Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 214thCavalier on December 09, 2003, 05:05:14 PM
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Has arrived.
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What?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-9/48257/20029211530-0-Swoop.gif)
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Track infra red basically.
AH2 now natively supports it which means much smoother operation and it always returns to the dead ahead view position.
If you dont know what TrackIR is you really should, as once setup and working correctly as you move your head the view does same.
So move your head left, and view smoothly pans left or up/ down etc.
Lol at least it did work until i altered some setings will need to reinstall AH2 now i think :)
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Cav I did notice everytime you land and have to reup it turns your view setting off and back to the Snap Look mode. Right now I have it working in the Pan mode and it's pretty nice. Not sure if thats why it stopped working on you. Just checked and see if it took you outta pan mode. I still have some issues with it's smoothness in the game though.
It'd also be nice to figure out how to speed up the recentering of it all. I've notice looking away from center it's fine other than a bit of stuttering. Think that stuttering may be do to settings or maybe even the old Track IR I'm using. But when your coming back to center it's rather slow...Maybe a 1/4 speed slower than the initial look away. When it does get fairly close to center it catches and snaps to center.
Oh I found if you wear glasses too it catches a reflection off them. I'll have to test it out again once I put my contacts back in. But I did take off my glasses and the dot on a head band I was using and it got a signal loss which is good. But I grabbed my glasses and put them the field of view for the Track IR and it started tracking again.
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Yes, but you still look at one monitor.
What we need is the support of at least 5 monitors. Only like this we can have a real near global view.
Now make the monitors projectors and you start to see what i mean :))
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Cav,
How did you get it to work in enhanced mode?
RGJ
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Just have mouse look enabled in AH2 and select enhanced mode in TIR b4 starting AH.
I do have a key programmed on my stick that clicks and holds on the right mouse button.
So if it does not work initially try holding right mouse biutton down and see what happens.
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Hmmm, I tried a little today, couldn't make it work.
Maybe I just have to fiddle a bit more...
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If you go into the setup then controls section and open up Select Joystick you can make your adjustments there. You need to select the Virtual joystick then click on the Pitch View and select the correct axis and do the same for Yaw View. From there so long as the TIR2Joy.exe is running along with the Natural point software it will work by just selecting the Pan view mode. Now if I rememeber right I had to invert my axis for one of them, I wanna say it was the pitch axis. Now everytime I launch I just have to select pan view and I can look around fine. Slight jittering but that may be my NP settings and or the old TIR. I'll make a better setup procedure when I get home and will post it.
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I see.
I misunderstood, I though you meant TIR support natively in AH2 - not via tir2joy. HTC needs to make an .dll thingy before we get true support. The accuracy and sensitivity will be optimal with native support.
hmmmm...
Cavalier, did u mean native support (as you wrote) or enhanced mode via tir2joy?
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I believe it does have native support for mouse emulation mode in Natural Point but not Enhanced Mode support. I wanna say I did initially run it with mouse look enabled and mouse emulation mode. Only problem is my view was way too quick...I didn't mess with settings to slow it down afterwards though.
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I was defintely running it in enhanced mode because the dead zones i had set in TIR were working.
In normal mouse mode the dead zones do not work.
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yea, but was it with or without yir2joy?
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It was without, as i had been using it before that thread appeared.
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jodgi, we have native support for TIR in AH2.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
jodgi, we have native support for TIR in AH2.
so this is the offical word? I can go buy this unit now/
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Me too.
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Outstanding!!!!!
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
jodgi, we have native support for TIR in AH2.
That is great new Skuzzy ... I would like to believe that HT went forward on this after the conversation that a few of us had with him at the con ... it just makes the con that more valuable.
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Currently it only works in mouse view/look, but it is there.
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As Skuzzy stated Mouse emulation for Natural point works in AH2 when using the mouse look option .
But with the great info from Jodgi you can use Enhanced mode with a few utilities and it works fine too. I just need to upgrade to the TIR2 now. I haven't checked to see how much more usage I'm having with these 2 programs running in the background though.
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How far away are we from a 3d Headset that has 1024 by 768 resolution, and works with this TIR2 stuff? Any guesses, beyond "two weeks".
Whats available now for 3d headsets, anybody have any links etc??
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I am so happy!
We will soon be hearing the whines about 'cheat ir' like has happened in IL2. TIR gives you such an increased SI...there is NO substitute......shy of a 25 monitor setup:D
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I know nothing about TIR. Could somebody please explain how it works? I have trouble understanding the concept. Specifically, folks say that you turn your head and it changes your view, but how do you reconcile that with having to keep looking forward at your monitor? Do you have to move your eyes in the opposite direction as you head? And how do you check 6?
Also, a link to some site about it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Originally posted by Balsy
How far away are we from a 3d Headset that has 1024 by 768 resolution, and works with this TIR2 stuff? Any guesses, beyond "two weeks".
Whats available now for 3d headsets, anybody have any links etc??
Are you talking about "3D" shutter glasses, or NON-3D LCD glasses....or the real deal 3D LCD 2 screens with diferent pictures on each screen?
3D glasses are $99 for a good pair and work fine with TIR from what Ive seen.
*NON* 3D LCD glasses, are NON CHEAP for good ones ($499-$20,000), with $499 being 640x480 and 1024 being in the $1000+ area.
3D LCD glasses with the actual images on the glasses......they make them...but its not a viable option.
Great news though.....There are some new technologies that are bringing 3D onto a standard LCD monitor. Sharp has developed a new way of making a 3d image appear without glasses on a LCD flatscreen. Its being incorperated into notbooks and high end LCD next year.
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Originally posted by Bullethead
I know nothing about TIR. Could somebody please explain how it works? I have trouble understanding the concept. Specifically, folks say that you turn your head and it changes your view, but how do you reconcile that with having to keep looking forward at your monitor? Do you have to move your eyes in the opposite direction as you head? And how do you check 6?
Also, a link to some site about it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Here ya go:
http://games.naturalpoint.com/
Click on the "video" link for a demonstration.
(edit: btw, the geek in the video moves his head much more than is really necessary for the unit to work) :eek:
You have the basic concept. But basicly, not much head movement is needed. No more than, say, pointing your nose at the edge of your viewable screen -- if that much -- which will give you your check6 view. So yeah, your eyes move in the opposite direction as your head, because they remain focused straight ahead on your screen.
And you use the software to scale the sensitivity/response much like you would a joystick.
It does take a little practice to get used to .. I won't lie. But face it, coordinating views with a thumb hat was probably alien to you when you started flight sims ... it was for me ... now I bet it's second-nature.
A couple of differences -- downsides or plusses depending on your viewpoint: Check six isn't instantaneous. (In other words I "look" slightly left or right to see behind me, then forward again -- just like a real pilot must.) And in it's current configuration, you can't use the saved head positions to look around cockpit obstacles like the headrest.
You could, however, map the arrow and up/down keys to your stick to serve the same purpose, which is what I've been doing ... but I find the response of those keys a little slow.
TrackIR doesn't seem to work as well in AH as in, say, IL-2 Forgotten Battles, which has true native support for it ... but I think it could.
Still, I find the SA advantage of easily tracking bandits with natural head/eye coordination to be well worth any other trade-off.
Splash1
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Thanks, Dennis.
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To those of you using TIR with AH, are you restricted to the IL2-like fixed head position (i.e., your head is like a rotating camer on a fixed pivot)? If so, don't you find that very limiting compared to AH's ability to laterally shift your head position and to save separate head positions for each of the 27 views?
- JNOV
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Has anyone tried the mouse snap pan mode with the Track ir?
Hitech
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Yes HT
Following views work with TIR
Mouse pan view works
Mouse snap pan view works
Mouse snap views work
I am using Track IR1 software version 2.11
(TIR2 has been released a few weeks ago with software 3.03.)
For it to work you need to have mouse look and mouse snap views enabled in view preferences in AH.
If you try to alter to just mouse snap views enabled it will continue to work until you exit your vehicle.
When you spawn again the snap views will not work unless you select mouse look as well.
However it does really need to work in the enhanced mode for TIR, as when you return head to front view, sometimes your actual screen view can be left looking over wing or a front quarter view.
Personally with the joystick hat i use snap views.
But with the TIR i find both the snap and snap pan views with the TIR slightly disorientating, as in motion sickness feeling coming on.
However bear in mind thats just me and as i get motion sick at the very thought of amusement park rides its likely others will love it as is.
I do not have this problem with the normal pan view using TIR, although that view definitely needs the enhanced mode support.
Now i know i apparently had the enhanced mode working before as the TIR software deadzones were available in AH and they only work with enhanced mode.
However i cant get em working anymore.
May be a software issue as i originally had the TIR2 ver 3.03 software installed until i realised they brought many problems to the TIR1.
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Originally posted by hitech
Has anyone tried the mouse snap pan mode with the Track ir?
Hitech
Yes. And like Cavalier, I found it extremely disorienting. Some tweaking of the mouse sensitivity might ease that ... but it seems in no way like a 'normal' way of looking around the cockpit ... unless I was setting it up wrong.
The only way I've been able to use TrackIR effectively (eg in Enhanced Mode) with AHII is the same way I'm using it with AH ... and that's with that neat little application jorgi found called tir2joy. I use it in conjuction with DM Pan view, so scanning the skies has quite a natural feeling to it. And I've mapped my TrackIR's CENTER button to be the same as HOME in AH. This brings me right back to my centered dead-zone for shooting with the flick of a button (a hat on my throttle) and a fresh, centered start for scanning the skies again.
To get the neck-craning effect needed to look around the headrest for six views and around cockpit struts, I've mapped the arrow buttons and page up/down to my hotas. (Actually they were already there before TrackIR). They move a little slow for my likeing, tho. It would really be kewl if there was a combination between TrackIR's view system and the custom head positions of AH. Kind of like the way padlock works in AH, now, you know?
As for JNOV's question about the limitation ... yeah, it's a trade-off. Unless HiTech can marry the customizable views with free panning rotation (ala current padlock) you lose the functionality of saved positions. I haven't missed it this week, tho. And I always thought it was kind of gamey to be able to set up views where the back of your head is pressed against the gunsight or your noggin spins 360 like Linda Blair.
But that's just me.
:rofl
Splash1
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I made a suggestion on how to implement head positioning while using TIR in a smooth manner here. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103127)
I really don't care if I can't get my own saved views when using TIR. However, I do want to be able to check my 6. Generic head positioning will do fine, check the link to see one way to do it.
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Jodgi if using the mouse snap pan view you do get all the saved views.
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Thanks for the replies. Jodgi, I really like your idea. If the devs don't want to go to the trouble of figuring out the optimal lateral positioning, it would be simple to design it so that the head position smoothly transitions from pre-defined point to pre-defined point as the virtual head slews.
- JNOV
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Mine will be here Friday. :aok
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Just got mine. Gonna take some tweaking.
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I have an upcoming review of the TRackIR2 with Aces High mentioned. Since neither Warbirds nor WW2 Online supports mouseview (at least natively) in the cockpit AHII seemed to be the logical choice to represent the non enhanced mode future simulation.
I hope HTC gets with Naturalpoint and adds enhanced support. The ability to just access the clipboard without skewing my view all over the place will be worth it to me.
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I feel that it's on their list, it's just not one of the top things yet.
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Played around with it in AH2. Really want the enhanced mode supported.
I'd also like to see the view perspective supported by the irtracker. It'd be nice to have a button toggle between the mouselook and shift perspective. For example, your looking around in mouselook and when you press and hold a button your view fixes while your head then shifts your perspective through the ir tracker so you can see around the canopy bars or the seat back.
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And thx for the heads up Cav.
:aok
(from a former 214th buddy)