Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sandman on December 08, 2003, 06:01:52 PM

Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Sandman on December 08, 2003, 06:01:52 PM
Hmmmm....

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/031215/usnews/15terror.htm
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: JB73 on December 08, 2003, 06:09:23 PM
dude that's a TEN page article..

i'll just wait till ripsnort copy's and pastes the highlights.

then ill read all you guys have to say and ponder where most get their ideas from.

i wont post anything revelant (since as stated in other posts i don't reply to political and religious threads and the like)

one day all the pent up rage from reading the mindless drivel i see everyday throughout the world will burst at the seams and i will become muckmaw!

oh well my 2¢
or another lame thought by yours truly
or just another post to be ignored
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Gunthr on December 08, 2003, 06:50:44 PM
Ahh, this really sucks. Its like we've had no clue...
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Lance on December 08, 2003, 07:06:46 PM
Quote
Although they called themselves private foundations, these were not charities in the sense that Americans understand the term. The Muslim World League and the IIRO, for example, are overseen by the grand mufti of Saudi Arabia, the kingdom's highest religious authority. They receive substantial funds from the government and members of the royal family and make use of the Islamic affairs offices of Saudi embassies abroad. The Muslim World League's current secretary general, Abdullah Al-Turki, served as the kingdom's minister of Islamic affairs for six years. "The Muslim World League, which is the mother of IIRO, is a fully government-funded organization," the IIRO's Canadian head testified in a 1999 court case. "In other words, I work for the government of Saudi Arabia."


Quote
U.S. intelligence agencies, meanwhile, were picking up disturbing "chatter" out of Saudi Arabia. Electronic intercepts of conversations implicated members of the royal family in backing not only al Qaeda but also other terrorist groups, several intelligence sources confirmed to U.S. News. None were senior officials--the royal family has some 7,000 members. But several intercepts implicated some of the country's wealthiest businessmen. "It was not definitive but still very disturbing," says a senior U.S. official. "That was the year we had to admit the Saudis were a problem."


Interested in debating whether or not the Saudi Arabian government and/or royal family could have funded 9/11 again, Rip?  Or are you still so enraptured with the idea of cheap gas that you don't care?
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Ripsnort on December 08, 2003, 07:44:05 PM
*yawn*....
Would you and your liberal college friends support an invasion of S.A.? Prolly not...now why do you think your friend Bill didn't do a damn thing? huh? ;) Ching Ching.

Like I said in earlier conversations, its GOOD to have a foothold in the middle east, like a neighborhood watch dog.  You've yet to figure that out yet Lance.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Raubvogel on December 08, 2003, 08:02:24 PM
*This just in* The Saudi's are not our friends. They tolerate our existence there because it serves their purpose as well as ours. I think they'd rather just be rid of us. But no worries, there are other more liberal countries in the region who are happy to soak up our dollars...Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar come to mind.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Lance on December 08, 2003, 08:57:03 PM
Heh, just as I suspected, you are more interested in cheap gas for your beamer than you are getting to the bottom of who actually funded the 9/11 attacks.  

As for your question regarding support of an invasion of SA, I dunno, Rip.  The evidence regarding their involvement in 9/11 is suppressed.  I'd have to see that before I could say whether or not I'd support an invasion.  Now, why do you think this administration squelched that? Ding dong?
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Gunslinger on December 08, 2003, 09:15:45 PM
didnt howard dean get to the bottom of 9/11.  He said "Bush let it happen"  in fact I think that is the basis for his campaign.  If Howard Dean said it, it has to be true
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Tumor on December 08, 2003, 11:41:36 PM
Think the Muslim world has problems with the U.S. now?  Sure, go right ahead and invade S.A. lol
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: kbman on December 09, 2003, 12:57:31 AM
When your only tool is a hammer all of your problems start to look like nails.

kbman
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: SLO on December 09, 2003, 08:04:24 AM
you had troops near MECCA....thats an insult to the MUSLIMS.

be fun havin Muslim troops near the VATICAN :aok
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: lazs2 on December 09, 2003, 08:08:46 AM
Unleaded premium was $1.65 a gallon.   today..  filled the El Caminio and did a big burnout getting on the freeway.

isn't the vatican in italy or somethin?

lazs
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: GRUNHERZ on December 09, 2003, 08:19:09 AM
No war for oil!!!!  
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: muckmaw on December 09, 2003, 08:23:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB73

one day all the pent up rage from reading the mindless drivel i see everyday throughout the world will burst at the seams and i will become muckmaw!



COOL!

I did'nt think anyone even noticed me here!

Apparently, I'm known for some personality trait, but I'm not sure what it is.

So if some one is acting like me, can we cay they're all "Mucked up?"

hehe.

An invasion of SA is a very scary prospect. Now, I was all for going after Hussein, but SA is a different nut. The financing they provide is at the heart of terror. But imagine if you will the outrage, and terror attacks we would face if we had boys from Arkansas pitching tents in Mecca and Medina.

The answer in my terribly uneducated opinion is to destroy their economy. Fuel Cells, alternative energy, fuel efficient cars.

The day is coming, but Big oil is fighting us every step of the way.

Exxon Mobil had just as big a hand in 9/11 as any Saudi Financier. They've known for years these people are unstable, and could become a problem, yet they've blocked every attempt at alternative energy to pad their own pockets.

(This has been a Muckmaw Moment)
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Dowding on December 09, 2003, 08:25:51 AM
Quote
Exxon Mobil had just as big a hand in 9/11 as any Saudi Financier.


lol! Are you serious? I wasn't aware of oil companies giving direct aid to terrorists, but maybe you know different.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: rpm on December 09, 2003, 08:40:03 AM
Saudi's involved with terrorists? How shocking! Weren't 8 or 9 of the 9/11 terrorist Saudi's?
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: muckmaw on December 09, 2003, 08:41:10 AM
Where do these Saudi contributors get their money?

Who's most afraid and most against the development of alternative energy?

Do you honestly believe that with all the technological advances we've made over the past 100 + years, we could not develop an alternative fuel source?

Here's another one for you to chew on. Remember the American Trolley car system? You might not, but basically it was a system of one car above ground electric trains that shared the street with automobiles. They exist as a tourist attraction in one city in america now, San Francisco. There was a time, about 80 years ago where they were the primary form of tranportation in the US.

Do you know who bought up, and dimantled these Trolley car companies? Standard Oil and Goodyear tire using shell companies.

In some cities, the tracks for trolleys were pulled up overnight.

The bottom line is, big oil does not want alternative energy. They've moved to block it in the past and will continue to do so. They help propogate our dependance on saudi oil and the continued funding Saudi provides to terrorism.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: lazs2 on December 09, 2003, 08:42:56 AM
If we invaded saudi.... how much would unleaded preium be a gallon?

lazs
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: rpm on December 09, 2003, 08:49:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
If we invaded saudi.... how much would unleaded preium be a gallon?

lazs


about $10. OPEC would cut us off their teat.

I remember seeing a guy on 60 Minuites in the 70's. He developed a new carburator. Drove a big 4 door Ford from Dallas to St. Louis on 5 gallons of gas with the 60 Minuites guy in the car with him. Wonder who bought and buried that patent?
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Dowding on December 09, 2003, 08:56:57 AM
Quote
The bottom line is, big oil does not want alternative energy. They've moved to block it in the past and will continue to do so. They help propogate our dependance on saudi oil and the continued funding Saudi provides to terrorism.


Re-adjust your tin hat. And what do you see the US government's role in all this? Do you think it doesn't help prop up a pro-West government, despite it being undemocratic, inhumane and contrary to any standard of Western civilisation? What about the huge arms contracts that the US and UK arms industries hungrily consume each year from the Saudis?

There are three factors at play in the Mid-East when it comes to western foreign policy, as far as I can see:

1) The desire to have strategic influence over the major oil producing centres

2) The desire to have an outlet for lush new military technologies to boost the economies of the West

3) The need to protect Israel
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: muckmaw on December 09, 2003, 09:11:59 AM
The U.S. govenment is at the mercy of the lobbyists of Big Business.

What else is new?

Who ever said any govenment had clean hands?
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Yeager on December 09, 2003, 01:25:54 PM
There are good saudis and there are bad saudis.  Kill the bad ones first.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: FUNKED1 on December 09, 2003, 01:30:14 PM
We can't invade all these countries.  Too expensive.  Why not just start assassinating the bad people, regardless of who and where they are, like Mossad?
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: lord dolf vader on December 09, 2003, 03:07:27 PM
because we will be hated and killed on sight like massad out of america or israel.

you wanna be a roman be ready for the barbarians to take over.

part of the territory.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Tarmac on December 09, 2003, 03:17:17 PM
Muck's got it spot on.  Alternative fuels are the way to get the Saudis.  

Give us a Space Race or a Manhattan Project to develop alternative energy.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: FUNKED1 on December 09, 2003, 04:18:42 PM
Yes, socialism is the answer comrade.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Tarmac on December 09, 2003, 04:40:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Yes, socialism is the answer comrade.


We've already got it, might as well have it do something useful since it's probably not going anywhere.  

The private sector isn't doing it; the oil companies are the only ones with the interest and the capital to try.  They're perfectly happy right now.    

I see fuel cells as a national security issue.  Dependence on anything foreign (especially from hostile foreigners) to fuel our military (and economy, for that matter) is a bad idea.  The ANWR should be for emergencies; like when we get cut off and need something to hold us over until we can get our alternative energy up and running.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: FUNKED1 on December 09, 2003, 04:47:58 PM
The problem with politicians making technology decisions is this:  What if they choose a suboptimal technology?  Imagine if in the infancy of the petroleum industry, the government had spent zillions on whale oil technology and forced people to use it.  Or if they had dictated we use steam engines instead of gasoline/diesel engines.  Rubber band powered cars instead of internal combustion.  Our economy never would have become so prosperous.  More like a 3rd world country.  Better to let market competition find the most cost effective energy source and the optimal technology to convert it into useful work.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Tarmac on December 09, 2003, 04:56:47 PM
True, but why not make it a government priority to find alternative energy (of any kind)?  I didn't mean to imply that only included fuel cells.  

I envision it as basically being a defense bid.  We want a fuel source to power, say, automobiles.  Private companies make bids, the govt issues funding grants or contracts, then picks one or two to pursue at the end.  No different from saying "we want a fighter that can equip all branches of the military, has possible VTOL abilities, and is cheap."

The research funding would still go to the private sector, and hopefully only the best technology would emerge.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: FUNKED1 on December 09, 2003, 05:58:44 PM
I dunno, I wouldn't want to be the one writing that spec.  It would be a field day for profiteers.

How about this one:  Bring all the troops home, use the resultant "peace dividend" to balance the budget while reducing taxes, let petroleum prices rise to their natural level, and let the market take care of the alternative fuel technology development.  If the ragheads keep causing problems, we use the low budget methods I mentioned above.  If the Euros whine we remind them of the alternative.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Tarmac on December 09, 2003, 06:07:58 PM
Heh, I'd support either of our plans.  Neither is likely to happen though.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: FUNKED1 on December 09, 2003, 06:10:06 PM
Make it happen:  http://www.lp.org
As long as we don't believe it will happen, it won't happen.  Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Tarmac on December 09, 2003, 06:11:49 PM
Doing an independent study project on the LP next semester.  :)

It's always looked promising to me, now I want to be a bit more educated about it.  I'll let you know what I come back with.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: FUNKED1 on December 09, 2003, 06:12:55 PM
They aren't perfect, but compared to the current Coke vs. Pepsi voting choices, they look pretty good.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Tarmac on December 09, 2003, 06:17:37 PM
My thoughts exactly.  My interest has been kicked up by a professor here at MSU in an American history class.  She's really piqued my interest in the Constitution, States' rights, and the anti-federalist side of the founding fathers' debate.  Not that I wasn't interested before, but now I've got a lot more ammunition to support what I've always felt in my gut.  

Whodathunkit?  A professor at a public university turns me libertarian?  :D
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: SirLoin on December 10, 2003, 05:10:56 AM
I said it before so here goes again....USA should have invaded Saudi Arabia and Pakistan..Not Iraq.

War on terrorism..Remember???
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Lance on December 10, 2003, 07:32:28 AM
Funked, you have my vote in 2004.  Though I still don't think we want to pull out of Iraq too quickly.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: muckmaw on December 10, 2003, 07:36:56 AM
Welcome to the Official Web Site of the

The Libertarian Party is committed to America's heritage of freedom:
   individual liberty and personal responsibility
   a free-market economy of abundance and prosperity
   a foreign policy of non-intervention, peace, and free trade.
We welcome your participation and support.
Please join us!


That's nice, Funked.
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: GRUNHERZ on December 10, 2003, 07:40:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw

   a foreign policy of non-intervention, peace


This has worked wonders in the past...
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on December 10, 2003, 07:50:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by kbman
When your only tool is a hammer all of your problems start to look like nails.

kbman


makes a note of quote....
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: SLO on December 10, 2003, 08:20:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm371
Saudi's involved with terrorists? How shocking! Weren't 8 or 9 of the 9/11 terrorist Saudi's?



more like 15 out of the 19....:eek:
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: kappa on December 10, 2003, 09:02:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
Where do these Saudi contributors get their money?

Who's most afraid and most against the development of alternative energy?

Do you honestly believe that with all the technological advances we've made over the past 100 + years, we could not develop an alternative fuel source?

The bottom line is, big oil does not want alternative energy. They've moved to block it in the past and will continue to do so. They help propogate our dependance on saudi oil and the continued funding Saudi provides to terrorism.


Muck, do you support our president and still have these same feelings about 'Big Oil'??  If so, how?? Our president IS big oil...

k
AoM
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: kappa on December 10, 2003, 09:04:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
We can't invade all these countries.  Too expensive.  Why not just start assassinating the bad people, regardless of who and where they are, like Mossad?


Because each one assassinated would equal two more zealots lookin to bomb something...

something about violence begets violence?? (sp)

k
AoM
Title: The Saudi Connection
Post by: Ping on December 10, 2003, 02:00:07 PM
Yep all the Evidence long before Iraq was invaded pointed to SA being the bigger threat, But you can't invade your friends and allies now can you.
Politics are sickening.