Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bloom25 on December 15, 1999, 02:27:00 AM
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I will probably take a few flames for this, but I wanted to know what others thought. Tonight I was flying a b17 at 16 at 20k and proceeded to drop all my bombs. After I was done I called for a c47. At the time only 8 knights we on, but one of them agreeded to take a c47 to 16. When he was almost there I saw 2 n1ks and a 190 take off to chase our c47. Since there were no other fighters in the area, and I was out of bombs, I decided to chase the the cons after our c47 (they were in the air). I dropped alt and tried to catch them. As I passed over the base, an n1k appeared on the runway, so I quickly moved to my tailguns and proceeded to shoot at it. (With my wonderful aim, I missed with everyone of them. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) ) Later that flight someone accused me of ackstarring. I personally saw nothing wrong with what I had tried to do, if the con would have taken off (it did), it would have been on my 6. It was not as if I was circling the runway killing everything in sight; I was attempting to protect our c47 that was within 8k of being to the base. Unfortunately, our c47 was shot down by a 190 just as I got to it anyway. What I wanted to know is if what I did you would consider wrong? In the situation that I was in (3 cons ahead and 1 behind) I did not.
If what I did would be considered wrong by the majority, I will stop.
I personally consider shooting from the ground in a b17, or dropping troops from a c47 on the runway of a base that is about to be captured as wrong, and I do not do those things. (I did bomb both barracks at 16 to prevent this.)
What do the rest of you think?
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I see nuthing wrong with what you did. You were in the air, you were going to the aid of your wingie, and he (the N1k) was trying to up on a suppressed\capped field.
No Prob.
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GreyBeard
Flight Commander, Aces High
Skeleton Crew
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I thought that I would add that I was the only other knight in the area as the time.
(Also, to the rook who accused me of ackstarring, I actually appreciate you bringing the topic up. This will allow us to discuss it in hopefully a somewhat better manner than 1 line replies to each other.
No hard feelings here, everyone is allowed their own opinion, and I would appreciate if you would add your side of the story. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
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A typically more vulnerable lone 17 blows his alt protection to engage 4 nme fighters that are attacking a lone 47... and one of them cries Ackstar? Do I understand that correctly? Too bad ya missed him.
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hmmmmmmm,the last I checked ackstarring reffered to the use of an A/C equipped with AI gunners in an offencise manner.you know using good 'ol "OTTO" to do your killin!so why would anybody bring it up in here????did I miss a update that gives buffs otto?????
this is still Aces High right?,I haven't mistyped the addy in the address box??
just call em a moron and keep up the good work you guys at HTC (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
blow me up tom,whoopsy there I go again wrong BBS (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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when you least expect it.
there I'll be.... A perfect target :)
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You did what I would have done.If it's wrong to protect your C47 with what you have then somethings not right (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Packrat
1. Any small North American rodent that collects a great variety of small objects
Phoenix Squadron
Feel the heat
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I agree with Nash. You need to learn to shoot better. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Dont worry bloom...my fav thing to do in a buff is kill the acks at a field then start making vultch runs across the runway......this IS war ya know (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Some believed the accusation of Ackstar™ would go away with Otto.
In AH, Ackstarring is fun.
The most hated form of Ackstarring with Otto, field defense, is still possible with the AH b17, but not very effective. To have any shot at all, you need two players, and then the effectiveness is far below a spit with .303s (still, it can be entertaining) -- you just can't shoot that well while maneuvering.
OTOH, as long as you've got field capture strat with vulnerable troop carriers, you've got a reason for buffs to engage. And, I must say, I love the AH buff gunnery system -- strafing is fun, and taking off from a b17-capped field is suicide.
Still, the best way to clear a field for the bus is to drag the enemy CAP. If they don't seem the following type, go vulch a couple, then, when they come after you, yell "LEt me go guys, my tailgunner's out of ammo".
BTW, just outta curiosity, does HTC's facilities include a bunk and a shower?
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You were wise to strafe the runway. Many times last night we shot descending troops in their chutes (to prevent capture). Had that Nikki launched he would certainly have done the same. The Rooks finally had to bring multiple (and I mean multiple) C47's to get the job done.
I love to watch guys trying to launch B17's from a capped field... maybe one in ten gets his wheels off the ground before the fighters get him. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by dolomite (edited 12-15-1999).]
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Nope you did nothing wrong by my standards. You used the weapons at your disposal.
The other day I was flying with Cleaner (think it was cleaner) as a gunner. We had just flattened a rook field and were coming home. (Cleaner with 2 kills hehe). As we were starting our descent, I spotted a lone C47 trying to sneak up on our fields. There were none of our fighters in the grid, so down we went. Unfortunately, the silly C47 had a N1K1 trailing as escort, and by the time we were able to blow our alt, the N1K1 decided that we didn't need the left wing.
Use the resources available to you, its WAR!
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"Just Plane Nuts"
Gazoo
http://plaza.v-wave.com/SolarStorm/index.htm (http://plaza.v-wave.com/SolarStorm/index.htm)
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I had to explain to my sons yesterday at dinner that I was an Ackstaring Buff-vulching dweeb. They thought it was hillarios. On Monday I capped 21 with a low buff after I took out the flak. I got 3 kills out of it and I managed to hold down a bishop until we could get one more drunk to the field. One of the first stick had dropped just too far from the field so he stood there with his sign glowing watching the battle. It was fun watching his buddys do their neon fighting patrol into the bunker from about 3 k out. Took about 5 min. I took out 2 bish fighters trying to take off.
I guess that there where several (3) bish pilots in the tower at the time that the second drop took place because as soon as it was droped 3 of them jumped into planes to gun fight the drunks on the ground. Well I was firing at them pretty good but as soon as the first drunk blew at the bunker the field was ours. And the ack opened up from both ends.....he he.
On hearing the story one son(6) was troubled that I would do something so underhanded. The other son(8) wanted to man my belly turrent.
My wife(31) was just worried......
None of the Bishops(12) mentioned any problems with it.
I will say that I felt increadably vulnerable the whole time. If one of the pilots had chosen his take off vector a bit more carfully I would have been toast. Is there anything more vulnerable that a buff at 2k? Except a 47 of course.
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Not to throw my 2 cents in here... uhh
nevermind, I'm throwing my 2 cents in!
hehehe
Is it fair? No. Is it legal and/or right? Hell yes. This is WAR. I've been on both sides of the argument and I'm sorry. If I'm on the ground, and I KNOW there are enemies above, I expect to get hit before taking off, if I don't, I do my damnest to get up and give at least a LITTLE chase. If I'm in the air above an airfield that we just got the ack down on, Hell YES I'm gonna stay there making sure no fighters take off to kill my precious incoming C47. It's the way it goes. How many pilots in WWII complained about "unfair tactics" ?
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not counting the gooney bird, probably the only thing more vulnerable than a 17 at 2k is a 17 at 2k that's outta ammo for his guns =)
I ackstar. I'll drop the acks on a field and if no friendly fighters are about I'll do a spiral dive to about 500-1000ft and start circling the field. I also attempt to get my 17 up from capped fields on the brink of capture sometimes. My average of success is about 1 in 3 attempts. Once the gear is off the runway I'm in the tail gun shooting whichever fighter is trying to run up me 6 =)
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I was the N1K2 trying to get off that field, and I don't think you did anything to cry "foul" about. I've not done it myself, but that's because I'm only mediocre as a buff gunner. I would have done the same thing if the roles were reversed, and hold no bad feelings about the incident. Personally, I take a somewhat masocisdic pride in attempting to get off from a capped field. It's quite a thrill when I manage to pull the wheels up and throw a few rounds towards the guy who blew his approach trying to vultch me.
I also don't think there's anything wrong with hopping in a fighter, goosing the engine to get my tail off the ground, and running to ground and drunks running for the bunker. Since in real life there would be defending troops to do this kind of dirty work, killing them from a fighter (airborn or doing a fast taxi) simply compensates for the absence of defenders.
It may be only a game, but...well, damn it, it IS war. Now shooting pilots in their chutes...well, that's a topic for another post (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
Sabre (a.k.a. Rojo)
[This message has been edited by Rojo (edited 12-15-1999).]
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Good to hear the positive response. (Now I wish I would have hit him (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) FYI I did later shoot down the b17 of the person who accused me of ackstarring, with a b17. It was quite a battle, high g's in a 17 at 5k off the ground. It took well over 50+ pings to get him. Lots of fun! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
The person who accused me of ackstarring (it was not Rojo ) did so after I complemented him on the great b17 vs. b17 battle we had.
I would still like to hear from him to get his side of the story.
(To Rojo: I too like to try to take off from capped fields. It's a lot of fun if you can make it up, because there's always a fighter or two right in front of you to shoot at. I gotten a lot of kills doing this, (got killed even more times while doing it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) )
Guess all I have to do now is improve my gunnery. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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As long as its a human gunner, I have no problem with this!
BTW: Last nite, I had a B17 try to sneak up on my B17. It became an airborne gunboat battle and was a blast.
Anyone up for getting maybe 12 people together in 2 sides of 3 B17s w/gunners and have an airborne battle. I am!
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I'm for it jarbo, it'd be a riot =)
I was rtb from a sortie earlier today and got a call of a high 17 hitting one of our fields. So I climbed back up and pretty much went HO with this other 17. Jumped to the chin gun and stood on the trigger, sawing of his right wing =) Sure was pretty watching it catch fire and start tumbling down =)
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ackstar is a warbirds term, and is usually said of someone who uses his robot gunners to attack other aircraft instead of only relying on them for defense. The robot gunners of Warbirds are so accurate it's not even worth laughing at. So in this case, since you were the one doing to shooting, I see no problem. Good thing pyro and ht decided to not repeat their mistake of the past.
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The two things that drive me nuts about B-17s has nothing to do with defensive gunnery. It's 1) lack of a realistic ceiling, and 2) lack of stress limits. What I don't understand is why the B-17 is allowed to fly above 30k when it would have seriously jeopardized the gunner crew who were completely exposed to the elements. Flying up there like a pressurized 747 is very unrealistic.
The other thing, stress limits, will be fixed as soon as HTC get to modelling it, but in the meantime, I'll have to endure the diving attacks of BnZ B-17s. And yes, just yesterday morning I was bounced by a frickin' Flying Fortress at 20k, finally shaking him off with a split ess (he couldn't follow that). As it was, the buff keep alt and went its maniacally merry way. What was I flying? A La-5FN.
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129 IAP VVS RKKA
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Only the c-47 has a worse kill ratio than the b-17 in AH (it's about .69 kills per death). flying a CAP over a field in a B-17 is no easier than in any other plane. Once fighters are airborn they should be able to run from a B-17 if they choose to.
eskimo
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I think we should come up with a new name for this procedure. The term ackstar does not apply in AH.
If you were diving to the aid of an unarmed countryman, in a B-17 maybe we should call them "BraveStars"
Its tough to switch from gun to gun and maintain level flight.
That's my 2 cents :-)
JOLT