Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RearGunner on May 21, 2001, 06:37:00 PM
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At the risk of being unpopular, I will post what I think of this game from a newbie online flight simmer, but a veteran offline flight simmer point of view.
AH Bad Points:
1) Flight models feel all the same. I tested a few planes for just this purpose and I can honestly say they all felt the same, only the paint jobs changed (for me). I usually spot different handling characteristics straight away, even the minutest ones on all the flight sims I've tried, but I was chuffed on AH to find the difference between a 109 and a P-51.
2) Planes are bouncy. I started another thread on this and after a bit of research I have come to the conclusion that planes such as the Spitfire do not handle like a boat in real life. Yes, I am speaking as a non-pilot, but how many of you can honestly say you have ever flown a Spitfire or 109? Exactly, not many, so my opinion is as good as anyone of yours flying your Cessna 182 or commercial airliner. I stick by my belief that the aircraft bobbing simulated in this game is less realistic than the smooth plane modelling in CFS.
3) Connected with point 2 is the fact that the only way you can fly the planes in AH is to treat them as if they were a Boeing 747. When in a dog fight I start blacking out when not even half joystick pressure is applied, and if I do something about it, like apply opposite rudder (this helps make a tighter turn with less Gs), I soon enter into a spin (not uncontrollable, I can control most spins) which I find VERY frustrating. I've seen WW2 footage where planes of this era could do high g turns without much trouble. Also some stall angles are ridiculous. Yes, I understand stall has nothing to do with the speed of the plane, rather the speed air is flowing over the wing surface, but some of the stalls defy belief. If it was a Cessna 172 I would believe it, but not these planes.
4) I can land anywhere without much trouble. The ground surface has no effect on the planes undercarriage. The same is with takeoff. Try overshooting the runway in a bomber (easy to do). Try doing that on CFS. To give you an example I was playing CFS earlier, only 1 wheel came down on my undercarriage as my plane was a bit shot up. I landed leaning on my one good wheel (yes, I am that good), as soon as I slowed down, the plane flopped down onto the other side. If that isn't realism, I dont know what is. Oh, and I play with the full realism setting on always.
Those are my major gripes.
Having summed it all up, even though I've got 1 week and a few days left of my free period left, I won't be logging on anymore because I find it too frustrating. Especially with the black out. I would have preferred the whole screen to go black. C'mon, how many people fly with only a small black hole on their screen? Sorry, not realistic, and I'm all for realism. PLus that stall alarm noise *shudders*. Before anyone accuses me of quitting because it's too difficult, not true. I got my first kill within 10 minutes of playing. I just don't find it fun or realistic (as I imagine those planes would be). I think I'll just wait for WW2 online (hoping the flight modelling will be better). And with my 30 bucks a month, I'll just spend it on a game and add to my flight sim collection.
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As I understand, the tunnel black out is more realistic. Of course, I can't speak of seeing it in real life. Most G I've ever done in an aircraft was about 4-5... just enough to feel the blood rushing down my carotid arteries...
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cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs (http://www.screaminbluemessiahs.org)
The SBM's are hiring! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum11/HTML/000263.html)
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hmm, i have no problems at all in AH. there about 500 guys here that would disagree with you. AH isnt CFS for a reason, we get 200 guys in an arena and playablity has a part in it.
How many guys from around the world do you get in CFS?
Nose bounce, i dont get any, FMs.. are done by real data thats availible. Landing with one gear blown of, done that here a number of times, plane spins to a stop some times and i exit safly or if to much brake on the only gear down whe rolls over and i die..
Seems to me you not doing something right, or you havent spent the time to setup you Jstick, deadband ,dampening and so on..
On the other hand, ive been flying online sims since 1989 in AW-DOS till now, maybe your spoiled on one Box game??
Dog out...........
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>>>1) Flight models feel all the same.
You haven't developed enough feel to tell the difference between planes. If all planes were the same you wouldn't see so many Niki's and Spits, and so few P-38s and 190A8's. Try flying a mission in a 190A8, then try the Zeke.
>>>2) Planes are bouncy.
This must be on your end, most players don't have this problem.
>>>3)..I start blacking out when not even half joystick pressure is applied,..
Half joystick pressure is translated into using half your strength to haul back on the stick. In real life that could well black you out in a fighter. In AH full blackout occurs at 6 G's or so, not a lot by today's standards but HTC has done research and found that WWII pilots did not routinely pull over 6 G's, and they didn't use G-suits or spend a lot of time working on improving their G tolerance as todays pilots do.
>>>...and if I do something about it, like apply opposite rudder (this helps make a tighter turn with less Gs), I soon enter into a spin ...
??
>>>4) I can land anywhere without much trouble.
Terrain is simplified. No big deal, but it would be nice to have un-landable terrain.
We all started in box sims, but a sim like AH teaches you that WWII aircombat was not just Quake with wings.
ra
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Troll, Troll, Troll your boat, gently down the stream. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I wish I was expert enought to judge a good flight sim after only a few days.
HeHe!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I guess I need to go back to MSCFS to find out what it's supposed to be like!!
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Swager
On Leave 3./JG2~Richthofen~[/i]
"Enjoy yourselves now... for I'll be back"
3./JG2 (http://members.home.net/winyah999/3jg2.htm)
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I'm sorry to see you, or anyone else, go.
Point 1) I don't know what to say. They feel VERY different to me. The P-51D only turns slightly better, but it rolls staggeringly better. The P-51D also maintains responsivness at higher speed. The 109 can barely pull up at 450mph whereas the P-51 can do so easily.
Point 2) Hmmm, I don't have this problem. The aircraft only bounce when I try to level FAST after a hard manuever.
Point 3) The blackout range in AH is 4-5 Gs, IIRC, which is something you'll never get in a Cessna 172 or 747. Stall modeling seems pretty good to me. The stall "buzzer" noise can simply be replaced with a buffeting sound if you prefer. You are probably incurring accelerated stalls, which doesn't really have to do with the speed of the air over the wing. An accelerated stall occurs when the wing's angle of attack gets to far off of the direction the aircraft is moving. Basically, if you turn too tight the airflow over 1 or both wings will be disrupted and the wing(s) will lose lift and stall.
Point 4) I agree.
It sounds to me like you are being a bit heavy handed at the controls. This would incur all of the behavior that you described. Its a new sim to you and it takes awhile to adjust.
BTW, HiTech has flown a P-51D.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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It's not a troll, it's just my opinion. People who say that just can't face facts that there are people who have different views and opinions. "OH look! That guy thinks different. Bah..must be a troll". Grow up!
I agree on the point that the tunnel vision in pulling G's may be more realistic, but I don't think it realistic people flying constantly with tunnel vision. In real life, I bet you'd black out sooner or later. I can fly for half an hour like that.
As for "how many guys can you get in CFS" has nothing to do with it. I was talking about the flight modelling. Why not make it more like CFS? If you don't get any nose bounce, you must be one of the few. In my earlier post about this about a dozen guys acknowledged this fact of nose bounce. Anyway, not once did I ever say "nose bounce" in my last post. Seeing you use this word, I think you have experienced it before and know what I am talking about. About the one wheel gear landing, I never doubted that cannot be done in this game. I was just acknowledging how realistic CFS is considering a lot of people say it is "too easy and simplified". As for not doing something right, as I said, as soon as I logged on I took off perfectly, first engagement, shot down plane. I don't think it's that somehow. I have tweaked my joystick for almost an hour so not that either. I've been flying flight sims since 1987. My first was Flight Simulator for the Atari ST. My first copter simulator was in 1985; Apache from Digital Integration for the Sinclair Spectrum when I was 12 years old. So don't give me that please.
As I said before, I have played many flight sims, choppers, planes anything. I feel planes instantly and every sim I've played also. If hardly anybody flies a 190 it is testament to this game not being realistic as the 190 was considered one of the best planes in WW2. The Spity which you say many fly was inferior to the 190 except for the Mk IX which was quickly put together to counter this threat. Sorry, but you've just shot down your own argument there.
Using rudder when turning causes less slip in normal banking therefore you get a more efficient turn. I have a technique I use for turning when banked 90 degrees which involves opposite rudder, which allows for a more efficient turn and keeps the nose in a high attitude. Don't ask me where I read it, cause I don't remember, though I know it works. And as for Quake with wings, thats the impression AH gives me. No strategy, its all a gank fest. Rarely 1 on 1, usually 4 on 1 or worse. No opportunity to employ high yo-yo, immelmans, lead turn.
To conclude, I think guys who play this game can't cut the mustard in games like CFS on full realism. How many of you can tell me you have completed the game with full rank and medals? Ha, thought so.
[This message has been edited by RearGunner (edited 05-21-2001).]
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Originally posted by RearGunner:
It's not a troll....I think guys who play this game can't cut the mustard in games like CFS on full realism. How many of you can tell me you have completed the game with full rank and medals? Ha, thought so.
[This message has been edited by RearGunner (edited 05-21-2001).]
Hmmmm, sure sounding like one after that.
One could turn the question around and ask "How many have the skill and determination to stick around and really learn this game before signing off in a huff because it doesn't immediately sync with their expert knowledge?
Don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out.
Cheers
Vosper
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For 30 bucks a month, no thanks.
10 yes, 20 maybe 30 not like this.
If it was modelled more like CFS I would. 30 is a lot in my opinion, and to pay that amount I would have to love it straight away. I know if I'll like something about 5 minutes of trying it.
I am still convinced CFS is the more realistic of the two. I drive a real car and I play the occasional car racing game. Now if someone gave me two racing games and asked me which was the more realistic based on my driving experience (11 years), I would be lying if I said which one was the more realistic. The same goes for pilots on this message board. A Cessna 172 or an Airbus 320 flown gently does not compare to these planes. I can only go on my instincts.
Hmm...yeah ok it is a troll. Must be, because it differs from your opinion. How childish.
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OH right, Vosper. It's a troll only if I answer back in the same way others speak to me. Now I get it.
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Ok, first of all if you really want to feel the planes, go into setup and disable Combat Trim. That will give you a much better feel for the planes if that's what you are looking for. You can still trim the planes manually, or use the auto-trim modes to help.
1) Disabling combat trim may cure some of this. I can sure tell the difference between a spit 5 and a Jug. Between a 109f and a P51. The flight control and handling differences are just obvious to me. Try a high speed dive in a 109f. Now try it in a P51. The difference is obvious. Try looping a Zeke of the runway. Now try it with a 190. When your done crashing the 190, you'll see the difference. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The flight characteristics are not perfect, but the differences are accurate from my view. The planes perform how they should in comparison to one another. A Spit V will out-turn a Spit IX. A Zeke will out-turn anything. A Pony will out-run most anything. A Jug really shines at high-altitude. All the differences in flight modelling are there.
2) Nose bounce is generally indicative of some sort of control setup problem. This can almost always be cured by scaling your stick inputs and increasing the damping slider for the axis you are having trouble with. Rudder can be a bit of a tough one to smooth out if you have a twisty stick like I do, but pitch and roll should be smooth if you have everything set right.
3) How much joystick pressure you apply is completely irrelevent. This is all about G forces. The harder you turn and the faster you are flying when you do it, the more G's you are going to pull. When you pull too many, you begin to grey out, you get tunnel vision. Ah models this pretty well, your vision narrows until it is completely black. Pull too hard for too long and you'll black out completely. This is quite realistic.
There are a couple of planes that seem to have some odd stall behaviour, but for the most part the planes behave as they should. The F6F5 has a really nasty accelerated stall behaviour that seems overly harsh, and the P-38 has some strangeness, but it's fairly minor. The others are quite well done, and seem to portray their real traits quite well. Accelerated stalls are part of aviation, you can stall at very high speeds if you pull enough G's at high angles of attack. Oh, and BTW, it's a HECK of a lot easier to stall a WWII fighter that weighs a LOT than it is to stall a Cessna 172. Heck most WWII birds will fall out of the sky at the Cessna's cruising speed.
4) Yep, the ground doesn't tear you up. It's supposed to be grassland I guess. However, you can get one landing gear shot off in AH and still have the same tricky landing results you mention. That works just fine in AH.
Um, I'm not sure it's realism you are looking for. The blackouts in particular are pretty realistic, that's what happens when you start to go... your vision narrows. It's more realistic than having your screen suddenly go black.
BTW, I hate the default stall horn too. I use an old one that's more of a buzzer. If you email me at sconrad@hfx.eastlink.ca I'll send it to you if you like.
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://lephturn.webhop.net) for AH articles and training info!
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At the risk of being unpopular...
You meant to say at the purpose of being unpopular.
You use the comments "Childish" and "Grow up!" and spend more time complaining about the price, even mentioning you would play for $10 or $20 a month for it anyway.
I didn't like AH at first either after only flying Hornet Korea, CFS, and Falcon 4.0. It was unfamilair and I had no idea of what was going on. I see where your coming from having been there.
You'll hang around and figure it out, and be glad you did. Comments like "all the flight models feel the same", and "I think guys who play this game can't cut the mustard in games like CFS on full realism" will seem as silly to you as they do to most the guys reading this. Or you wont.
HAve fun arguing anyways.
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I don't know flight model from fashion model, I just have fun when I fly. <S>
blutic
"leap and the net will appear"
(http://www.ropescourse.org/bluticcard.jpg)
[This message has been edited by blutic (edited 05-21-2001).]
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You are correct RG!!
Your observations were right on, I stand corrected. In the presence of a true flight simulator expert, I am no match! I am not worthy!
Growing up is sooo painful!!
Thank you for enlightening me on the subject!
Good luck in your travels! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 05-21-2001).]
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Creamo, I think money has a lot to do with it! Unless you're born rich, or are called Bill Gates, I think we all look at where we spend it. And if you are one of the two, don't be such a snob as you'll find the large majority of people are not rich. I was in two minds to leave or not. After the first hour of playing this game I instantly loved it. I thought, sure, the flight model is not what I expected, but I'll get used to it. Then, playing a bit and not being able to try any manouvers because as soon as I out turn one guy, I turn right into the path of the other and another also. So to compensate I try more audacious manouvers and what happens? Spin after spin, so now I don't get ganked, I just crash. I find it frustrating. So as I said, the price is the ultimate limitting factor here, as paying that much is excessive (in my opinion) for something you are not sure you will like.
Swager, get off your high horse. Maybe if you try 1v1 over a LAN you'd find out just how good you really are (not).
Sure I'm unpopular Creamo. Every one who is bold enough to "not go with the flow" and speak their mind on boards like these is considered a pariah. That's why I said it. What else is new?
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hehe.
I bought CFS2 after a year of AH.
too easy on HARD. its on my closet shelved right now.
nice graphics by the way.
I think CFS sucks, sorry. but I am not at the CFS boards talking about it.
Its not your opinion that makes you a troll. its how you express it. and if you think otherwise, you are childish and inmature.
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RearGunner, I urge you to stick with it.
It's normal for there to be a "learning curve" when switching games.
And it's normal for "veterans" of the new game to razz the new guys when they squawk about it.
Please hang in there. If you see me in the arena, just say the word and we can do some training.
Just don't listen to all of these guys, especially Animal, whose brain resembles swiss cheese after years of exposure to MSG-laden Hotpockets and the formaldehyde solution they call "beer" on his little island.
PS My response to your bad points.
1. Dunno.
2. The "bounce" is the short period pitch oscillation, and it's part of the flight dynamics of any airplane.
3. I agree that the blackout levels are a bit low. However the stall speeds are accurate, and are based on real life flight tests and engineering analysis.
4. Agree that the terrain is easy to land on. However the scenario you describe with only one wheel coming down, then landing and flopping over, is something I have done dozens and dozens of times in Aces High.
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"I bought CFS2 after a year of AH.
too easy on HARD. its on my closet shelved right now."
you forgot..."It's so easy I never completed it." How many times do I hear that? "I dumped it after 2 weeks." "I got frustrated because my wingman kept crashing into me". "The enemy is too easy and never gets on my six".
Sorry to say it's all rubbish. CFS2 is about 1000 times harder to land, take off etc.. than AH. Also, the enemy AI is excellent. They throw the works at you and they DO get on your six when fighting more then one, they work in teams.
I expressed my opinion nicely, I only got nasty when people started flaming. What do you take me for, a saint?
Anyway, why the hell am I arguing with somone who names himself "Animal"?? Look at yourself, my friend.
Anyway, it's way too late. I'm outtahere. Night and enjoy your game.
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Then, playing a bit and not being able to try any manouvers because as soon as I out turn one guy, I turn right into the path of the other and another also. So to compensate I try more audacious manouvers and what happens? Spin after spin, so now I don't get ganked, I just crash. I find it frustrating.
Yeh , me too , must be a "bug"....HTC please fix this "bug" i'm tired of getting shot down
AHAHAHAHA
BTW i find the "nose bobbing' is in direct proportion to the adrenaline when i'm on a bogies 6
44MAG
yes i've flown real planes
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Sheesh reargunner ..
So you're good at flight sims? -grin-
I agree that the nose bounce is a distraction and it took me a bit to ease up on stick input and adjust for it.
Nothing like flyin a Mustang at 300mph where it feels like it is on rails. (certified in aerobatics in the P-51D.. done all I do in the arena except auger and actually open fire on someone, including land the beast)
Interesting how you beleive CFS is 'realistic'
.. yanno I have had U-control models lose an engine (actually seperate from the airframe and fly off) ..and they just don't glide well at all compared to CFS's bogus modeling of it.
Somethin about Center of Gravity bein way to far to the rear when the engine seperates from the cowling forward on a 'real' flying aircraft.
What you say about stalls is interestin.. in the aerodynamics I studied at Embry Riddle (4.0 GPA, thank ewe) they taught that a wing stall is generated strictly by Angle of Attack .. speed has nothing to do with it.
I think it's really cool that you flew through CFS to get medals .. I'll bet ya got a lot of points to!
That's a phase most dweebs go through the first year or two of air combat sims.
Most grow out of it.
The fight's the thing.
Landing I can do offline.
.. and lest ye get your skirt all in a bunch ..I am still a dweeb.
I like it that way.
I know a bit more than yer average dweeb tho.
I have flown aerobatics in a stock motored PT-17 Stearman, along with yer basic C-172, a real fun day in an Aeronca Champ.. and a Mustang.
I look forward to flyin a few more as I go.
I fly for fun.. same as I do in AH.
(well .. except I *land* in meatspace ..it's quite a bit more fun than doing it in a Sim.. not to mention *required*)
-GE "You shot him in the back!"
"His back was *to* me"
"Oh"
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but I was chuffed on AH to find the difference between a 109 and a P-51.
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PUHHHHH-LEAZE!
Fella, you need to go back to basic (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Every point in your list of observables
demonstrates a real lack of depth of knowledge relating to the game. Spend of couple of weeks (12) AT LEAST before even attempting to flesh out you opinion here and expect anyone to take you seriously.
Y
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Using rudder when turning causes less slip in normal banking therefore you get a more efficient turn. I have a technique I use for turning when banked 90 degrees which involves opposite rudder, which allows for a more efficient turn and keeps the nose in a high attitude. Don't ask me where I read it, cause I don't remember, though I know it works.
I've been flying sims for 15 years, civilian aircraft for 11 years, and USAF fighter aircraft for 6 years, and I think I can say for a fact that this technique does not work in real aircraft or in a game that properly models real aircraft performance. There are only a few situations where an uncoordinated turn will result in a tighter or faster turn, but those are in general very low speed and high angle of attack situations, and the resulting turn is very similiar to a partial spin entry or hammerhead stall turn. Some custom civilian acrobatic aircraft that can produce an enormous amount of fuselage lift in a turn may also benefit from this, but the drag increase will still hurt performance beyond any possible benefits.
Adding right rudder in a left turn, or left rudder in a right turn (beyond what is necessary to keep the ball centered) will just increase your drag and bleed off energy. If you enter a stall in that condition, you WILL spin or otherwise depart controlled flight unless you're in an F-16 or other aircraft with computer enhanced stability. Try it in a real life cessna 152. If you live (hint: do this only from a relatively high altitude), let me know what happened. You'll either stall the low wing when you try to roll out, or you'll spin as you pull the controls back to try to tighten the turn. Either way, you better have a few thousand feet of altitude available to recover.
That said, every single PC based sim/game I've ever flown has some flight model quirks that can be exploited. Aces High is no exception, although HTC has done a good job of keeping most of the common errors out of the game. There are still ways to "trick" the flight model into letting you fly the plane outside normal flight parameters, but for the most part AH follow real life flight characteristics pretty closely. Unless you're a dedicated "stupid plane tricks" junkie like myself, you probably won't ever notice or be affected by any of these little quirks in Aces High. And no, I won't share them 'cause they wouldn't help you anyway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ok, I'll share one - In some planes, you can force the plane into "spin mode", and then get the plane back into controlled flight parameters with the plane still stuck in this spin mode. You'll have plenty of airspeed with no rotation, but the elevator is still programmed to full up by the spin modelling code. The plane can do some odd things in this mode, and you can tell you're there by looking at the elevator in the rear view. If the elevator doesn't respond to your stick movements, you're still in spin mode regardless of your attitude, altitude, airspeed, bank angle, or rate of rotation. It's not a very useful thing in a dogfight, but it's definately a quirk in the flight model. That's all I have to say about that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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Reargunner at the risk of being unpopular with you... I suggest you really clock up some real time on AH before you pass sentence.
If you can't tell the difference between FMs on each plane it really underlines the lack of experience you have.
As for CFS2 realism, yeah I've got it. Its got pretty graphics and crap FM. The AI is NOT that good.
Then theres this:
"Using rudder when turning causes less slip in normal banking therefore you get a more efficient turn. I have a technique I use for turning when banked 90 degrees which involves opposite rudder, which allows for a more efficient turn and keeps the nose in a high attitude."
You gotta be kidding me? This will get you killed in seconds in AH. Great way to blow E.
Sorry... if I didn't know better I'd say you were one of those CFS2 people that have to share the braincell they collectively own (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Don't whine about being flamed... you've made some bold BS statements - so what do you expect back?
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Originally posted by Karnak:
The stall "buzzer" noise can simply be replaced with a buffeting sound if you prefer.
How is this done? and where is the DL?
[This message has been edited by Nefarious (edited 05-21-2001).]
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OK OK GUYS I'VE SOLVED IT...
MG bought a PC finally!
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Didn't have time to read all of the posts, but A Cessna 172 when loaded within the utility category is rated to 4.4G's positive. Just mentioned this because someone said that you'll never see a 172 at 4.4 g's. Im sure lots of them have been close to 7. That means that it will break at 6.6G's or above, since aircraft are required by the FAA to be designed to at least 50% over their rated load limit.
As for the black outs not being accurate, I've pulled, for short duration, 6 g's in a super decathalon during an IAC aerobatic competition. When you're pumped up on adrenaline during a 10 minute competition, this isn't much, and i easily took it, but sometimes i'd be messing around pulling 2 or 3 g's without paying attention, and i'd find myself greying out. G tolerance for a pilot is as much about state of mind and technique as it is phisiology. IM sure that the g resistance exercises help a lot, but in my short aerobatic stint, i never had time to learn them except for the positive G straining technique, and i never did any weight lifting or anything like that.
CJ
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Originally posted by Nefarious:
How is this done? and where is the DL?
[This message has been edited by Nefarious (edited 05-21-2001).]
You can find it here : http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens/stall.zip (http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens/stall.zip)
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Originally posted by RearGunner:
Also, the enemy AI is excellent. They throw the works at you and they DO get on your six when fighting more then one, they work in teams.
Hmmm...sounds kinda like what you were squeakin' about a little further up the page. Does CFS give you a forum to go squeak to the AI that they are gangbanging you? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by sling322 (edited 05-22-2001).]
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OK, I totally disagreed with all the AH gameplay issues, but I admit I went and loaded CFS2 once again. Might as well get more than 2 hours out of the $50 box.
Well, I had forgot what cool realistic panels looked like, and yes, super sweet graphics. If only they didnt look like a flat 2D square panel.
The planes all flew very well, and the stalls seemed really good, if not a bit vicious. Damage model was great, and was it fun to light up Zero's and watch the graphical fireworks.
The real test was to fight waves of enemy AI, because the expert on this game who has a zillion medals and completed it says they are excellent.
You tell me how I can shoot down 12 nme planes down in a row with a Wildcat, with no loses or pings. They SUCK.
What they do really nice is perfectly executed CFM, kinda like having a flight instructor show you how they work.
All in all, a load of fun, but apples and oranges to AH. The 200 buckheads I get to fight with online win hands down.
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RearGunner,
Speaking from the experience of real flying and sim flying too:
Go get a few flying hours in a Cessna 152 Aerobat. I think it more closely represents ww2 warbirds then any other trainer out there. Its heavier then your normal 152, and not unspinnable like the 172's and the other high tailed ones the British use in their flying school. Having it certified for aerobatics also helps, I dare anyone try this in a stock 152 or 172 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ask the Instructor to do some of the maneuvers you mentioned, especially the one with the opposite rudder during a 90 degree bank- You'll quickly see how you depart from controlled flight.
Next, when he gives you the stick, give it a good strong yank, half way into your gut like you would think a ww2 pilot was able to do - If your doing about 90 knots and you're strong enough, I can assure you another departure from controlled flight. You just might be able to force the airplane into an accelerated stall and maybe even a spin, otherwise would just stall it and feel 2 or 3 G's.
Another thing you can do is give the stick just another quick yank (not so hard this time-but much quicker) and immediately let go e voila... the nose will bounce around one or 2 times until its setteles back, its called positive dynamic stability.
Sorry to make it sound so condensending mate, but you really do need some real time in the air to appreciate where AH have it right, and just how much CFS is lacking in realism.
You also need to deactivate that auto take off and combat trim in AH, those nullify the visual input you get from the forces acting on the aircraft.
Another thing you might want to do is check out the outstanding flight and physics modelling acclaimed sim called "X-Plane" (at full realism settings offcourse). You'll find the AH flight model identical to it.
Don't care if you stay or go, will be your own miss if you settle with a flight model dumbed down to please the masses, not the hardcore flight simmer.
L`il Snorkey
56th FG
PPL, IFR, MULTI, Turbo
Heaviest flown: Fairchild Sa-226 Metroliner
I used to love flying that damn Aerobat, was just so damn expensive (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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1) Cant agree, even very similar planes like 190A8 and 190A5 have noticeable and critical performance differences. I think that comming from the CFS all the planes will feel similar to you because none of them is able to do what you are used to do (with the exception of the nikki). As a rule, here you can do all you are used to do in CFS, but starting at higher speeds.
2) Had this problem all the time with my old TM F16 FLCS, switched to a Saitek X36 and bounces gone.
3) Like Boeing 747 compared to CFS, yep. CFS planes are, IMO, UFOS. Last time I tryed I was able to do an instantaneous flat 60 degree turn using only rudder in 109 (what a miracle).
4) Agree with you, our terrains are, usually, very poor and monotone, we can land on every flat or almost flat part of the map.
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LOL CFS2 realistic...advanced IA LOL!
funny stuff going on here ROFL... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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OK I'm going to give it until the end of my free trial period to decide. I would like to see how the planes handle on the outside. Anyone know how to use the video? That's another gripe about this game. There's already a steep learning curve and then you have to figure out how things work. Could of supplied a frigging printable manual or something.
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/helphom.html#gs (http://www.hitechcreations.com/helphom.html#gs)
Give it a fair minded trial, you'll see that as far as qualify goes, AH is where the goods are.
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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wtg reargunner, good choice.
But be forewarned, when it hits you and you'll suddenly get it, you'll never go back to boxed combat sims again, and wonder what you've been doing up to now...heheheh
There is a light at the end of the tunnel, don't worry (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Snorkey
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Ok, So earlier (about half an hour ago) I go to log on, decide to start in a fairly quiet field away from the action so I can record some manouvers and study them. I think it helps more if you look from the outside, sometimes. I choose a Spitfire Mk5 as I have been flying this bird for a while. I press record and away I go. Fly north a bit, spot a bogey 12'o clock high. Not really up for a fight, but I keep an eye on it just in case. Anyway, it disappears, then reappears on my 3'oclock, still far but by this time I've climbed up to his altitude. Still a bogey though, might be friendly. Icon comes up, it's red. Ok, I prepare and gain a bit more altitude. He heads towards me, I angle a bit left to avoid a head on (not my thing). He is diving for some strange reason as we pass each other, me slightly higher by about 200 feet. I quickly drop throttle to zero and initiate a high yo-yo. I land on his six about 1.2k out. He has high E, but mine is picking up. I pull off a few shots to show him I'm here. He start a break right, and I know I've lost him and have to go back around. This point he gives me the advantage as he dives way to low. Now I just dive on him from near vertical and get on his six. He breaks again I follow this time and shoot off a few high defelection shots. A few hit his engine and he starts smoking. I lose him, and decide to go around again. I make a mistake here and lose a lot of E so I stall a bit and lose the initiative. Now he managed to get about 1.3k but I can see he's struggling a bit. Unexpectedly he goes for the head on, gets rounds off misses. Again I give him the intiative and he goes round again, head on, gets 1 ping on me. This point I thought it was over. He struggles home. I follow but I was catching him slowly. We arrive in sight of his arifield and his friends are swarming all over their airfield up ahead. He's struggling badly now, so I decide to give it one more shot and run away. Engage WEP and now I am closing rapidly. 200 yards from his six, I slow right down, and start firing. I hit his wing and a few other bits. Still he's flying! I run at this point because his friends have now noticed me. I head for home. Then about 5 minutes later it says I was given the victory. He must have crashed on landing. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Anyway, that's how I best remember it, might be a few things which I missed ot added by mistake my adrenaline is still pumping. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) If I could get the film thing to work I could see it again properly. I checked up on this guy I shot down, his name is Heme BTW, if you want to see. He was in a Niki and has been playing for about 3 months and has over a hundred kills. So please a bit of recognition for my part as remember I'm only a CFS veteran. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by RearGunner:
I checked up on this guy I shot down, his name is Heme BTW, if you want to see. He was in a Niki and has been playing for about 3 months and has over a hundred kills. So please a bit of recognition for my part as remember I'm only a CFS veteran. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yeah man.. you shot down some dude with a kill/death of .2179 and a kill/sortie of .2059. Kill/time online of .0004.
WarDog, for example, has a kill/death of 1.1991, kill/sortie of 1.0492, kill/time of .0016.
Heme is ranked 1127 in fighter category, WarDog is ranked 92nd.
I wouldn't say the guy you went up against is the average AH player...
Below average more like.
-SW
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Newbie or vet, a fight that gets the adrenaline pumping is what the game is about. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Yeah.. but I don't like cocky newbies.
So please a bit of recognition for my part as remember I'm only a CFS veteran.
<snicker>
-SW
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Well, considering I have been playing for 4 days I think that's quite good. Also, isn't the Spity Mk5 inferior to the Niki? I thought I did good as I always had the initiative also and he never got on my 6 once, except for a very brief moment when he was already shot up.
Can anyone tell me how to get the film working? Everytime I press on film, then choose the film number and press play, it locks up my system. I can't find anything in Help, I've printed all of it out, but nothign there.
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There is no such thing as an inferior plane... only inferior pilots.
SpitV will turn inside a N1K2 any day of the week. It will dive with a N1K2 any time you push the nose over. It's just slower thats it.
-SW
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Ah yeah Seawulfe. You have a point. A good pilot in a Sopwith Camel can beat a rookie in an F-18. Keep dreaming big boy.
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Considering you've been playing for 4 days any kill is good, <S>, however, I would leave out the CFS references (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I know it's hard to understand why at first but a few of the folks here are very proud of this game. Rightfully so I might add
As far as the film is concerned, do you have the map loaded that the film was recorded from?
[This message has been edited by AcId (edited 05-22-2001).]
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hehe lets all give reargunner a break!
you have done well to get a kill of a niki in a spitV as far as im concerned.Yes it may have been a lack of understanding of the nikis abilities on the enemy pilots part that helped but still wtg (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
reargunner i have to say at first i was annoyed by your comments on try CFS for a real mans game crap but hey its all part of the banter right?
Keep going with the spitV for a bit then switch to the spitIX and i think you WILL notice the difference even in these two similar planes.It takes time to get the feel for AH but once you get it you will be able to tell the huge differences in these aircraft, even between same types but differing models.
enjoy
p.s. try to join a squad too as 'REAL' wingmen far outdo any computer AI controlled ones (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).You are at the beginning of the steep learning hill and to be honest i envy you.Id love to relearn AH from scratch.Its been a pleasure for me over the last (almost) 2 years (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hazed
9./JG54
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Well, I don't know. I recorded it in the main arena, shouldn't I have that map on file already?
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Originally posted by RearGunner:
Ah yeah Seawulfe. You have a point. A good pilot in a Sopwith Camel can beat a rookie in an F-18. Keep dreaming big boy.
A 110MPH plane up against a 1000+ MPH jet. Missles don't lock on to wooden planes. And you ain't gonna get a guns solution at that speed difference. It'd be a draw, big boy.
-SW
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You should, but in offline your default is probably the 'ndisles' map. In the clipboard does it look like a bunch of islands? If so then I can see why it would crash, the main arena is the 'lake uterus' map (not sure of the real file name)
OK boys, can we let it go now? And try to get him to playback film?
[This message has been edited by AcId (edited 05-22-2001).]
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Originally posted by SeaWulfe:
Yeah.. but I don't like cocky newbies.
So please a bit of recognition for my part as remember I'm only a CFS veteran.
<snicker>
-SW
I'm a terrible, horrible newbie! That make you feel better SW? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I made so many dumb mistakes last night, that I wanted to smack myself. Only good thing I did was shoot down a B17 at high alt, get my radiator shot up, and glide down from 20K ft and actually landed on the runway. That ONE little sortie made up for all the ineptness I displayed prior in the evening.
Oh, guess how long it took my to get my first kill in AH? 1 minute after engaging my first enemy (I think it was 5 minutes after upping for the first time in the MA.) Was flying a DHog and got on a LA7's 6. Followed him best I could, and managed to get lead in him as we were diving. I think I was shot down 10 times after that before getting my next kill. First kill wasn't anything but beginner's luck for me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Thanks Hazed. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) That's what I am planning on doing. I'll get a feel for a plane before I move on.
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what don't u get about playing films RG?
took me longer than that to get my 1st kill in AH <S> and I had played FA for a while. CFS and CFS2 are good box sims if you like eye candy but don't compare to the FM in AH.
lose the attitude and you'll get further on this board and in this game
cu
Eagler
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Originally posted by RearGunner:
might be a few things which I missed ot added by mistake my adrenaline is still pumping. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Oh dear, any more of this and Aces High will have you by the short and curlies and never let you go =)
If I could get the film thing to work I could see it again properly
Use ALT-R to turn recording on or off. When recording you'll see a little red R in the top left.
Afterwards, to view the film quit Aces HIgh and restart it (it film viewer is still a bit buggy and is most stable when you go striaght into it) and just select the 'Film' button rather than the 'online' one. It should be fairly obvious from there =)
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Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>
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Actually Nifty, newbies are cool... as long as they don't start here their first day stating they are the god of realism and flight sims because they have completed *ahem* an offline campaign. I've done that so many times... eh whatever.
Anyways, if a newbie says to me "Man I suck.. I just don't understand this" or just says "Man how do you do this?" I'll gladly take him to the TA and teach him some ACM moves and how to properly track a bogey with the snap view system.
I just don't like newbies that think they are "the best"... no two flight games are alike in respects to the FM.. you always have room to learn. Anyone will tell you that... well except this feller.
-SW
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Yeah Acid, it's a bunch of islands. Do I have to change the files?
SeaWulfe. lol. a draw, eh? No guns on the F18? Also, missiles don't lock on elements. Wood, metal, glass makes no difference. It usually locks on to a heat source. i.e the engine.
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"A 110MPH plane up against a 1000+ MPH jet. Missles don't lock on to wooden planes. And you ain't gonna get a guns solution at that speed difference. It'd be a draw, big boy."
Maybe you'll get a missle lock, but you have any idea how many Gs it needs to pull to follow a camel through a turn? It just isn't going to work, and you'll need AIM54cs just to get a lock onto him. The closure speeds are entirely too fast.
Same with the guns, you are going way too fast. You slow down, you enter the Camel's territory until you fire your afterburners and get the hell outta dodge. You ain't turning with no Camel.
There was a game years back by Microprose.. "Fighter Duel" where you COULD fly jets against Camels.
It was proven there, the real world isn't going to be much different.
-SW
[This message has been edited by SeaWulfe (edited 05-22-2001).]
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Why should I need you to teach me flight manouvers when I probably know as much as you? What's so hard about it? I've had a lot of practice. I never said I was a god at flight sims, but I'm not exactly a newbie.
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RearGunner,
You have a fast way on seeing how differently 2 planes can behaviour.
Take your Spitfire V. Make it 250 kts. Bank hard 90 degrees left. Pull. Hard, nearing blackout. 180 degrees U-turn. Write down end speed.
Now take FW 190 A8. Make it 250 kts. Bank hard 90 degrees left....hey, I said 90, not 450 degrees (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif). ....Pull. Hard. 180 degrees U-turn. If you are still on contlolled flying, write down end speed.
Quite a difference, I bet.
One of the best advices given here is hazed's. Find a wingman or, even better, find a squad. Will make learning not so hard, and definitely more fun.
Cheers,
Pepe.
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HAHA Seawulfe. I just noticed you are nuts. Go to the Pentagon and tell em to replace the F18's with Sopwiths. LOL. God that's funny. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Thanks Pepe, I'll try it. Hey I just noticed I have about 10 other films recorded and I never noticed. I wonder what's on em. hehe. Gonna try and get the damn thing to work.
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Originally posted by RearGunner:
HAHA Seawulfe. I just noticed you are nuts. Go to the Pentagon and tell em to replace the F18's with Sopwiths. LOL. God that's funny. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
You were the one telling me a new pilot in a F16 or F18 could beat an expert in his Camel. I'm telling you it would be a draw. You are an idiot if you think otherwise.
The F18 does a multiple of things fast, and carries a lot of ordinance. But against an extremely slow moving target it does no good.. especially one that can turn 360degrees in about 100ft.
Apparently I know a lot more than you about ACM if I think that the F18 vs Camel would be a draw... because it would be. Don't blame me you can't understand it. Maybe give you a few years to think about it. By your logic, a Me262 would have a field day with piston engined fighters...... well we know how that one turned out.
-SW
[This message has been edited by SeaWulfe (edited 05-22-2001).]
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hehe, Camels vs F/A 18s??? hmm, after you set that up, please set up a matchup of Pedro Martinez (or Randy Johnson) against Babe Ruth. that's something I'd REALLY like to see!
As for all your comments RG, nothing in a box game, and I mean NOTHING will ever beat flying with a squad in an online game. Not to me, and not to just about anyone else on these boards. You could give me the perfect FM and AI in a boxed offline game (if it ever could exist) and I'd still rather play right here in AH with a squad. I had flown with individual people in AH and it was fun, but it didn't even come close to how much fun flying with the Mongrels has been the past few days. Whether it be on Darling's wing in a P51 using Roger Wilco or MataHari's wing in Spits just using text to communicate, it's absolutely the most fun I've had playing any flight sim.
I have two favorite moments so far flying AH. The first was the P51 with Darling. I had a Niki on my 6, and Darling said he was coming over RW. I saw him in my view, and said I was gonna bring the Niki back the other way. He rogered my move, I called out my turn, and it pulled the niki into a perfect firing solution for Darling. Working as a team with another human and being able to verbally say things instead of typing them out (or hitting a macro key to tell an AI wingie what to do) is just well, a light year's difference in fun!
The next moment was the first time I got to fly with MataHari in spits. He was a bit away from the field engaged in a furball. He called out that he was in trouble, and I let him now I was on the way. I got there and he was engaged with a spit and a F6 (I think). I dropped on the Spit's 6 (was the more immediate threat to Mata) and put some lead in him, making him break. I stayed with Mata, and someone else who showed up got the spit, I only got an assist. Mata needed to RTB, so I stayed with him instead of going back for the Hellkitty or moving to the bigger furball just a bit away.
There is no possible way I could ever get that feeling of helping someone from a boxed offline game. I've played other boxed sims and made an effort to keep wingman alive, and it never came close to the feeling of helping Mata out (or Blutic during the Check 6 this past week.) Hearing "Thx Nifty!" over the squad channel or the country/room channel is the best thing for me in AH.
RG, give this game a chance and fly with a squad. You'll never want to go back to boxed sims if you find it fun, trust me. If you can't afford the $30, I can understand that, but if you can, you'll find it's worth it for the comraderie and joy flying with other people gives you. (Not to mention flying AGAINST other humans!!!)
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Yeah ok, SeaWulfe, you are right. Anyway, the Pentagon is developing a stealth version of the Sopwith Camel, so you must be right. Apparantly it will replace the F-117, or so I heard.
It's not the 30 bucks Nifty, of course I can afford it, otherwise I wouldn't even be on the net, right? It's just thta because I can afford only a limited amount of money for leisure, I like to spend wisely.
Finally got the film to work and studied the footage. Didn't give Heme enough credit, he fought quite well. Best move of the whole fight was when I executed a perfect Lag Turn. That clinched it for me. I noticed he was talking to me, but I never knew at the time. How do you get up names on enemy planes?
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Originally posted by RearGunner:
Yeah ok, SeaWulfe, you are right. Anyway, the Pentagon is developing a stealth version of the Sopwith Camel, so you must be right. Apparantly it will replace the F-117, or so I heard.
Your ignorance is only furthered here.... the Pentagon only lays out requests for top secret planes, they don't make or develop anything.
-SW
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Yes but it is generaly said that the Pentagon "is developing such and such" even though they don't physically develop anything themselves they still give the order out to contractors. Such as a pesron hires someone to kill someone else. So that person is not responsible for murder? He is. Who ever gives the order is still thought of as responsible for the action. Now if you can't understand that, I'd take some of those insults (idiot, ignorant etc...) and direct them at your stupid self.
haha...Sopwith Camel...hehe
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A village somewhere out there is missing their idiot... you best run back to them RearGunner.
-SW
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Originally posted by Vulcan:
OK OK GUYS I'VE SOLVED IT...
MG bought a PC finally!
ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!
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SeaWulfe, are you like 5 years old? I hope so for your sake. You want to start an insult match. Wow, haven't had one of those since I was 12. God, you are beyond hope. I'll leave the playground all to you, I'm outta here.
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pot calling the kettle black.. Or can you not read your own posts?
-SW
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Wulfie.. never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
Might as well give it up before you start to look like one yourself.
AKDejaVu
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Cant afford a buck a day??? Give up your tea, coffee, or suds and ya got it covered, otherwise theres no need to take up BBS time, move along now nothing to see here folks, move along now , thats it!
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Knock off the personal attacks gents.
HiTech