Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sparks on December 09, 2003, 12:02:26 PM
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So I've read through another fluffs vs Strat thread ..... Heres my take on it.
First before anyone has to go look I'll put my hand up to being in Lazs words " a talentless toolshed battler". Been playing nearly 4 years and only been under 1000 rank once I think.
Ok so I'm just a bloke who plays an online game for fun and isn't that good at it but hey no-one has seemed to care.
Now we appear to be having an elite gruop of "fighter aces" who want to set themselves above all others.
And as usual it comes out in these Strat threads.
Lazs' gesture to politcal correctness:-muck and lepaul... it is u who are advocating animosity between the fighters and the fluffers not I..
Well lets see if that holds true through the same thread.Originally quoted by Lazs
1.…..the talentless mouse weilders……..
2.…..their sad little lives…….
3.…..talentless fluffer milkrunners…..
4.…..talentless and attention starved…..
5.…..while the "strat" sis.. er, guys …..
6.…..and I can't imagine what type would enjoy them but….
7.…..talentless mouse weilder managed to milkrun all the hangers……
8. the furballers could ignore the strat guys if they didn't care who won the war and the HTC Hawiian vaction that goes along with that. those who wished to win the war could ignore the furballers areas and battle toolsheds or like minded "chessmasters of the sky" much backslapping and "we kicked your butt" BB posts could be generated.
9. there are only two sides.. anyone who kills toolsheds and those that fight other players.
Ah I seee :rolleyes:
And then the add ons e.g.From Toad :-
Lotta truth here for the strat guys to try to accept, except they never seem to "get it".
The players in this game are being divided by this crap and I personally am getting sick of it. Just because your chosen style of play is dogfighting does not give the moral high ground to call other people "sad" and "talentless". What kind of self obsessed person spews this crap ??
Let me remind people of something on the front HTC page
Advanced flight modeling of over 50 different aircraft from 6 countries. Fighter, bomber, attack, cargo, carrier, and even jet aircraft are all represented.
A wide variety of combat options lets you man tanks, halftracks, flakpanzers, amtracks, amtanks, PT boats, destroyers, cruisers, carriers, coastal batteries, and anti-aircraft guns.
A comprehensive mission planner lets you organize or join other players to accomplish strategic goals.
Thats what I'm looking for and what I pay my subscription for - not pure one on one dogfighting - a full strategic GAME involving all players in the arena based heavily on air combat and power. I believe there are ways to do it which I've set out before in previous threads so that you can log in for an hour and have fun. At the moment however the elite cuacus seem to have the ear of HTC and the main arena IMHO is being steered toward the DA style.
HTC need to make some kind of renewed statement on which way this game is going to go - especially in view of AH2 now coming to fruition and how that game is going to compare to the current game.
There are thousands of players registered in this game - not all are out and out fighter players with perfect hand eye coordination and judgement. We talentless majority still have a right to play the game advertised and paid for without the ridicule of those who consider themselves superior - maybe THATS the truth that really needs to be recognised.
Wade in boys ..............
Sparks
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Sparks-
Lazs thrives on posts like this. You see, he tosses the little insults or barbs in an effort to get a reaction such as this.
Why he does this, I have no idea, but he seems to have developed quite a following of Lazs-clones.
They seem to jockey for position of greatest instigator, and at times, the race is rather close.
You have to understand Lazs. You see, to him, the BBS is a furball as well, and he treats it as such.
Now, I've never personally met the man, but I hear good things about him.
This may seem kinda strange coming from a guy who regularly get called "Fluffer" "Sky accountant" etc, but if you simply ignore the little barbs, it's easier to get to the point of the message.
Good Luck!
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Originally posted by Sparks
There are thousands of players registered in this game - not all are out and out fighter players with perfect hand eye coordination and judgement. We talentless majority still have a right to play the game advertised and paid for without the ridicule of those who consider themselves superior - maybe THATS the truth that really needs to be recognised.
Wade in boys ..............
Sparks
S! Sparks
The question is why HTC allows abuse of all types on their boards. There are a million 'Lazs' out there. It is a mark on this game that they find a home here.
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the main arena IMHO is being steered toward the DA style.
Really? How so?
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Ok... correction....
humorless, talentless mouse weilders.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Lazs is incapable of letting an idea stand on merrit.
MiniD
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Them quirky lil
humorless, talentless mouse weilders.
furballers of AH. :rofl :rofl :aok
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I don't care what you bomb, strafe, auger into, or capture.
I just don't see how the above or any other activity in AH can be fun when those taking part would rather not encounter a human enemy.
I personally would like to see much narrower fronts, where every bit of gound is fought for, not milked.
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Still the bottom line is, furballers dont want to limit strat guys play. As it now stands furballers do not have a map other than fester's where furballing is conducive to furballing.
We don’t want to change or stop the way strat guys play, we just want to be able to furball with people that want to furball, while all the strat guys are dropping bombs and shooting rockets.
As for your attack on laz, if you put your highlights back into the context they were taken from you lose your point. These BBs are full of Aholes like Laz (Sorry Laz lol) and there are as many of them that are strat guys as furballers.
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Good point, Furious.
A narrow front where GV's Duke it out for every yard, Jabo's dive in to attack the GV's, Fighters mix it up with the Jabos and other fighters, while resupply vehicles keep the convoy rolling.
And the whole time, the Heavy Bombers are smashing the infrastructure while being attacked and defended by fighters.
And every enemy/friendly unit you encounter is another person.
Sounds like nirvana.
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Originally posted by Sparks
So I've read through another fluffs vs Strat thread ..... Heres my take on it.
First before anyone has to go look I'll put my hand up to being in Lazs words " a talentless toolshed battler". Been playing nearly 4 years and only been under 1000 rank once I think.
Ok so I'm just a bloke who plays an online game for fun and isn't that good at it but hey no-one has seemed to care.
Now we appear to be having an elite gruop of "fighter aces" who want to set themselves above all others.
And as usual it comes out in these Strat threads.
Lazs' gesture to politcal correctness:-
Well lets see if that holds true through the same thread.
Ah I seee :rolleyes:
And then the add ons e.g.
The players in this game are being divided by this crap and I personally am getting sick of it. Just because your chosen style of play is dogfighting does not give the moral high ground to call other people "sad" and "talentless". What kind of self obsessed person spews this crap ??
Let me remind people of something on the front HTC page
Thats what I'm looking for and what I pay my subscription for - not pure one on one dogfighting - a full strategic GAME involving all players in the arena based heavily on air combat and power. I believe there are ways to do it which I've set out before in previous threads so that you can log in for an hour and have fun. At the moment however the elite cuacus seem to have the ear of HTC and the main arena IMHO is being steered toward the DA style.
HTC need to make some kind of renewed statement on which way this game is going to go - especially in view of AH2 now coming to fruition and how that game is going to compare to the current game.
There are thousands of players registered in this game - not all are out and out fighter players with perfect hand eye coordination and judgement. We talentless majority still have a right to play the game advertised and paid for without the ridicule of those who consider themselves superior - maybe THATS the truth that really needs to be recognised.
Wade in boys ..............
Sparks
Well Sparks, see there`s a reason Liz....... errrrrrrrr Laz a.k.a. Humpy The Wonder Pooch uses such terms as sad, talentless, and attention starved. He is familiar with these terms because those are his characteristics.
He`s just a sad, talentless, attention starved little poochy pup in a land with no fire hydrants and no step stool to reach an ankle. :D
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Good point, Furious.
A narrow front where GV's Duke it out for every yard, Jabo's dive in to attack the GV's, Fighters mix it up with the Jabos and other fighters, while resupply vehicles keep the convoy rolling.
And the whole time, the Heavy Bombers are smashing the infrastructure while being attacked and defended by fighters.
And every enemy/friendly unit you encounter is another person.
Sounds like nirvana.
Muck ... that is Nirvana ... but ya ready for this ?!?!?
One or two talentless dweebs make one or two passes on the base and fuel is down to 25% for an extended period of time ...
POP .... back to reality .
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Never, Slapshot!
For I have upped with 3 other pilots and intercepted and destroyed the 2 would be Jabos before they could reach the target!
The dream lives on!!!
P.S. I put on my robe and wizrds hat before flying....
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You will always meet instigators, in every game. Thats why AH gives you the option to squelch a person or an entire channel if you wish. I love buffs, they are enormous slow flying targets when on the other team, and great bait when on your team :D
But seriously, to each his own, you don't like flying fighters, don't do it, if you are an LTAR and like driving large gun toting monstroncities around, go for it; if you are a muppet and want to wing with kappa's 38 or fester's g10, go ahead and do it. And if you get killed doing these and some starts trash talking you, .squelch him, or just give it right back. Do what you like and don't worry about the other guy who is worrying more about what you are doing and not getting the enjoyment that he/she could :aok
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Ht could care less if nobody playing this game ever fought anyone else, so long as everyone pays their 15 bucks a month. The players make the "gameplay", not HT.
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Don't think any furballer--lazs included-- could care less how any body plays the game.
Most are quik with the when they shoot down or are shot down by anyone who takes the time to fite.
Most--myself included will not any player for decreasing thier chance to have fun down to 25%.
Strat guts certainly don't have to scan the map or dar-bar wondering where all the targets are--or whether they will be there after flying a sector on a big map--hence the reason big maps and fuel porking are not fair to the less than silent majority.
Imagine if furballers could take 75% of your targets with one plane and 15 minutes to waste.
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Problem there, Sax-
We normally have to fly 3-4 or more sectors to reach a marked strat target.
Often times, our target will be attacked and damaged by another buff group before we arrive, so we have a second target lined up.
Milkrunning, and Scorepadding are so rampant when a strat target is 1-2 sectors away, that the score potatos got them down before we can even plan a strike.
Believe me, we fly multi-sector missions for nothing all the time. It's not a furball only problem.
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sparks... you are free to pursue any kind of fun in AH that is available.. no matter how boring or talentless a normal person would find it but...
Where I have problems with it is when the the effort (or lack thereof) has a lopsided effect.
one person porking fuel has a lopsided effect for his "effort" on many players. I have no say in how the game is run or organized but I do feel that it is fine for me to point out these percieved problems and unfairness.
It is the lopsidedness and unfair aspect of such actions that is the cause of the animosity not I.
rarely is a furballer singled out by the strat sis.. guys.. as ruining their gameplay. perhaps we have been blamed as a group for not playing the way they would like us to but... we have no real effect on how they have fun in the game. if we shoot one down... well... he had as good a chance of winning as losing.
lazs
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Well Sparks, see there`s a reason Liz....... errrrrrrrr Laz a.k.a. Humpy The Wonder Pooch uses such terms as sad, talentless, and attention starved. He is familiar with these terms because those are his characteristics.
He`s just a sad, talentless, attention starved little poochy pup in a land with no fire hydrants and no step stool to reach an ankle. :D
:rofl :lol :D :p :rofl :lol :D :p :aok
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Originally posted by muckmaw
P.S. I put on my robe and wizrds hat before flying....
Aight, aight...:lol
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I hear in the DA there are no strat guys? Ever thought of takin all your furballs in there?:aok
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I hear in the DA there are no strat guys? Ever thought of takin all your furballs in there?
See all posts prior to Fester map about this. Get up to speed boy lol.
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Originally posted by ManeDog
I hear in the DA there are no strat guys? Ever thought of takin all your furballs in there?:aok
Man .... why didn't I think of that ? That idea/notion has never been made before ... ManeDog ... you are BRILLIANT !!! ;)
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Originally posted by lazs2
we have no real effect on how they have fun in the game. if we shoot one down... well... he had as good a chance of winning as losing.
lazs
I rarely agree with lazs in the O'Club..but Sparks, what he is saying about the game is summed up nicely in the above quote.
You guys that bomb bases down to 25% fuel all across the front inpinge on those of us who fly to get into dogfights. You simply make it boring for us.
How do furballers make things boring for you strat guys? Answer..they don't.
The problem is that the "fun" that many of you strat guys seem to have is simply to make it boring for the rest of us. THAT is lazs' point and why he jabs you guys with insults.
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The problem I'm having is that as a part time strat player, I've never bombed fuel tanks at a base. Why bother? You just make the enemy use a more fuel efficient plane, or fly one way trips. They're still going to hit your base.
If I was to disable an enemy, I bang his troop center, the city that supplies it, and all the front line barracks. That puts the advance out of the question for 3 hours.
Now if some suicidal guy wants to fly a goon from 4 sectors back, he's welcome too it.
This is how you stop the steamroller, and this is how you turn the tide of battle in this game.
Know how many times I've planned and executed this mission successfully? Once.
And I'll never forget it. It was the best raid I ever pulled because it was so freakin hard to organize and execute.
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You are absolutely right muck.
That would stop the horde, but allow the furballers to go on. It seems that people dont really care about stopping the horde they only want to stop the furball.
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Good point Muck
Maybe more of everything at a base would help.
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so the answer to everyones problem is as always...fix the strat system...make real strat targets more effective while making pseudo strat less effective...
or even worse the furballers could simply change bases...but that would mean almost 5 more minutes of flying and we cant possibly have that
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Ok you want war ? there you go......
map makers this is for you..
One land ring 5k alt.
In the center the central lake with an island and a neutral field who some one
will conquer it first.
Every country only One field around the ring but double acks double size sity double VH and double strat.
And Only one port.
He who owns the central field and the field of another country wins.
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Ok so maybe I can't get a point across cozz 99% of people have missed it.
Lazs you may consider me humourless but after a while it gets tiring and worse - it starts to create a belief that some people are part of an eleite few who "know how it should be" and everyone else is somehow "not normal"no matter how boring or talentless a normal person would find it but...
Your own words....
So why is the game I want perverted and yours "normal" ???
And by the way you are ASSUMING the game as it is now is how I want it - it isn't
Funnily enough I'm like you - nothing annoys me more than looging on and having to hunt round for a feild not at 25% fuel. Or to look for an even DarBar not 40 vs 1. Because I do fly fighters as well ........
The idea of going to a feild simply to pork fuel to stop people getting to you bores me to tears and promotes the horde moving front.
I'm going to post my thoughts about gameplay in another thread because I don't want to take the emphasis away from this point.
Regardless of the gameplay as it stands Lazs, and the cheerleaders who give a high five for every thinly veiled insult, are dividing the players and trying to label those outside the "fold of higher knowledge" as abnormal and somehow lesser. It may have been humour at first but this has been months and its past that.
I like a more strategic ENTIRE game and that does not make me different or lesser than anyone else - get it NOW ??
Sparks
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i realy dont under stand why furballers hate strat guys....
to a good furballer, a buff formation is 3 "easy" kills.........
Strat seems pointless to me though, even though im a strat guy. You know, i fly to a HQ in 2hours + kill it off and its fully working again before i even land sometime, even if the city supplying it is at 0% like what happend the other day... that sucks.
Bombing fuel factorys etc should effect all fields ammount imo...
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Originally posted by Curval
I rarely agree with lazs in the O'Club..but Sparks, what he is saying about the game is summed up nicely in the above quote.
You guys that bomb bases down to 25% fuel all across the front inpinge on those of us who fly to get into dogfights. You simply make it boring for us.
Curv, the people who do fuel porks are not strat players, they are tardz. One of the reasons I like better field spacing is because the tardz get bored and forget why they took off if they have to fly more than 5 minutes to do a fuel pork run.
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Originally posted by Curval
I rarely agree with lazs in the O'Club..but Sparks, what he is saying about the game is summed up nicely in the above quote.
You guys that bomb bases down to 25% fuel all across the front inpinge on those of us who fly to get into dogfights. You simply make it boring for us.
How do furballers make things boring for you strat guys? Answer..they don't.
The problem is that the "fun" that many of you strat guys seem to have is simply to make it boring for the rest of us. THAT is lazs' point and why he jabs you guys with insults.
isnt the point of this game to take bases?
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I see 30k crooks....I pork there alt. fuel.
I see 30 nitwits hittin 1 of my bases....I go pork there strat.
I feel like furballing...no problem...there is always a senseless
Furball somewhere.:aok
don't like it....come stop me:D
Laz is right for 1 point though.....If its so easy to pork fuels...it should be easy to resup. it....instead of 8 trips.....say 2.
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Originally posted by Curval
I rarely agree with lazs in the O'Club..but Sparks, what he is saying about the game is summed up nicely in the above quote.
You guys that bomb bases down to 25% fuel all across the front inpinge on those of us who fly to get into dogfights. You simply make it boring for us.
How do furballers make things boring for you strat guys? Answer..they don't.
The problem is that the "fun" that many of you strat guys seem to have is simply to make it boring for the rest of us. THAT is lazs' point and why he jabs you guys with insults.
This is twisted and distorted pongo. Lazs' argument is flawed.
If "furballers" truly just wanted to be left alone, they'd just go to an arena where they were left alone. Why don't they? It's a simply question that no "furballer" has ever answered honestly.
Not wanting to fight in the war is no excuse for feeling the war is too impacting on you. Not wanting to climb to over 5k in the MA is not a reason to claim it is impossible to stop a fighter attacking a base from 6k. Not wanting to defend a CV does not give you the right to verbally assault someone for sinking it.
There's some fundamentally flawed arguements being presented and accepted. THERE IS "A WAR" IN THE MA. IT AFFECTS EVERYONE PLAYING IN IT. SIMPLY CHOSING NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN IT SHOULD NOT MAKE YOU IMMUNE FROM IT'S AFFECTS.
Impact is another story, but it never really stays on that. Suiciding is another issue, but it never really stays there either. The truth is, people just want to blame everyone else for every problem, boredom or general issue they have with the game.
MiniD
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overlag... you miss the point.. 3 fluff kills are, as you say, 3 easy kills but it is like killing toolsheds.. we don't like killing toolshjeds..
We like to fight other fighters. And no... we don't like the fight spread over two sectors.
sparks... it was you who singled me out personaly... you even named the thread after me... you are the one who takes and makes things personal.
This is all fine as I am a shallow and insensive person but.. what was your point? I am mean to the mouse weilders? Ok, I am... now what? address my points. Have a point yourself...
Besides... how right can you be? jakal agrees with you.
but go ahead... start another thread with your ideas.. this one doesn't seem to be working out for you.. as you say, 99% of us don't get it. In our ignorance we just thought it was another strat sissy making another humorless personal attack to cover his frustration and shame at not being able to fly with the noble furballers.
oh... and deja/mini... I do stick to the "impact" point. And... I do stick to the "map opportunities" point.
Lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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There is a fundamental disconnect here ...
overlag says ... "i realy dont under stand why furballers hate strat guys...."
I don't think that we hate the strat guys ... we just dislike the tactics of .... "Curv, the people who do fuel porks are not strat players, they are tardz." Thanks for that description beet1e.
These tardz are associated with the "strat" guys. Their "strat" objective is to climb out to altitude - put the nose down and plow thru the defense - wack the fuel - die immediately thereafter. The consequence of their actions cannot be so easily reversed.
The other situation that can piss people off is when there is a good CV battle of the coast, sides are pretty even and there is no real advance on the base ... just good fights. Someone must sink the CV regardless. Now if the CV fighters are making a strong advance to the base, then sink the bastage ... until then let the fur fly.
MiniD says ... "If "furballers" truly just wanted to be left alone, they'd just go to an arena where they were left alone. Why don't they? It's a simply question that no "furballer" has ever answered honestly."
Here is my answer ...
The reason that I don't want to go to another arena (DA I presume is the underlying intent here) is largely due to the fact that the MA brings many more external variables to the fight. Many different altitudes to engage at and different land formations (hills, valleys, canyons, etc.) that can be used to one's advantage. Nothing better that dragging a few fighters into a canyon and mixing it up within the walls. The MA presents many more different fight scenarios than the DA could ever present.
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The reason that I don't want to go to another arena (DA I presume is the underlying intent here) is largely due to the fact that the MA brings many more external variables to the fight. Many different altitudes to engage at and different land formations (hills, valleys, canyons, etc.) that can be used to one's advantage. Nothing better that dragging a few fighters into a canyon and mixing it up within the walls. The MA presents many more different fight scenarios than the DA could ever present.
BS. Pure and simple. You're dancing around it. Get to the heart of the matter.
MiniD
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Originally posted by lazs2
Besides... how right can you be? jakal agrees with you.
Lazs
Public Misinformation Officer for the BK's
You really need to go back and freshen up on them comprehension lessons. :D
Not agreeing/disagreeing with anyone in this thread.
Read it real slooooooooooowwwww. What I said , Humpy, was you are sad, talentless and attention starved.
I didn`t even mention the game. :D :rofl
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Here was my point from the end of the last thread
I like a more strategic ENTIRE game and that does not make me different or lesser than anyone else
Originally quoted by Lazsyou are the one who takes and makes things personal.
Yes I did and I have for two reasons:-
1. You have made yourself the champion of this cause by repeatedly either starting or enflaming this discussion.
2. After such a long period of being labeled abnormal and sad etc (probably into years thinking about it) then it stops being a humourous jab and becomes something deeper.
OK - so to address your points .........
I agree that you should be able to log on and pick an aircraft of your choice with the fuel load of your choice and fly. The current fuel porking contest is absurd IMHO. Jabo attacks should not be able to turn an airfield from fully up to unusable in 3 minutes. This just promotes horde raids and a steam roller numbers game.
However because of the current strat setup you want to split the MA into two separate games - fighter furball and Bomber airways.
Neither one can affect the other.
This makes the assumption (and there are plenty of stories on this BBS suposedly backing this up) that furballs are starting at some point between[/i] two feilds and maintaining some kind of balance until some strat guy comes in behind everyones back and porks the field. I my experience I have not seen that. A furball breaks out when one group attacks a field and the home group sucessfully defend it. But the whole time the furball is going people are trying to get in to pork the other sides fuel to take advantage. In your version of furballs being destroyed by the actions of others I would expect to see no advance towards the oppositions airfield and minimal attempts to pork the others fuel. That simply doesn't happen.
That seems to suggest to me that either furballers do there own share of porking or there aren't as many pure furballers out there as you might think.
I'd like to know how many of those raising their hands as pure furballers, who only log on to look for an air to air fight, can say they have not straffed a fuel tank or ammo bunker.
So I say you can't split the game like that in the same arena - too many people want to play the full spectrum. If that wasn't true then the DA would be fuller than now. If you and so many others are having such a problem in the MA and there is already a place to fly without those restrictions then why hasn't there been a migration to the DA - as said by someone else on this thread that has never been answered.
If you are not interested in a war game or strategy then why have it at all ?? Why do you want to mix it in the same arena ?? To me that seems pointlessly complex.
Ok so then the shout goes up "see you just want the furballers out of the MA - you want to stop them playing". Not true - as I said before you have as much right to do what you want as I do to do what I want. I am basing my argument that this is a strat game on what the game producers say and build - and that is a Main Arena with all vehicles and options and a strat system AND a clear statement on their web page on what the game is. That seems to be at odds at the moment with the push here on the BBS for a more fighter based game.
This is why I said HTC needs to step in and clarify the direction things are taking and timescales.
If the MA is to go furball and the strat is to go to another arena then thats fine by me but lets know and lets see what the system in the new arena would be - whether its AH2 or whatever.
The system I would like to see would be one that works on airfield supply and usage and move the strat element away from airfield attack as the means of restricting resource. Go back towards depots and resupply routes and set up airfield stock levels and resupply rates so if you log on and go to a feild and there is 200 gals of fuel in the tanks and you need 200 gals for full tanks you can take it. The idea is more involved than that but it is the basic premise. However there would still be an impact on furballers but not the same as there is now and hopefully acceptable.
Lastly I take your point about being shallow and insensitive and not caring about your attitude to people who wish to play the game their way and not yours - I'll bear that in mind. In the end its up to HTC how far they let things go and for how long but I think it's creating divisions within the users of AH unnecessarily and at the end of the day we are all people.
Sparks
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Pearls of wisdom (as always) from MiniD on these matters.
:aok
Interesting material from Slapshot... The other situation that can piss people off is when there is a good CV battle of the coast, sides are pretty even and there is no real advance on the base ... just good fights. Someone must sink the CV regardless. Now if the CV fighters are making a strong advance to the base, then sink the bastage ... until then let the fur fly.
I don't disagree with your sentiments, but don't you feel that you're mandating how other players should play? Dear me, the Furball Committee will have to take this into account when your membership is up for renewal. The reason that I don't want to go to another arena (DA I presume is the underlying intent here) is largely due to the fact that the MA brings many more external variables to the fight. Many different altitudes to engage at and different land formations (hills, valleys, canyons, etc.) that can be used to one's advantage. Nothing better that dragging a few fighters into a canyon and mixing it up within the walls.
Hey, great! I think we have a Pizza Map convert! :):cool:
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SlapShot
The reason that I don't want to go to another arena (DA I presume is the underlying intent here) is largely due to the fact that the MA brings many more external variables to the fight. Many different altitudes to engage at and different land formations (hills, valleys, canyons, etc.) that can be used to one's advantage. Nothing better that dragging a few fighters into a canyon and mixing it up within the walls. The MA presents many more different fight scenarios than the DA could ever present.
A good point I say but then how about this - would you prefer a single arena with two games or two similar arenas in terms of terrain and features but one labeled Fighter MA and the other Strat MA ??
Sparks
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Originally posted by beet1e
Pearls of wisdom (as always) from MiniD on these matters. :aok
Interesting material from Slapshot... I don't disagree with your sentiments, but don't you feel that you're mandating how other players should play? Dear me, the Furball Committee will have to take this into account when your membership is up for renewal. Hey, great! I think we have a Pizza Map convert! :):cool:
Your such an *** kisser ... ;) MiniD has a lot of good imput but I wouldn't go as far as ... "always".
I am not mandating ... I am asking/suggesting ... When the CV is sunk just for the sake of sinking while MANY are having fun ... that is "mandating" thru action.
I don't dislike AKDessert nor do I like it ... as much as some other maps. I think that it needs some tweaks and color changes and it will be fine. If I had my druthers, it would be Mindano that hits the bit-bucket.
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Since when are the strat/bomber guys porking fuels to 25%? How many times have you been waiting to up from a base and you see the lone P-38 or P-51 dive down, bomb/rocket fuels, and auger? Then voila, fuel 25%. I've seen it many times.
I can't speak for other bombers but my sorties are multi-sector and are usually targetting cities...since by time I get there, the fights already on.
You need to realize that there are people like myself, Muck, Cajun and others who enjoy hitting strategic targets. Cities, hangars, fleets, etc.
You also have the jabo/suicide idiots who take buffs NOE, attempt to pancake what they can with as many bombs as possible, die, then repeat the process.
As for Lazs colorful metaphors....he's been calling us those names forever. Whenever we throw mud back his way, he cries foul.
Like MiniD has said many times, Lazs skirts the questions and issues.
Apparently, he has HiTech's ear tho...Lazs wanted buffs made ineffective and HiTech delivered. Most of the guys I used to up into bomber formations with gave em up.
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Originally posted by Mini D
BS. Pure and simple. You're dancing around it. Get to the heart of the matter.
MiniD
That is no BS Mini ... those are the main reason why (for me).
You appear to be trying to play the bait-and-catch game here ... if your waiting for me to "get to the heart of the matter", that leads me to believe that you already have a good idea or have formed an opinon as to what the "heart" is ... so lets hear it.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Since when are the strat/bomber guys porking fuels to 25%? How many times have you been waiting to up from a base and you see the lone P-38 or P-51 dive down, bomb/rocket fuels, and auger? Then voila, fuel 25%. I've seen it many times.
I can't speak for other bombers but my sorties are multi-sector and are usually targetting cities...since by time I get there, the fights already on.
You need to realize that there are people like myself, Muck, Cajun and others who enjoy hitting strategic targets. Cities, hangars, fleets, etc.
You also have the jabo/suicide idiots who take buffs NOE, attempt to pancake what they can with as many bombs as possible, die, then repeat the process.
As for Lazs colorful metaphors....he's been calling us those names forever. Whenever we throw mud back his way, he cries foul.
Like MiniD has said many times, Lazs skirts the questions and issues.
Apparently, he has HiTech's ear tho...Lazs wanted buffs made ineffective and HiTech delivered. Most of the guys I used to up into bomber formations with gave em up.
BD5 ...
I think the majority of the ire is directed toward the JABO/Suicide dweebs and the occasional B-26 dive bombers ... not the real buff pilots. If you are flying hight above my base and you take out all the fuel while droppnig at altitude then all the power to ya. I have no problem with that.
HiTech did not make the buffs ineffective ... he made it harder ... more closer to reality than the lazer type destruction we had before.
Geesh ... my gunnery sucks ... so why could I not have an auto-lead targeting system installed in my fighter so I can shoot with lazer precision ... get my point.
There are MANY good buff pilots out there that can drop anything with the same precision they had prior to the change. These are the real buff pilots cause they have learned something that is difficult at best, for most. I believe that anybody who puts forth the same effort as you guys have to become proficient at buffing can also be successful buff pilots too ... its just that they are too lazy to make the effort ... too bad for them.
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Sorry slapshot... it's contrived. You took a list, crossed stuff off that might be counterproductive and then wrote something up to attempt to prove a point.
Why were numbers not mentioned on that list slapshot... how could that be left off?
Like I said... nobody wants to give an honest answer. They'd rather blow smoke up people's ass. You just proved the point more than you'll ever realize.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
Sorry slapshot... it's contrived. You took a list, crossed stuff off that might be counterproductive and then wrote something up to attempt to prove a point.
Why were numbers not mentioned on that list slapshot... how could that be left off?
Like I said... nobody wants to give an honest answer. They'd rather blow smoke up people's ass. You just proved the point more than you'll ever realize.
MiniD
Mini D ... I knew that even before I posted, that no answer was gonna pass the Mini D muster ... they never do.
Maybe you should change your name to Karnac (but you look like John Belushi) ... your mind reading skills are beyond incredible.
Contirived ... yeah thats it ... I have a hidden agenda here and cod forbid that I get found out.
"You just proved the point more than you'll ever realize." ... I won't be able to sleep tonight ... thanks alot.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I am not mandating ... I am asking/suggesting ... When the CV is sunk just for the sake of sinking while MANY are having fun ... that is "mandating" thru action.
When you shoot someone down, you cause his sortie to come to an end. He then has no choice but to re-up in a new plane if he wants to keep flying. Sounds like mandating thru action to me. What a daft point to make. On this occasion, one is not enough, so... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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Originally posted by beet1e
When you shoot someone down, you cause his sortie to come to an end. He then has no choice but to re-up in a new plane if he wants to keep flying. Sounds like mandating thru action to me. What a daft point to make. On this occasion, one is not enough, so... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
He/She had the same opportunity to end my sortie ... that is a 1 vs 1 scenario ... the problem lies with a FEW vs MANY scenario. FEW can spoil the "fun" for MANY is the problem beet.
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I see these constants.... "fun" and "ruin" and "spoil"
Be real.
So if your CV is sunk, well darn those bomber guys...they just shouldn't be allowed to do that...is that really all your argument comes down to?
Hello? Perhaps defend it? Manuever the vessel, etc?
I mean, I hate to throw logic out your way...but perhaps if you intercept the bombers versus scowl at their existance, you might make more progress?
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Originally posted by LePaul
I see these constants.... "fun" and "ruin" and "spoil"
Be real.
So if your CV is sunk, well darn those bomber guys...they just shouldn't be allowed to do that...is that really all your argument comes down to?
Hello? Perhaps defend it? Manuever the vessel, etc?
I mean, I hate to throw logic out your way...but perhaps if you intercept the bombers versus scowl at their existance, you might make more progress?
I guess you didn't read my original thoughts on this ...
If there is a CV furball of the coast and the fight it staying off the coast ... then let it be. Please bomb the cruiser and any/all support ships ... thats cool, but as soon as the fight appears to be endangering the coastal base ... bomb the crap out of it.
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Originally posted by LePaul
...
You also have the jabo/suicide idiots who take buffs NOE, attempt to pancake what they can with as many bombs as possible, die, then repeat the process.
...
This is one of the most annoying things in the game - to some there must be nothing more "fun" than coming into a field at 300 AGL in a buff formation.
I am sure these are the same dweebs who used to use the B17 as a suicide bomb.
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Slapshot, you're still lieing.
You knew before you even posted that you weren't really posting the reasons why people that just want to furball without interuption don't go to the MA to do it.
It's not a matter of passing a test, it's a matter of being honest. You were not, and now you're continuing avoid the issue that I knew anyone who replied would intentionally avoid.
Put it back on me all you want. I'm not sitting here coming up with contrived replies because an honest answer would be counterproductive.
MiniD
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Ah... the "leave the CV be" argument.
I'll leave the CV be the day those flying from the CV don't level the base they are "furballing", start vulching and then eventually capture unless someone "ruins" it by sinking the CV.
Sound familiar SlapShot? Or was I just imagining you nailing me as I launched from a hangar?
MiniD
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I see. So don't touch "goal"
You're asking me, in a dodgeball game, not to welt the fat kid. Sorry!
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Mini - tard
It's not a matter of passing a test, it's a matter of being honest. You were not, and now you're continuing avoid the issue that I knew anyone who replied would intentionally avoid.
Enlighten us Mini what is the issue. Slapshot asked you once already, but yet you skirt the answer. Stop antagonizing and start adding.
What would slap need to hide from a bunch of morons on a BB and in a friggin game. Give us all break.
The MA arena offers many things over all other arenas, some obvious some not, some depend on the person. Slap gave you the reasons he likes the MA over the other arenas. It wasn't the answer you wanted to hear so you have gone on your little tangent and said nothing.
The Bottom line is every kind of game play is well and evenly represented in the MA EXCEPT furballing. Furballs are few and far between, easily killed and originally what the MA arena was designed for, Air to Air Combat. It is not a matter of kicking people out of the MA like you would like to do. It is a matter of offering the ability to furball as much as any other type of game play, evenly.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Slapshot, you're still lieing.
MiniD
:(
Disagree all ya like--but
Character attack on Slap--don't think so Mini.
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deja/mini... no one is skirting anything that I can see... I don't know what great truth you think you know but... spit it out.
sparks... so you agree with everything I say you just don't like the way I say it? I'm not too fond of the british wall-O-words posts either but what are ya gonna do? They pay you guys by the word over there or is putting people to sleep a UK debating strategy?
boils down to this... There should be some balance... the amount of effort required to affect other players should be balanced with the actual effect... guy shouldn't be able to affect dozens of players with a talentless 3 minute fuel porking.
CV's? Who knows? Seems that they are a little too vulnerable now tho.
lepaul... I have never avoided any question ... certainly not one from deja.. perhaps you could show me where I have? and as to "crying foul" when people "sling mud" at me.... Naa... just pointing out their hypocracy..
point is... the strat girls need the furballers... they need to have an effect on the noble furballers or their presence in the game has no meaning... we would all ignore them. The strat element wants to effect the fighters. The fighter element never advocates having an effedt on the strat players.
Lets say that, If shooting a 2 sec burst of 4 50 calibrers into the bomber hangers at a field made it so that no bombers could take off till 8 goon trips resupplied that field. Fightrers and furballers could then "have fun" by shutting down all bombing opperations at any usable field with very little effort...
Would that be fine with you "strat" boyz? Would you perhaps feel that we had too much effect for the effort we put out?
lazs
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Originally posted by SlapShot
He/She had the same opportunity to end my sortie ... that is a 1 vs 1 scenario ... the problem lies with a FEW vs MANY scenario. FEW can spoil the "fun" for MANY is the problem beet.
I don't buy that argument, Slapshot. A bomber was designed to do a great deal of ground damage. But I guess that's a part of Selective Realism™ that has not met the approval of the Furball Committee Review Board.
What do you expect? A B17 to be armed with only 6x.50 cals forward facing guns so as not to exceed the lethality of an F4U-1D? OK, in REAL WW2, a B17 had a crew of about ten men. That is simply not feasible in a game like AH. Hell, it's bad enough getting 2-3 fighters to coordinate. But in AH, a single fighter like a F4U-1C can take out all three buffs in a formation. Thus, the potential damage that ONE GUY can do flying a formation of three bombers can be averted by ONE GUY flying a F4U-1C. Even a -1D or an F6F can do the job. Sounds more than fair to me.
Yes I know that you and your ilk would like to see bombers mandated out of existence. In accordance with furballer requests they've already been made ineffective, but you guys can't be satisfied until you have everything your own way. You are very sad, and you make me sad.
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beetle... I don't think the terms "realistic" and "bomber" should be used anywhere in the same thread much less sentance.
lazs
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Yes I know that you and your ilk would like to see bombers mandated out of existence. In accordance with furballer requests they've already been made ineffective, but you guys can't be satisfied until you have everything your own way. You are very sad, and you make me sad.
My god Beetle you must have a skull 3 feet thick.
Pay attention - Furballers don't care what anyone else does. We would just like the MA to be as conducive to furballing as it is to every other form of game play.
So no You dont know crap based on your quote.
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The Bottom line is every kind of game play is well and evenly represented in the MA EXCEPT furballing. Furballs are few and far between, easily killed and originally what the MA arena was designed for, Air to Air Combat. It is not a matter of kicking people out of the MA like you would like to do. It is a matter of offering the ability to furball as much as any other type of game play, evenly
??? there only easily killed because front lines to narrow so the tards have nowhere else to attack...and if furballs arnt evenly represented right now then the argument few can stop the fun of many no longer holds true...just because your to lazy to fly for a few more minutes (AT MOST...25 miles at 100mph is 15 minutes...200 7.5 minutes...and since furballs are usually in the middle of the sector its only a 3.5 (approx) minute flight to the furball...) did you ever think that if there isnt a furball already in progress you could start one...get a big enough dar bar in a sector and they will come...
He/She had the same opportunity to end my sortie ... that is a 1 vs 1 scenario ... the problem lies with a FEW vs MANY scenario. FEW can spoil the "fun" for MANY is the problem beet.
thats only because someone had the bright idea to make resupplying a feild completly useless...oh and the tards on your side have the same opportunity to pork there feilds fuel...
so the solution would be...1st make reesupplying feilds more effective...2nd move the bases a little bit closer (no more than 28 miles apart...though that does promote the tardlets suicide porking) 3rd make bombs dropped on a "fighter" scored sortie not to anything...bombs dropped on "attack" sorties do half damage...bombs dropped on "bomber" sorties do regular amount of damage...4th increase the strength of fuel tanks (easily accomplished) 5th possibly add a fighter only ordinance enabled 10k mountain surrounded furball area in the center of each map...or at least something similar to whats on NDisles
there you go...rather than arguing over whos a talentless loser you should be coming up with possible solutions to the problem...nothing ever got solved by calling each other names
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Originally posted by mars01
Pay attention - Furballers don't care what anyone else does.
Yes they do. They don't like it when the tardz pork their fuel (though I don't blame them if it's a suicide pork) and they don't like bombers destroying the FH or a CV. They don't like the fact that one guy piloting a buff can do the amount of damage that he can. I think maybe it's you who needs to pay attention!
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I have no problem with making resupply more effective but would prefer that the fuel simply could not go below 50%... that way.... sky accountants would effect only other sky accountants.
Also agree that fields should be closer together. Those two features would help a lot.
best solution tho is to have strategic targets that affect the war but have little or no effect on the fighters fighting each other. The lazs strat idea would do that... lert em carpet bomb cities. let em take credit for "winning the war".
lazs
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Mini-
Maybe I can give you my take on dogfighting in the MA, though some will tell you I don't know what a real dogdight is.
I prefer the MA to the DA because it's the common ground. It's where everyone from the greenest noob to the Biggest Video Game Fighter Ace can be found.
The terrain plays a certain role, but you also have the socializing of the MA.
There's no score for DA. There's no MuckMAW landed 47 kills in his F6F message either.
Why won't anyone admit the following:
I like recognition for my gameplay abilities. I like the "WTG" I get when I land 2 or more kills. I like checking my score and seeing improvement.
What is so bad about that? Why is everyone so afraid to admit it?
I'm sure this does not apply to everyone, but I'm equally sure I'm not the only one who gets a good feeling when I land 4 kills and some folks on country channel I never talk to shoot me a WTG.
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Beetle you are ridiculous,
Slap agrees, I agree, you want to bomb, bomb it is the suicide morons that create the problem. You want to take out the FH go ahead. Fester proved that if you move the fields closer together then the furball has much better chance of not being killed by furball killers and you strat guys can still kill strat and take bases.
I am paying attention to all your innuendo and BS. You make statements that furballers want this and that and when we tell you, you are wrong you ignore it. What a joke.
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just 1 more thing...mini since you seem to be opposed to laz's idea...what do YOU suggest be done to fix (or improve) the situation...
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??? there only easily killed because front lines to narrow so the tards have nowhere else to attack...
BS since fester proved that the closer the bases are the more persistent the furballs are.
and if furballs arnt evenly represented right now then the argument few can stop the fun of many no longer holds true...
Its even more true now. This just show even further how little you know or furball. The resone furballs are not evenly represented is because the few can kill them very easily.
just because your to lazy to fly for a few more minutes (AT MOST...25 miles at 100mph is 15 minutes...200 7.5 minutes...and since furballs are usually in the middle of the sector its only a 3.5 (approx) minute flight to the furball...)
Yeah lazy, your way you spend more time flying to a fight than actually fighting just what you strat guys like. Then comes in the suicide fuel porker now you cant get the fuel to only fly the 5 to 8 min you suggest so now you have to up a sector and a half or more back to bring enough fuel so you are flying 10 min to get to a furball that may be all but over. Again your wrong.
did you ever think that if there isnt a furball already in progress you could start one...get a big enough dar bar in a sector and they will come...
Yeah that happens. If you wish really hard you'll get that train for xmas, or is it the dolly you really want lol. If that were the case this thread would not be taking place.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Slapshot, you're still lieing.
You knew before you even posted that you weren't really posting the reasons why people that just want to furball without interuption don't go to the MA to do it.
It's not a matter of passing a test, it's a matter of being honest. You were not, and now you're continuing avoid the issue that I knew anyone who replied would intentionally avoid.
Put it back on me all you want. I'm not sitting here coming up with contrived replies because an honest answer would be counterproductive.
MiniD
Lieing ... that would be very hard to prove. Try a better tack than that.
"don't go to the MA to do it." ... I am sure you meant DA here but in your haste to be the witty-one you messed up.
Ahhh ... now I see the light ... I think ... numbers !!! Yes ... there would not be a good amount of numbers in the DA to sustain the type of fight(s) that we seek and it would get boring killin and getting killed by the same pilot(s) over and over.
Mini D, if you think for one second that I am hiding something because I will say something "counterprodcutive" to the "furball" cause and it would unleash the wrath of a Mini D response, you are for a shock.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Ah... the "leave the CV be" argument.
I'll leave the CV be the day those flying from the CV don't level the base they are "furballing", start vulching and then eventually capture unless someone "ruins" it by sinking the CV.
Sound familiar SlapShot? Or was I just imagining you nailing me as I launched from a hangar?
MiniD
No you weren't imagining me nailing you ... I admit it ... that was me.
But ... had you fully read my thoughts on this, at the point that we were advancing towards your field, then the CV needs to be sunk ... I have no problem with that ... and that is exactly what happened.
Also, if you remember, once the CV was sunk I sent a big salute to the FDBs and thanked them for the fights ... only one FDB sent a salute back. It wasn't you ... nor had I expected one from you either.
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mini di.. is just being a little more pissy than normal lately because he got beat up in the oclub by........ GIRLS!
lazs
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I've seen some decent numbers in the DA.
80 max, once, but you're right Slap. Normally, theres only about 10 or so in the DA, so you would end up killing the same folks over and over above a flat, featureless terrain.
On the other hand, though, don't we see alot of the same folks over and over in furball in the MA? I mean, for me, this is often the case.
Also, if the DA became the Furball Mecca, would'nt we see numbers in there start to climb, much like the CT did over time?
Finally, is there any merit, in your opinion to what I posted earlier about pilots enjoying the recognition of their peers that is only available in the MA right now?
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muck... speaking for myself... I would say that of course.. there is merit in what you say about recognition. Most furballers have to work pretty hard for their kills... I am pretty poor at it myself but if I get 4 or five kills I will put out a little extra effort to land on the runway instead of ditch to "get my name in lights"...
even more important... I have been in sims where their is tow arenas.... where the community is split... RR and FR for instance or Axis vs Allied and regualr etc. I don't think that is so great.
lazs
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Mini-
Maybe I can give you my take on dogfighting in the MA, though some will tell you I don't know what a real dogdight is.
I prefer the MA to the DA because it's the common ground. It's where everyone from the greenest noob to the Biggest Video Game Fighter Ace can be found.
The terrain plays a certain role, but you also have the socializing of the MA.
There's no score for DA. There's no MuckMAW landed 47 kills in his F6F message either.
Why won't anyone admit the following:
I like recognition for my gameplay abilities. I like the "WTG" I get when I land 2 or more kills. I like checking my score and seeing improvement.
What is so bad about that? Why is everyone so afraid to admit it?
I'm sure this does not apply to everyone, but I'm equally sure I'm not the only one who gets a good feeling when I land 4 kills and some folks on country channel I never talk to shoot me a WTG.
You know ... all these points have been addressed/pointed out/confessed to/conceeded to in another heated "strat" vs "furball" thread.
These points are not new as far as I am concerned. If this is the meat the Mini was looking for, then he came in on the whole discussion somewhere in the middle.
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Vort ...
Don't jump into the middle of something that you have no clue about.
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Originally posted by lazs2
muck... speaking for myself... I would say that of course.. there is merit in what you say about recognition. Most furballers have to work pretty hard for their kills... I am pretty poor at it myself but if I get 4 or five kills I will put out a little extra effort to land on the runway instead of ditch to "get my name in lights"...
even more important... I have been in sims where their is tow arenas.... where the community is split... RR and FR for instance or Axis vs Allied and regualr etc. I don't think that is so great.
lazs
Splitting the community, in my opinion is never a good idea.
I think we all need to accept the fact that we're going to have to live with each other for a while, and that there will always be griefers in any internet game who seem to get a hard on every time they ruin someone elses fun.
Unfortunately, I can be grouped into that category because I've been known to sink CV's that are immersed in furballs. I generally only do it when the CV is attacking a friendly base.
There is a certain satisfaction that comes from hitting a moving target with the new bomb system, especially when the CV is maneuvering. I can't put it into words, but putting those bombs into a tough target always feels good.
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Originally posted by vorticon
just 1 more thing...mini since you seem to be opposed to laz's idea...what do YOU suggest be done to fix (or improve) the situation...
Opposed to which one of lazs' ideas?
Bases closer together? - Opposed
Furball island? - Opposed
Large sector cities? - Like
What I'm opposed to is the blind ignorance being levied in these discussions on the direction the game should be played. The blind refusal to admit that there's more to it that what people are saying and the "only if it proves my point" mentality being displayed. When lazs posts... he hits those whether it's a good idea or a bad idea. He still refuses to acknowledge a downside to anything.
As for you slapshot, you are projecting and pretending again.
When a CV is parked off shore, it holds all of the advantages in a fight. It's ack is indestructable and totally lethal, it can shoot flak at anything over 3k and you can always launch full fuel. As a result, the CV fights are fights over a deacked field where half of the kills are vulches. Everyone flying from the CV get's the feeling it's a furball while those flying from the base view it as defense. The CV is sunk, the "furballers" whine. I do, however, apreciate you giving an whenever you attacked from an advantage and were successful. I see great honor in that.
Truth be told, "furballing" has become synonymous with "easy kills". People don't want to be closer to a fight, they want to be closer to an easy fight. People don't want good fights, they want easy fights. People don't want fair, they want lopsided. There is an arena for fair fights to occur without intervention... but nobody flies there. "Variety" is cited as a reason, right next to "leave us alone". Irony does not even begin to cover the flawed core of the argument.
MiniD
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There is no downside to fields closer together... about like in festers map.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
There is no downside to fields closer together... about like in festers map.
How would you know? You don't play it.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
This is twisted and distorted pongo. Lazs' argument is flawed.
If "furballers" truly just wanted to be left alone, they'd just go to an arena where they were left alone. Why don't they? It's a simply question that no "furballer" has ever answered honestly.
Not wanting to fight in the war is no excuse for feeling the war is too impacting on you. Not wanting to climb to over 5k in the MA is not a reason to claim it is impossible to stop a fighter attacking a base from 6k. Not wanting to defend a CV does not give you the right to verbally assault someone for sinking it.
There's some fundamentally flawed arguements being presented and accepted. THERE IS "A WAR" IN THE MA. IT AFFECTS EVERYONE PLAYING IN IT. SIMPLY CHOSING NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN IT SHOULD NOT MAKE YOU IMMUNE FROM IT'S AFFECTS.
Impact is another story, but it never really stays on that. Suiciding is another issue, but it never really stays there either. The truth is, people just want to blame everyone else for every problem, boredom or general issue they have with the game.
MiniD
You cannot be this thick Deja....final try.
I have only two problems with AH gameplay....
The first is the ability for anyone to shut down the fuel supply with only one fighter in one trip and then to re-sup the same fuel requires 6 or 8 trips in a C-47.
The other problem which has become more prevelant this past year is that folks won't engage....they fly around afraid to fight....might take a dive here and there, but in the end, will fly away....where I have no idea. Didn't used to be this way.
Outside of the above, I could care less what the more intense players do with their online time....neither do Lazs or the other furballers.
Calling them names and poking them with insult takes place only because they deserve it....it's not personal on my part.
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Originally posted by Mini D
BS. Pure and simple. You're dancing around it. Get to the heart of the matter.
MiniD
Where's your crystal ball man....you seem to know so much about all of us.
Just because you don't like what's being said, does not mean the truth is not in it.
I think you just like to cause trouble.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Since when are the strat/bomber guys porking fuels to 25%? How many times have you been waiting to up from a base and you see the lone P-38 or P-51 dive down, bomb/rocket fuels, and auger? Then voila, fuel 25%. I've seen it many times.
I can't speak for other bombers but my sorties are multi-sector and are usually targetting cities...since by time I get there, the fights already on.
You need to realize that there are people like myself, Muck, Cajun and others who enjoy hitting strategic targets. Cities, hangars, fleets, etc.
You also have the jabo/suicide idiots who take buffs NOE, attempt to pancake what they can with as many bombs as possible, die, then repeat the process.
As for Lazs colorful metaphors....he's been calling us those names forever. Whenever we throw mud back his way, he cries foul.
Like MiniD has said many times, Lazs skirts the questions and issues.
Apparently, he has HiTech's ear tho...Lazs wanted buffs made ineffective and HiTech delivered. Most of the guys I used to up into bomber formations with gave em up.
How have buffs been made ineffective?
You now can fly with more firepower than before(3 ina group vs 1)
You now drop as they did in rl....a carpet bombing technique vs the laser guided silliness of before.
You just need to practice...I can hit whatever I aim at and I hardly ever fly buffs.
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Originally posted by Rude
I have only two problems with AH gameplay....
The first is the ability for anyone to shut down the fuel supply with only one fighter in one trip and then to re-sup the same fuel requires 6 or 8 trips in a C-47.
Ah... impact. Not that you care about rebuild, because someone else would have to do that. Of course, if someone else was also defending the base, this wouldn't be an issue. The dependance on someone else doing all of this is really the issue. Nobody wants to do it.The other problem which has become more prevelant this past year is that folks won't engage....they fly around afraid to fight....might take a dive here and there, but in the end, will fly away....where I have no idea. Didn't used to be this way.
Aren't you in the 13th rude? What were you saying about being thick? I don't disagree with the observation of the current MA scene, but I do disagree with the "wasn't that way before" statement. Maybe you didn't see it because AH doesn't model a review mirror.
It's actually why I find alot of the self-proclaimed "furballer" statements funny. I've seen many of them fly and not a single one of them behave the way they claim they do. It's not about the fight, it's about the kill. If you can't get tons of snapshots, then it's a bad fight. If someone get's behind you, drag them out for one of your squadies to kill. Yeppers... there's some good fighting for you.Outside of the above, I could care less what the more intense players do with their online time....neither do Lazs or the other furballers.
Then you haven't been playing lately either rude. I think you fail to realize just what the word "intense" means. Some would think that word applies to people that insist there should always be instant action and verbally abuse anyone that disagrees as well as aplying it to the field generals. Others don't. You may want to talk to your squadmates about this one.Calling them names and poking them with insult takes place only because they deserve it....it's not personal on my part.
And it's not intense. Nope. No way.
MiniD
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I guess you didn't read my original thoughts on this ...
If there is a CV furball of the coast and the fight it staying off the coast ... then let it be. Please bomb the cruiser and any/all support ships ... thats cool, but as soon as the fight appears to be endangering the coastal base ... bomb the crap out of it.
They don't give a crap...don't waste your time.
This game is so different than it used to be....I just don't fly anymore....that move seemed to fix all these issues nicely.
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Originally posted by sax
:(
Disagree all ya like--but
Character attack on Slap--don't think so Mini.
That's his style Sax....big difference between calling someone a sky accountant and calling another a liar....of course, bringing up the point of fuel porking/supply issues is entirely out of line too.
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"As for you slapshot, you are projecting and pretending again."
If you say so it must be true.
You know ... the more you argue the more myopic your viewpoint gets ... you really need to work on that.
"I do, however, apreciate you giving an whenever you attacked from an advantage and were successful. I see great honor in that."
As opposed to you never giving a no matter whether you are at an advantage or disadvantage. I have also given you when the reverse has happened ... win or lose. Again ... no surprises here.
At the end of the CV fight it was a general salute to the FDBs for all the fights in general and respect for the squad ... advantages / disadvantages really didn't enter into the equation.
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"Ah... impact. Not that you care about rebuild, because someone else would have to do that. Of course, if someone else was also defending the base, this wouldn't be an issue. The dependance on someone else doing all of this is really the issue. Nobody wants to do it."
Do you really know how many resupply sorties I have run in C-47s and/or M3s ? I have done many.
Defending ... ah yes ... my Spit V is a mighty match for mutiple suicide dive bombing buff formations. Its my all my fault ... I admit it.
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Originally posted by miniD
Truth be told, "furballing" has become synonymous with "easy kills". People don't want to be closer to a fight, they want to be closer to an easy fight. People don't want good fights, they want easy fights. People don't want fair, they want lopsided. There is an arena for fair fights to occur without intervention... but nobody flies there. "Variety" is cited as a reason, right next to "leave us alone". Irony does not even begin to cover the flawed core of the argument.
Says who? you? Where do you pull this crap out of, wait I know. People do people don't can you be more vauge and generalised. Whqat blows my mind is you have no argument.
One more time for the retarded that cant get it. It would be nice if the maps were more conducive to furballing. That is you didnt have to fly 5 to 10 minutes to get to one and they were not so easily stopped. Proven solution to both problems Festers map - move the fields closer together. I still have not heard a valid reason why moving the fields closer is a bad idea.
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I like the way people say how they fly, say what they want, claim they do certain things and then prove otherwise once they actually put the gear up. Someone from the 13th just said that people didn't used to run from fights. Someone that spent an hour vulching a base from a CV wants to pronounce the merit of CV vs close field battles.
This is getting downright pathetic. In a single post someone can insist that they aren't trying to affect how other people play then complain that people aren't playing the way they'd like. People are arguing using rhetoric so much that they are simply not thinking about what it is they are saying. Tiresome does not even begin to cover it.
You guys have been lieing to yourselfs so much you don't even realize you're doing it anymore. Now you're trying to convince people that the lies you're trying to tell yourselves are really truths.... while demonstrating otherwise.
Excuse me for calling you out on it.
MiniD
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Holy crap Mini,
Every post you have in this thread is so vague, its always "people say" or "everyone does", you say nothing definitive so that no one can call you on the BS your spewing. Your caught up in this furballers conspiracy theory - Yeah we shot Kennedy too - and you cant see that all we want is the ability to log on and find a fun furball. Thats it. No big plot to over throw the MA, no secrete society that is against you. No drama.
When I first started flying AH almost 2 years ago, about 4 or 5 months before the first big map came out, the numbers were around 400 peak and the furballs were many. I thought it was clever how they would spontaneously grow and deplete but you could always find one. The maps were smaller so you didn't have to fly as far to get in one either.
Now the numbers are through the roof, the maps are huge and the furballs are few. A playing style that was the norm, which a large group of AH patrons liked has disappeared except for the few lucky moments when a furball actually occurs. And these are usually stomped out by the suicide fuel porkers. This is the main concern of the furballer.
Its not that hard to understand - but you and beetle certainly seem to make it look that hard.
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Originally posted by lazs2
overlag... you miss the point.. 3 fluff kills are, as you say, 3 easy kills but it is like killing toolsheds.. we don't like killing toolshjeds..
We like to fight other fighters. And no... we don't like the fight spread over two sectors.
sparks... it was you who singled me out personaly... you even named the thread after me... you are the one who takes and makes things personal.
This is all fine as I am a shallow and insensive person but.. what was your point? I am mean to the mouse weilders? Ok, I am... now what? address my points. Have a point yourself...
Besides... how right can you be? jakal agrees with you.
but go ahead... start another thread with your ideas.. this one doesn't seem to be working out for you.. as you say, 99% of us don't get it. In our ignorance we just thought it was another strat sissy making another humorless personal attack to cover his frustration and shame at not being able to fly with the noble furballers.
oh... and deja/mini... I do stick to the "impact" point. And... I do stick to the "map opportunities" point.
Lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
I thought DA was for your sort?
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Originally posted by sourkraut
This is one of the most annoying things in the game - to some there must be nothing more "fun" than coming into a field at 300 AGL in a buff formation.
I am sure these are the same dweebs who used to use the B17 as a suicide bomb.
sigh
IRL some raids was NOE... dambusters raid comes to mind... Sometimes NOE is the only way. And yes its more fun. and more dangerous, tbh why is a NOE bombing mission a problem? at least you dont need to fly above your 3k cap :p
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"Someone that spent an hour vulching a base from a CV wants to pronounce the merit of CV vs close field battles."
An hour vulching ... LOL ... A full hour of vulching the FDBs ... I don't think so ... but feel free to emblish on the facts to keep stirring the pot Mini.
Your emblishments along with your rhetoric is quite tiresome too.
"You guys have been lieing to yourselfs so much you don't even realize you're doing it anymore."
Take a look in the mirror Mini.
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overlag... that is your problem.. you think but you don't understand.
mini di.. is just extra pissy lately because he got his butt kicked in the Oclub by..... GIRLS!
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
overlag... that is your problem.. you think but you don't understand.
mini di.. is just extra pissy lately because he got his butt kicked in the Oclub by..... GIRLS!
lazs
please explain it to me then?
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like muck... I am not fond of two communities.
lazs
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Originally posted by Mini D
Ah... the "leave the CV be" argument.
I'll leave the CV be the day those flying from the CV don't level the base they are "furballing", start vulching and then eventually capture unless someone "ruins" it by sinking the CV.
MiniD
Exactly! The fleet is a threat to any near airfields and the near airfields are a threat to the CV. That`s the way the game is set up. You can`t expect to play in the MA with players who are actualy "Playing" the game as set forth and even remotely expect that if all you want to do is buzz around and point and shoot for 45 minutes or an hour that everyone else will shut down and play "your way".
Don`t want the CV sunk, then get off your dead *** and defend it.:D On the reverse of this if you don`t want to lose a base or two , then by all means deep six the suckers. That`s the way it is and until it`s changed that`s the way it wil be. No amount of whining, sniveling or *****ing changes it.
In the immortal words of Kid Rock... "Life`s a *****, deal with it." :cool:
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Dude,
In the immortal words of Kid Rock... "Life`s a *****, deal with it."
Quoting Kid sweetheart bag - give me a break. I don’t know who’s a bigger loser now, you or him lolh
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Originally posted by mars01
Holy crap Mini,
Every post you have in this thread is so vague, its always "people say" or "everyone does", you say nothing definitive so that no one can call you on the BS your spewing. Your caught up in this furballers conspiracy theory - Yeah we shot Kennedy too - and you cant see that all we want is the ability to log on and find a fun furball. Thats it. No big plot to over throw the MA, no secrete society that is against you. No drama.
Holy crap mars... did you just call me studmuffinue then lump yourself in with the "vague crowd" I was describing? You're mistaking my stereotyping you with you stereotyping you. You do realize that you said "all we want to do is log in and find a furball."... right?When I first started flying AH almost 2 years ago, about 4 or 5 months before the first big map came out, the numbers were around 400 peak and the furballs were many. I thought it was clever how they would spontaneously grow and deplete but you could always find one. The maps were smaller so you didn't have to fly as far to get in one either.
Now the numbers are through the roof, the maps are huge and the furballs are few. A playing style that was the norm, which a large group of AH patrons liked has disappeared except for the few lucky moments when a furball actually occurs. And these are usually stomped out by the suicide fuel porkers. This is the main concern of the furballer.
[/b]Did you just say "this is the main concern of the furballer"!?! Holy **** dude... do you even listen to yourself?
Here's a little bit of info for you: There are 20% more people on at primetime and there are around 40% more kills per tour now than 2 years ago.... and that number has been consistant long before festerma came out... for about 15 months.Its not that hard to understand - but you and beetle certainly seem to make it look that hard.
It is hard to understand because you did not say anything that was actually true in regards to the numbers... all we're left to go on is your "impression" as an "unbiased" "furballer".
Sorry if I sound vague in my reference to "furballers", but if you insist on continually lumping yourselves into the same categories I'm going to oblidge you by treating you all as if you're one idiotic entity.
And slapshot... I apreciate you refering to "my exageration". It may not have been an hour... probably only 50 minutes. And you weren't always vulching... just most of the time. Though... you only saluted when you won and were at the advantage. I respect that.
And... I do like "my Spit V is a mighty match for mutiple suicide dive bombing buff formations. Its my all my fault ... I admit it." being used. Somehow, once again, one person talks about the ability of one plane while another defends with the "multiple planes" argument. No real contridiction there eh? That one is actually your fault.
MiniD
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Originally posted by mars01
Dude,
Quoting Kid sweetheart bag - give me a break. I don’t know who’s a bigger loser now, you or him lolh
If ya on a big search for losers, Wal-Mart has a Christmas sale on mirrors. Your sure to accomplish your mission with one. :D
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I must be mean if beetle, voss and jakal think I am.
mini di... is just being pissy tho because he got beat up ijn the Oclub by...... GIRLS!
lazs
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Lazs,
I never said you were mean. You're a big furry pansy, just like all the other furballers. :D
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"And slapshot... I apreciate you refering to "my exageration". It may not have been an hour... probably only 50 minutes. And you weren't always vulching... just most of the time. Though... you only saluted when you won and were at the advantage. I respect that."
It was more like 30 minutes but that's just semantics. I didn't <> at all during the melee because I didn't have the time to take my hands off the controls ... it wasn't until the CV was sunk and the fight in total came to an end that I sent the <>.
Again ... one of your FDB squaddies reponded with reciprocal <> ... the conditions of the fight didn't seem to bother him. But not Mini ... conditions have to be perfect to receive a salute from you and even then I doubt a <> would be forthcoming ... it doesn't appear to be part of your makeup.
I have been mugged on many occasions by both Mathman and Furious and <> have been exchanged with no conditions attached. You might want to try the tact of making friends, rather than play the constant antagonist and piss people off all the time ... you'll probably feel better.
"And... I do like "my Spit V is a mighty match for mutiple suicide dive bombing buff formations. Its my all my fault ... I admit it." being used. Somehow, once again, one person talks about the ability of one plane while another defends with the "multiple planes" argument. No real contridiction there eh? That one is actually your fault."
You brought up the notion of "base defense" ... I addressed it, albeit short, but I thought that you could extrapolate and see my point. Guess not.
Let me expand ... I personally do more base defense than any other aspect of this game. My preferred ride is the Spit V. When I am defending, and mutiple formations of suicide dive bombing buffs are converging onto the field, the ammo loadout cannot suppress all of them ... ergo under most conditions its impossible to stop the "pork". Thats the point I was trying to make.
The point of "why don't you defend your field" is, and always will be, a weak point because when a horde of suicide porkin dweebs decends upon a base, there really is nothing that can be done to stop it and everybody knows it ... including you. Save that point for a noob.
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Originally posted by Mini D
I like the way people say how they fly, say what they want, claim they do certain things and then prove otherwise once they actually put the gear up. Someone from the 13th just said that people didn't used to run from fights. Someone that spent an hour vulching a base from a CV wants to pronounce the merit of CV vs close field battles.
This is getting downright pathetic. In a single post someone can insist that they aren't trying to affect how other people play then complain that people aren't playing the way they'd like. People are arguing using rhetoric so much that they are simply not thinking about what it is they are saying. Tiresome does not even begin to cover it.
You guys have been lieing to yourselfs so much you don't even realize you're doing it anymore. Now you're trying to convince people that the lies you're trying to tell yourselves are really truths.... while demonstrating otherwise.
Excuse me for calling you out on it.
MiniD
Ya know....I've always thought a grown man kiddin himself was a sad thing....stop kiddin yourself Deja.
You're just pissed cause the 13th owns your cheap hide and you die alot to the guns of the 13th...it's ok man...it's a game ya know.
I think you just like to argue....this is the only point made....everyone should have fun and the map design and gameplay should afford that to both camps as much as possible...why you have a problem with that or us is prolly known to only you and your therapist....deep breaths man...deep breaths.:)
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Now, I've never personally met the man, but I hear good things about him.
I would just like to say two things.
I have met Lazs, and I like him. A lot.
Ok.. that was 3 things.
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I'll try to be breif
sparks... so you agree with everything I say you just don'tlike the way I say it?
Most of what you say in terms of fuel porking but otherwise - correct.
I'm not too fond of the british wall-O-words posts either but what are ya gonna do?
The usual anti-british jab and in-yer-face bar room taunt - Its not my BBS - I'm going to do absolutely nothing.
point is... the strat girls need the furballers... they need to have an effect on the noble furballers or their presence in the game has no meaning... we would all ignore them.
No we don't need you in fact, if as you say, you only want to fight other Furballers then you only confuse the picture and get in the way.
The strat element wants to effect the fighters. The fighter element never advocates having an effedt on the strat players.
Complete bollocks - the strat element wants to play the game as supplied - I'm not interesting in porking fuel because it will ruin someones fun - that is absurd. Fighter pilots do however use thousands of perk points to up 163's to take down my buffs which are doing nothing you are interested in ????
Just answer two questions:-
1. If it is such a problem what is wrong with two arenas with the same terrain on the same rotation - one for strat play and one with unkillable resources?
2. AH has been a strategic game since I've been playing it (early beta). After all this time why do you think HTC haven't done away with strat or at least built in a furball area in the arena??
Sparks
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Sparks, I really think most of the problem would go away if the huge imbalance between fuel destruction and fuel resupply were fixed.
I'm not a strat guy, but I'm certainly not aware of any other "strat feature" of the game where on guy can make two passes and knock a resource down to 25% AND where it then takes 1 guy 7 sorites (or 7 guys one sortie) to bring that resource back up to just 50%.
Where else is this disproportionate effort required? One guy flattens the fuel at a small base in 10-15 minutes and it takes 7 10-15 minute sorties to resupply up to just 50%?
There's the problem, I think.
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What about a concession, here, Toad?
Instead of changing resupply, what if the fuel tanks were put underground, and required 500lbs of ordinance to destroy?
(BTW, what is their hardness now?)
My point is, something like this could serve a double purpose. It would bring heavy bombers back into the game, requiring people to either learn how to bomb, or stop all together.
Heaving bombing is too time consuming for dweebs who suicide just to watch things 'splode. Add to this a change in bombers where you cannot drop in a climb or dive and we're fixing 2 problems at once.
Furballers fuel is safer from all the but the better bomber pilots. Bombers get put back in the game.
Add some more fuel tanks also, so that it requires more teamwork to kill the fuel.
Just a thought.
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Originally posted by Toad
Sparks, I really think most of the problem would go away if the huge imbalance between fuel destruction and fuel resupply were fixed.
I'm not a strat guy, but I'm certainly not aware of any other "strat feature" of the game where on guy can make two passes and knock a resource down to 25% AND where it then takes 1 guy 7 sorites (or 7 guys one sortie) to bring that resource back up to just 50%.
Where else is this disproportionate effort required? One guy flattens the fuel at a small base in 10-15 minutes and it takes 7 10-15 minute sorties to resupply up to just 50%?
There's the problem, I think.
defend the bloody resources in the first place and you wouldnt have to resupply it :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Overlag
defend the bloody resources in the first place and you wouldnt have to resupply it :rolleyes:
^^ SHACK!
... or whatever that bloody furballer code word is. Overlag beat me to it. As I have said, further up this thread, another way of looking at it is that it only takes one guy to fly a buff formation to do some major damage - far more than a lone fighter could do - but then it only need take one guy flying something like a F6F or F4U to stop him.
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Muck, your answer is to make it take as long to reduce fuel 25% as it does to resupply it 25%?
Interesting.. so given that it takes seven 10-15 minute sorties to resupply 25%, you now want it to take twenty-one 10-15 minute sorties to take fuel from 100% to 25% using jabos? Or a commensurate amount of effort from multiple heavy bomber sorties?
Be interesting to see how the strat oriented folks react to that suggestion.
Overlag, LOL!
Let's see YOU defend a field against diving fuel suiciders!
Go ahead, answer the original question:
Where else in the game is their such an imbalance between destruction and resupply?
Then we'll talk.
Same to you Beet. There's a huge imbalance and you folks choose to ignore it. If it took one 1 hour bomber sortie to level country radar and seven hours of resupply to bring it back up 25%, I'm thinking you wouldn't even try to defend or ignore such an imbalance. Yet do routinely ignore the fuel destruction/resupply imbalance. It's laughable.
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Toad, There only imposible to get once they've started there dive... Defend the base's sector and dont even let them get near it
problem solved. :rolleyes:
And about the resupply... I thought this game was suppose to be (slightly) realistic? In real life the same goes...blow something up, and it takes weeks/months/years to rebuild....
WTC fell in under 2 hours
Did they resupply it and rebuild it in 2 hours? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Toad
Same to you Beet. There's a huge imbalance and you folks choose to ignore it. If it took one 1 hour bomber sortie to level country radar and seven hours of resupply to bring it back up 25%, I'm thinking you wouldn't even try to defend or ignore such an imbalance. Yet do routinely ignore the fuel
destruction/resupply imbalance. It's laughable.
err Hello? it takes 2 hours lets say on a large map to get to the HQ, it takes 10 minutes for it to be rebuilt. Is that balanced towards the strat guy? NO thats balanced to you whiny furballers because without dar you cant find your useless to the "war effort" furball. :mad:
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The destruction/resupply equation is a huge imbalance. It's a flaw.
You can't get around that fact.
Given the lemming hordes, there's no defending fuel. It's far to easy to destroy and essentially impossible to defend from suicide jabo's. It's pointless.
Further, strategically, the BARRACKS is far more important to "winning the war" than fuel. Yet you don't see the porking of troops, do you?
Where fuel is important is when some folks try to avoid any sort of opposition.
I can see where this would be a vital interest to some.
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beeetle..... you called me a pansy? I knew we shoulda wrist wrestled when you were here
But we are getting away from the important things here... What kind of a childhood would be so terrible that when that child grew up he would want to do ..... strat?
Make it so the fuel can never go below 50% or perk bombs. you can't stop people from being griefers or stop em from being talentless but you can make it LESS profitable for them.
lazs
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i wont defend suicide jabo's, they are the scum of the earth.
but theres no way that the destruction/resupply equation is a huge imbalance.
The whole point of this game is to defend and attack.
without fuel you cant defend.
Im sure you must be flying a different game because i dont have too much trouble defending bases, but then im not stuck in a furball under 3k :p
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Originally posted by Overlag
And about the resupply... I thought this game was suppose to be (slightly) realistic? In real life the same goes...blow something up, and it takes weeks/months/years to rebuild....
WTC fell in under 2 hours
Did they resupply it and rebuild it in 2 hours? :rolleyes:
What is it with the horrible analogies lately? Good God.
There's nothing realistic about suicidally plowing into a ground target and then magically and instantly reincarnating to go do it again and again and again. Quality gameplay depends on balance, and an obvious imbalance deserves attention. It doesn't matter if ground targets required minutes, days, or years to repair in real life when you're talking about issues of balance between effective ground attack and air combat in a game.
Worry more about the fidelity of the flight models and the realism of the dive bombing process, but the strat game in Aces High is pure, unadulterated fantasy.
Edit: Sorry, Overlag, I responded before you edited your last reply. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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No imbalance?
Back to the original question.
Where else in the "strat" game can one person knock a resource down to minimum and it then takes seven times as much time/effort to resupply that resource up just 25%?
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overlag... the reason you will never get it is because you think it is not "hard" to defend. I don't know how well you defend but I do know that you are paying a terrible price for it with less than 5 kills per hour and less than 1 kill per sortie.
furballers simply will not pay that price. Can I put it any simpler?
the defense that you find fun would bore us to tears... worse... most of us just leave. we leave after we look around for another good fight.. not a place to defend or attack.... a good fite... we don't care who takes the base so long as there is another fight to go to...
lazs
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Originally posted by Toad
No imbalance?
Back to the original question.
Where else in the "strat" game can one person knock a resource down to minimum and it then takes seven times as much time/effort to resupply that resource up just 25%?
it only takes one person to defend that resource, and since you cant be botherd to defend it, you say its unfair? :rolleyes:
and how is it seven times as much time/effort to resupply?
Originally posted by lazs2
overlag... the reason you will never get it is because you think it is not "hard" to defend. I don't know how well you defend but I do know that you are paying a terrible price for it with less than 5 kills per hour and less than 1 kill per sortie.
furballers simply will not pay that price. Can I put it any simpler?
the defense that you find fun would bore us to tears... worse... most of us just leave. we leave after we look around for another good fight.. not a place to defend or attack.... a good fite... we don't care who takes the base so long as there is another fight to go to...
lazs
well the price you have to pay is having no fuel then. Dont whine about balance......
You guys are just like the Counterstrike players that put me off that, you dont care about objectives, and when someone does, they are lamers, campers or some other stupid name.
People that try and play the game the way its ment to be played are wrong and you "no objectives matter" type players are always right.
If you dont want to defend targets, dont whine when they die.
thanks :lol
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The over-simplification of "defending" a base is incredible.
"it only takes one person to defend that resource ..."
You can't be serious Overlag. Since when does the enemy line up in single file and await their turn to attack a base.
I can see them all out there ...
"Well ... I only see 3 uppers, so we will only send 3 of our suicide dweebs in ... whos wants to go first."
The object of their game is to go emasse(horde) and dive thru any and all defenders ... at all costs ... to hit their mark and die immediately after. Some don't make it thru the defense, but the majority do ... that is the reason for attacking enmasse.
If all of us that are discussing this topic were noobs, you might be able to slip that argument thru ... but guess what ?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The object of their game is to go emasse(horde) and dive thru any and all defenders ... at all costs ... to hit their mark and die immediately after. Some don't make it thru the defense, but the majority do ... that is the reason for attacking enmasse.
im not talking about this type of play. Ive said that many times already. Im talking about the tactical missions or base capture missions. Anyway, most sucide Jabos are single piliots without squads anyway.
and when i say one person can defend a base i mean 1v1... 1 defender will make the Jabo drop his bombs so he can fight. That means the main battle has been won, the Jabo is no longer a Jabo.
And due to bugs in Buffs, most 1on3s against bombers often ends up with the buff dead.
I say again:
Its not hard, just because you dont want to defend, dont whine about strat guys and stop saying its unfair
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overlag... you are missing the point... the way you play is boring... it is boring because you aren't doing anything... you tell us that the way to enjoy the game is to play as you do... and even if we did.. It wouldn't stop suicide fuel porkers.
as for defending.... I am not very good but you could not defend from me suicideing into the fuel. you would be wasting your time waiting for me because I would still do it. That is the imbalance. How can you say that it is right to have fuel porking be so easy?
The only real strat in AH is... the country with the largest numbers "wins the war"... put any pretty face on it you want but us furballers have learned that years ago. to resist when you are down just prolongs the inevitable.. and... makes for crappy gameplay.
I won't play if I have to end up with stats like yours.
lazs
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well stop moaning then :o
Its not hard, just because you dont want to defend, dont whine about strat guys and stop saying its unfair
anyway, WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING about bloody suicide porkers IM not.
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Horsepuckey.
If a jabo comes in with alt on you, dives in and drops, you can't stop him consistently. Unless you get really lucky,you can't stop him very often.
I see you're UK based. Do you play much in US primetime when there's 500 players on? "Defending" takes on a bit of a different meaning then too.
You still haven't addressed the original question, either. Both you and Beet seem to always dodge the real issue.
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Originally posted by Toad
Horsepuckey.
If a jabo comes in with alt on you, dives in and drops, you can't stop him consistently. Unless you get really lucky,you can't stop him very often.
I see you're UK based. Do you play much in US primetime when there's 500 players on? "Defending" takes on a bit of a different meaning then too.
You still haven't addressed the original question, either. Both you and Beet seem to always dodge the real issue.
i play 24/7 (well not in one day)
the only hours ive NOT be on is between 7am and 9am :eek:
And whats the real issue? The one where it takes "7" (where you got that number from i dont know) times the effort to rebuild something? So What, it took me, and other "real" strat players an hour to get to our target, and you fix it in 10 minutes, i dont realy SEE a problem :( Other than its too easy to resupply things :p
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Originally posted by lazs2
I must be mean if beetle, voss and jakal think I am.
mini di... is just being pissy tho because he got beat up ijn the Oclub by...... GIRLS!
lazs
Well Geee whilakers Humpy, I never said ya was mean. I think maybe you wish you could be, but I put you in the Pee Wee Herman class of mean.
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jakal... I guess saying that you "think" was a gross exageration on my part.
lazs
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Originally posted by Overlag
i play 24/7 (well not in one day)
the only hours ive NOT be on is between 7am and 9am :eek:
And whats the real issue? The one where it takes "7" (where you got that number from i dont know) times the effort to rebuild something? So What, it took me, and other "real" strat players an hour to get to our target, and you fix it in 10 minutes, i dont realy SEE a problem :( Other than its too easy to resupply things :p
A few points here:
You didn't comment on stopping the higher jabo diving through your alt with much more E. You agree, I take it?
Do you play consistently in US primetime? I think pretty much everyone agrees it's quite a different game between Europe PT and US PT due to the far greater numbers in US PT.
The 7 number comes from actual experimentation on Trinity a while back.
As to your complaint, you merely highlight what anyone that steps back and looks at the problem already knows. AH strat is pretty much meaningless and totally imbalanced with no relation whatsoever to reality.
I take it you reference killing dar. It takes you an hour to do it and they repair it in ten minutes. Maybe, I don't know because dar is meaningless to me, so I never bother to bomb HQ.
I assume you're using apples to apples for this. It takes one player one hour to kill the dar. OK, now how many player minutes does it take to restore it? One player flying 6 ten minute sorties? Or six players flying 1 ten minute sortie each?
Assuming you have made a fair comparison, if it takes one player 1 hour to kill dar but only one player to fix it in ten minutes then we have another example of the imbalance in AH strat, don't we?
Except THIS time, the imbalance is the OTHER way. It's far easier to fix the dar than kill the dar whereas it's far easier to kill the fuel than fix the fuel.
Again this highlights just how porked the entire strat system is in AH.
So, I'd guess you'd agree the whole thing needs a serious review and overhaul, right?
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Originally posted by Toad
Given the lemming hordes, there's no defending fuel. It's far to easy to destroy and essentially impossible to defend from suicide jabo's. It's pointless.
Hehe, now you're beginning to see why I don't like bases too close together. That lemming crap and the conveyor belting is so much more feasible when they are. Of course, on QWW, the next base is within pissing distance, so it makes bugger all difference. But on maps like BI and pizza, the distance between fields is a challenge to the A.D.D. lemmings, who forget why they've taken off after 5 minutes in flight. All week on Pizza, I've only seen one base fuel porked to 25%.
But you wanted fields closer together - you have it. You've made your bed, and now you must lie in it. Didn't someone once say "Be careful what you wish for - you might just get it"? ;)
Nice to see you back, Mr. T. You seem much more relaxed than a few weeks ago. Clearly those hunting runs with your limey Kates are having a good effect on you. :)
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Originally posted by lazs2
I won't play if I have to end up with stats like yours.
lazs
Since when did stats come into play?
You've always screamed you could care less about the stats.
The mantra you've always shouted was "The fight's the thing".
Well, that and "Move the bases closer".
Overlag-
You can't stop the fuel porkers with defence. Its that simple. The only way it's feasible is with overwhelming odds..say 4 defenders for every 1 attacker.
What about the idea of perking bombs on Jabos, and making it so the heavies have to be level when the release their bombs?
If you survive as a jabo, you get your perks back.
Seems simple and fair.
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Originally posted by lazs2
jakal... I guess saying that you "think" was a gross exageration on my part.
lazs
Well I`m just suprised you could spell think Humpy, because the actual doing of it seems to be out of your reach.
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Originally posted by beet1e
But you wanted fields closer together - you have it. You've made your bed, and now you must lie in it.
On FesterMA, absolutely! I have it and I love it! I'll lie in that bed in the MA until the end of AH.
Too bad ALL the maps aren't as well designed for ALL PLAYERS TO ENJOY as FesterMA has proven to be.
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Originally posted by Toad
Too bad ALL the maps aren't as well designed for ALL PLAYERS TO ENJOY as FesterMA has proven to be.
That`s a "too bad" I can live with.
If all the maps were filled with Lalas and N1kdaddies with the HO switch locked to "ON" position I`m afraid the game wouldn`t last long.
All I have yet to see on that map is a horde at one base with little or no defense while one base over another horde is doing the same thing to that base.
I think it was a great effort, but just not working.
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Oh, you don't see hordes hitting defenseless bases on AKD or BI or Trin?
:rofl
What FesterMA DOES is allow everyone, strat and furballer alike, to "do their thing".
That's a rare quality in a big map... in fact, FMA is the ONLY big map that really allows that.
I now believe Laz is right; what the strats don't like about FMA is that they can capture the world, win the war and get the Hawaiian vacation...... and the furballers won't notice.
Wham, Bam, reset and the fight goes right on non-stop without a hitch.
THAT'S what I think bugs most of the "win one fer the gipper" guys.
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Originally posted by Toad
Oh, you don't see hordes hitting defenseless bases on AKD or BI or Trin?
:rofl
What FesterMA DOES is allow everyone, strat and furballer alike, to "do their thing".
That's a rare quality in a big map... in fact, FMA is the ONLY big map that really allows that.
I now believe Laz is right; what the strats don't like about FMA is that they can capture the world, win the war and get the Hawaiian vacation...... and the furballers won't notice.
Wham, Bam, reset and the fight goes right on non-stop without a hitch.
THAT'S what I think bugs most of the "win one fer the gipper" guys.
Much less hording on pizza. But I think turning off bardar would make things better. I asked for this more than a year ago. QWW for the strat player is like the DA for the furballers. Neither group wants to follow the suggestion of the other to go there. Stratting on QWW is a bit pointless when there are other fields within 2 minutes, and de-acking a base and/or levelling a town takes minutes - even if the effort is coordinated. And the LA7/N1K conveyor belt will be rolling at full stretch to try and stop it.
As for the furballers not noticing when QWW gets reset, erm... somehow I think they will. Rooks did it during the last QWWW, and QWW was replaced by Mindano. That's the "new way" these days when an adult map gets reset - it is replaced by a children's map.
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Originally posted by Toad
Oh, you don't see hordes hitting defenseless bases on AKD or BI or Trin?
:rofl
What FesterMA DOES is allow everyone, strat and furballer alike, to "do their thing".
Not talking about hordes hitting bases. I`m talking about hordes of lalas and N1kdaddies in HO mode fighting 1 or 2 over by one base while the same lame watermelon is going on a few miles over in reverse.
If that`s your def of furballing, you can have it. lmao
As far as what it allows........ It allows and promotes dweebery in it`s highest form.
Have a blast on it though if that`s your thing. I can live with it for a week or until it`s reset. No biggy.
I got a couple of shootin irons that needs reblueing and a bow that needs restringing..........or maybe just JB weld the HO switch to "ON" on a IIC and go delirious with pleasure. :rofl
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Originally posted by Toad
A few points here:
You didn't comment on stopping the higher jabo diving through your alt with much more E. You agree, I take it?
20k is normaly enough, unless your fighting rooks, who are normaly about 40k ;)
Originally posted by Toad
Do you play consistently in US primetime? I think pretty much everyone agrees it's quite a different game between Europe PT and US PT due to the far greater numbers in US PT.
for 6-8 months i used to play 10-5am UK time, thats US (east) prime time the numbers start going down around 4:30am ive noticed. I used to play 10ish hours a day...
now, i cant, i have full time hours for xmas, so im having to get up in the mornings :eek: Which means im playing about 8-10am or 11pm till 2am at most....Im getting like only 2hours a day now. :(
Originally posted by Toad
The 7 number comes from actual experimentation on Trinity a while back.
As to your complaint, you merely highlight what anyone that steps back and looks at the problem already knows. AH strat is pretty much meaningless and totally imbalanced with no relation whatsoever to reality.
I take it you reference killing dar. It takes you an hour to do it and they repair it in ten minutes. Maybe, I don't know because dar is meaningless to me, so I never bother to bomb HQ.
I assume you're using apples to apples for this. It takes one player one hour to kill the dar. OK, now how many player minutes does it take to restore it? One player flying 6 ten minute sorties? Or six players flying 1 ten minute sortie each?
Assuming you have made a fair comparison, if it takes one player 1 hour to kill dar but only one player to fix it in ten minutes then we have another example of the imbalance in AH strat, don't we?
Except THIS time, the imbalance is the OTHER way. It's far easier to fix the dar than kill the dar whereas it's far easier to kill the fuel than fix the fuel.
Again this highlights just how porked the entire strat system is in AH.
So, I'd guess you'd agree the whole thing needs a serious review and overhaul, right?
yes, the whole strat thing is messed up... IE resupplying, How comes if i knock the HQ totaly down, its repairable with "7" resupplys, yet if i mess up and MISS it and only take out one or two parts, its impossible to resupply? Thats another stupid thing.
Strat does need a rework, i agree, but theres no way you need to punish bombers even more. "Normal" players that are not suicide jabos, and should not be punished for a few Japs errrr Suicide people :(
I think maybe that idea (forgot whos it was) where theres a Big town (say 10miles X 10miles) this, is the "zone" field which has fuel/ammo/aaa/radar/troops strat. This is then coverd in ACK, and impossible to Jabo. These strats will be 2-3times bigger than the current strat factories. When these are down say 50% all the bases in the zone are down 50%. The City that is spread around the factories fixes them automaticaly, no resupplys needed. But if the City its self is down it all takes longer to repair (like now)
But Each base in this zone has its own supply that lasts 30-60minutes on its own.
Troops/Radar/Ord should be totaly local though, if the fields supply dies it dies for the 30minutes
I dunno... :confused:
Yes i agree it needs reworking. It needs reworking to make it more defendable, for fighters. While also more realistic or fun for bombers.
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Originally posted by Overlag
yes, the whole strat thing is messed up...
There you go! You've GOT IT! Congrats!
It's what my side of the discussion has been pointing out since post one. ;)
Jack, if that's all you can find for a furball, come fly with us sometime. We'll show you where the Iron Crosses grow. Your comment is another one of those that make me wonder if the folks on this board all play the same game. Oh, and if you want to learn to use the other guy's HO to your advantage, look us up some squad night and I'm sure the guys will give you a hand.
Beet, if you ever have something to say, I'll reply.
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What I meant by "stats" was not score... obviously these stat guys spend a whole bunch of time doing nothing or.... to a furballer, doing nothing...
They say that to preserve our wayu of play (furballing) we have to defend "sectors".... essentially... do nothing for long periods of time in late war planes at high alt and then kill suicide porkers who couldn't give you a good fite even if they had a bomb.
that is what I meant by if I have to have stats like yours I would just as soon not play.
the strat guys say that the only way we should be able to play is their way. Festers map proves the obvious...
given the planeset and the game... closer fileds are the only worthwhile comprimise for gameplay for all.
lazs
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I personally think that far more than the strat is messed up. We have a game with more than 70 planes - and yet 25% of the planes in flight at any time will come from the P51/Spit/LA7/N1K/TYPH subset. If that isn't a mess up, I don't know what is.
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Yet you continue to support and enthusiastially promote a strat system and tactics that make the early war and part of the mid-war planeset essentially unusable on the big maps.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Toad
Yet you continue to support and enthusiastially promote a strat system and tactics that make the early war and part of the mid-war planeset essentially unusable on the big maps.
:rofl
Oh yeah? And you were so full of how QWW with the fields so close together was going to foster the conditions under which early war planes could survive and make an impact. So what happened? Wall to wall LA7s and N1Ks, that's what. Yep, you really would make a good politician. :lol:lol
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Originally posted by Toad
Your comment is another one of those that make me wonder if the folks on this board all play the same game. Oh, and if you want to learn to use the other guy's HO to your advantage, look us up some squad night and I'm sure the guys will give you a hand
Same game, just that some actualy "play" the game while some jump in momentarily and participate in one minute part of the game and contribute absolutely nothing.
As for using the other guys HO to your advantage...........well that`s my point. When it`s "you" against 10 t0 15 others in a HO horde it makes no difference where you turn there`s someone there willing to do the same lame chit.
That`s what the map promotes. It encourages new players to come in and not learn for 2 weeks, just dweeb horde then go on to play online monopoly or read the latest on Britney.com.
But hey I still have some JB Weld and I can adapt till it`s over. After one round of this map the HO factor has multiplyed 10 fold and carried over to the other maps.
If this is what trips your trigger , then by all means have it it.
We can watch the vets drop out like they have been in a rate exceeding the newbies who actual stay after trial period and watch a great sim become extinct as so many others have.
AH is not put online for amusement only for the passers by, it`s a business.
When it gets down to the 2 weekers and the old greenbacks stops flowing then it`s no more fun in Happy Town.
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Originally posted by lazs2
What I meant by "stats" was not score... obviously these stat guys spend a whole bunch of time doing nothing or.... to a furballer, doing nothing...
They say that to preserve our wayu of play (furballing) we have to defend "sectors".... essentially... do nothing for long periods of time in late war planes at high alt and then kill suicide porkers who couldn't give you a good fite even if they had a bomb.
that is what I meant by if I have to have stats like yours I would just as soon not play.
the strat guys say that the only way we should be able to play is their way. Festers map proves the obvious...
given the planeset and the game... closer fileds are the only worthwhile comprimise for gameplay for all.
lazs
Gotcha-Thanks for th clarification.
Even though I consider myself a strat player, it IS much too boring for anyone to wander about a sector, waiting for some dweeb in a suicide jabo that may or may not show up, to just come screaming past you as he dives in for a sure death on the fuel.
Guys, admit it. It's hard as hell to stop a suicider. Now, if I KNEW they were coming, and I knew they would put up a fight, that would be another story. Hopefully, this is what we'll see in TOD.
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When I first came to AH from WB, I initially missed the RPS and the opportunity it afforded for early war planes. Actually I suggested on these forums that an RPS be implemented for this purpose, but this was met with general disapproval. But lazs brings up a good point, that closer fields has the same effect without the game-killing effects of an RPS. So I think having closer fields is a good thing for that reason.
I am not a strat guy myself, at least in the MA, so I do not fully understand why exactly Fester's map or having some close fields is an impediment to strategy, or is less fun when played strategically. Even after reading all these posts. Beet1e, I think that your point "some maps for stratters and some for furballers" has merit; but what I still don't understand is why there has to be a split at all. Could the strat folks explain exactly what makes Fester bad or no fun? Not for the purposes of disparagement of play style, only for understanding.
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Originally posted by lazs2
the strat guys say that the only way we should be able to play is their way. Festers map proves the obvious...
lazs
Rubbish
i dont tell you to fly bombers, do what you please. its your $$$$.
But i do wish i saw more "tactical" flying in this game... Rarely do i see loads of base captures without missions and someone leading them (well thats while i was knight anyway) at least Bish do missions ;)
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If my country is being hit hard by hordes then yeah I'll go and pork their fuel to try and slow them down a bit. That's something I learned a long time ago.
However, if furballers want to scorn me for porking fuel then so be it, but fuel is a legitimate target and I carry bombs.... boom and most of the time I make it out alive - I never intend to die. But the problem isn't with me being able to pork fuel, afterall HTC have designed the game that way and until they change it (e.g. increasing fuel bunkers) then why are Jabo pilots being whined at and not HTC? No guts?
Often I've flown into a base, alone, with lots of enemy planes in that area. Mostly they just let you fly by because they don't want to lose time reaching their furball/vulch. So perhaps if 'some' furballers actually tried defending or resupplying a base then they might have some fuel left. Do people wait until a radar dot is in vis range before they try and up from an airfield, which by then is far too late!?! I use fuel porking as a last resort, afterall if I intend on capturing that base I want it fully intact.
So, if I decide we're being gangbanged or need some breathing space I'll go and pork your fuel. If you don't like it then tough, go and fly in the CT (which is a furballers delight, especially lately!). ;)
I'm growing so tired of the continual whining about how you think other people should fly. I'm an easy going person but the more I hear about this crap the less respect I have for some people.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by lazs2
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's [/B]
LAz you work for Burger King? :p
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Originally posted by beet1e
fields so close together was going to foster the conditions under which early war planes could survive and make an impact.
As usual, you read what you wanted to read if that's what you think I said.
I said it would make the early war planes usable, and it does. They really aren't usable on the spread field big maps.
But you won't be able to figure that out either.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
That`s what the map promotes. It encourages new players to come in and not learn for 2 weeks, just dweeb horde then go on to play online monopoly or read the latest on Britney.com.
If that's true, it makes it no different in that respect than any other big map.
You get the same behaviors on all maps.
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Originally posted by Toad
If that's true, it makes it no different in that respect than any other big map
.
Phhhhttttttttttttttt! Even Orville and Wilbur couldn`t make that fly.:D
That dog won`t hunt bud.
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Jackal - great posts. I think we ought to run up the BS flag for our friend, Mr. Toad.
Mold - read this post (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97759) which was one of mine about initial observations of gameplay on the QWW map.
Quotes from that thread -
* I admit I vulch, and I do it well.
* lots of good vulches!
* Good flights, plus good vulching
* it just seems to be mass vulch and roll to the next base sessions.
* Mob mentality is taken to the nth degree on this map.
* I've never seen so many low bomber dweebs as came out of A21 to hit A2 and later the other Knight bases to the east. No aiming, let alone calibration, they just dropped into the dirt with the fighters and car bombed the fields. It was crap and they were easily killed.
* Supreme excellence consists of a good vulch.
* He's right, it is a huge vulch fest but I had fun doing so. Im afraid it may wear off soon if you play enough.
* Gotta say though the Quake style furballing thing gets old pretty quickly for me and this map seem to encourage it even more than the others
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:D :aok
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Thanks for the link Beet1e, I will take a look at it.
In the meantime, I have an idea for solving the pork-auger problem. Perking bombs doesn't seem like the right way to go about this--it's like perking bullets in a fighter. Furthermore, I don't think it would solve the problem--people would still pork/auger with bullets, and even with bombs if they don't care about "the next time".
But here's another idea: how about making it so that, if the plane that dropped the bombs dies within 1 minute (adjustable of course) of the bomb drop, all damage from their bombs is negated? In fact this could be applied to any type of ground damage from a plane, including bullets--so it could take care of suicide de-ackers as well! Also this would automatically take care of dive-lancs and noe-forts. It wouldn't take care of ackstars, but that is a type of dweebery I haven't seen at all yet in AH (don't know if I should be surprised at that :D ).
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yep... if you look hard enough you might find 1 20th as many anti fester map post as you will find anti pizza or big isles...
face it... you guys want the big maps with far fields cause you can't cut it. Even with the fastest planes you can't cut it.. you need more of an advantage... closer fields take a tiny bit of your advantage away.
lazs
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How would you know lazs... you've played fester's map... what... 2 times?
The same people have been bashing the AK map for so long that it's just become accepted. Somehow, even "big-isles" is deemed better by some doing all the bashing simply because they know they are supposed to hate the AK map. Now, people that haven't even played fester's map are supporting it and touting it as better than the AK map.
You ever wonder why I use the term "liars"?
MiniD
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Originally posted by lazs2
face it... you guys want the big maps with far fields cause you can't cut it. Even with the fastest planes you can't cut it..
Lazs,
Are you accusing myself and MiniD of relying on the fastest planes? What exactly are those fastest planes? Would we be talking about the P51 and LA7? Because I've just looked at my stats and MiniD's stats for this tour and last, and neither of us flies the P51 or the LA7. For the most part, Mini has flown the Hurr-2 and I've been flying the 109F4 (a 1940 plane), the 109G2 and the F6F.
I do sometimes fly the 109G10 for survivability. It is quite fast, but not as fast as the Yak-9U of which you are so fond. I take it you fly the Yak9U when winging with Apache? So... a very fast plane and help...
A little more research needed on your end? :aok:cool:
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep... if you look hard enough you might find 1 20th as many anti fester map post as you will find anti pizza or big isles...
face it... you guys want the big maps with far fields cause you can't cut it. Even with the fastest planes you can't cut it.. you need more of an advantage... closer fields take a tiny bit of your advantage away.
lazs
LMAO Now where did that little gem of an idea come from? :rofl
Got absolutely nothing to do with fast planes, slow planes, parked planes, GVs, CVs, go-karts or pogo sticks.
It`s the dweebery the map produces.
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jakal.. beetle quoted people talking about festers map.. I am saying that it is at least 20 /1 more complaints for the pizza and big isles maps. I think deja is being silly saying that people are complaining about pizza and big isles because.... well because what? it is the cool thing to do? No... they are frustrated and bored with the lack of action on those maps. I have plenty of time on those maps and they are horrible most of the time.
It is possible to find action on em but it is never a given.. lots of long flights to nowehere.. I have only played festers map 3 times but there was allways a variety of fights available... the difference was huge... everyone who is honest sees it. Hoping I will have more time to play when festers brilliant map comes up again.
Ya know..... I bet Fester could fix the pizza and big isles maps in one afternoon.
lazs
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Lazs - if only you could focus upon more than a subset of the game. I know you're not interested in bombers, jabo, troops, boats, ship guns, field guns, shore batteries or vehicles - you're not interested and/or are bored with MOST of the game, and certainly most of the maps. But now even your attention span in fighters seems to be fading. Try to think of the whole flight, and not just the 15 seconds of each sortie during each which you're pulling the trigger.
We don't want Fester "fixing" the other maps. One Quake-style aberration is more than enough, thank you. We know what YOU want in a map. How about giving some consideration to what the rest of us want?
Ah, I see you're basing your estimates on map popularity on BBS postings. It doesn't work like that. The BBS posters are not a representative sample of the total AH subscribership. Have you ever wondered why HTC put night back into the game despite the BBS whines? Well read this paragraph again, and I think you'll find the answer. :D
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ya know..... I bet Fester could fix the pizza and big isles maps in one afternoon
lazs
Fix as in "fixed" like Lala/N1kdaddi Ma? :D
That kind of "fixing" we can live without. A couple more maps "fixed" like that and the sim will be "fixed", as in "don`t exist anymore.
The map blows chunks. It only promotes pure dweebery. That`s all it can possibly do. It`s silly and ..well childish.
Something that`s not broken don`t need "fixing".
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Actually, I think about half the maps in the rotation should be like FesterMA.
Until an official poll is taken of course.
Then 7 out of 10 maps in the rotation should be like FesterMA.
:lol
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How embarassing it must be to repeatedly admit that you cannot beat nikis, spits and la7s.
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no one has yet explained to me how festers map stops anyone from playing any way they like. It is apparent tho that most of the other maps ruin gameplay for a lot of players.
lazs
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Originally posted by Furious
How embarassing it must be to repeatedly admit that you cannot beat nikis, spits and la7s.
I see you're another one who assumes that if someone observes a disproportionate number of any given aircraft type, that the plaintiff cannot beat those types. That's not the point at all. If it were true, I wouldn't get any kills at all because all I see these days are N1Ks Spits & LA7. Oh and a few P51s of course.
BTW the correct spelling is "embarrassing", and please avoid the split infinitive. It makes me wince. Originally posted by lazs2
no one has yet explained to me how festers map stops anyone from playing any way they like.
No-one has given me an explanation for why you don't go to the DA.
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THAT'S all it takes?
I think our mission is clear:
to boldly go where no man has gone before
and make Beet wince all the time!
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Originally posted by Toad
THAT'S all it takes?
I think our mission is clear:
to boldly go where no man has gone before
and make Beet wince all the time!
ROFL Toad! :lol
I miss you when you go on those long trips. :D
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Originally posted by: Lazs
no one has yet explained to me how festers map stops anyone from playing any way they like. It is apparent tho that most of the other maps ruin gameplay for a lot of players.
They can't the biggest problem they have with Fester's map is it's too hard.
Originally posted by: Beet1e
No-one has given me an explanation for why you don't go to the DA.
Yeah people have, it's not what you want to hear so you ignore the answers.
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Originally posted by mars01
Yeah people have, it's not what you want to hear so you ignore the answers.
That was exactly the reception our answers about strat and adequately spaced fields received.
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We don't want Fester "fixing" the other maps. One Quake-style aberration is more than enough, thank you. We know what YOU want in a map. How about giving some consideration to what the rest of us want?
Beet,
You're good humor to fly w/ and hear on local vox.. I enjoy havin you in the area.. but just who the hell is "We" ?
Most people do not like pizza.. imho.
Someone suggested an online poll to resolve the issue once and for all. I love this idea. I cannot understand why HT doesn't do this. Most "for-profit" companies are interested in customer feedback. Maybe there is a plan in place of which I am not aware.
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Originally posted by: Beet1e
That was exactly the reception our answers about strat and adequately spaced fields received.
Oh boy - beetle you should be a politician your double talk and ability to answer a question without saying anything is amazing.
What answers about strat and adequadely spaced fields? The fact that if the fields are too close together it's too hard for you? Yeah I heard your answer, I accept it and it is lame. But you act like no one has answerd your question, when in fact they have. You just don't like/accept the answer so you keep beating the dead horse, "Why don't you guys go to the MA.", Put your whip away.
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I think the "plan" right now is to work feverishly on AH2 and TOD. I doubt the "plan" is to "fix" things that are going to change shortly anyway.
Think of it this way..... there's lots of overdue things that aren't working at all right now. Why work on something that is currently "working" in some form but which will soon be replaced when the overdue things that aren't working now are all working?
You may have to read that more than once.
;)
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Originally posted by Steve
Beet,
You're good humor to fly w/ and hear on local vox.. I enjoy havin you in the area.. but just who the hell is "We" ?
Most people do not like pizza.. imho.
Someone suggested an online poll to resolve the issue once and for all. I love this idea. I cannot understand why HT doesn't do this. Most "for-profit" companies are interested in customer feedback. Maybe there is a plan in place of which I am not aware.
Awwww! I think the answer is that HTC does seek customer feedback, and has on about half a dozen occasions in the time I've been involved with AH. You're saying that "most people do not like pizza". How do you know? How would you know? There are many thousands of subscribers to AH. How many have posted pizza whines? Maybe 50? 100 even? If you're claiming that "most" people do not like pizza, you're doing it by extrapolation from the number of BBS pizza whines. HTC would not consider that accurate and neither would I. That's why they put night back into the game, despite the BBS whines about night.
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Mars01 - I have already said: There's not much point capturing a field on QWW when the opposition has another one just 2 minutes away. Besides, the LA7/N1K conveyor belt will be rolling defence missions, and any strat offensive will turn into a vulchfest. This is the second time I've been asked to point this out, so be a good chap - print this off and keep it beside your PC for the next time you read one of my posts.
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Originally posted by: ME (mars01)
What answers about strat and adequately spaced fields? The fact that if the fields are too close together it's too hard for you? Yeah I heard your answer, I accept it and it is lame.
Originally poste by: beet1e
Mars01 - I have already said: There's not much point capturing a field on QWW when the opposition has another one just 2 minutes away. Besides, the LA7/N1K conveyor belt will be rolling defense missions, and any strat offensive will turn into a vulchfest.
No sht, see my quote or my earlier posting.
Originally poste by: beet1e
This is the second time I've been asked to point this out, so be a good chap - print this off and keep it beside your PC for the next time you read one of my posts.
Didn't ask you to point it out again, already said I accept your point, and it is lame. We all know why you don't like Fester's map. "It's too hard to play strat now." whaaaaaa
Like I have said before, at least there is still a strat game to be played. On Pizza Crap there are no furballs to be had. If it wasnt for the CVs on Big Isle we'd have the same problem there too. As is the case when the middle of the map is taken or all your ports.
Next time, be a good chap and read my post, then understand it before you are so fast to answer. Your BS is being spewed even before your brain actually understands what the hell you've just read.
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Beetle,
That is your problem, your pic/example is not even close to a furball. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you actually knew what a furball was. Not it. Multiply the cons by a factor of 5 or 10 then you have a furball.
So whats that, not scottish mist, boring pizza.
And on Pizza Crap it's not a matter of too hard to find, they don't exist, period!
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Originally posted by mars01
That is your problem, your pic/example is not even close to a furball. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you actually knew what a furball was. Not it. Multiply the cons by a factor of 5 or 10 then you have a furball.
You've gotta love the pink icons though. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Oooohhhh I do.
They're sthweeeet.
lolh
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OK Mars - educate me. Post a pic of what a good furball is/should be. Seems like you have very specific parameters which can only be achieved if people are flying your way. :rolleyes:
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Yeah Beet,
Only my specific parameters. Cmon man admit when you are wrong. That is not a furball and if you think it is you are wrong. Every opinion you base on your currently incorrect uderstanding will be wrong. Are your going to actually argue with the furball community, that your incorrect definition of a furball is really what a furball is. Please.
Any way I knew you would try something like this, so I already started a thread.
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Oh come on, Mars. Don't beat around the bush. What's wrong with the pic - why isn't it a furball? Would it help if I moved the planes closer together?
So please - describe to me a furball. I have no dictionary definition. How close do the planes have to be? How high (or low) do they have to be, and what type? Post some screenshots - don't duck the issue. There's a whole bunch of us out here who don't know what you're talking about. What instructions would you give to the guys in my pic to fly your way in order to MAKE this a furball? 5 bish and 4 rooks. How many is a furball? I'm listening carefully, but I'm only getting white noise so far...
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Go to the thread "This is Not a furball" - Lets see what the furball community defines a furball to be, then after that will the strat community accept the definition?
If you want my definition go to the Ecosystem thread started by dtango. I go into details there.
BTW - How the hell am I beeting around the Bush?
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Originally posted by mars01
Yeah Beet,
Are your going to actually argue with the furball community, that your incorrect definition of a furball is really what a furball is.
Now your cooking! You have hit the old proverbial nail on the head.
It`s not being argued with "The furball community". It`s being argued with the Arcade wannabe community. :D
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Originally posted by Jackal1
It`s not being argued with "The furball community". It`s being argued with the Arcade wannabe community. :D
Now I get it. I can't find these elusive furballs because I don't have a ready supply of quarters. :lol
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:D That`s why no DA. There`s no money changer in the lobby. :D
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Look at Jack and Beet two morons in a pod.
I guess thats what you resort to when you have no argument.
You make it so easy thanks,
Boys.
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Originally posted by mars01
On Pizza Crap there are no furballs to be had. If it wasnt for the CVs on Big Isle we'd have the same problem there too. .
:rofl Uranus, you couldn`t find your butt with a search warrant and a flashlight on a snow covered tennis court then. :D
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Lazs, you need to restrain this mars guy.
I sorta started to understand the "furball community" (lol, sorry).
I thought it was dumb to only want one part of the game and whine about all the others who play the other parts. Now I do have some understanding eventhough I don't agree.
mars is our alibi to just smile at the wonderful "furball community".
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beetle and jakal allies... gotta wonder who is getting the worst of the deal.... one can talk forever and say nothing and the other can't hardly talk at all without foaming at the mouth.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
jakal.. beetle quoted people talking about festers map.. I am saying that it is at least 20 /1 more complaints for the pizza and big isles maps. I think deja is being silly saying that people are complaining about pizza and big isles because.... well because what? it is the cool thing to do? No... they are frustrated and bored with the lack of action on those maps. I have plenty of time on those maps and they are horrible most of the time.
The cool thing to do? Nah... it's an assinine thing to do. So is singing the praises of Fester's map when you haven't played it. Neither really stops you though.
I did like the "I played Pizza and it was fun... but that doesn't matter... it still sucks" story from this tour lazs. I think that pretty much sums things up nicely. You've been arguing about it so long, continuing on track has taken more of a priority than actually being right. It's called rhetoric. It's called lieing.
MiniD
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lieing? guess you would know all about lieing deja mini di... "So is singing the praises of Fester's map when you haven't played it. "
that is an out an out lie...
I guess you are a liar? perhaps we shouldn't listen to anything you say since you not only call people liars who aren't but.... are yourself a liar? liar liar liar.... neener neeener neeer...
also... I have allways said that fun can be had on the pizza map but that your chances are slim and that most of the time there are no good fights to be had... for you to insinuate that I said that the map sucks even tho I have fun on it is .... well.... a lie... You have allways reached to prove your points but seems that now, in your frustration... you resort to.... lieing... Plus.....
your just mad cause nobody likes the pizza abortion and...... you got your butt kicked in the Oclub by..... a GIRL.
lazs
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You've played it twice lazs. 2 times. You're a self proclaimed expert on it now. And on all maps.
Sorry lazs, but you are continuing to mislead and lie your way through all of these threads. You've finally resorted to nothing but rhetoric to do it. You'd stop... but you're having too much fun.
The sad thing is, the maps aren't really problem here.
MiniD
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make up your mind mini... is it "haven't played the map" or played it twice? which is it? which one are you LYING about?
thing is... you are lying in both cases... I really haven't played the map that much.. but... it was three seperate occassions not "haven't" and not twice. admittedly, for something around 4 hours. I have said as much in other posts.. I simply said that there was allways something going on those times. the fact that you bothered to LIE about me to make me out a liar is sorta twisted.
As for the maps... they really are the problem if you like to furball... some maps offer more opportunity for that than others. if you can't figure that out then you are probly LYING to yourself as well as everyone else. I have spent plenty of hours on the pizza abortion to know that sometimes it is impossible to find a good fite in anything like a reasonable time frame and that festers map proves that such silliness does not have to be the case.
so next time you call me a liar..... either do it in person or... at least don't use a lie of your own to "prove" it.
lazs
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You seem to think there's a difference lazs. Hold onto that... it's all you have left.
Till then, keep lieing enough and people start believing them to be truths.
MiniD
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If I do decide to start lying deja/mini di... I hope I do a better job of it than you do. Naa... probly better to get caught. look how much it improved your attitude.
lazs
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Originally posted by beet1e
Mold - read this post (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97759) which was one of mine about initial observations of gameplay on the QWW map.
I took a look at this thread beet1e, but although I saw the comments on the vultchfests, I still cannot see why it is less fun to play a strategy game on Fester's map. If Festerma is truly less fun for strat then I agree that fair is fair and a rotation of maps is good. But I don't see why it isn't fun for strat.
I can say for sure that closer fields are more fun for a2a (furballing or e-fighting or even BnZing). When the a2a fight is "won" by one side or the other, then it turns into a vultchfest and of course there's not much fun in that either way. But in that case it is simple enough to go elsewhere and there'll be another fight.
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Deja...I don't think you're very nice.
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Mold, fair comment. And admittedly, I haven't put that much time into QWW. The last time it came around, it got reset after about three days and we didn't see it again in its assigned week. Yes, closer fields might be good for a2a if that's all you're looking for. But that's about all you'll get. Vulcherama. Wlfgng did some of his own research just over a year ago, and his findings matched my predictions for a fields-close-together map. His remarks were so concise and to the point that I've included them in my sig. Read that (pink text) and then read Skuzzy's comments (purple text) immediately afterwards, and you'll realise that there's an agenda at work. And that's why I personally do not wish to see the remaining maps "Festerised".
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Originally posted by:jogi
Lazs, you need to restrain this mars guy.
I sorta started to understand the "furball community" (lol, sorry).
I thought it was dumb to only want one part of the game and whine about all the others who play the other parts. Now I do have some understanding eventhough I don't agree.
mars is our alibi to just smile at the wonderful "furball community".
Why, all I am saying is bring maps back that allow furballs. I am not asking to limit or remove strat, as the furballs have been eliminated on maps like PIZZA CRAP.
As for the attacks - Your boy Jackal opens his mouth and says nothing, just antagonizes. I respond in kind and you dont like it. You cant have it both ways jogi. Either put a leash on your boy Jack, which I think would be a shame since once in a while he is actually funny. You jump in, in the middle, obviously have no idea whats going on or whats been said, then you spew like you have been here the whole time. Go back and read all the threads maybe you will see the error of your ways. MAYBE.
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Mold, fair comment. And admittedly, I haven't put that much time into QWW. The last time it came around, it got reset after about three days and we didn't see it again in its assigned week. Yes, closer fields might be good for a2a if that's all you're looking for. But that's about all you'll get. Vulcherama.
That’s amazing, so you barely play the map and then you formulate opinions based on what, your agenda. How can you sit there and bash the map, say it sucks for strat when you really haven’t even played the thing. Talk about being biased
Wlfgng did some of his own research just over a year ago, and his findings matched my predictions for a fields-close-together map. His remarks were so concise and to the point that I've included them in my sig. Read that (pink text) and then read Skuzzy's comments (purple text) immediately afterwards, and you'll realize that there's an agenda at work. And that's why I personally do not wish to see the remaining maps "Festerised".
What research, based on what - his offline play. Are you kidding me. Yeah take some research, who cares what it is or how it was done and since it backs your opinion rely on it like gold. Cmon beet, I thought you were better than that. Forget the research and try the real thing next time Festers map is up. If you have an honest open mind, and you forget about your agenda, maybe you too will see the error of your ways.
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Originally posted by mars01
Why, all I am saying is bring maps back that allow furballs. I am not asking to limit or remove strat, as the furballs have been eliminated on maps like PIZZA CRAP.
As for the attacks - Your boy Jackal opens his mouth and says nothing, just antagonizes. I respond in kind and you dont like it. You cant have it both ways jogi. Either put a leash on your boy Jack, which I think would be a shame since once in a while he is actually funny. You jump in, in the middle, obviously have no idea whats going on or whats been said, then you spew like you have been here the whole time. Go back and read all the threads maybe you will see the error of your ways. MAYBE.
Nerves actin up again on ya , are they? :D
Flustered I believe is the word you used. :rofl
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No not at all. Like I said earlier you guys are easy to handle. I dont get flustered on these BBs. You guys really dont put up that much of a fight to get flustered about. Most of what you are throwing is just BS to try to get someone all worked up. I'm looking for a dialog where people actually have a point. Since you guys rarely have one, I just gloss over you.:D
I responded to jogi, thinking he isnt like you and may have a point, so far not true. You guys are squaddies.
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Originally posted by mars01
You guys are squaddies.
Brilliant! Was it the avatars that gave it away for ya? :D What was your first hint?:D
Uranus, your self control is astounding. Since, in your words, you know how to handle the likes of us , whatever happened to that little, whimsical, fairy tale of an idea of yours that you posted that you wasn`t going to respond to my posts anymore? Hmmmmmmmm? :D
Get a grip Ironman. You can do it. :rofl
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Originally posted by mars01
That’s amazing, so you barely play the map and then you formulate opinions based on what, your agenda. How can you sit there and bash the map, say it sucks for strat when you really haven’t even played the thing. Talk about being biased
I haven't played it much, but according to MiniD, I've probably played it more than Lazs has. And he is talking about it as if he's just found the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. But I don't see you accuse him of being biased. No, no, that would not suit your agenda.
I haven't bashed the QWW map, but I've made observations about the gameplay on it. Indeed, if there were to be some sort of TOD-style mission control then it might even be good for strat. Instead, we have continuous LA7 conveyor belting, suiciding and re-uppage. Big freaking surprise there.
But that's fine. Do what you want with the QWW map. Make the fields overlap for all I care, and that's fine. You've also got fields close together on children's maps - Festerise those too, I really don't care - as long as we can have maps like Pizza and Big Isles where those of us who prefer the fields to be more widely spaced can find the gameplay we want.
I don't think that's asking too much.
But then again some people want everything their own way all the time.
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Originally posted by beet1e
where those of us who prefer the fields to be more widely spaced can find the gameplay we want.
I don't think that's asking too much.
[/i][/COLOR]
But you think it's asking way too much if anyone suggests that the fuel resupply imbalance be fixed so that early war planes can have some useful flying time on a big map.
:rofl
BTW, your type of gameplay is available on every map. All the same "strat" is there and there's even more opportunity for cherrypicking no-risk flying on Fester for those with incredible amounts of patience.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Yes, closer fields might be good for a2a if that's all you're looking for. But that's about all you'll get. Vulcherama.
Well, to be reasonable, vultch is to a2a as pork-auger is to strat. ;) Not all a2a is vultch, and vultch is not all you get with close fields. You are probably right that most fights arising on maps with close fields end up as vultches, but there is a lot of fun to be had before that point.
Originally posted by beet1e
Wlfgng did some of his own research just over a year ago, and his findings matched my predictions for a fields-close-together map. His remarks were so concise and to the point that I've included them in my sig.
Now that I think about it, I do see the point you made earlier in the thread. I think I see what you are saying about close fields--that taking a field does not represent a territorial gain in a strategic sense because one field is as good as another location-wise. Thus taking fields becomes an entirely tactical question, and taking a field does not alter the strategic balance in any way. OK, point taken and I think I understand now. :)
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Originally posted by:mold
Thus taking fields becomes an entirely tactical question, and taking a field does not alter the strategic balance in any way. OK, point taken and I think I understand now.
You hit the nail on the head mold, Bulzeye. Yes I agree, fester lessens the impact one field has on an area. So to really make an impact as a strat guy you have to take more than one field or take a more startegic field. They cnt spoil the sector as easily.
Ok, beetle I agree you have your maps we have ours. You can strat on every map in the rotation. We can't furball on PIZZA CRAP. Big Isle is bareable and has some good furballs as long as the islands in the middle are not completely owned by one country. I think if they mad PIZZA CRAP so that some of the fields were closer togerther, to promote the existance of furballs, this map would be better recieved. for a good dialog over the past several days. At least you have something to say :aok
Originally posted by: Rude
BTW, your type of gameplay is available on every map. All the same "strat" is there and there's even more opportunity for cherrypicking no-risk flying on Fester for those with incredible amounts of patience.
exactly!
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whatever happened to that little, whimsical, fairy tale of an idea of yours that you posted that you wasn`t going to respond to my posts anymore? Hmmmmmmmm?
LOL your a gem jack. I hope I run into you at a CON if your mom will let you go.:rofl
Some of your posts are so tempting, I admit I cant hold back slamming you. Like I said it's too easy. :aok
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Originally posted by mars01
LOL your a gem jack. I hope I run into you at a CON if your mom will let you go.:rofl
Some of your posts are so tempting, I admit I cant hold back slamming you. Like I said it's too easy. :aok
Self control seems to be a bit lacking, but I understand your frustaion, it`s all too clear.
Run into me at the CON? :D Is run here the key word?:D
Mom`s 78, doesn`t really have a lot to say in the dos or don`ts department. She does like to travel with me though. Hell, I`ll hit her up about the CON. I gotta warn you though to not gamble with her. She`s a killer at the crap table. :D
As far as the slamming.......... I believe if you will take better notice you will see what your "slamming" is your head into the old proverbial brick wall. Couldn`t hurt nothing though, so continue please.
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Blah blah blah ....
This thread and this topic is so overdone.
As Toad alluded to before ... and I believe it to be true ... nothing is going to happen/change until the release of AH II.
Maybe some changes will occur in AH II : Classic, maybe not. Maybe things will change when/after AH II : TOD goes live, then again maybe not. Changes are more likely after the TOD Release IMHO. Maybe we can pick up this discussion at that point in time.
For some strange reason, we think that carrying on with this debate, we are going to sway HT and/or HTC one way or another. I believe that they (HT or HTC) have already gotten/understood the strong points of both sides of the debate and due to the never-ending angst of this discussion, are more than likely sick of hearing it and have definately turned a deaf ear to it.
I am not going to participate in these discussions anymore until AH II is the only game to play and even then, I doubt that I will. I have made my point/argument as have the other contigent ... the ball is now in HT/HTCs hands.
Beta Release 7 is out ... rather than keep throwing fuel onto this fire and wasting time, we all should be testing the crap out of AH II so that when it goes primetime, we will have something pretty slick at our disposal.
Every night I check the AH II arena and only see 7-10 players at the max ... whats up with that. Its a viable/playable areana and we should be starting to use it.
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Seems to me beet, that what you want is a low threat environment with plenty of time between engagements for you to get resituated.
Feel free to correct any spelling errors you find. Hope the grammar did not make you "wince".
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Run into me at the CON? Is run here the key word?
Yeah after you lol:D
She`s a killer at the crap table.
Is she hot?:D
I believe if you will take better notice you will see what your "slamming" is your head into the old proverbial brick wall.
Maybe not slamming, but talking to a wall, thats for sure hehehe:D
Yeah slap I agree. But work is slow and I'm bored so I am having some fun with Jack. I could care less about HTC changing their mind. They arent going to do anything till AHII is done,( Thats at least a year or more away. We may see the new engine and such done in the next six months, but they haven't even started working on the game side and wont be until the engine is solid.) let alone pay any attention this baloney.
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Originally posted by mars01
Yeah after you lol:D
I`m always here till closing time. We never close. :D
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Originally posted by mars01
You hit the nail on the head mold, Bulzeye. Yes I agree, fester lessens the impact one field has on an area. So to really make an impact as a strat guy you have to take more than one field or take a more startegic field. They cnt spoil the sector as easily.
Hehe, well to be fair mars, I wasn't looking at it quite from that angle. I was thinking more on a field-per-field basis. But actually, what you are saying makes more sense. Question for you beet1e and other strat folk: is this a fair analysis of the strategic implications of closer fields, or is there more to it than that?
Slapshot--
Hey, I'm just talkin here. :D
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Mars01, Mold...
...and Mr. Toad :D;)
I'm glad we understand eachother. There is just one last thing. And that is that the strat players are repeatedly told that they can strat on any map. Technically, this is true: Strat targets can be destroyed etc... but the suggestion that we can strat on QWW is akin to the strat players telling the furballers to go to the DA. Technically, you can do all your furballing in there. But you don't want to. You want community, you want terrains - a bit surprising, as some have been disdainful of "sightseeing" but what the hey... Just as furballers don't want to have to go to the DA, please understand that for the strat guys, the QWW map is far from ideal. Those walls of LA7s really pork things up, and what's the point of capturing a base when the enemy has an identical one ½ mile away?
Mr. Toad! I don't whine too much about the fuel porkers. They're a nuisance for sure. But they don't completely ruin the game. And please remember - my planes need fuel too, so I am not exempt from fuel porkage as you have tried to suggest in earlier threads.
About that LA7 conveyor belt: It's bad on QWW, but it can be bad on any map. Here's a screenshot from last night. I was in a F6F flying from a CV. There were some enemy zekes and Niks, but mostly it was Spits and LA7s. It's getting really, really old... so I logged and went to the CT - had a good time there. :aok
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/la72.jpg)
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Beet, that Lala driver 2.1 to your lower left has a polaroid out takin pics of your butt.:D
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Beet ...
I look at that picture and the guy that scares me the most is the A6M. He is the first that I would target to get him out of the equation.
I guess the main difference is fighting styles. No knock here ... you are, I believe, a straight line fighter, where I am an angles fighter.
If you are a straight line fighter, then you must fear the La-7 cause he WILL run your butt down .. simple as that. OTOH, you might not fear the A6M cause he will never catch you, if you choose to disengage.
I never fear the La-7 because they can rarely get the angle on me if I see him ... its that bloody A6M that farts in the direction of my angles.
I just checked my stats and so far I have killed the La-7 21 times and died to it 7 times (3:1). Yes there are alot of La-7s in the air, but they are not the scariest plane out there. I flew the La-7 almost exclusivly for 2 tours so I know what it can and can't do.
I don't care what plane you bring to the fight ... just fight ... win or lose ... I don't care.
Its the twistin', the turnin', going vertical, stall, barrel-roll, yo-yo, whatever it takes to spoil the angle and gain the angle ... and the longer it takes, the better it is ... at least for me.
I gotta ask ... wazzup with the PINK ?!?!?! ;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
...strat players are repeatedly told that they can strat on any map. Technically, this is true: Strat targets can be destroyed etc...
...my planes need fuel too, so I am not exempt from fuel porkage as you have tried to suggest in earlier threads.
What I see when I read that is: "all the strat is there, but I don't like the way it plays out on this map. So, I'll find a denigrating term for a map I don't like to play so I can imply that there's something wrong with people who like this map."
Bottom line though is you STILL CAN DO ALL THE STRAT ON FESTER. Even you admit this.
As for fuel, yes, your plane needs fuel. But it doesn't need as much as an early war aircraft. Two reasons, these planes hold less fuel and go much slower. So, with a time based fuel multiplier, 25% pretty much makes it impossible to sortie from a front line base to the next enemy base one sector away, fight a bit and return. There just isn't enough fuel to do that.
Take off another sector back? Swell, now you've DOUBLED the time it takes to get to the enemy field at 220-230 mph. Compare that cruise to your G10. For people with limited time to play and who happen to be really fond of the early war slower planes, this makes a big difference.
Yet you still shrug this off as unimportant because it doesn't affect the way you play.
Your concern is touching.
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Looks pretty much even up battle there Beet. Have some altitude in that *****kitty also.
Looks like fun !!
I'm a sucker, I'd go for the close-in La7 cuz I love killing them more than anything and hopefully have the juice to outdistance the zeke after the pretty explosion.
Killing La la's is ALWAYS fun. I think I'm fixated on that hobby.
If they were'nt there to kill, it just wouldn't be as fun.
The glass half full or half empty kinda thing I guess.
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Originally posted by beet1e
as long as we can have maps like Pizza and Big Isles where those of us who prefer the fields to be more widely spaced can find the gameplay we want.
I don't think that's asking too much.
But then again some people want everything their own way all the time.
i dont want all maps to be like furball errr fester map because i think bases too close can cause problems. BUT, Pizza and Big Isles take the distances too far.
Pizza & Bigisle = Too far
Fester = Too close
Trinity = Top marks ;)
Bases should be 25miles apart, not 50 like on bigisle or pizza, and not 10miles like Fester... Trinity and all the small maps have this balance of distance done right imo.
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Yeah great points overlag.
I would like to see a combination of all the above. With fewer 50 mile apart bases and more close bases. But I do favor the 10 mile bases 8)
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or maybe the bases should be 25miles apart close to the "core" (HQ) and 10miles apart at the front lines....
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Yeah read my mind. At the front, the bases are very close, as you push farther past the front line the bases get farther apart. Then as you get closer to HQ and other types of resources like that the bases are more compact for defense.
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Mr. Toad,
Many of the maps have nicknames - Pizza, Uterus to name but two. What's in a name? Strat on QWW is as viable as furballing in the DA - and neither choice has much of a take-up. And I've already explained why it doesn't work out, just as you have pointed out why furballing for you would not be good in the DA. The two arguments cancel eachother out. Read Mold's post again. He understands what I'm saying. "As for fuel, yes, your plane needs fuel. But it doesn't need as much as an early war aircraft. Two reasons, these planes hold less fuel and go much slower. So, with a time based fuel multiplier, 25% pretty much makes it impossible to sortie from a front line base to the next enemy base one sector away, fight a bit and return. There just isn't enough fuel to do that."
You really have a bee in your bonnet about fuel. :lol One of the reasons I like pizza is because with the fields more widely spread, the fuel porkers get bored doing those SFP runs. But you wanted closer fields and you have to take the rough with the smooth. Suicide Fuel Porker is in his element when he only has to fly 3 minutes to ruin your fun.
Slapshot: The zeke is already smoking in the picture, I believe. You're right. The zeke (smoking or not) was the least of my worries. If it was just him and me, I would have flown past and pulled up into a climbing turn just as he tries to force the HO - that's what everyone seems to do in here. :rolleyes: That would have cost him a lot of E. I would drop one stage of flap and keep turning above the zeke, watching him trying to get to me. Eventually he would stall, and that's when I would rudder over and attempt to get him. I'm working on that in the 109G2 right now. I've done it against a N1K - see the "This is a furball" thread if you'd like to see the film of me doing that.
As for pink icons, I chose that colour as one which seems to work on all maps. Red does not work well on the pizza map. I then tried yellow, but that can get lost in the sky. That pink works well under most conditions, and is well suited to my girly nature. :D Now, where did I put my knitting...
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Beet, U still got that quiche recipe I was asking about? :D
I use white icons for NME. Seems to work well on all maps and is a great help when darkness falls.
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Lets just forget the da and the other arenas... they are not involved in discussions about the MA... we need the one arena (the MA) that everyone goes to, to be for everyone.
beetle claims the close fields destroy the strat game.. he says that "what is the point if there is another close field?"
whaaaa? this is the first real admission that strat to him is simply a matter orf making it so that there is no way for people to fight. so what it there is another field? There are no more or less fields to take... the number is the same.. that is the way this is done... when one country, the one with the most numbers, steamrollers another and takes all it's fields.... that country "wins"... the strat is the same except that There is allways some place to play that isn't down to no resources and being gangbanged. If there is no strat then how is festers map reset?
The pizza abortion is simply a map where one country is hit by two superior countries for a week... the outcome is inevitable but the low numbered country gets to fight from a disadvantage for the entire week. if this is the strat that is lacking on festers map then I say good.
The complaining on channel 1 is even worse than in here during pizza and big isles. They need to be fixed.
lazs
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Jackal - finally found the recipe. It was underneath the tapestry I'm working on. I've put it in my sewing case for safekeeping. :)
Originally posted by lazs2
Lets just forget the da and the other arenas... they are not involved in discussions about the MA... we need the one arena (the MA) that everyone goes to, to be for everyone.
beetle claims the close fields destroy the strat game.. he says that "what is the point if there is another close field?"
whaaaa? this is the first real admission that strat to him is simply a matter orf making it so that there is no way for people to fight. so what it there is another field?
Lazs. :D:D
The strat needs some work - I'll grant you that. And I have in the past suggested that bardar and Missun Editor be disabled. But it seems like things went the opposite direction. Now, in addition to bardar, we have "Base under attack", we have the siren, and we have the Christmas tree flashing map. Organised stealth missions are doomed to failure. So then the only way to capture a field becomes the fuel pork/numerical supremacy smashdown/steamroller vulchfest. It wasn't like that in Brand-W - in the early days at least. One guy could creep in under radar, then zoom up and position himself to drop a 1000# bomb on the radar, and hope the 40mm didn't get him first. He'd become visible during zoom up and positioning for drop, and that's when the feathers could start flying. I used to like the enemy to be distracted in one place while we stole a base somewhere else.
But I won't try to sell this idea to you; I know it doesn't interest you. But please don't press for Festerisation of the remaining maps. Furballing does not interest me, and apparently is unavailable during Euro PT.
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There's a lot in a name, Beet.
Yours is deliberatly denigrating, just like you "children's maps" snide remark. You seek to imply superiority.
As for Festerization, we don't need all maps like FesterMA but we certainly need more maps like FesterMA to balance out the rotation. There's too many big spread-map bases in realation to big close map bases.
After all, you've come around to the big picture lately, right?
I'm sure you want everyone to
find the gameplay we want.
I don't think that's asking too much.
Neither do I. We need at least one more FesterMA type big map to share the rotation. Or just put FesterMA in twice as often. ;)
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perfect solution Toad... we could of course allways fix one of the really bad maps like pizza or big isles... fester could probly fix em in an afternoon... half the time spent on fun maps and half the time in the no action maps would be fair.
lazs
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Originally posted by beet1e
Jackal - finally found the recipe. It was underneath the tapestry I'm working on. I've put it in my sewing case for safekeeping. :)
.
Hey that`s great! I was afraid it had been lost. I got some great fondue ideas out of Good Housekeeping magazine that I will pass along to you when there is time. The week that FesterMA is up should be a good time. Won`t be much going on then. :D
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thats my point jakal... you and beetle can hide from each other and everyone else just as easy on festers map as on any other.... what was it beetle said? just take off one field back if you don't like what is going on at the front line fields..
u guys could take off 4 fields back and with any luck... could hide all night... maybe find someone else of your ilk snoozing or talking to their mom and bounce em.
lazs
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Naw Liz.... er Humpy, If anyones hiding , that would be you. You hide from the entire game, but profess to be the Karnak of AH.
So............ when you start playing the game and especialy on the Lala/N1kdaddie map that you have no time on but think it`s great, then share all your vast knowledge with us. Until then just keep hump`n them ankles and lookin for them hydrants. :D
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it must bother u jakal that just about anyone in the game can lay off for a month or so and come back and still beat your best efforts while they are trying to recall what buttons do what. maybe in another couple thousand or so hours you might have a better than 50/50 chance of not being humiliated every time you see another fighter but.... I doubt it.. you have the wrong attitude to improve.
course i could be wrong and you could be afflicted with some horrific physical deffect... that would explain your "performance" in the ma and... and , if it made you bitter enough, your performance here.
It is my theory that, except for the lack of any real intelligence.... you would have made a really good supervillan.
lazs
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Originally posted by: jackal
If anyones hiding , that would be you. You hide from the entire game, but profess to be the Karnak of AH.
So............ when you start playing the game and especialy on the Lala/N1kdaddie map that you have no time on but think it`s great, then share all your vast knowledge with us.
Hmm every time I see Laz, he's up to his neck in cons, always out numbered and droping them like flies. You on the other hand, it's a good thing they keep score otherwise I wouldn't think you even opened an account. In almost 2 years I've never seen you on and I fly at all hours of the day.:D I'll keep looking, I cant wait to find you in there. We'll find out where the smack stops and the kills talk :aok :D
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Well I see the Ladies Lap Sittin Org is up to full steam, spouting and pouting, not having a clue.
Whooooaaaaa even Uranus came back after he scared himself. :D
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Originally posted by mars01
Hmm every time I see Laz, he's up to his neck in cons,
Shouldn`t be hard for ya to see him Uranus when your sitting on his lap.:D
Your both up to your neck in something allright. We wear high top rubber boots when it starts getting that deep around here. Helps keep that terrible smell off, course it probably doesn`t bother you since you spew it all the time anyway. :D
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Shouldn`t be hard for ya to see him Uranus when your sitting on his lap.:D
Your both up to your neck in something allright. We wear high top rubber boots when it starts getting that deep around here. Helps keep that terrible smell off, course it probably doesn`t bother you since you spew it all the time anyway. :D
Instead of spewing insults , why not come down to the deck and kick some butt.
I'm sure that would end all future insults aimed at you.
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Originally posted by sax
Instead of spewing insults , why not come down to the deck and kick some butt.
I'm sure that would end all future insults aimed at you.
Insults? Where did that come from?
Kick some butt... you mean kill swapping? No thanks, I like playing the game called Aces High Sax. Next?
The sister squad speaks. ;)
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Jackal your a wuss to the point of being embarrassing.
Well..
Not to you.
To everyone else BUT you.
You Go !!
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Merry Christmas and Happy New year Poopster.
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FOUL !!
FOUL !!!!
HE'S PLAYIN THE CHRISTMAS CARD !!!
15 yards for unnecessary "tear up" ya bastage !
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Naah, Jackal - you have to speak Nopoop's language, and say it like this:
Merry Christmas!
And a Happy New Year!
And many more.
To you and yours.
Be safe.
See you again soon.
Watch your 6!
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in your case jakal... any fight is swapping kills. in fact.. if they see you.... your fights are simply...... dying.
lazs