn’t happen in AHI, which does in AHII B5.
Originally posted by OLtos
OK, so it doesn't really stink. Well, it isn't at all ready to be called a beta version either. One should remember that HiTech gets is Software QA for free by doing these so called "beta" runs. Otherwise he would have to hire a dozen of us and pay us money for this work.
Are you kidding me - By not hiring people to beta test, they are affectively keeping the costs down, not having to charge more money to us the end users. They are also able to give us a sneak peak at what is coming. Something every one wanted.
Originally posted by OLtos
But, as a Software Quality Assurance engineer I can tell you up front that calling this version a beta quality release is a joke. This new flight engine is mostly unplayable to this tester. And you can read unplayable as stinky if you want to. Depending on my mood I would.
A "Software Quality Assurance engineer" Why would you show your ignorance like this. This is a beta, one that is functional and flyable by people who know how to fly. Obviously you can't do either. Is it perfect no, but then that is what beta is all about. Slapshot put it correctly, maybe you should re-read his post. As a 10 year software Architect/Developer I pitty the development team you work for. The first rule for a QA person is know what you are testing. You obviously have no clue what a plane is actually like to fly in real life, but you profess to know how crappy the beta is, again pretty ignorant. I'm sure your a nice guy and all but your post shows little merit.
Keep trying.
As for keeping this thing easy for the noob, well what next turn off stalls and collisions. cmon. If they really want to learn/experience what it was like to fly WWII circa planes well they have to put in the work. If not they can go play Crimson Skies, that piece o crap is a noob paradise.
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I know the procedure IRL and in AH ... well I think otherwise I'm just dead and it's my ghost who post here ;)
Firewall your throttle IRL (it would be better to do that in your car when in neutral)
Firewall your throttle in AH.
Do you see the difference ?
It's one of the key difference between AH and IRL added to the complete lack of feed back we have in AH, I guess this is the reason AH behave differently as I don't think a real engine react so slowly especially a 1000 hp one (my experience of high power engine is limited to my 210hp car :p).
It won't change the fact that IRL it's not difficult : respect the procedure and all should be ok.
Note that I don't disagree with you about the better feeling B5 has,even if it's up to HT to tune it the way he want.
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a 210 hp citroen? scary. I thought my 120hp 72' opel was bad.
(http://www.georgetown.edu/users/dsk/car.jpg)
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I know the procedure IRL and in AH ... well I think otherwise I'm just dead and it's my ghost who post here
Firewall your throttle IRL (it would be better to do that in your car when in neutral)
Firewall your throttle in AH.
Do you see the difference ?
Yeah the problem is you don't know the procedure if you are saying firewall the throttle on take off. You can hardly compare a plane and a car. If you don't apply the trottle correctly at take off you will have a hard time getting off the ground with the narrow gear planes like the spit, 109 et-al in B5 and thats the way it should be.
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Make the test Mars.
Btw its not a Citroën it's a weird Peugeot ;)
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I thought Peugeot and citroen were the same company these days. Kinda like cadillac and buick.
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Exact , they are in the same group.
But their car have some differences :
the Peugeot is for me and the Citroën is for my father :D
(depending of the model obviouly )
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First time I went to france I had the good fortune of getting to ride in a high end citroen 4 door. Very nice.
Of course I also had to ride through the Massif Central in the smallest model of the same name I had ever seen. Not too fond of heights to begin with.
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Make what test?
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Compare the time you need to go from idle to full power.
In AH it need some 5 seconds (I know the engine had to move propeller and so on) I find it slow.
Perhaps I'm wrong but I do find this strange.
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There is a quick and easy solution to your problem. Don't play the beta. Get it? It's a beeeettttaaa. You are obviously not the type to TEST an early version of a game. Your comments like:
"Can't raise or lower flaps in assorted aircraft."
"Auto-takeoff doesn't work."
"The map is fuzzy. "
Are completely non-specific and help no one. You are like a little baby crying and mommy doesn't know if you need your diaper changes or if you're hungy or what. You are a grown up, right? Then ask for what you want specifically, don't whine and cry in general.
Your last line is a knee slapper:
"Guys, please invest some time in QA. I'm confident you'll do better next time."
Are you suggesting that HTC waste time and money by having someone (or some people) QA non-production code? What is the point of QA'ing something before it is matured and stablized? WE ARE THE QA! Get it? That is the whole point of a Beta release. If you want it better faster, than you can start by submitting usefull, specific comments and bug reports.
By definition a beta game will always suck, as soon as it doesn't suck, it's time to go gold and sell it and make some money. I'd much rather go through 100 sucky Beta's for free than pay money for an official release that wasn't ready yet *cough* lo-mac *cough*
And you say you've done software dev. yourself? Scary...
I wish they had a "dolt" member rating.
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Originally posted by zmeg
Is this another "DOLT" thread?
Yes it is:D
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Your right about not expecting a finished product from a program in beta, and obviously AHII still has a long way to go.
But in general (not just AHII), programs that are not far past the design phase are presented as beta, and the term is pretty much losing its meaning. At one time, beta was a stage where the program was pretty much finished and leftover bugs were being worked out by users pushing the program and trying to crash it. Obviously, its no longer like that and programs that would have been considered in design or alpha stages are presented as beta. So don't be too hard on the people that expect more from beta. The term has a different meaning now. Some accept it (mostly accountants :D), and some don't. Both positions have merit.
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Originally posted by qts
I've played Beta 5 for approx 1 hour and my initial impression is that Beta 5 stinks.
1 GB P4-2400, XP Pro SP1 fully patched, Gf4-4200, DX9, 1024x768@32 bit, Cougar. Behind a Smoothwall firewall.
The clipboard UI has GOT to be improved. In the hangar it almost covers everything when at a usable size. It's very hard to select the fuel.
Very difficult to take off in many aircraft.
Zoom doesn't work but causes screen flashing.
Can't raise or lower flaps in assorted aircraft.
Auto-takeoff doesn't work.
When firing at buildings, I get hit sprites on farmhouses but nothing when attacking buildings on enemy airfields and no damage seems to be taken in either case.
Mouseview won't turn off and is bl**dy annoying when the clipboard is up. Can it be automatically disabled when the clipboard is up?
In the cockpit, parts of the cockpit e.g. the frame, overlay the clipboard.
The map is fuzzy.
I was switching between views and once got a front view with no cockpit. I was unable to repeat this.
Guys, please invest some time in QA. I'm confident you'll do better next time.
qts=DOLT
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1179 posts in 3 months ?
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if i call someone hitler will that make this thread go away?
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Originally posted by Hades55
1179 posts in 3 months ?
Your point TARD:rolleyes:
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My point kid is you are a lot of blah-blah and the worst, you insult people who just
say their opinion. (gts)
Someone must take you from your ear and send you back to mama.
Am i clear ?
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Geez, what's there to fuss about?
HT said it was a bug.
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Originally posted by Hades55
My point kid is you are a lot of blah-blah and the worst, you insult people who just
say their opinion. (gts)
Am i clear ?
FWIW Hades you can take some solace in the fact that he cries like a little girl when the same thing is done to him.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
But in general (not just AHII), programs that are not far past the design phase are presented as beta, and the term is pretty much losing its meaning. At one time, beta was a stage where the program was pretty much finished and leftover bugs were being worked out by users pushing the program and trying to crash it. Obviously, its no longer like that and programs that would have been considered in design or alpha stages are presented as beta. So don't be too hard on the people that expect more from beta. The term has a different meaning now. Some accept it (mostly accountants :D), and some don't. Both positions have merit.
I agree.. the term beta has been greatly distorted over the years.
the companies I've work for follow a different process...
"Beta" is the phase of development that is delivered after a project reaches "code complete"
Code complete is the point in time when all features have been coded - not necessarily working correctly.
No other features will be added to the product, - no changes to the User interface, no "wouldn't it be cool to make it do this!" feature added just before release.
The goal of Beta is to fix all bugs related to coded features and to make the product releasable.
Any software distributed prior to Code Complete is considered "Alpha."
Software distributed to test technological feasibility... such as frame rates, collisions, graphic engines, etc is considered "Prototyping."
Does it matter what the terms mean? No.
In my lexicon of programming terms.. I would consider AHII in the Alpha/prototyping phrase.
It doesn't matter... they'll get it working well...
Just remember in software the real version always end in ".1" :p
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Originally posted by Hades55
My point kid is you are a lot of blah-blah and the worst, you insult people who just
say their opinion. (gts)
Someone must take you from your ear and send you back to mama.
Am i clear ?
LOL another internet tough guy:rofl
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Originally posted by mrblack
LOL another internet tough guy:rofl
I'd say your penchance for name calling puts you in the same category.
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Originally posted by aztec
I'd say your penchance for name calling puts you in the same category.
I could care less what you think TARD
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LOL....it appears i have scored a damaging hit on a critical control surface. People who don't care what others think usually don't go princess on them and start calling names.
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Aztec! ;)
Well it probably doesnt still stink, but I'd like to see something better in a shorter time, thats sure.
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Originally posted by mrblack
I could care less what you think TARD
The expression is "I couldn't care less" :p
You English language TARD ;)
Now be gone with you before I sic the grammar nannies on you!!
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! Gatt, long time no see. :)