Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Westy on December 09, 1999, 01:53:00 PM
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I am now in favour of removing icons completely under the right circumstances.
One being that the planes are segragated so that enemies cannot fly the same type.
I do have two questions for someone at HiTech Creations.
First one asks if icons will be programmed into the software to be selectable. In other words in a scenario or historical based arena can they be shut off completely?
And the second questions is can icons in the main arena, where any type of aircraft can meet itself in combat, will icons be set so that if the aircraft it is associated with is behind, in or obscured behind clouds that the icon is not visible?
-Westy
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I can think of a simple way to test the "No Icon Theory".
Bishops fly Axis. Knights fly Allied. Rocks don't fly (This could be a GOOD Permanent plan! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ). Allow players to change teams at any time. Do this for one or two weeks and evaluate the player response.
I don't think voluntary particpation will work, as it crosses too many established boundaries. (flying companionships, squads, favorite plane types, team orientation etc...)
B-17 bombing or C-47 base capture will have to be eliminated, for the test period.
Be doubly prepared for many unrelenting and emotional outbursts. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Mino
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 12-09-1999).]
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I like the idea alot! By George you know that aircraft recognition standards would go up in a hurry. ":^)
JimBear
=VMF111= DevilDogs
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Minitaur.
Like it, lets give it a try.
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Yep... love the idea.
At the times I normally fly its really only a battle between the rooks and bishops anyway.
I think the most knights I've ever seen online has been 2, so we're essentially flying a two sided war.
Lets just make it allied-v-axis and be done with it, at least for a trial period.
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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'
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Bad idea. To test, go to WB HA fly around for an hour trying to find a fight. After you fall asleep, some one will eventully come along to kill you . then come back and enjoy the icons the way they are
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Yes, nothing like a big 200 ft neon sign over the enemy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) and personaly can't wait for a Historical Arena here.
I love sneaking up on some poor guy's low six and pumping a good 2 sec cannon burst into him (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I can just see em jumping out of their seats hehe
udie
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In a "no tag" arena you really need a number or squad emblem painted on your plane for your wingman to see, or your time is wasted finding out if it's your wingman that is next to you. RW helps cause you can ID your wingman with the rocking of his wings but that's such a pain. Give us a nice number or letter ID painted(no icon)on side & wing of plane.......cool!
Thorns_Musketeer
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TT, but isn't part of the problem that you describe is that there is next to no one IN the HA in 'brand W' anyway?
I do have to admit that the radar in FA helped me vector towards enemy contacts.
But it is a smal 1"x1" box that only shows you a blip(s) and in that was it really only helps you head in the right direction. It is no help when you are within a mile or two because you have to rely on the Mark One eyeball heavily.
-Westy
-Westy
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Westy- Westy-:
Yes, population was the brand W HA nemesis.
Jekyll-
Until we have more plane selection it would not be very much fun for the LW to be bound to the Axis vs. Allied format. Of course the Allies would love it, but if you think Hristo, Fishu, and ik are loud now... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Westy. You make my point for me. There is next to no one in the HA. And there will be next to no one in AH if the icons disappear. Its no skin off my nose, if they set up an HA in AH. But why use resources on an idea that has already failed.
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TT;
I have to agree with you, I do not believe it would work either. Until you do try though, you never know for sure.
It certainly would be a new experience. It might also take me at least one week, just be accustomed to "No Icons". Certainly it will be much harder for the person who has just tried AH for the first time.
I don't think HTC is going to do it anyways. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Mino
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I previously asked about this before and suggested that icons come on at much lower range (say 1k or 2k) or only on friendlies. Now with radar vectors and other aids and the inevidible stacking around fields should be easy enough to find targets but would allow for a little more "surprise".
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SimGuild has their upcoming online sim Battle of Britain in beta test.
www.dogfighter.com (http://www.dogfighter.com) has an article on the game. The FM seems to be pretty arcade, clearly directed to the mass market. It is still in beta though.
But what caught my attention is that their icon system definately has some new ideas:
"What Simguild has done is to introduce a uniform colour for all icons (what a concept! Identifying planes by their shape and colour!) and furthermore only made them appear at close range. The only data presented is player ID and the icons begin as almost transparent, becoming more and more visible as the range closes.
This icon system is close to masterful: friend or foe has to be determined by such factors as number of engines, flashes of paint colour (the yellow under the nose of a Bf-109, for instance), shape of the wings and finally, when up close and personal, crosses or roundels… no plane type is given, nor are there range numbers that count up or down.
Part of the reason Simguild can adopt this system is another undoubted highlight: a historical setting. This is yet another factor that I find so crucial to immersion -- flying Spitfires against Spitfires has never been appealing to me, nor Messerschmitts versus Heinkels because it destroys the fantasy of being in real combat of the era. By squarely positioning Battle of Britain in a historical setting, as its title implies, Simguild has done wonders for the genre. "
The color and visibily change of the icons sounds like a very nice idea to me, and I'd like to see that in AH also.
Read the whole story at: http://www.dogfighter.com/reviews/show.php3?review=944249295 (http://www.dogfighter.com/reviews/show.php3?review=944249295)
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
[This message has been edited by LLv34_Camouflage (edited 12-10-1999).]
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TT. I've never flown WB's online.
I just figured when you see so many people
verball about having reality in thier planes be it fuel/prop/engine management - heck right down to the correct oleo colour on an aircrafts landing gear - that some would want to try this out.
This being AH and not WB's (or AW) I figured many people wanted to fly in a realistic environment.
And I'd be the last to want to take away icons completely. I was just saying I saw what it was like and I liked it.
But you are right in that many would not.
Particularly the brand "W" crowd who, not to be shmamry here but I cannot resist, hold up thier sims ultra realism like a banner but in practice they do not practice what they preach.
As for cutting down the range. I've seen that and what you end up having is "Star Trek" icons as they warp in and out in your view. They strobe all around you do to the net lag to the point it makes the flying feel
very unreal.
Of course it should be tried out though as AH may have it in the program a good enough smoothing code to effectively counter act that.
-Westy
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I don't think the WBs crowd necessarily had a problem with the reduced icon range in the HA arena. It's just hard to get any new arena going. You have always had the best chance of finding your friends and a good fight in the main arena. Also, the best sim pilots typically flew in HA which had to make it intimidating to everyone else. BTW, I think that's somewhat of a problem here in AH. Most of the sim pilots I fight against here are good. I haven't seen to many newbies. I don't think the reduced icon range would be a problem if it was done in the main arena. I don't think the resolution is good enough to get rid of them all together. The SimGuild system sounded pretty good. A variation on that might work well here. I say throw it out there, it's a BETA, lets see how people react.
MG
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Is it just me (could be the fact that I'm at 800x600) or would it be impossible to do a VID (Visual ID) on a plane that is over 1k away?
I know fighter pilots can VID as far as 3-5nm, and exceptional pilots can spot planes at about 15nm (Yeager could) Tell me how you can VID a 3x3 pixel at 4k feet (about a mile+)
I just don't think the graphics have enough resolution to make an accurate VID of a unknown or a friendly.
If HTC decides to remove icons, I hope they only remove the enemy icons, that way you know that dot isn't one of your wingmen. It seems real to me to see the wingman icon on, because in real life, they had radios and procedures to ascertain friendly aircraft..especially your wingmen.
A total removal of icons is going to cause more problems than it will solve. Removal of the enemy icons seems the right thing to do, IMHO.
Shepard
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is nm nautical miles ?
if so 3-5 is pretty impressive but 15
how did he manage to id planes 3x-5x futher away than other pilots ?
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One word....."ZOOM". Use the zoom function to ID planes. Reduce ICONs to appearing very close and then only plane type. I do like the idea of the transparent ICON turning more opaque as you get close though.
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William "RasRow" Behrens <TSM>
aka: "ou812" and "Chiggy Von Richtoffen"
"Abandon all hope"
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15 miles?
FIFTEEN MILES!
I call bulltoejam
Perhaps intuition/luck/maybe a really good guess.
The plane dots were really well done in WB most were very distinctive and you could usually tell nme from friend at long range in the HA with practice by the color flash/twinkle. Tho I often mistook the 262 for allied for some reason.