Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MajorDay on December 10, 2003, 04:34:19 PM
-
Howdy
!
I am doing some researching about F4Us aftermath of World War 2, Korean War, and Soccer War. I know some of F4Us are still in museum and also still flyable today, but I like to learn more about what happened to them.
Rafe35
-
They sold a lot af aluminum siding after World War 2 :) The smelter got most, some were stored a while first then used in Korea or smelted (I can remember seeing some photos of F4Us being unloaded from some Connex type container for Korea). Naval reserves flew them for a few years. The brits dumped theirs in the ocean because the Lend Lease terms would have cost them if they returend them (at least I think that was the deal). Private collectors got some, foreign airforces some....
Charon
-
There is at least one F4U locator website.
This months FlightJournal magazine is running an F4U special. In the back there is a list of surviving F4U's and their status.
FYI there is at least one other F2G being restored to flying condition. Also the F4U-5 flown by Major Soto in the 1968 Soccer war is still on display in Honduras featuring killl markers on the side from two F4U-1D's and a P-51D.
-
Their are "Several" near whear I live, in Museums, all of which are in fantastic condation, two of which I am fairly certain can still fly.
-
they stopped production and chopped up existing inventories because they were so unfair to the rest of the world, especially in the pacific rim where they had a very depressing effect.
:aok
-
Another thing, Is there any F4Us in Central America like abandon airfield with full of F4Us or P51s? I like to know that also. :D
-
Stuff like that (abandodned or recovered) planes are turning up all the time as their value increses so does the movation to go get em... one F4U in Seatle(at the Boing Museum) that was restored was recovered(in the 80's I think) from one of the lakes up their (forget which one) and is in Beautifull condation.
-
I bet there's alot F4Us wreckage on Pacific Jungle and Pacific Ocean........I have no idea how many F4Us out there and there are some MIA F4U pilots in WW2.
-
Its very bad killing the birds.
I had see a photo of what was doing at
p-38s after the war. sad.
ok, you need aluminum, but no one will be hurt if you keep 10-20 just for history
reasons.sad.
-
I also looking forward to find Tommy Blackburn F4U-1A corsair and I still got his BuNo, but it possible that BuNo can be change serval time in World War 2 or future war.
-
The main thing with these is that in Central America El Salvador and Honduras didn't buy more than a few dozen of the planes each. I have heard that there are several whole aircraft sitting just off the airfields at some of the areas down there but the jungle has "claimed" them. The one's in the Pacific area may never be found and could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars just to locate the plane before you ever think of bringing it back and restoring it. Plus you run the chance of never finding it.
-
Folks are diging them up (warbirds) all the time going to extrodany lengths to get them back and restored, their is a New Zeland company that specializes in recovering P40's from the SWPA and restoring them for example, I think in the case of the F4U's their are simply a lot of them left compared to some other types, howeaver many of the F4U's left are later models, I beleave the one at the Tilamook air museum is actualy an ex French Navy model...
-
Rafe .... I'm still pretty sure that this may be the only indentifyable remnant of any of the VF-17 planes left. Other's went down but I doubt there's much of anything left of them. The surviving planes more than likely all got scrapped.
(http://www.pacificwrecks.com/provinces/bougainville/buin/F4U.jpg)
F4U Corsair USN VF-17
Pilot Lt. Chuck Pillsbury
MIA December 21, 1943 near Buin
Discovered 1968 by Don Smith
Pilot Chuck Pillsbury
Born on 4 April 1917, in Minneapolis, MN. He was educated at St. Paul's School, Concord, N.H., and Yale University (B.A. Degree) Class of 1939. He became an Aviation Cadet on 2 December, 1940, and reported on 9 December to N.A.S. Pensacola for training. On 21 May, 1941, he was designated a Naval Aviator. On 31 May, 1941, he was appointed an Ensign, and on 2 September, 1942, he was appointed Lt(jg) and reported on 10 August, 1942, to N.A.S. New York for duty with the Aircraft Delivery Unit. He reported on 8 October, 1942, to Naval Proving Grounds, Dahlgren, Virginia, and on December 31, 1942, reported to Norfolk Virginia and VF-17. He was appointed Lieutenant on 1 March, 1943. In service, he was awarded an Air Medal and Bronze Star, among other decorations.
Mission History
The Jolly Rogers by Lt. Tom Blackburn pages 199-200 about the missions on December 21, 1943:
" ... Tragedy struck the squadron later in what we thought would be a triumphal day. Six Corsairs under Chuck Pilsbury routinely relieved the midmorning CAP over Empress Augusta Bay, and they flew yet another butt-grinding noon-hour CAP mission until relieved in turn by the early-afternoon flight. All six of Pillsbury's F4Us were directed to strafe targets of opportunity along the Monoitu-Kahili Trail, over which the Imperial Army had been resupplying their ground forces arrayed against the Torokina beachhead.
Lt. Wally Schubb's division wan unable to find the Monoitu Mission itself, but the four did expend most of their bullets on bridges and huts along the trail. Meanwhile, Chuck and his wingman, Ens. Bob Hogan, flew an independent course up the jungle-obscured trail and managed to flame five trucks. At about 1300, just before the pair reached Kahili, Hogan idly cut to starboard to pass around 400-food Kangu Hill. He saw Chuck swing left around the same prominence. Though Bob neither encountered nor saw any signs of antiaircraft fire, that was the last he saw of Chuck."
Discovery
Discovered in 1968 only 400M off the Buin-Kangu Hill road this Corsair was found where it had crashed, with the remains of the pilot were still in the cockpit.
Roger Porteous, formally of Bougainville reports:
"The Aircraft was found by Surveyor Don Smith (currently residing in Coff's Harbour NSW ) in 1968 whilst carrying out a restoration of title survey on the boundaries of the Patpatuai Catholic Mission. As Don was staying with my wife and I, I accompanied him to the crash site the next morning. The Aircraft was, as stated, in good condition, but only from the rear cockpit fire wall back. The wings were in good nick and guns still loaded. The engine was lying a long way forward of the wreck and cockpit area was completely burned out, non existent.
I reported the wreck to the RAAF shortly after, with a description and number off the tail. Several weeks later I did receive a request from the RAAF ( Sqd, Ldr. de Frank from memory) asking me to check for more numbers, as the one I gave them did not seem right. Sure enough there was another obscured number on the tail which I duly sent to them. Some time later, the RAAF fellows came to Buin and I took them to the site. They sifted through the wreckage for several days, but reported finding only 2 x vertabrae and 1 x metal Lt. shoulder. No other remains were found. The ones that were recovered came from the ground well beneath the surface amongst evidence of fierce fire. Several months after the find, there was an ABC Radio documentary of the find . I also believe that Lt.Pilsbury's sister received the remains in the US.
Source (http://www.pacificwrecks.com/people/mia/discoveries/pisbury.html)
-
Here is a nice site (http://www.bentwings.com/fg1d/fg1d.htm) about a Corsair restoration.
-
Originally posted by Reschke
The main thing with these is that in Central America El Salvador and Honduras didn't buy more than a few dozen of the planes each. I have heard that there are several whole aircraft sitting just off the airfields at some of the areas down there but the jungle has "claimed" them. The one's in the Pacific area may never be found and could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars just to locate the plane before you ever think of bringing it back and restoring it. Plus you run the chance of never finding it.
Yeah, I have planning to go Central America for vacation maybe next year or so on. I would like to check it out at the airfield, but I dont know if i can get in the airfield or not and it still dangerous to go Central America. Also, I was hoping to take a class for Aviation Archaeology at Mesa, AZ and hopefully i would able to learn about wreckage, etc. There are 5,000 MIA in Pacific War and still looking forward to find wreckage and sent them back to USA, Great Britian, and other country.
BTW, Thanks arlo for that wreckago of VF-17 plane and it shame that he died from antiaircraft(i believe that what happened) and also thanks for the link of F4Us restoration, AKCasca. !
-
Originally posted by MajorDay
Yeah, I have planning to go Central America for vacation maybe next year or so on. I would like to check it out at the airfield, but I dont know if i can get in the airfield or not and it still dangerous to go Central America. Also, I was hoping to take a class for Aviation Archaeology at Mesa, AZ and hopefully i would able to learn about wreckage, etc. There are 5,000 MIA in Pacific War and still looking forward to find wreckage and sent them back to USA, Great Britian, and other country.
BTW, Thanks arlo for that wreckago of VF-17 plane and it shame that he died from antiaircraft(i believe that what happened) and also thanks for the link of F4Us restoration, AKCasca. !
MajorDay,
FYI, be VERY VERY careful about doing this sort of thing. If, the locals find out you are interested in what THEY consider to be worthless garbage, and are willing to spend beaucoup $$$ to restore it, then you become a very nice target for a kidnapping and / or extortion scheme. There have been multiple killings and kidnappings involved with these types of adventures in the past 10 years. As a restoration shop manager, I can not begin to tell you the loads of false tips, innacurate data, and downright despicable schemes that have ben passed on to us. Most came to no fruition for the culprits, but we have been burned on a few. Thats also to say that we also have been succesful on occasion. Within the last few years, we even recovered a warehouse full of spares that was still in Central America. Parts will remain unnamed, but they were still NOS in original packaging.
As for recovering aircraft from the US. You always run the risk of a fight with the Navy, unless the a/c in question was legally sold by the DoD to a foreign country,, or an individual. Just dumping an aircraft over the side of a ship does not count as abandonment to them. Nor does leaving downed aircraft in the woods, on a mountain, or in the jungles. So be careful. There is a well documented case of SBD's being raised from the Great Lakes by an individual, and the subsequent court battle cost millions of dollars for both he, and the US Gov't (us). The airforce is also getting picky about aircraft as well. Lastly, the subject of war graves is sure to cause a stir, so do your homework before you even think of disturbing one. That alone will bring you imprisonment atleast, threat of death in certain countries, and massive $$$ fines for sure.
THis industry is a tough deal, and it requires lots of planning, "who you know", and plenty of communication with the right sources and officials. It can be rewarding, but mostly it is lots of behind the scenes work, that is never discussed.
:aok
-
Originally posted by Bodhi
MajorDay,
FYI, be VERY VERY careful about doing this sort of thing. If, the locals find out you are interested in what THEY consider to be worthless garbage, and are willing to spend beaucoup $$$ to restore it, then you become a very nice target for a kidnapping and / or extortion scheme. There have been multiple killings and kidnappings involved with these types of adventures in the past 10 years. As a restoration shop manager, I can not begin to tell you the loads of false tips, innacurate data, and downright despicable schemes that have ben passed on to us. Most came to no fruition for the culprits, but we have been burned on a few. Thats also to say that we also have been succesful on occasion. Within the last few years, we even recovered a warehouse full of spares that was still in Central America. Parts will remain unnamed, but they were still NOS in original packaging.
As for recovering aircraft from the US. You always run the risk of a fight with the Navy, unless the a/c in question was legally sold by the DoD to a foreign country,, or an individual. Just dumping an aircraft over the side of a ship does not count as abandonment to them. Nor does leaving downed aircraft in the woods, on a mountain, or in the jungles. So be careful. There is a well documented case of SBD's being raised from the Great Lakes by an individual, and the subsequent court battle cost millions of dollars for both he, and the US Gov't (us). The airforce is also getting picky about aircraft as well. Lastly, the subject of war graves is sure to cause a stir, so do your homework before you even think of disturbing one. That alone will bring you imprisonment atleast, threat of death in certain countries, and massive $$$ fines for sure.
THis industry is a tough deal, and it requires lots of planning, "who you know", and plenty of communication with the right sources and officials. It can be rewarding, but mostly it is lots of behind the scenes work, that is never discussed.
:aok
EEK! I never thought of that and I would have to say thank you for tell me about that. Sure, I do have to risk my life to do this, but I have no plan for "rising" Vought F4Us Corsair and I am looking forward to own the Corsair or donate the Museum only in USA or Great Britain. Please tell more about "risking" the plane and I would like to learn more about this.
Rafe35
-
Rafe,
Any aircraft that you recover is subject to the laws of:
#1. The original owner. (admiralty laws no longer apply as the US no longer subscribes to them.)
#2. The locale. i.e. where you find it. The locals, and you better damn well make sure it's the local with the top approval, they can make life hell really quick if you do not play by their rules.
#3. The transport jurisdictions. Guess what, if you ship that through a locale that wants to, they can confiscate it like their is no tomorrow. Seen that on a few occasions. MAke sure you research before you move it.
#4. Word of mouth. Everyone you deal with must be under a nondisclosure statement. Otherewise someone else will get word, and your gig will be up real quick, whether you have possesion or not. Ohhh, and one little thing, $ is not the end all be all of most people, but a pig, or cow, that may be just the penalty they would have to pay should they open their mouth.
#5. Health. Make damn sure you get immunized for all the b.s. stuff that is in the bush in the area you plan on going, and FOLLOW UP on those immunizations once in country. Take it from me, it sure is better to make sure you are immunized vs. getting "cholera" in some third world hell hole and being denied entry back to the states because you have a communicable disease.
Wish you luck, if ya want, drop me an email sometime,
northpointaerowc@aol.com
-
Originally posted by Bodhi
Rafe,
Any aircraft that you recover is subject to the laws of:
#1. The original owner. (admiralty laws no longer apply as the US no longer subscribes to them.)
#2. The locale. i.e. where you find it. The locals, and you better damn well make sure it's the local with the top approval, they can make life hell really quick if you do not play by their rules.
#3. The transport jurisdictions. Guess what, if you ship that through a locale that wants to, they can confiscate it like their is no tomorrow. Seen that on a few occasions. MAke sure you research before you move it.
#4. Word of mouth. Everyone you deal with must be under a nondisclosure statement. Otherewise someone else will get word, and your gig will be up real quick, whether you have possesion or not. Ohhh, and one little thing, $ is not the end all be all of most people, but a pig, or cow, that may be just the penalty they would have to pay should they open their mouth.
#5. Health. Make damn sure you get immunized for all the b.s. stuff that is in the bush in the area you plan on going, and FOLLOW UP on those immunizations once in country. Take it from me, it sure is better to make sure you are immunized vs. getting "cholera" in some third world hell hole and being denied entry back to the states because you have a communicable disease.
Wish you luck, if ya want, drop me an email sometime,
northpointaerowc@aol.com
Bodhi, I will drop you email probably tonight and thanks alot about this list.
Rafe35