Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: davidpt40 on December 14, 2003, 10:35:40 PM
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LONDON (Reuters) -- Trophy-hunting has taken an
evolutionary toll on Canada's bighorn sheep, scientists
said on Wednesday.
Their magnificent horns are getting smaller because the
biggest rams with the most impressive examples are
being shot before they have mated and passed on their
genes.
"Because you don't have the best rams mating, they
aren't reproducing and the population isn't seeing the
best genetic variability," said Dr Curtis Strobek, of the
University of Alberta in Canada. ....'
http://rense.com/general45/horn.htm
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They have smaller horns? Big deal. I'm devastated by this report.
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tards
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Too bad we can't hunt liberals before they have a chance to mate.
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That doesn't seem to follow. The rams reach breeding age long before they get the massive horns. The horns are best towards the start of the end of their breeding career so they should have already passed on their genes earlier.
This has been the case with deer herds and their numbers are far in excess of what they were 200 years ago.
I think I smell an antihunting theme to this "report".
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Originally posted by AKIron
Too bad we can't hunt liberals before they have a chance to mate.
:rofl
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Reproduction
Rutting season lasts from July to December, with births taking place in the spring. Males engage in battles (head-to-head) over mating access to a particular female. Some battles have been observed to last as long as 24 hours. They begin battle snorting, grunting, and pushing their front hooves at each other. They move several feet away, rare up on their hind legs, and charge toward the head-to-head crash. The force is amazing and can be heard for up to a half mile. Often horns are broken in these battles. The winner can sustain chipped or broken horns, which are permanent. Although capable of breeding at around two years of age, most rams will not participate in the breeding process until seven or eight years of age. When they reach this age they are finally able to exhibit the dominance through body size, horn development, and head butting to actually breed females.
It's still natural selection for the rams with the ability to dominate the other rams. You still get the best available.
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Couldn't some scientist just genetically alter the rams to have bigger horns?
MiniD
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On the surface, this doesn't seem like a big deal. But horn size could be an indicator of health or some other important factor.
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Hate to say it but I used to hunt animals when I was a teen ager. I feel guilty because they were so defensless. Never again will I shoot at defensless animals. Poor things.
:(
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Went on a elephant cull once - was providing security for the rangers - they take out the whole herd at a time - was pretty nasty business. But since elephants actually destroy their habitat if kept in a confined range it has to be done - no-one there took much pleasure in it.
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Just saying...there are 3 types of hunters:
~Horn hunters(They hunt for the biggest rack)
~Meat hunters(They could care less about horns, just want the meat)
~Those who care less about coming in contact with game, they just enjoy being outdoors hunting.
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Ripsnort,
You missed one. The hunter that is a complete failure in life and tries to make up for this buy killing animals. He kills for the joy of killing..nothing more. There are more of these tards than you think.....
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Ripsnort,
You missed one. The hunter that is a complete failure in life and tries to make up for this buy killing animals. He kills for the joy of killing..nothing more. There are more of these tards than you think.....
Some of those people you describe would fall under horn hunters (trophy hunters). They account for their "thrill kill" with the horns.
Most of the trophy hunters I know consume the meat as well as display the racks over the fireplace. I don't have a problem with trophy hunters as long as they consume the meat, or it does not involve an endangered species.
Personally, I fall under the latter two descriptions. If I get something, fine, if not, fine as well. The preparation of the hunt, the adrenline pump while stalking, the conquest of the kill, eating what you kill, its all part of hunting. If no kill, the preparation and the hunt itself is fine by me, I just enjoy being out in nature.
Keep in mind in this country, your modern day "Tree Huggers" evolved from a smaller group of hunters that disliked the over-harvest of game in the turn of the 20th century.
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Interesting. In Arizona this year, the largest elk shot with a bow, the largest elk taken with a muzzleloader and the largest antelope were all killed. In Utah, IIRC, the largest elk taken with a rifle was killed. These are the largest taken in the US ever.
So, while, according to this article, bighorn sheep horns are getting smaller, the size of elk in the US are getting bigger. Which flies in the face of the author's theory.
So, either the US wildlife services are doing a much better job of handling its herds (which I don't think is the case) or perhaps there's another reason for what this doctor is supposedly seeing.
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Journal of Mammalogy: Vol. 83, No. 3, pp. 682–698.
INFLUENCE OF TROPHY HUNTING AND HORN SIZE ON MATING BEHAVIOR AND SURVIVORSHIP OF MOUNTAIN SHEEP
Francis J. Singer,a and Linda C. Zeigenfussa
aU.S. Geological Survey, Midcontinent Ecological Science Center, and Natural Resources Ecology Lab, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523
ABSTRACT
We conducted a study of the effects of horn sizes and trophy hunting on mating behavior and survival of rams in hunted and unhunted populations of Dall sheep (Ovis dalli), Rocky Mountain bighorn (O. canadensis canadensis), and desert bighorn (O. c. nelsoni) sheep. Mating success was positively correlated with horn size in Dall sheep (P = 0.03) and Rocky Mountain bighorns (P = 0.05), but not in the desert bighorn (P > 0.05) taxa. Group sizes, rams per rut group, and competition between rams were lowest in desert bighorn sheep. There were indications of greater harassment of ewes by young rams in trophy-hunted populations. In hunted populations, compared with unhunted, ewes ran away more often from approaching rams, ewes moved farther away from courting young rams (P = 0.003), younger rams performed fewer courtship displays (P = 0.042) and more aggressive displays to ewes, and sheep interacted 27% more of the time. Ram-to-ewe interaction times per individual ewe did not differ for any of the taxa (P > 0.05), and, apparently as a consequence of this, we found no discernable effects of trophy hunting on survivorship of ewes, ewe fecundity, or recruitment of young (P > 0.05). There were greater energy expenditures by young rams in the heavily hunted Dall sheep population versus the paired Dall sheep unhunted population, but not in the lightly hunted Rocky Mountain and desert bighorn populations when compared with unhunted populations. This was consistent with evidence for depressed survivorship of rams too young or too small to be hunted (approximately ages 4–6) in the heavily hunted Dall sheep population (P = 0.0001), but not in the bighorn sheep populations (P > 0.05).
Keywords: mating behavior, Ovis canadensis, Ovis dalli, survivorship, trophy hunting.
Submitted: 12 September 2000
Manuscript Accepted 27 November 2001
Section Editor: John G. Kie
© 2002, American Society of Mammalogists
http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?request=get-abstract&issn=0022-2372&volume=083&issue=03&page=0682
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Gee david, after reading Dunes article by field biologists, now its hard to tell whos telling the truth! ;)
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look at those shifty eyes.
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Once again, davidpt only posts something of a negative theme.
Never anything really interesting, positive or thought provoking.
Must be an abused child.
dago
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Once again, davidpt only posts something of a negative theme.
Never anything really interesting, positive or thought provoking.
Must be an abused child.
OTOH, this is a prime example of a happy-clapper, sunshine post.
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LONDON (Reuters) -- Trophy-hunting has taken an
evolutionary toll on Canada's bighorn sheep, scientists
said on Wednesday.
Why the hell can't they do the same for Canadian Geese???
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The Boone and Crockett club keeps track of the biggest antelered animals taken in the world. They are the Guiness book for hunting. They list the largest bighorn as one taken in 2002 in Alberta. Seems there are still some big ones in Canada.
BTW, this is what animal populations ahve done in the last century:
(http://www.nraila.org/images/GR.gif)
This is what a century of conservation and sustainable hunting has brought us. Larger populations which means a bigger gene pool and healthier herds. I would suspect that whoever wrote that study has an axe to grind.
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Originally posted by Maverick
That doesn't seem to follow. The rams reach breeding age long before they get the massive horns. The horns are best towards the start of the end of their breeding career so they should have already passed on their genes earlier.
This has been the case with deer herds and their numbers are far in excess of what they were 200 years ago.
I think I smell an antihunting theme to this "report".
Get out of here, with your evil common sense. Murderer!
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I don't know about bighorn sheep but in California we bracket Sturgeon, not sure of the sizes but I think they have to be over 42" and under 60" (or whatever) to keep. Buddy of mine caught one that was over 72" and he had to let it go...I wasn't there, but he said he cried.
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There's areas that "bracket" elk too.
In some Colorado areas you can shoot spikes or four point or better but nothing in between. Other areas, no spikes.
Game animals and hunting are "managed" all the time.
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I counted a flock of over 50 wild turkeys at my Parents' place.
One reason deer and elk are more plentiful is that areas that have been logged provide better habitat for them than areas of old growth forrest. Told that to a tree hugger once and they got PO'd, but it's true.
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Originally posted by Airhead
I counted a flock of over 50 wild turkeys at my Parents' place.
One reason deer and elk are more plentiful is that areas that have been logged provide better habitat for them than areas of old growth forrest. Told that to a tree hugger once and they got PO'd, but it's true.
Yup, many treehuggers don't realise that an old-growth forest is just a desert covered by trees. That's why for thousands of years the Indians burned huge swaths of forests, to give grasslands and young forests a chance to grow, increasing the productivity of the land immeasurably. The Great Plains were man-made.
ra
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Go take your anti-depressants dago.
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Originally posted by Dune
The Boone and Crockett club keeps track of the biggest antelered animals taken in the world. They are the Guiness book for hunting. They list the largest bighorn as one taken in 2002 in Alberta. Seems there are still some big ones in Canada.
BTW, this is what animal populations ahve done in the last century:
(http://www.nraila.org/images/GR.gif)
This is what a century of conservation and sustainable hunting has brought us. Larger populations which means a bigger gene pool and healthier herds. I would suspect that whoever wrote that study has an axe to grind.
Geez, you forgot to list the population levels of the predators. I don't see griz listed anywhere? Wolves? Cougars? Jaguar (Texas)?
curly
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Originally posted by ra
Get out of here, with your evil common sense. Murderer!
I'm not a murderer. Those deer were armed, I swear it!!! Bagdad Bob will corroborate the story!
:p :lol
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I've hunted and taken just about every kind of Game there is to take on the north American con... All but Big Horn... Never had the time or the chance, or it was all bad timing when a good hunt came up. I see a new hunt for me in my near future... :aok
These terds need more Hobbies and less time...:rolleyes:
Morph