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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on December 20, 2003, 10:50:26 AM

Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Ripsnort on December 20, 2003, 10:50:26 AM
Remember in the 60's and 70's when we'd try to get as much rubber as possible around the smallest rim possible? Of course this had purpose, T-R-A-C-T-I-O-N without too much tire spin...Today, the kids do it the other way around...

Check out 24" rims on a caprice..:rolleyes:  What purpose does this serve besides "LOOK AT ME, I'M AN IDIOT!"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2446937041&category=6162#ebayphotohosting
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: crowMAW on December 20, 2003, 10:53:30 AM
Now don't be hate'n...them rims is TIGHT! :aok

:rofl
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: rabbidrabbit on December 20, 2003, 11:25:40 AM
wonder if he will actually sell it....
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: midnight Target on December 20, 2003, 11:29:28 AM
Well at least they're spinners.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: mold on December 20, 2003, 11:33:29 AM
Theoretically a lower profile serves the purpose of crisper handling.  Definitely noticeable if you autocross.  But of course the purpose on any riceburner is purely to generate looks.  Apparently it works. ;)
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: FUNKED1 on December 20, 2003, 11:35:59 AM
Drippy, you actually get less wheelspin with a larger overall diameter.  Force = Torque / Radius
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on December 20, 2003, 11:41:52 AM
Funked, I think Ripped means lopping those huge bellybutton tires on small rims - like the old real wheel dragsters.

The uber-thin tires on the huge rims is more cosmetic than anything, especially in the inner circle of retard bred ricers. The tires are good for handling, however, you need to be a competent driver to be able to handle a car in turns at speed anyway.

We all know ricers suck the bellybutton when it comes down to driving though.
-SW
Title: Re: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: SaburoS on December 20, 2003, 12:55:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Remember in the 60's and 70's when we'd try to get as much rubber as possible around the smallest rim possible? Of course this had purpose, T-R-A-C-T-I-O-N without too much tire spin...Today, the kids do it the other way around...

Check out 24" rims on a caprice..:rolleyes:  What purpose does this serve besides "LOOK AT ME, I'M AN IDIOT!"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2446937041&category=6162#ebayphotohosting


LOL, that looks like a copy of a Hot wheels type toy.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: wklink on December 20, 2003, 01:03:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mold
Theoretically a lower profile serves the purpose of crisper handling.  Definitely noticeable if you autocross.  But of course the purpose on any riceburner is purely to generate looks.  Apparently it works. ;)


True, but these rims lift the car at least 3 inches higher off the ground than it would normally sit.  :lol

22 grand for a 95 Caprice huh?  I think sheprock here probably should have looked for a better candidate for all of his money.  He shoveled it into a late model chevrolet family car.  My wife's grandparents drive such a car.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: FUNKED1 on December 20, 2003, 01:08:56 PM
Rip is just jealous of the dubs.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: mold on December 20, 2003, 01:28:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by wklink
True, but these rims lift the car at least 3 inches higher off the ground than it would normally sit.


Yeah that's true.  Whatver "handling advantages" he gets (in a Caprice LOL) are offset by the higher CG. But it was not for the engineering anyway, so it's not the fool's errand it appears to be.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: crowMAW on December 20, 2003, 04:38:36 PM
That plus those things must weigh a ton...added unsprung wieght is a baaaad thing.

Mold...good to see another autoxer...what do you run?
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Dago on December 20, 2003, 04:46:08 PM
Here is my favorite line in the description:

Quote
It is very rare to find a Caprice like this.


To which I reply "Thank God".  Ugly must have limits.


dago
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Saurdaukar on December 20, 2003, 04:49:12 PM
Anything larger that 18 inches is generally a disadvantage at the track.

You dont see many LeMans prototypes running with 24 inch spinners.

All show, no go.  Thats fine - plenty of 427 Vettes at the shows I go to with neon lights in their engine bay - but problems occur when local Civic owners think that 19's make the car 'handle mad phat' and the rear mounted grapefruit thrower doubles as an afterbuner ala Faster and Furiouser.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Maniac on December 20, 2003, 04:49:13 PM
He should be hanged.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: mold on December 21, 2003, 07:40:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crowMAW
Mold...good to see another autoxer...what do you run?


83 Esprit Turbo, and an 86 MR2.  Haven't autoxed in a few years tho. :)  You?
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: mold on December 21, 2003, 07:42:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
but problems occur when local Civic owners think that 19's make the car 'handle mad phat' and the rear mounted grapefruit thrower doubles as an afterbuner ala Faster and Furiouser.


LOL :D  Nah, I don't think anyone is seriously under the impression that this stuff makes their cars technically better...or maybe I just have too much faith in the human race LOL.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Arlo on December 21, 2003, 07:48:37 PM
Ittybitty tires wear out faster, take less rubber to make and are higher priced. Someone's smart ... but it ain't the consumer. ;)
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: crowMAW on December 21, 2003, 08:31:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mold
83 Esprit Turbo, and an 86 MR2.  Haven't autoxed in a few years tho. :)  You?

S2000...but possibly the Elise when it comes to the US in the spring if I can get r-compound tires that will fit the thing up front.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Delirium on December 21, 2003, 09:15:33 PM
Forget the rims for a second, check out the interior cloth on the roof and the doors, looks like wallpaper from the 40s.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: SirLoin on December 21, 2003, 09:24:07 PM
The bigger the whell (the smaller the sidewall) the better cornering traction you will have...But that's it...You lose ride comfort,are more likely to aquaplane over puddles and traction in snow is severely reduced.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Roscoroo on December 21, 2003, 10:37:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
The bigger the whell (the smaller the sidewall) the better cornering traction you will have...But that's it...You lose ride comfort,are more likely to aquaplane over puddles and traction in snow is severely reduced.


actually the shorter the sidewall the more rigid the tire is and the less rubber it can roll onto during a hard G corner ... its gonna have to have a softer compound to maintain grip (which means its gonna wear faster then hell)   those 1-2 inch sidewalls arnt giving you an advantage in cornering at all ... and i havent even got into air press vs temp vs contact area vs weight vs spring rates .. along with caster/camber/toe adjustments
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Saurdaukar on December 21, 2003, 11:22:24 PM
Crow, mold - any pics of your AX cars?

You should head to a local road course - whoooole different ballgame.  ;)
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: crowMAW on December 22, 2003, 01:16:54 AM
I've got a few...but the forum doesn't allow upload posting anymore! :(

These are the only pics of my car at an event that is on the web:

At the Florida State Championships (I came in 3rd out of 16 in the class...beaten by two Nationals trophy winners.  The magnetics were borrowed...mine had blown off the car because the course was so fast...3rd gear at more than one point on the course)

(http://gulfcoastautocrossers.com/pict2422.jpg)

These are my racing buds.  Mine is the one on the far left.  The yellow car came in 3rd at Nationals this past year (field of 40+ cars in the class).  The red one holds the fastest S2000 lap at Sebring.

(http://www.dixiescca.com/images03/pacepics/P1010011.jpg)
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: SirLoin on December 22, 2003, 05:12:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Roscoroo
actually the shorter the sidewall the more rigid the tire is and the less rubber it can roll onto during a hard G corner ... its gonna have to have a softer compound to maintain grip (which means its gonna wear faster then hell)   those 1-2 inch sidewalls arnt giving you an advantage in cornering at all ... and i havent even got into air press vs temp vs contact area vs weight vs spring rates .. along with caster/camber/toe adjustments


Why don't you pick up the latest issue of Consumer Reports?...Their extensive testing with many different tire sizes and brands clearly showed better cornering traction with plus sized tires and marginally better dry braking.But the tradeoffs far outweighed the benifits.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Ripsnort on December 22, 2003, 07:49:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by crowMAW
snip


Very cool Crow! :aok
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: mold on December 22, 2003, 09:24:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by crowMAW
S2000...but possibly the Elise when it comes to the US in the spring if I can get r-compound tires that will fit the thing up front.


That sport elise looks like it kicks ass...245 HP on 1500 lbs or something?  LOL if you can live with the reliability. :)

Nice pics, BTW.   Think I have a pic of the Lotus somewhere, not much of a looker tho.  

Roscoroo--  there's a balance needed, but too big a profile equals more roll, sloppy steering, inner contact patch liftoff, and more affected by weight transfer...
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Saurdaukar on December 22, 2003, 09:52:50 AM
Nice pics.

The reliability of the new Lotus shouldnt be a problem - arent they sticking a Mazda engine in it?

I think the damn thing lapped within a second or two of the 996TT on more than a few tracks in Europe.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: slimm50 on December 22, 2003, 10:13:38 AM
Heheheh....first time I ever saw an off-road caprice. Tires need to be knobby, though.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: nuchpatrick on December 22, 2003, 11:40:55 AM
Yo Crow.. I din't know you knew Ian (and his Yellow S2K).  I can't believe he's selling his S2K.  Oh well lol...  :(
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: nuchpatrick on December 22, 2003, 11:43:53 AM
Saurd, the new Lotus will be powered by the Toyota 1.8L thats in the current Cellica.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: crowMAW on December 22, 2003, 11:59:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Nice pics.

The reliability of the new Lotus shouldnt be a problem - arent they sticking a Mazda engine in it?

I think the damn thing lapped within a second or two of the 996TT on more than a few tracks in Europe.


Thanks for the pic complements all...

The Federalized Elise is coming with a Toyota motor.  The VVT motor out of the Celica GTS, re-tuned by Lotus to put out ~190hp and mated to a 6spd tranny.  The car will weigh 1900lb.  It should pull mid 13sec 1/4 and 5 sec flat 0-60.

The only problem for racing the Elise in the states is getting r-compound tires to fit up front.  The smallest r-compounds available here are 205s and the front wheel is a 16x5.5...very narrow rim for the diameter, plus there may be clearance issues with that fat of a tire trying to fit in the wheel well without rubbing.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: crowMAW on December 22, 2003, 12:11:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by nuchpatrick
Yo Crow.. I din't know you knew Ian (and his Yellow S2K).  I can't believe he's selling his S2K.  Oh well lol...  :(

Hey Nuch...

Yeah, the first pick of my car at the State Championships is actually Ian driving and me in the passenger seat.  He is one hell of a talented driver.  He reacts before I even feel the car begin to oversteer.

The S2k was a stretch for his college student budget, and I think he was sure that the '04 S2k was going to be better in B-stock (the SEB published that the '04 S2k will be in AS though).

Anyway...Ian may not be 100% this year.  He just had surgery on a knee that he injured playing soccer.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: nuchpatrick on December 22, 2003, 12:24:09 PM
Yeah Ian is a wild man..I love the way he drives that S2K.

I know about his knee problems.. reason I drive an automatic Miata :D   Bout the funest thing autocrossing this thing is you never have to shift! Plop it in 1st, and your good up to 48mph!

Mid-year I'll go to street mod and play with Bob P. and his uber Miata.  I'm going to a VF, Vortech Supercharger mid-year after I'm settled into my new home. However, I'm going to run with Martin Sports Car Club this year..  SCCA lost Palm Bay to hold events not sure what their going to do.:rolleyes:
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: crowMAW on December 22, 2003, 12:37:34 PM
I heard about the Palm Bay site...damn stupid reason to pull the site.  The Dixie Region folks lost their "good" site a couple of years ago because of folks who just don't understand autoxing too.

I guess CFR will have to depend on G'ville.

I loved my Miata when I had one.  My younger brother is getting into autox and we are looking for him a 10AE.  Gotta have the ABS...I learned the hard way when I flatspotted $500 worth of brand new Hoosiers on my '92. :rolleyes:
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Roscoroo on December 22, 2003, 02:00:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Yes, I'm sure these guys use big rims because it makes their cars look cooler while making cornering performance worse. Sure.

(http://www.btccpages.com/gallery/aj/2003/030907r1718_don/pack1.jpg)


those are the "little boys that are still on the porch "  ..
I had a shifter cart that was faster then those guys..


But its still racing and I'm shure there all having fun ...
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: nuchpatrick on December 22, 2003, 02:31:31 PM
Crow, did you make it to G'ville?  I didn't go because of tire issues.  At this point I was not going to toast a set of S03's that cost 150 bucks. Hoosers are nice but pricey. I'll stick with the 60 dollar Falkens :D


As for ABS, watch those 10AE's some didn't come with ABS.  You should find a him a 99 Sport!

You might want to check the dealer they had 2002 Club Sport's at a discount rate I think 19K but just a bare bone model and no A/C.
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Saurdaukar on December 22, 2003, 02:42:23 PM
Doh.. Toyota engine - must have had a Miata flashback.  (did I mention that driving the Miata is the most fun Ive ever had in a car?)  :D

Seen pictures of the new Elise, but obviously havnt driven it - for the price, according to the numbers, its pretty hard to beat - kinda like the Z06 of its type.

Since it is not built in Germany, however, Ill will have to pass on principle.  :D
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: nuchpatrick on December 22, 2003, 02:51:19 PM
A lot of the Miata guys are bailing for this new Lotus before it's even on the market.  I feel sorry for them when they realize that their going to be a pain in the butt to autocross till they learn how to drive that Mid-Engine devil. Can't lift in a corner like a Miata can..

Saurd for got to tell you I got to drive a P-Car 996 :)  I like my Miata better as I found 996(911) are too grumpy for my taste I lifted due to understeer and went for a short ride lol
Title: Oh, the horror! (Car related)
Post by: Saurdaukar on December 22, 2003, 03:33:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by nuchpatrick

Saurd for got to tell you I got to drive a P-Car 996 :)  I like my Miata better as I found 996(911) are too grumpy for my taste I lifted due to understeer and went for a short ride lol


LOL - yeah, thats how it works.  :D

First day of PCA Drivers Ed:  "Dont lift, dont lift, dont lift.  Ok.. now everyone repeat that ten times."

Ive been fortunate enough to avoid 'the ride' thus far - but nearly at the expense of a brown stain in my drawers - rather counter intuitive to plant the throttle when youre running into trouble.  ;)

That said - the Miata is impossible to beat for fun factor - an awesome little car - although a little loose - needs cage welded in to stiffin it up.