Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MrLars on December 17, 2003, 06:25:40 PM
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/eveningnews/main589137.shtml
Can't wait for the RW spin machine's take on this.
And Condi...she's proven to be a liar now....IMO.
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HindSight is always 20/20....
shrecking liberal.... I bet he coulda done better.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by MrLars
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/eveningnews/main589137.shtml
Can't wait for the RW spin machine's take on this.
And Condi...she's proven to be a liar now....IMO.
HAHAHAHA, I think your tinfoil beanie is getting loose.
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And Condi...she's proven to be a liar now....IMO.
Aaah! Condoleezza Rice, another Black woman Liberals can't control. It has to hurt deep.
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Yep if Klinton would have headed the warnings and taken OBL when he had the chance it would never have happened.
The piece stated the FBI had warnings two years before the attack, quick who was the Pres in 1999... ahhh times up.
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"How is it possible we have a national security advisor coming out and saying we had no idea they could use planes as weapons when we had FBI records from 1991 stating that this is a possibility,"
Okay, I'm going to do something brave like the FBI and go out on a limb and say that terrorists could possibly use chemical or nuclear weapons on civilians.
There. Feel better? I can read a cystal ball. Now, you MrLars, please act on this information.:rofl
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
"How is it possible we have a national security advisor coming out and saying we had no idea they could use planes as weapons when we had FBI records from 1991 stating that this is a possibility,"
Okay, I'm going to do something brave like the FBI and go out on a limb and say that terrorists could possibly use chemical or nuclear weapons on civilians.
There. Feel better? I can read a cystal ball. Now, you MrLars, please act on this information.:rofl
Yes MrLars,
I want a report on my desk outlining the steps you are going to do and when. Any attack of this sort will now and forever be your fault and you will be held responsible, you were warned by Rip on this date that this could happen and it is now in your hands.
I also think the STA-PUFF man may attack the city in the next 10 years, so get on that also, you'r our man
:aok
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LOL...the spin is making me dizzy....why don't y'all wait for the formal hearings...after the Whitehouse finaly cooperates with the commission.....that is if GWB doesn't claim 'executive privledge".
Ask yourselves truthfully....what would YOU think if this happened durring Clintons watch...would you be as 'forgiving'? Or would you be screaming for a special prosecuter?
IMO, the administration will try to deflect the blame on the FBI, CIA and the Clinton administration cause we all should know that the buck only stops in GWB's oval office when it's placed in someones pocket.
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Originally posted by MrLars
LOL...the spin is making me dizzy....why don't y'all wait for the formal hearings...after the Whitehouse finaly cooperates with the commission.....that is if GWB doesn't claim 'executive privledge".
Ask yourselves truthfully....what would YOU think if this happened durring Clintons watch...would you be as 'forgiving'? Or would you be screaming for a special prosecuter?
IMO, the administration will try to deflect the blame on the FBI, CIA and the Clinton administration cause we all should know that the buck only stops in GWB's oval office when it's placed in someones pocket.
Waaaaaah, Gore lost the election....Waaaaaaaah
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Originally posted by Martlet
Waaaaaah, Gore lost the election....Waaaaaaaah
Jeebus you're predictable.
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Originally posted by MrLars
LOL...the spin is making me dizzy....why don't y'all wait for the formal hearings...after the Whitehouse finaly cooperates with the commission.....that is if GWB doesn't claim 'executive privledge".
Ask yourselves truthfully....what would YOU think if this happened durring Clintons watch...would you be as 'forgiving'? Or would you be screaming for a special prosecuter?
IMO, the administration will try to deflect the blame on the FBI, CIA and the Clinton administration cause we all should know that the buck only stops in GWB's oval office when it's placed in someones pocket.
It did happen on his watch, not only the first bombing but the planing and training for the 9/11 attack. I ask you will that administration be investigated?
What was the reason Klinton cut funding to the CIA, refused to take the warnings he was given seriously?
Would you mind if he is given the blame for the attack (I blame him)?
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"when we had FBI records from 1991 stating that this is a possibility,"
Let's see.
election 1992. Knew for 8 years. Did nothing to sure up our boarders. Passed on OBL. Passed off problems to next president be it Gore or Bush.
Are you begining to see the pattern?
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I've been sitting on this for awhile I guess now is a good time to post it.
Attacks on Americans during the Clinton Administration
January 25, 1993, Virginia, United States. A Pakistani gunman opened fire on Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) employees standing outside of the building. Two agents, Frank Darling and Bennett Lansing, were killed and three others wounded. The assailant was never caught and reportedly fled to Pakistan.
February 26, 1993, Cairo, Egypt. A bomb exploded inside a café in downtown Cairo killing three. Among the 18 wounded were two U.S. citizens. No one claimed responsibility for the attack.
February 26, 1993, New York, United States. A massive van bomb exploded in an underground parking garage below the World Trade Center in New York City, killing six and wounding 1,042. Four Islamist activists were responsible for the attack. Ramzi Ahmed Yousef (Right Photo), the operation's alleged mastermind, escaped but was later arrested in Pakistan and extradited to the United States. Abd al-Hakim Murad, another suspected conspirator, was arrested by local authorities in the Philippines and handed over to the United States. The two, along with two other terrorists, were tried in the U.S. and sentenced to 240 years.
April 14, 1993, Kuwait. The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack two months later on the Iraqi capital, Baghdad.
July 5, 1993, Southeast Turkey. In eight separate incidents, the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) kidnapped a total of 19 Western tourists traveling in southeastern Turkey. The hostages, including U.S. citizen Colin Patrick Starger, were released unharmed after spending several weeks in captivity.
March 8, 1995, Karachi, Pakistan. Two unidentified gunmen armed with AK-47 assault rifles opened fire on a U.S. Consulate van in Karachi, killing two U.S. diplomats, Jacqueline Keys Van Landingham and Gary C. Durell, and wounding a third, Mark McCloy.
April 9, 1995, Kfar Darom and Netzarim, Gaza Strip. Two suicide attacks were carried out within a few hours of each other in Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip. In the first attack a suicide bomber crashed an explosive-rigged van into an Israeli bus in Netzarim, killing eight including U.S. citizen Alisa Flatow (Left Photo). Over 30 others were injured. In the second attack, a suicide bomber detonated a car bomb in the midst of a convoy of cars in Kfar Darom, injuring 12. The Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) Shaqaqi Faction claimed responsibility for the attacks.
July 4, 1995, Kashmir, India. In Kashmir, a previously unknown militant group, Al-Faran, with suspected links to a Kashmiri separatist group in Pakistan, took hostage six tourists, including two U.S. citizens. They demanded the release of Muslim militants held in Indian prisons. One of the U.S. citizens escaped on July 8, while on August 13 the decapitated body of the Norwegian hostage was found along with a note stating that the other hostages also would be killed if the group's demands were not met. The Indian Government refused. Both Indian and American authorities believe the rest of the hostages were most likely killed in 1996 by their jailers.
August 1995, Istanbul, Turkey. A bombing of Istanbul's popular Taksim Square injured two U.S. citizens. This attack was part of a three-year-old attempt by the PKK to drive foreign tourists away from Turkey by striking at tourist sites.
August 21, 1995, Jerusalem, Israel. A bus bombing in Jerusalem by the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) killed four, including American Joan Davenny, and wounded more than 100.
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November 9, 1995, Algiers, Algeria. Islamic extremists set fire to a warehouse belonging to the U.S. Embassy, threatened the Algerian security guard because he was working for the United States, and demanded to know whether any U.S. citizens were present. The Armed Islamic Group (GIA) probably carried out the attacks. The group had threatened to strike other foreign targets and especially U.S. objectives in Algeria, and the attack's style was similar to past GIA operations against foreign facilities.
November 13, 1995, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. A car bomb exploded in the parking lot outside of the Riyadh headquarters of the Office of the Program Manager/Saudi Arabian National Guard, killing seven persons, five of them U.S. citizens, and wounding 42. The blast severely damaged the three-story building, which houses a U.S. military advisory group, and several neighboring office buildings. Three groups -- the Islamic Movement for Change, the Tigers of the Gulf, and the Combatant Partisans of God -- claimed responsibility for the attack.
February 25, 1996, Jerusalem, Israel. A suicide bomber blew up a commuter bus in Jerusalem, killing 26, including three U.S. citizens, and injuring 80 others, among them another three U.S. citizens. Hamas claimed responsibility for the bombing.
March 4, 1996, Tel Aviv, Israel. A suicide bomber detonated an explosive device outside the Dizengoff Center, Tel Aviv's largest shopping mall, killing 20 persons and injuring 75 others, including two U.S. citizens. Both Hamas and the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the bombing. May 13, 1996, Beit-El, West Bank. Arab gunmen opened fire on a hitchhiking stand near Beit El, wounding three Israelis and killing David Boim (Right Photo), 17, an American- Israeli from New York. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, although either the Islamic Jihad or Hamas are suspected.
June 9, 1996, Zekharya, West Bank. Yaron Ungar, an American-Israeli, and his Israeli wife were killed in a drive-by shooting near their West Bank home. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is suspected.
June 25, 1996, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. A fuel truck carrying a bomb exploded outside the U.S. military's Khobar Towers housing facility in Dhahran, killing 19 U.S. military personnel and wounding 515 persons, including 240 U.S. personnel. Several groups claimed responsibility for the attack. In June 2001, a U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Virginia, identified Saudi Hizballah as the party responsible for the attack. The court indicated that the members of the organization, banned from Saudi Arabia, "frequently met and were trained in Lebanon, Syria, or Iran" with Libyan help.
August 17, 1996, Mapourdit, Sudan. Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA) rebels kidnapped six missionaries in Mapourdit, including a U.S citizen. The SPLA released the hostages on August 28.
November 1, 1996, Sudan. A breakaway group of the Sudanese People's Liberation Army (SPLA) kidnapped three workers of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), including one U.S citizen. The rebels released the hostages on December 9 in exchange for ICRC supplies and a health survey of their camp.
December 3, 1996, Paris, France. A bomb exploded aboard a Paris subway train, killing four and injuring 86 persons, including a U.S. citizen. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but Algerian extremists are suspected.
January 2, 1997, Major cities worldwide, United States. A series of letter bombs with Alexandria, Egypt postmarks were discovered at Al-Hayat newspaper bureaus in Washington, DC, New York, London, and Riyadh. Three similar devices, also postmarked in Egypt, were found at a prison facility in Leavenworth, Kansas. Bomb disposal experts defused all the devices, but one detonated at the Al-Hayat newspaper office in London, injuring two security guards and causing minor damage.
February 23, 1997, New York, United States. Ali Hassan Abu Kamal, a Palestinian teacher, opened fire on the 86th-floor observation deck of New York City's Empire State Building, killing killing a Danish national and wounding six others before shooting himself to death. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."
July 30, 1997, Jerusalem, Israel. Two bombs detonated in Jerusalem's Mahane Yehuda market, killing 15 persons, including a U.S. citizen and wounding 168 others, among them two U.S. citizens. The Izz-el-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas' military wing, claimed responsibility for the attack.
October 30, 1997, Sanaa, Yemen. Al-Sha'if tribesmen kidnapped a U.S. businessman near Sanaa. The tribesmen sought the release of two fellow tribesmen who were arrested on smuggling charges and several public works projects they claim the government promised them. The hostage was released on November 27.
November 12, 1997, Karachi, Pakistan. Two unidentified gunmen shot to death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas Petroleum and their Pakistani driver as they drove away from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. Two groups claimed responsibility -- the Islamic Inqilabi Council, or Islamic Revolutionary Council and the Aimal Secret Committee, also known as the Aimal Khufia Action Committee.
November 25, 1997, Aden, Yemen. Yemenite tribesmen kidnapped a U.S citizen, two Italians, and two unspecified Westerners near Aden to protest the eviction of a tribe member from his home. The kidnappers released the five hostages on November 27.
April 19, 1998, Maon, Israel. Dov Driben, a 28-year-old American-Israeli farmer was killed by terrorists near the West Bank town of Maon. One of his assailants, Issa Debavseh, a member of Fatah Tanzim, was killed on November 7, 2001, by the IDF after being on their wanted list for the murder.
June 21, 1998, Beirut, Lebanon. Two hand-grenades were thrown at the U.S. Embassy in Beirut. No casualties were reported.
June 21, 1998, Beirut, Lebanon. Three rocket-propelled grenades attached to a crude detonator exploded near the U.S. Embassy compound in Beirut, causing no casualties and little damage. August 7, 1998, Nairobi, Kenya. A car bomb exploded at the rear entrance of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi. The attack killed a total of 292, including 12 U.S. citizens, and injured over 5,000, among them six Americans. The perpetrators belonged to al-Qaida, Usama bin Ladin's network.
August 7, 1998, Dar es Sala'am, Tanzania. A car bomb exploded outside the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Sala'am, killing 11 and injuring 86. Osama bin Laden's organization al-Qaida claimed responsibility for the attack. Two suspects were arrested.
November 21, 1998, Teheran, Iran. Members of Fedayeen Islam, shouting anti-American slogans and wielding stones and iron rods, attacked a group of American tourists in Tehran. Some of the tourists suffered minor injuries from flying glass.
December 28, 1998, Mawdiyah, Yemen. Sixteen tourists--12 Britons, two Americans and two Australians--were taken hostage in the largest kidnapping in Yemen's recent history. The tourists were seized in the Abyan province (some 175 miles south of Sanaa the capital). One Briton and a Yemeni guide escaped, while the rest were taken to city of Mawdiyah. Four hostages were killed when troops closed in and two were wounded, including an American woman. The kidnappers, members of the Islamic Army of Aden-Abyan, an offshoot of Al-Jihad, had demanded the release from jail of their leader, Saleh Haidara al-Atwi.
October 31, 1999, Nantucket, Massachusetts, United States. EgyptAir Flight 990 crashed off the U.S. coast killing all 217 people on board, including 100 Americans. Although it is not precisely clear what happened, evidence indicated that an Egyptian pilot, Ahmed el-Habashy (Right Photo), crashed the plane for personal or political reasons.
November 4, 1999, Athens, Greece. A group protesting President Clinton's visit to Greece hid a gas bomb at an American car dealership in Athens. Two cars were destroyed and several others damaged. Anti-State Action claimed responsibility for the attack, but the November 17 group was also suspected.
November 12, 1999, Islamabad, Pakistan. Six rockets were fired at the U.S. Information Services cultural center and United Nations offices in Islamabad, injuring a Pakistani guard.
October 8, 2000, Nablus, West Bank. The bullet-ridden body of Hillel Lieberman, a U.S. citizen living in the Jewish settlement of Elon Moreh, was found at the entrance to the West Bank town of Nablus. Lieberman had headed there after hearing that Palestinians had desecrated the religious site, Joseph's Tomb. No organization claimed responsibility for the murder.
October 12, 2000, Aden Harbor, Yemen. A suicide squad rammed the warship the U.S.S. Cole with an explosives-laden boat killing 13 American sailors and injuring 33. The attack was likely by Osama bin Ladin's al-Qaida organization.
October 30, 2000, Jerusalem, Israel. Gunmen killed Eish Kodesh Gilmor, a 25-year-old American-Israeli on duty as a security guard at the National Insurance Institute in Jerusalem. The "Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada," a group linked to Fatah, claimed responsibility for the attack. Gilmor's family filed a suit in the U.S. District Court in Washington against the Palestinian Authority, the PLO, Chairman Yasser Arafat and members of Force 17, as being responsible for the attack.
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I want a special commission on this (see above)
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The more you read and observe about this Politics thing, you got to admit that each party is worse than the other. The one that's out always looks the best.
[That's still true. Thanks for the insight Will.]
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Quote:
"The one that's out always looks the best. "
You saying that the Democrat Party(the one that is out - way out)is looking the BEST these days? I guess you mean they look like pretty good lunatics....
C.
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Clinton did more than any other President to combat terrorism. Bush's "Operation Ignore the Problem" didn't work worth a darn.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Clinton did more than any other President to combat terrorism.
Like...?
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Originally posted by Cabby44
Quote:
"The one that's out always looks the best. "
You saying that the Democrat Party(the one that is out - way out)is looking the BEST these days? I guess you mean they look like pretty good lunatics....
C.
I've gotta agree. If I were a Democrat, the only vote I could cast with a clear conscience this primary would be for Lieberman.
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why don't you try and list attacks on americans since bush has been in office. you are gonna need about 100 times as much space. since we declared war on a noun.
and i love how you guys cut and past other people stuff you have "been sitting on"
give a source or stfu. stop stealing peoples work, as you obviously didnt compose it. even if the source is easily discredited.
p.s. isreali citizens who carry u.s. citizenship arn't. as their first loyalty is to their country not mine. personal thing admittedly.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Like...?
I'm glad you asked....
1993 - WTC #1 - Captured tried and convicted the perps.
(the same perps were planning to kill the Pope and to blow up 12 US airliners simultaneously. didn't happen.
Clinton tripled the counterterrorism budget for the FBI and doubled counterterrorism funding overall.
Both very successful crime bills included anti-terror provisions.
His was the 1st administration to coordinate Nationwide simulations to test preparedness of local response teams for terrorist attacks.
Created the 1st nationwide stockpile of vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.
When Clinton asked for even more funding in 1996 Orin Hatch (R) said " The administration would be wise to utilize the resources already provided before asking for more."
Clinton asked for increased wiretap authority after the Oklahoma City bombing... Gingrich helped shut it down. (Can you say "Patriot Act"?)
Immediately after the embassy bombings in Kenya Clinton issued a Presidential directive authorizing the assasination of OBL.
Clinton appointed Richard Clark as the 1st National Antiterrorism Coordinator.
Before Clinton left office he directed Clark to come up with a plan...That plan was presented to Condi and GWB and it included....
1. Attack and break up Al Quaida cells
2. Attack financial support freeze assets.
3. Assist other Govt's having Al Quaida trouble (Yemen, Phillipines and Uzbekistan)
4. Scale up covert action in Afghanistan to eliminate training camps and get to Bin Laden
5. Support the Northern Alliance and palce special forces on the ground in Afghanistan.
(exactly what Bush decided to do..... too late)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
(exactly what Bush decided to do..... too late)
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Bush executed the plan Clinton 'was sitting on.'
PS: Ditto Martlet. If I was to vote Democrat - JL would be the one I would support. Seems to be the only level headed candidate of the bunch.
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" such as warnings from FBI offices in Minnesota and Arizona about suspicious student pilots.
"
all else is the babbling of scared extremists.
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Yeah I'm sure Condi was aware of every last document created by the FBI in the last 20 years. Talk about spin Mrlars, sweat jeasious.
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It probably was preventable. If only we'd recognized the threat many years earlier and taken steps to infiltrate these terrorist organizations sooner. But hey, let's just blame Bush and stick our heads in the sand.
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911 is clintons fault. he knew all along......
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Like...?
Geez Saurdaukar, didn't you see the setup? I can understand if you did and wanted to see the arguement anyway. But with a moniker like that I hope you saw it.
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Originally posted by Yeager
911 is clintons fault. he knew all along......
That's right, as was on Truman's plaque, "The buck stops with the guy that was on watch before me.".
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I'm glad you asked....
1993 - WTC #1 - Captured tried and convicted the perps.
(the same perps were planning to kill the Pope and to blow up 12 US airliners simultaneously. didn't happen.
Clinton tripled the counterterrorism budget for the FBI and doubled counterterrorism funding overall.
Both very successful crime bills included anti-terror provisions.
His was the 1st administration to coordinate Nationwide simulations to test preparedness of local response teams for terrorist attacks.
Created the 1st nationwide stockpile of vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.
When Clinton asked for even more funding in 1996 Orin Hatch (R) said " The administration would be wise to utilize the resources already provided before asking for more."
Clinton asked for increased wiretap authority after the Oklahoma City bombing... Gingrich helped shut it down. (Can you say "Patriot Act"?)
Immediately after the embassy bombings in Kenya Clinton issued a Presidential directive authorizing the assasination of OBL.
Clinton appointed Richard Clark as the 1st National Antiterrorism Coordinator.
Before Clinton left office he directed Clark to come up with a plan...That plan was presented to Condi and GWB and it included....
1. Attack and break up Al Quaida cells
2. Attack financial support freeze assets.
3. Assist other Govt's having Al Quaida trouble (Yemen, Phillipines and Uzbekistan)
4. Scale up covert action in Afghanistan to eliminate training camps and get to Bin Laden
5. Support the Northern Alliance and palce special forces on the ground in Afghanistan.
(exactly what Bush decided to do..... too late)
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Chit Clinton did all that.:aok
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We have been fightin terrorist since the early seventies.
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Originally posted by MrLars
Ask yourselves truthfully....what would YOU think if this happened durring Clintons watch...would you be as 'forgiving'?
Nope as Clinton was too busy collecting $$ from the Chinese for secrets which have allowed them to place a man in space while at the same time trying to chase down fat interns for knob jobs...he couldn't be bothered by something as silly as National Security.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Before Clinton left office he directed Clark to come up with a plan...That plan was presented to Condi and GWB and it included....
1. Attack and break up Al Quaida cells
2. Attack financial support freeze assets.
3. Assist other Govt's having Al Quaida trouble (Yemen, Phillipines and Uzbekistan)
4. Scale up covert action in Afghanistan to eliminate training camps and get to Bin Laden
5. Support the Northern Alliance and palce special forces on the ground in Afghanistan.
(exactly what Bush decided to do..... too late)
.
LOL
left the problem for the next guy you mean? did he draw up these plans in between his last minute pardons?
slick didnt have the balls to do anything at anytime his entire 8 years in the oral office which would have adversly affected his poll numbers. if he had the economy GW fell into, his impeachment would have been for sure, but he'd lost in '96 first.
greed was clintons friend, his greed and the american ppl's...
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Clinton tripled the counterterrorism budget for the FBI and doubled counterterrorism funding overall.
[/b]
And what did he do with the CIA budget? And what did he do with the military? Besides allowing gays in the army I mean?
Both very successful crime bills included anti-terror provisions.
[/b]
Something 9-11 proved.
Immediately after the embassy bombings in Kenya Clinton issued a Presidential directive authorizing the assasination of OBL.
And not only that...dont forget the brave and mighty cruise missile attacks on Sudan and empty tent-camps in Afghanistan.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Immediately after the embassy bombings in Kenya Clinton issued a Presidential directive authorizing the assasination of OBL.
Clinton appointed Richard Clark as the 1st National Antiterrorism Coordinator.
Before Clinton left office he directed Clark to come up with a plan...That plan was presented to Condi and GWB and it included....
1. Attack and break up Al Quaida cells
2. Attack financial support freeze assets.
3. Assist other Govt's having Al Quaida trouble (Yemen, Phillipines and Uzbekistan)
4. Scale up covert action in Afghanistan to eliminate training camps and get to Bin Laden
5. Support the Northern Alliance and palce special forces on the ground in Afghanistan.
.
Prove these, please
sources??
thanks in advance
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Originally posted by MrLars
Ask yourselves truthfully....what would YOU think if this happened durring Clintons watch...would you be as 'forgiving'? Or would you be screaming for a special prosecuter?
Uhh, it DID happen during the Clinton watch, the first WTC bombing :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Thrawn
That's right, as was on Truman's plaque, "The buck stops with the guy that was on watch before me.".
So right you are, and W has taken the bull by the horns and is working on stopping the buck.
W. has never blamed any other administration, we here on the great board of wisdom and life, have.
I wonder if OBL counted on the reactions to 9/11 from this admin.
I wonder what would have been the reaction if 9/11/01 was four years earlier.
Given what we have done about terrorism in the past it seem we were asking to be hit and had our collective heads in the sand for the past 30 years
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
give a source or stfu. stop / even if the source is easily discredited.
First your anger will get the better of you, you should calm down. Sources? Read a newspaper. Look it up. Why do you always try to clam that everything is discredited when you disagree with it?
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"Given what we have done about terrorism in the past it seem we were asking to be hit and had our collective heads in the sand for the past 30 years"
Ya the export surplus was bound to cause some problems down the line, but who would of thought.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Yeah I'm sure Condi was aware of every last document created by the FBI in the last 20 years. Talk about spin Mrlars, sweat jeasious.
And what will you say when the hearings show, if infact they do, that Condi had the intel and was briefed on the possibility of using aircraft as bombs?
Would you write it off her statement about not being able to forsee terrorists using a/c as bombs as a lie or pure incompetence?
I have no doubt that these hearings will shed some negitive light on how Clinton could have done better to warn GWB in his exit interview...the thought that GWB would just shine on the info because it didn't fit his administrations primary goal of getting back into Iraq is all too plauseable to us who have decided to question rather than march lockstep.
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they probably have "intel" on the possibility of terrorist using gasoline tractor trailers full of fuel as weapons.
what do you suggest they do?
Will it be the fault of Bush if such an attack occurs?
get real.
hindsight slams are easy to pull off but don't carry much weight for those of us who have at least half a brain not burnt
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Uhh, it DID happen during the Clinton watch, the first WTC bombing :rolleyes:
Go look at the date... Clinton was in office for 38 days. Yet Bush I got a free pass and continues to get one from you guys.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Go look at the date... Clinton was in office for 38 days. Yet Bush I got a free pass and continues to get one from you guys.
Do you honestly believe that Bush could have prevented 9/11? Answer honestly. I want to know who the lunatics are and who are not. Then I can update my ignore list.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Go look at the date... Clinton was in office for 38 days. Yet Bush I got a free pass and continues to get one from you guys.
I don't blame Clinton for that one. It's what he didn't do for the next 8 years that I blame hime for.
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Not sure Rip. I know he was given a blueprint for success upon entering offfice, and that he ignored it. Clinton didn't "SIT ON" the plan, he had it developed after the Cole attack. (Oct. 2000)
So do you honestly think GWB did anything constructive regarding terrorism in his 1st 8 months?
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Originally posted by Hortlund
[B
And what did he do with the CIA budget? And what did he do with the military? Besides allowing gays in the army I mean?
[/B]
Well it was the Clinton Military that kicked bellybutton in Afghanistan and Iraq. You don't honestly think the troops and doctrine for those successes were developed by Bush and his team? That would be laughable.
Do I have to dig up the quote by Cheney stating that the military any administration has at its service is the result of his predecesor?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well it was the Clinton Military that kicked bellybutton in Afghanistan and Iraq. You don't honestly think the troops and doctrine for those successes were developed by Bush and his team? That would be laughable.
Do I have to dig up the quote by Cheney stating that the military any administration has at its service is the result of his predecesor?
BS. Clinton did nothing to improve the military he inherited. Quite the contrary, he gutted it. Not saying it wasn't due some pruning but Clinton never showed anything but contempt for the US Armed Forces.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Not sure Rip. I know he was given a blueprint for success upon entering offfice, and that he ignored it. Clinton didn't "SIT ON" the plan, he had it developed after the Cole attack. (Oct. 2000)
So do you honestly think GWB did anything constructive regarding terrorism in his 1st 8 months?
Does any incoming administration that sits on the other side of the political fence actually listen to the blueprints of the prior administrations? (With the exception of Reagan taking Carters advice on building up the military) no, I think not.
I don't think Bush did anything constructive regarding terrorism prior to 9/11 nor did any other administration during their respective reigns, IMO.(Aspirin factories don't count)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well it was the Clinton Military that kicked bellybutton in Afghanistan and Iraq. You don't honestly think the troops and doctrine for those successes were developed by Bush and his team? That would be laughable.
Do I have to dig up the quote by Cheney stating that the military any administration has at its service is the result of his predecesor?
Midnight, military spending decreased in Clintons reign. If you want to give credit for a kick-*** military in Afghanistan, Iraq, you'll have to swallow your pride and point to Reagan or Bush Sr.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Does any incoming administration that sits on the other side of the political fence actually listen to the blueprints of the prior administrations? (With the exception of Reagan taking Carters advice on building up the military) no, I think not.
I don't think Bush did anything constructive regarding terrorism prior to 9/11 nor did any other administration during their respective reigns, IMO.(Aspirin factories don't count)
You don't think? Even though I cited a long list for you of Clinton's accomplishments and actions re. Terrorism. sigh....
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MT
It was the U.S. Military that kicked bellybutton in those places. Clinton, nor Bush before him had much to do with how well they did.
Clinton made huge cuts in the military, that we had enough to do the job is nice, but the tactics and their training has nothing to do with the sitting pres, other then how he decided to fund them. Its not like clinton was making tactics up or anything.
If you want to give a pres cudos for making the US Military what it is today, that would be Reagan since he upped the funding and got some important weapons systems pushed through.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Like...?
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You don't think? Even though I cited a long list for you of Clinton's accomplishments and actions re. Terrorism. sigh....
You failed to provide sources for any of those accomplishments.
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Well, look up one post for a little help with that.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well, look up one post for a little help with that.
Ah, this one?
. . people maintain Clinton should have adapted Bush's policy promising that regimes that harbor terrorism will be treated as severely as terrorists themselves, and threatening to evict the Taliban from power in Afghanistan unless leaders meet his demands to produce bin Laden and associates. But Clinton aides said such a policy — potentially involving a full-scale war in central Asia — was not plausible before politics the world over became transformed by one of history's most lethal acts of terrorism.
Actually, after reading that page, it looks like Clinton PROVOKED Bin Laden into attacking the U.S. Now who is to blame again?
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So clinton was a savior against terrorism and bush is the devil.
right?
you guys really do suck.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
MT
It was the U.S. Military that kicked bellybutton in those places. Clinton, nor Bush before him had much to do with how well they did.
Clinton made huge cuts in the military, that we had enough to do the job is nice, but the tactics and their training has nothing to do with the sitting pres, other then how he decided to fund them. Its not like clinton was making tactics up or anything.
If you want to give a pres cudos for making the US Military what it is today, that would be Reagan since he upped the funding and got some important weapons systems pushed through.
The POM (Program Objective Memoranda) is the acquisition plan for the next six years and there is a new POM every two years. Like it or not, Clinton had a hand in the successes enjoyed during the Bush presidency. Certainly, there are some key weapons systems that came about during the Reagan administration, but you have to acknowledge that major advancements in informations systems and improvements to weapons themselves resulted from lessons learned during Gulf War I.
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If Bubba or Dubya had taken any real action (like Dubya is doing now) against terrorism before 9/11, there's no way the public would have supported it. Just look at the whining about Afghanistan and the Patriot Act, even AFTER 9/11.
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Sandy
Good point, and I am not trying to say Clinton did nothing, just that he was not solely responisble and that he did cut the military back alot. Frankly in many cases rightly so, there was no cold war when he was pres. He did also save the V-22 program for the Marines I think.
I am not one of the Clinton is satan guys, I think he was an ok pres, my biggest problem was he lied when he was asked about the BJ, if he had said none of your buisnes I would have been fine with it. If he has said yeah, so what I would have had no problem with it. He took the weasel route. That said it had a pretty limited impact on his presidency other then the smear his own legacy.
I have many reservations about Bush. I do not think he is satan like some jokers here, but he is not a Reagan, even with Reagans issues like Iran contra.
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Good point funked lol.
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It's much easier to sit back and figure out where things went wrong than it is to sit down and figure out what is going to happen in the future.
Tom Clancy ended a book with a 747 crashing into the whitehouse and killing congress and the president. This is not an unknown concept. I think where everyone from the airline industry to the FBI to the FAA slipped was in their public broadcasting of hi-jacking policies, lax security and underestimating the patience/planning capabilities of the terrorists. 9-11 was a wakeup call to all of America in that regards. It was also proof of the ineffectiveness policies from top to bottom leading up to that point.
MiniD
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Yeah, but Tom Clancy is a hack. :)
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Yeah, but Tom Clancy is a hack. :)
He's a political hack who's latest books have been unbearable... but he's never really portrayed terrorists as imbiciles. Though, the terrorists never seem to realize that if they just got rid of Jack Ryan and Mr. Clark then nobody would be able to stop them.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
He's a political hack who's latest books have been unbearable... but he's never really portrayed terrorists as imbiciles. Though, the terrorists never seem to realize that if they just got rid of Jack Ryan and Mr. Clark then nobody would be able to stop them.
MiniD
True enough. :)
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Originally posted by AKIron
BS. Clinton did nothing to improve the military he inherited. Quite the contrary, he gutted it. Not saying it wasn't due some pruning but Clinton never showed anything but contempt for the US Armed Forces.
Man are you ignorant.
It was Clinton who authorized the support of the special ops and predator programs which were the key to the success in Afghanistan.
Re-organization of the military and battlefield management was completely re-done during Clinton's administration.
The credit really goes to the Pentagon planners.. but as CiC Clinton authorized it.
Clinton also authorized the assasination of Ben Laden, when Bush came into office he was warned about the threat from Bin Laden, yet he ignored the threat and rescended the order to assassinate him.
The truth about Bush is coming out... and it's being reported by the govenment!
Not the LIBERALS... and all you deluded Bush****eheads just get in lock step with the brown shirts and defend him. :rofl
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And thus was invoked Godwin's Law.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well it was the Clinton Military that kicked bellybutton in Afghanistan and Iraq. You don't honestly think the troops and doctrine for those successes were developed by Bush and his team? That would be laughable.
Do I have to dig up the quote by Cheney stating that the military any administration has at its service is the result of his predecesor?
So then you admit that it was Clintons CIA that failed to prevent 9-11?
And while the size and equipment of the armed forces might be decided by the previous administration, the moral and motivation of the troops sure as hell aint. A Clintonian army would do anything in its power to stay out of combat (witness Kosovo and Somalia).
Of cource the sucesses in Afghanistan and Iraq is thanks to the armed forces, led by Bush and his team. If you are trying to grab the credit for that to Clinton you are truly weird.
Clinton downsized the army and the CIA, and he treated the army and the CIA just as most liberals do. But because he didnt disband the entire army you feel he should be given some sort of credit for Afghanistan and Iraq? You are insane.
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what is godwins law?
Does it support my assertion that people with liberal tendancies are misguided and easily fooled?
and whenever you hear the great "brownshirt" invocation you can be assured that its a liberal having an argument with a brickwall, and losing.
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Yeager admits that his argument meets all the intellecual expectations to qualify it as a brick wall.... film at 11.
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Yeager
It is a theory that says same ******* will always ruin a BBS conversation with a Nazi reference.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Clinton downsized the army and the CIA, and he treated the army and the CIA just as most liberals do. But because he didnt disband the entire army you feel he should be given some sort of credit for Afghanistan and Iraq? You are insane.
Well Stevie, you continually meet all my expectations and then some.. wtg.
Do ya think maybe we downsized the Armed Forces in the 90's because we didn't have 200 divisions of Russian tanks to worry about anymore? Are you gonna claim that FDR lost ground against the Indians because he failed to buy as many horses as his predesessor? Are you sane?
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no argument here mt.
I accept that peoples experiences in life are what motivates their political ideals. I just try to have fun with it all.
As for bush vrs clinton and what did and did not happen:
It usually boils down to what you perceive best supports
your political ideals, whether correct or not.
I know some real decent but misguided liberal socialists and I freely admit that even they, yes they -are people too.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Do you honestly believe that Bush could have prevented 9/11? Answer honestly. I want to know who the lunatics are and who are not. Then I can update my ignore list.
Rip, lets go one further.....
Would anyone (Democrat or Republican) have prevented those 9/11 attacks?
I'd say no. We Americans are into convenience. We would not stand for the "inconvenience" of what we have to go through now in order to fly on an airline pre 9/11. Any politician that would have proposed the present post 9/11 security issues would probably be voted out of office pre 9/11.
Post 9/11 it becomes the other's fault.
Bush nor Gore could have prevented the 9/11 attacks.
Get over it people.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
If Bubba or Dubya had taken any real action (like Dubya is doing now) against terrorism before 9/11, there's no way the public would have supported it. Just look at the whining about Afghanistan and the Patriot Act, even AFTER 9/11.
Just saw this after my post.
Yeah, what you said!
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SubaruS is probably right... just get tired of the constant Clinton bashing in regards to terrorism. It my be the one issue he least deserves to be slammed.
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Just some interesting reading... Shun if you must, disqualify if you have to... An interesting read nun the less... Having L or R tendencies, one ought to still find some interesting questions unanswered....
no scrabble? (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/11_20_01_911murder.html)
Additional reading (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/11_20_01_911murderUpdate.html)
Part 2 (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/11_20_01_911murder_sect2.html)
Part 3 (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/01_31_02_911murder_sect3.html)
An interesting timeline of events (http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/timelinebefore911.html)
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Originally posted by kappa
Just some interesting reading...
Yeah...real interesting...with gems like:
There is only one explanation for the Secret Service allowing President Bush to take the deadly risk of going to the Booker School on the morning of September 11th.
George Walker Bush knew the plans for 9-11. And because he knew those plans, he knew that nobody was going to attack the Booker School.
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>Yeah, but Tom Clancy is a hack
I still like the books Reading a Clancy right now BTW.
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Only thing about Clancy though is that his books are fiction. I always have to remind myself while Im reading.
:rofl
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Ignorance can be fixed, stupidity is forever.
Originally posted by DmdNexus
Man are you ignorant.
It was Clinton who authorized the support of the special ops and predator programs which were the key to the success in Afghanistan.
Re-organization of the military and battlefield management was completely re-done during Clinton's administration.
The credit really goes to the Pentagon planners.. but as CiC Clinton authorized it.
Clinton also authorized the assasination of Ben Laden, when Bush came into office he was warned about the threat from Bin Laden, yet he ignored the threat and rescended the order to assassinate him.
The truth about Bush is coming out... and it's being reported by the govenment!
Not the LIBERALS... and all you deluded Bush****eheads just get in lock step with the brown shirts and defend him. :rofl
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" Thursday, Dec. 18, 2003 10:55 p.m. EST
9/11 Chair: There's No Evidence to Blame Clinton or Bush Teams
WASHINGTON – The chairman of a federal commission looking into the Sept. 11 attacks said Thursday that mistakes over many years left the United States vulnerable to such an attack, but he resisted pinning blame on either of the last two presidential teams.
"We have no evidence that anybody high in the Clinton administration or the Bush administration did anything wrong," chairman Thomas Kean said in an interview with ABC's "Nightline" taped for airing Thursday night. "
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Originally posted by Otto
" Thursday, Dec. 18, 2003 10:55 p.m. EST
9/11 Chair: There's No Evidence to Blame Clinton or Bush Teams
WASHINGTON – The chairman of a federal commission looking into the Sept. 11 attacks said Thursday that mistakes over many years left the United States vulnerable to such an attack, but he resisted pinning blame on either of the last two presidential teams.
"We have no evidence that anybody high in the Clinton administration or the Bush administration did anything wrong," chairman Thomas Kean said in an interview with ABC's "Nightline" taped for airing Thursday night. "
Well dangit, who CAN we blame!???.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well dangit, who CAN we blame!???.
OBL?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Are you gonna claim that FDR lost ground against the Indians because he failed to buy as many horses as his predesessor? Are you sane?
FDR presided over Indian Wars?