Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MC_Honky on December 06, 2003, 04:08:26 PM
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It was bound to happen:
http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=world&cat=iraq
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HAHAHAHAHAHA
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Lesser of two evils.
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Nothing says "liberation" quite like barbed wire.
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It's worked so well in Israel too, a real history of success to follow.
Charon
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Israel's policy's may be only 50% effective, but its better than the alternative - 0%.
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Originally posted by Charon
It's worked so well in Israel too, a real history of success to follow.
Charon
Even the NY Times says it's worked in Iraq, too.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Even the NY Times says it's worked in Iraq, too.
Well that settles it then.
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The British tried it in South Africa in the late 1800s and Malaysia in the 1950s (they were called 'new villiages') they worked to a limited extent, but were not too effective. All it did was to alienate the local populace.
Ravs
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How about German strategy against partisans in Slavic countries in WW2 ? For every wounded German, shoot 50 locals. For every killed German shoot 100 locals.
Nothing works better in alienating local population.
But barbed wire and ID cards are a good start.
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Best Part is:
"This fence is here for your protection," reads the sign posted in front of the barbed-wire fence. "Do not approach or try to cross, or you will be shot."
Lol...no wonder why the world hates us.
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I don't!
Ravs
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Best Part is:
"This fence is here for your protection," reads the sign posted in front of the barbed-wire fence. "Do not approach or try to cross, or you will be shot."
Lol...no wonder why the world hates us.
Just think, all they have to do is turn over the guys shooting at the troops and it will all be over.
the world doesn't hate "us". Just you.
Colonel Sassaman is feared by many of Abu Hishma's villagers, who hold him responsible for the searches and razor wire around the town. But some said they understood what a difficult job he had, trying to pick out a few bad men from a village of 7,000 people.
"Colonel Sassaman, you should come and live in this village and be a sheik," Hassan Ali al-Tai told the colonel outside the checkpoint.
The colonel smiled, and Mr. Tai turned to another visitor.
"Colonel Sassaman is a very good man," he said. "If he got rid of the barbed wire and the checkpoint, everyone would love him."
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And if that happened in America, what would your reaction be, Martlett?
Why, of course you'd turn over the shooters to the people who put up the barbed wire.
Martlett, it is only when you have lived under the occupation of foreigners (whether they mean good or ill) will you understand. I'm very happy you have not had to live through that situation, but when we were under the japs in WW2 in Malaysia, and then the Brits, we wanted out.
Now, I agree that Iraq would descend into chaos if the allies pulled out, but barbed wire is not the way to achieve a stable situation.
Ravs
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I wish I were a military genius too, so I could tell the army how stupid they're being.
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The tragedy of history is that it just repeats itself. Let's see how it all pans out before we make any hasty judgments.
Ravs
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btw, SOB, I should have added a humble 'IMO' in my post before last.
Of course the military know more than I do in situations like this. (not said sarcastically)
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
btw, SOB, I should have added a humble 'IMO' in my post before last.
Of course the military know more than I do in situations like this. (not said sarcastically)
Ravs
Your post didn't strike me as anything other than an opinion, Ravells. IMO wasn't needed there, IMO. I was commenting on the thread in general.
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So far, the new approach appears to be succeeding in diminishing the threat to American soldiers. But it appears to be coming at the cost of alienating many of the people the Americans are trying to win over. Abu Hishma is quiet now, but it is angry, too...
The Iraqis nodded and edged their cars through the line. Over to one side, an Iraqi man named Tariq muttered in anger.
"I see no difference between us and the Palestinians," he said. "We didn't expect anything like this after Saddam fell."
As long as we can deliver on the positive rebuilding, sure. If we fail, or stuble or are too slow, then this just becomes an excellent tool to turn moderates into militants. At some point the Iraqi's have to actually believe that we are not just another occupying power, that the cure is not as bad as the illness, and I would imagine that we don't have an unlimited amount of time to deliver the goods.
Charon
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Originally posted by Hristo
How about German strategy against partisans in Slavic countries in WW2 ? For every wounded German, shoot 50 locals. For every killed German shoot 100 locals.
I agree. If one's goal is not important enough to justify such actions, then it's probably not important enough to justify military action. Soldiers are for killing. If we are trying to use them for things other than killing then we are making a big mistake.
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Originally posted by ravells
Martlett, it is only when you have lived under the occupation of foreigners (whether they mean good or ill) will you understand. I'm very happy you have not had to live through that situation, but when we were under the japs in WW2 in Malaysia, and then the Brits, we wanted out.
You lived under the japs in ww2? How old are you?
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I agree. If one's goal is not important enough to justify such actions, then it's probably not important enough to justify military action. Soldiers are for killing. If we are trying to use them for things other than killing then we are making a big mistake.
What choice would that leave to the moderates ?
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Best Part is:
"This fence is here for your protection," reads the sign posted in front of the barbed-wire fence. "Do not approach or try to cross, or you will be shot."
Lol...no wonder why the world hates us.
The world hates the US? Who else does the "world" hate?
The US is EVIL and always will be EVIL!
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I want to kill all the people that want to kill us.... is that somehow wrong? Lol.
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Originally posted by Hristo
What choice would that leave to the moderates ?
The choice would be to use non-military means unless you are serious enough to kill a whole lot of people. Minimizing civilian casualties just means more of our soldiers get killed, and more time and money is required to do the job.
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I believe they called them "Ghettoes" in thirties and fourties and "homelands" in sixties and seventies :)
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I'm a proud American but this whole Iraq thing is taking us deeper and deeper into the ****ter. I never wanted to "Liberate" the Iraqies but once the shooting started I was hooked to the TV. I found myself jumping up and down cheering the 3rd Infantry Div.- popcorn in hand !!! "Go boys..Kill them Arabs." Now its no fun anymore....
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
I'm a proud American but this whole Iraq thing is taking us deeper and deeper into the ****ter. I never wanted to "Liberate" the Iraqies but once the shooting started I was hooked to the TV. I found myself jumping up and down cheering the 3rd Infantry Div.- popcorn in hand !!! "Go boys..Kill them Arabs." Now its no fun anymore....
Well, I guess that sums up your comprehension.
Knowing that you equate a war with the Saturday morning cartoons puts everything else you've ever written into perspective.
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Funked, if the killing starts as you suggested, how could anyone consider this a liberation ? You won't have peace there in thousand years, until US troops leave. And it is my understanding there will be no peace now, until US troops leave the country.
If you have to use barbed wire, threats, ID cards and checkpoints to stay there, what does that make you in their eyes ?
US troops are already considered aggressors over there. No ? What do you think, what would happen to a single US soldier who decides to go take a walk unarmed in downtown (insert any Iraqi city here) ?
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You lived under the japs in ww2? How old are you?
We = Malaysians.
Ravs
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Its not like I see a slant on this story....I can just imagine the reporter:
Reporter: "sir this is michale evens with yahoo news can you answer us some questions?"
Army Officer: "Yahoo has reporters.....since when?"
Reporter: "Seriously sir, could you answer some questions from me so our Yahoo listeners can hear what is goin on here?"
Army Officer: "do the storys begin with YAAAAHOOOOOO?"
Reporter: "I'm trying to get somone to take me seriously I want to know about this fence:
Army Officer: "I suppose your having a hard time being taken seriously working for a place like Yahoo."
I could go on but i"m tired and what the hell its a lame story anyways
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Hm, Americans are locking up the relatives of suspected resistance fighters?
This is very un-American I find. Imagine if your estranged brother was speeding and you got the ticket.
That's just not right.
Other than that; the situation in Iraq is better now than I feared it'd be a month ago. It is doable.
Oh, a pet peeve of mine: it's not supposed to be pronounced is'real or some derivative thereof. And it's spelled "Israel. The Untied Staets of Amreika and Knigdmo of Dnemark are in union with the zheinitik Iisrealialites.
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Originally posted by Hristo
For every wounded German, shoot 50 locals. For every killed German shoot 100 locals.
Dam I like the sound of this:aok
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Originally posted by mrblack
Dam I like the sound of this:aok
Oh great....we have an idiot who thinks emultating fascist war criminals is good foreign policy.
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Originally posted by ravells
We = Malaysians.
Ravs
Well, in that case, I do understand. "We" lived under the occupation of England for hundreds of years. Hence proving my point.
"We"=Scottish
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Well, in that case, I do understand. "We" lived under the occupation of England for hundreds of years. Hence proving my point.
"We"=Scottish
This just in, Braveheart. Scotland is so 'occupied' it became part of a new union centuries ago, a union that was way lopsided in terms of population. It hardly became 'unoccupied', unlike India for instance or Malaysia under the Japs.
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Originally posted by Dowding
This just in, Braveheart. Scotland is so 'occupied' it became part of a new union centuries ago, a union that was way lopsided in terms of population. It hardly became 'unoccupied', unlike India for instance or Malaysia under the Japs.
Regardless, moron, you missed the point. Let me put it at a comprehension level you may understand.
He lived under another's occupation no more than I did, you did, or Bubba down the street did.
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Originally posted by Hristo
How about German strategy against partisans in Slavic countries in WW2 ? For every wounded German, shoot 50 locals. For every killed German shoot 100 locals.
Nothing works better in alienating local population.
But barbed wire and ID cards are a good start.
yup thats more less true....
and we should not forget, that german went to Slavic countries to free them from 'evil' jewish and bring freedom to smaller that small population of german or german lovers.
and you can be pretty sure, that here was a lot of people whitch supported german (hitler) and zillion of people welcome them with nazi flags... ... yeah yeah ....
we should not comapre Bush to Hitler, coz Hitler were much more successful
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Originally posted by StSanta
Other than that; the situation in Iraq is better now than I feared it'd be a month ago. It is doable.
im not sure if is it somehow better.
well 30 attacks +-10 a days is already normal,
5 dead occupation soldiers a week is also normal
so media just do not speak about same stuff
hard to say if is it better, go ask iraqm they will tel you
one of them will tell you that he is so glad, coz he can listen rock n`roll
and second gonna tell you that US sux, coz they bring chaos into life of normal people....
what made you think, that situation is already better ?
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Originally posted by NUKE
I want to kill all the people that want to kill us.... is that somehow wrong? Lol.
no its not wrong... and dont forget to eat them as well, coz they would like to eat your corps as well
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Originally posted by Hristo
Funked, if the killing starts as you suggested, how could anyone consider this a liberation ? You won't have peace there in thousand years, until US troops leave. And it is my understanding there will be no peace now, until US troops leave the country.
If you have to use barbed wire, threats, ID cards and checkpoints to stay there, what does that make you in their eyes ?
US troops are already considered aggressors over there. No ? What do you think, what would happen to a single US soldier who decides to go take a walk unarmed in downtown (insert any Iraqi city here) ?
Hristo I think we have a language barrier. What I was trying to say is that armies should be used for killing, not as police.
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Originally posted by StSanta
Hm, Americans are locking up the relatives of suspected resistance fighters?
This is very un-American I find. Imagine if your estranged brother was speeding and you got the ticket.
That's just not right.
well my friend and his wife got job in US 2 years ago.
They had signed contracts with company for 5 years and everything was quite fine
they never ever were arested or guildy of any crime in any country
but sister of his wife went to US as tourist and she did stay there for few years.
Ok so my friend and his wife did apply for working visa, they had contract, they had flat from company, they had everything all right, both of them speak fluent english and they didnt get working permision, because sister of his wife did stay there 2 years before.
They kicked them home, kept their 300 USD for applience.
So lawyer from US company had to came to here, he went with them to US embasy, he was whinning about 1 hour and then they got those Visa
so its not nothing new, that american do avenge on family members... its quite normal here...
if someone from my family will run there, they will no even give me tourist visa for 14 days nor working visa, even with invitation from company and signed contract.
so Santa im not surprised
ps.: nazi did same during the WW2.. but we shoulnt spaek about it pssst :D
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Thanks braveheart. It's a shame you miss MY point though. Not only is your Scottish example nothing like ravell's Japanese occupation in either duration or outcome, he still hasn't given you an exact answer either way as to whether he lived under the Japanese. Your smug 'QED' is hardly warranted.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Hristo I think we have a language barrier. What I was trying to say is that armies should be used for killing, not as police.
correct me but army should be use for defence country
defence is not same as killing
killing dosnt specify if you defend or occupy......
ohh dam i forget that there is nothing wrong about occupation...
dammm im so stupid
:D
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Originally posted by Dowding
Thanks braveheart. It's a shame you miss MY point though. Not only is your Scottish example nothing like ravell's Japanese occupation in either duration or outcome, he still hasn't given you an exact answer either way as to whether he lived under the Japanese. Your smug 'QED' is hardly warranted.
You didn't make a point, moron. The "smug QED" is spot on. You probably wouldn't understand that, though.
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For you, the smug QED is a sig-line. I'm surprised you don't title all your posts "Martlet, the Great American speaketh henceforth with...".
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Originally posted by Dowding
For you, the smug QED is a sig-line. I'm surprised you don't title all your posts "Martlet, the Great American speaketh henceforth with...".
Nah, this is my sig line:
Originally posted by Dowding
I am gay...
I can't hide it any longer. I hope you won't think bad of me. I've known it for a while, ever since I bought that 'Greatest Hits of Barbara Streisand' CD.
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"Oooooooh.... get her!!!!!!"
(http://gifts-pontier.com/bg-014pl.jpg)
Your originality is breathtaking.
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Originally posted by Dowding
"Oooooooh.... get her!!!!!!"
(http://gifts-pontier.com/bg-014pl.jpg)
Your originality is breathtaking.
Originality? Since when are quotes supposed to be original? What's the matter, your BS cd scratched?
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Originally posted by GScholz
Don't even bother with him Dowding, it's a waste of time. Martlet has proven himself to be merely an annoyance on this BBS. Nothing more.
That's funny. Whenever a bleeding heart liberal can't defend his position, it's always because he "can't be bothered" or the other person "isn't worth it".
Of course, it's plain to everyone else it's really because they don't know what the heck they're talking about.
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Originally posted by GScholz
See what I mean Dowding?
I see what I mean.
I also see that this this thread was dead until you brought it back up. You should have left it that way, instead of proving my point.
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Martlett: I was not born when the japs occupied Malaysia, but my parents lived under it. My dad, at the age of 12 had to work in a factory producing stuff for the jap war effort. (Until said factory was levelled by B24s - lucky the air-raid siren was working that day). The japanese occupation remains in the collective consciousness of most Malaysians because it was a recent event.
I took it that you were an American and not a Scot. Amercia has never been occupied, as far as I know.
Ravs
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The South was occupied by Yankee's and CarpetBaggers.
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Originally posted by ravells
Martlett: I was not born when the japs occupied Malaysia, but my parents lived under it. My dad, at the age of 12 had to work in a factory producing stuff for the jap war effort. (Until said factory was levelled by B24s - lucky the air-raid siren was working that day). The japanese occupation remains in the collective consciousness of most Malaysians because it was a recent event.
I took it that you were an American and not a Scot. Amercia has never been occupied, as far as I know.
Ravs
The north is still occupied by Canadians.
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Only cause we kicked yur sorry arses in 1812 Mart :D