Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TweetyBird on December 09, 2003, 08:03:24 PM
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If the take off model stay as is , I guarantee I'll stick with AH I.
If I have to go buy some elaborate rudder system to control it on take off, I'll find something else. I really don't understand the thinking here. If I want that, I'll get MS flight simulator. There is no need to make the takeoff so difficult. I even question its accuracy - a plane flipping over at 35 knots??? Thats a tad exagerated.
I have no doubt it will satisfy the people who have grown bored with AH as is. But I doubt that level of difficulty will atract many new users. Just my opinion. Its focusing on a minor part of the game to the detriment of the whole.
But you know opinions - they're like elbows - most have one or two. Its just going in a different direction than what I'm looking for.
Edit: And BTW, I do get it off the ground manually. I just give it quick rudder movements till it stabilizes. I just think its a pain for such a minor part of the game.
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When you ride a bicycle, you don't respond to visual cues to balance the bike. You respond to your center of gravity. You make small almost instantaneous adjustments without even realizing it only because you feel a change in your center of gravity. In a visual simulator, there is no such cue.
So when all the purists thrust out there chests and say how hard it was to take off in WWII planes, I wonder if they consider how much easier other real world cues made it. Controling the rudder as slow speeds from visual cues is difficult. But thats all it is. Its not realistic nor how it was done.
I'm sure most have seen numerous documentaries on the advent of flight and the Wright brothers. Thats why I bring up bicycles and slow flight. The Wright brothers concept of flight differed from all the other contraptions because they considered the complex task of flight to be much like the complex task of riding a bike. But when one considers the natural capability of feeling balance, its a task that can be absorbed quickly. The contols just have to be adequate so they can shift as a person shifts his weight. Its no coincidence that the wing shape was initially controlled by the hips.
Most people know how to ride a bike.Try it in a realisticly modeled simulator. I guarantee, without being able to *feel* the effects of gravity, you'd be falling on your face. I gaurantee spit pilots weren't contoling the rudder by watching the horizon, but by the feel of their weight shifting.
Trying to model this type of nuance is a mistake IMO. You are adding difficulty, but thats all. Just as you don't balance a bike by looking at the sidewalk, you dont contol the rudder in slow flight by visual cues, but by feel.
An easier way to add difficulty would be to decrease the ammo lethality by 50%. It would be no less realist than controling the axis of a slow plane by visual cues.
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I haven't noticed anything difficult in takeoffs??
Do you take off too early and with too much power thus flipping the plane?
Isn't there an auto takeoff button anymore?
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
If the take off model stay as is , I guarantee I'll stick with AH I.
When AH2 comes online fully, AH1 will go away, so it won't be an option.... :p
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Beta6 has dealt with the bug, and the Spit9 or C47, P-51 is still twitchy, but not so fatally as Beta5. I think it is just right - people can still jam up full throttle and start the take off run, but the sudden increase in torque is really dangerous, and having to think about the torque factor can be even more tedious.
With Beta6, having heard the bugs were fixed, I thought it too easily and started a full power Spit9 run - which I ground looped again. After that experience, I went a bit slower and took more precaution during take offs - it wasn't as deadly as Beta5, but still having the need to concentrate was good.
I think Beta6 is just right.
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I could not get off runway on beta 5 in spits . but now I think it is a whole lot easier to take off than last patch, and now auto die is now back to auto take off. so I think it is better not worse than last patch
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Beta 6 takeoff is no problem...even in spit9. Simply a little learning curve. I suffered thru it in beta 5 but now even spitty is easy. In a week or two you wont even notice it. The FM is a bigger issue....def changes there that are very subtle. Kwan and I had a nice little tussle. He started pos E and alt...and I fought him to even then gained the high ground....only to find myself in same situation he'd been in...I just couldnt convert to any meaningful guns solution. He caught me at end in a vertical and hammered me to confetti on 1 ping (ouch). I think this will be a knife fighters dream but its gonna cause some serious relearning...least for me:)
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The take model of the spit is a 1000% better than in beta 5, because it was broke in beta 5 :)
And you're right, after a few tries its not hard to take off with a spit manually. My only point is its introducing balance in the take off mode. Since balance requires more feel than visual cues, it would be impossible to model without hooking up a hydraulic chair to the sim. So in the end, its not introducing any more realism, but video game difficulty. Its sort of learning how to jump on ropes in Mario Sunshine.
After thinking about it though, I can see how it would enhance game play *if* there was no auto takeoff mode. It would end vulching. Only a complete dweeb would try to get up from a capped field :)
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
I can see how it would enhance game play *if* there was no auto takeoff mode.
Auto-takeoff mode is something I have never used and am constantly surprised at how many 'experienced pilots' do use it. I like the challenge of taking off manually.... ;)
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In ah 1 I do it just cause I'm lazy,in ah2 I don't.
I like the way the 109 flip around on takeoff,if you accidently ride on one wheel(very realistic).
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TweetyBird...Don't worry too much...This is still a work in progress, but I can't help but wonder what the problem is. As a long time tail dragger pilot in Cubs, Citabrias and Decathelons, belive me when I say ballance has nothing to do with it....Ya just steer the darn thing. You'll get used to it, and people like me who want the realism will be cheering as HT tweeks the flight models to come ever closer to the real thing.
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Yea, I need to add to my signature - diismiss any post I make after 9 pm :)
The biggest problem is me thinking I'm further along than I am.
Every now and then a series of events add up and gives the illusion that you've gotten a lot better, but in reality it was just a favorable series of events. Its just a steady learning process with a bunch of mistakes to be made. I'm gonna fly more and whine less.
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Tweety,
I respect your opinion, but I don't agree. IMO, anything HTC can do to make the takeoffs more realistic works for me. Takeoffs in AH1 are way too easy, allowing us to firewall the throttle without any consequences. Realistic takeoff and landing procedures may be annoying to those who "just want to fight", but it is very important to those of us who enjoy the full cycle of takeoff, climb to alt, cruise, fight, rtb safely back at base.
To some people, myself included, the accuracy of the ground modeling of the planes is just as important as is the flight model when in the air.
Just my humble two cents....
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Originally posted by Flossy
Auto-takeoff mode is something I have never used and am constantly surprised at how many 'experienced pilots' do use it. I like the challenge of taking off manually.... ;)
Naaa , I disagree Flossy :)
The challenge start when you spot that little red Icon 3k over your head ... diving :)
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Well even in beta 5 the planes took-off normally with auto-take off