Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Maniac on December 20, 2003, 03:15:59 PM
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Capt. Funkypants Foreign Policy 101
1. Bring all the troops home. All of them.
2. End all foreign aid. Israel, etc, **** 'em.
3. Peace dividend from military spending reduction should go directly to tax rate reduction.
4. Let the price of petroleum rise or fall as it may.
5. Market will find cost-effective alternative/renewable energy solutions.
Says the POLISH GUY!!!! :lol
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Very interesting. But hey did you see how the Iraqi people are being told Saddam was captured? This is about as good as that Russian site that reported the war was a disaster for the Americans right up to the day when they took Bagdad.
(Hey call me a post hijacker but I cannot create a new thread.)
Iraqi version of how Saddam was captured (http://www.albasrah.net/maqalat/english/khasbaghdad_e_16122003.htm)
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man....thats just too funny.....and scary at the same time.
I don't wanna call em stupid.....but that article just confirms it.
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LOL
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http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=28088
ISOLATIONIST
Pronunciation: `Isu'leyshunist
Matching Terms: isolationism, isolationistic
Definition: [n] an advocate of isolationism in international affairs
[adj] of or relating to isolationism
Synonyms: isolationistic
See Also: advocate, advocator, exponent, proponent
The only problem is...it didn't work before....
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Ya i know, dont have my AGW password at home :D
And dont tell me i cant cross-post, youre the wrong guy rip :p
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Social Change in the United States
During World War II
As the possibility of a second World War arose people began to form opinions on the United States’ role in Europe. The general population disagreed on whether or not to get involved in the conflict with Germany. Some people believed in interventionism, the theory that the United States should do everything it could to support Britain without declaring war on Germany. Along with William Allen White they formed the Committee to Defend America by Aiding the Allies. Others supported the idea of isolationism, which said that the United States should defend itself first. The supporters of isolationism formed the Committee to Defend America First which was supported mainly by pacifists and socialists and well as democrats and republicans. The majority of Americans were against the involvement of the United States. Congress acted on this general opinion by enacting neutrality laws and appropriating little money for the army and navy. Because of its poor funding, in 1939, the United States Army was small and ranked only 39th in the world. Much of its artillery was still drawn by horses (Harris, 17).
After Japan’s surprise attack on Pearl Harbor the opinion of the American people drastically changed. Isolationism was eliminated virtually overnight.
You wouldn't think of the Captain Funky as one to run and hide under the tablecloth after 9/11
Most Americans thought they were fighting for President Roosevelt’s four freedoms:
We look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.
The first is freedom of speech and expression...everywhere in the world.
The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way...everywhere in the world.
The third is freedom from want...everywhere in the world.
The fourth is freedom from fear...everywhere in the world.
--President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Message to Congress, January 6,1941 (National Archives and Records Administration)
Isolationst Sentiment
Many Americans during the 1920s came to feel that America's entry into the War was a mistake. After the rise of the NAZIs in the 1930s and Germany's rearmament, it became increasingly clear that Europe was moving toward another war. There was considerable talk of war profiteering. Many were detrmined that America should avoid war at any cost. This feeling was intensified with the Depression of the 1930s and the country's focus was on domestic issues. The anti-war sentiment in America and the memories of the men lost convinced many Americans that America must not get involved in any future European war. These sentiments combined with long-standing American isolationism resulted in the passage of a sries of Neutrality Acts. These Acts prohibited for United States companies to trade with belligerents. As a result, while the Fascist powers aided Franco's Falange in Spain, the Spanis Republic could not even buy arms in America. The show of German arms in Spain, especially Luftwaffe bombings of Spanish citties terrified many. With the growing military might of a rearmed Germany, war talk in Europe began. This fueled rge desire of many Americans to remain neutral. Isolationist leaders opposed any involvement in a European war and clashed with President Roosevelt who increasingly saw the need to confront the NAZIs and Japanese militarists. Some like Charles Lindburg, thought that America could not win a war against Germany's vaunted Luftwaffe. Many not only opposed American envolvement, but even military preparadness and military expenditures were strongly oppossed in the Congress.
Struggle Against Isolationism
Aginst this backdrop, President Roosevelt who did see the dangers from the NAZIs and Japanese militaists, with great skill and political courage managed to not only support Britain in its hour of maximum peril, but with considerable political skill managed to push through Congress measures that would lay the ground work for turning American into the Arsenal of Democracy, producing a tidal wave of equipment and supplies not only for the American military, but for our Allies as well in quantities that no one especially the AXIS believed possible.
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You wouldn't think of the Captain Funky as one to run and hide under the tablecloth after 9/11
Say what?
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Originally posted by SLO
man....thats just too funny.....and scary at the same time.
I don't wanna call em stupid.....but that article just confirms it.
I agree that it is scary. Thing is the arab world who wasn't there to see what really happened would simply rather believe another arab / muslim than the western press. The more outrageous the better. It doesn't have to make sense or be logical, just be as rabid as it can and they will still swallow it. After all as far as their side is concerned this is a war over religion as far as I can see.
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Originally posted by Maniac
Say what?
When attacked in Pearl Harbor, we didn't withdrawl to our shores, we expanded into the fight of WW2. Personally, I believe there is so much political change going on in the world today, similiar to that of the early 30's, that our presence needs to be out there to help shape "not-so-friendly" continents and prevent terrorism to breed like it did in the 80's and 90's without being disturbed.
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we expanded into the fight of WW2
And im truly greatfull that you did... Otherwise i might not even have been here today...
My grandmother was thrown into a "work camp" after she worked as a cleaning lady in a German prison camp in Poland, she smuggled letters out from the prison for English pilots and got cought...
But compared to then i see the world as much more stable now... But then i again i wasnt born when WWII took place, perhaps they tought the world was all nice and dandy before Hitler came along...
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Rip that's great and all, but I don't want to pay for it. Government is taking a huge percentage of the fruits of my labor (paycheck) and redistributing it to military contractors and services rendered to other countries who don't pay a damn thing. Maybe you want to spend a significant portion of your working hours in slavery to this end, but I sure don't.
Per the Constitution the federal govt's job is:
"To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions"
I don't see anything there about being global rent-a-pigs.
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I don't see anything there about being global rent-a-pigs
Government is taking a huge percentage of the fruits of my labor (paycheck) and redistributing it to military contractors and services rendered to other countries who don't pay a damn thing
America will get more money out of Iraq then you lost in bombs etc...
Its the human lifes that you should be complaining about, not money...
Pitifull
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Well if one were concerned about human lives, one would realize that taking out Saddam will save a lot more lives in the long run than were lost in the very short war. Pitiful.
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Did i say that it was a bad thing that you took out Saddam? When and where?
The only thing i EVER have complained about is how the war was sold...
Now go and count your cents so you can make the rent :rolleyes:
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You're the one who said I should be complaining about human lives lost in Iraq... Lay off the drugs man.
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Rip that's great and all, but I don't want to pay for it. Government is taking a huge percentage of the fruits of my labor (paycheck) and redistributing it to military contractors and services rendered to other countries who don't pay a damn thing. Maybe you want to spend a significant portion of your working hours in slavery to this end, but I sure don't.
As a response to this... Nuff said...
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PS I'm not Polish. German/Irish/Redneck mix. :)
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That explains alot :D
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Maniac, I'm not following your line of reasoning at all. Either I am not reading correctly or we have a language barrier. In either case I have not had chicken wings in 24 hours, and must go in search of nutrition, see ya.
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NP
See ya. Going to sleep myself...
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Last try: Are you saying that taking out Saddam was a good thing, and I should ignore the economic cost of this action, because the human benefit was so large?
If that's your argument then my response is: Why shouldn't the cost be shared more evenly? The US spends a much larger percentage of GDP on military than does any NATO or EU country. Let them do their share.
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ok, give me 2 mins...
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Are you saying that taking out Saddam was a good thing, and I should ignore the economic cost of this action, because the human benefit was so large?
I think it was a good thing that you took out Saddam for the sake of the Iraqi people and its close by neihbours.
And you should ignore the economic costs of this and focus on the losses of your American soldiers instead...
If that's your argument then my response is: Why shouldn't the cost be shared more evenly? The US spends a much larger percentage of GDP on military than does any NATO or EU country. Let them do their share.
America will get every cent back from building Iraq up from Scratch...
What did i gain pearsonally from America taking out Saddam? why should i pay anything?
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OK so you are saying that invasion of Iraq is justified by long-term economic benefits to the USA.
I think that's very cynical, and that people should not be dying violently to benefit our economy.
I would also say that our government is not authorized by the Consitution to fight wars for economic gain. They are authorized: "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions"
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No im not saying anything about justifyed war or not, im djust adressing your money concerns thats all...
And if you think that the iraq war was not justified then you shouldnt even be thinking about the money issue, you should be thinking of your soldiers lifes instead...
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Basically money concerns come down to this.
Taxation = slavery.
The government forces me to spend a certain percentage of my time working as a slave for them or else they put me in jail.
My money = my labor = my time = my life.
So I have a very personal interest in what they do with the tax money.
Worrying about soldiers dying is nice but it's not everything. It's noble to say that human life is priceless, but in the extreme, there is a price. If I had to pay double taxes for a year and no soldiers died (instead of a few hundred), I would consider that deal. If I had to pay 100% taxes for 10 years to save one soldier, no way, sorry. We can't just say that money doesn't matter compared to human lives, because it does, and our society makes these "transactions" every day in many ways that we don't even think about.
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So it all comes down to : Money is everything
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No, read again, I edited.
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and our society makes these "transactions" every day in many ways that we don't even think about.
Yes im fully aware on this, this we need not argue about... everyone knows that everyone on planet earth cannot have the same life standars as you and i for an example...
For people to be rich there has to be poor people...
This is getting too deep and i need some sleep, its over 3 o clock in the night here...
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Yep, we are way off topic. I'm really hungry now.
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(click)
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Funked, no one wants to pay the high cost of freedom, but most know the cost of freedom does not come without some sacrifice.
I respect your position, and I too felt the same way at one time in my life, but I changed somewhere between 1993 and 2001,
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Rip please explain to me how there is any significant external threat to our freedom, and furthermore please explain how spending such a ridiculous percentage of GDP on defense neutralizes that threat.
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Wow Funked.....I...agree.....with ....you (hey, that didn't hurt to say that :D )
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Rip please explain to me how there is any significant external threat to our freedom, and furthermore please explain how spending such a ridiculous percentage of GDP on defense neutralizes that threat.
Funked, prior to 9.11, I always told my wife that if a terrorist had his watermelon together, they'd set off a nuke with the WTC as its epicenter. You take out wallstreet, and all records, created a 7 trillion dollar problem, and you've taken the US to its financial knees, not unlike that of the former Soviet Union (with a miliary build up race instead of a catastrophe) Apparently, Wallstreet and our central bank systems after taken action post-9.11 to prevent this sort of thing from happening, however the threat of a major city being devastated by a chemical, biological, or nuclear attack is enough to be "involved" in what is transpiring in the world, this include the occupation of countries such as Iraq, which recently has proven to be true regarding the Libya scenario recently.
There are people in the world today that simply hate us for our lifestyles alone, let alone lack of faith or lack of THEIR particular faith. They will do anything, make up any excuse, to bring #1 down. If you can't see that in todays world events, then maybe you should spend less time on the WRX websites and more time paying attention to current events.
Regarding our GDP percentage on defense, its minute compared to that of the former Soviet Union.
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Sorry Rip,
It isn't a jealousy thing. The terrorism arises out of hate and revenge, not jealousy.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Sorry Rip,
It isn't a jealousy thing. The terrorism arises out of hate and revenge, not jealousy.
Revenge? Please explain.
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Answer the question Rip. Buildings falling down in Manhattan is bad, but it doesn't affect my freedom. What affects my freedom is the government extorting thousands of dollars from me each month.
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I'll try best by giving you this scenario:
I don't think there's a single person here that wasn't horrified by what happened on 9/11. Even though most of us didn't really know personally the victims, we felt sorrow and hate for those behind the attacks. We want revenge to punish those responsible. We want blood. Ain't a jealousy thing.
The terrorists (pick any cause driven one, not money driven) choose to attack, not out of jealousy, but out of revenge for:
persecution, friends/family/just fellow countrymen being killed.
Anyone resorting to terror attacks esp sacraficing their own lives in a suicide attempt is not out of petty jealousy. It is out of extreme hate for what they feel has been done to them. It is their last avenue of action as they feel those that wield the real power do not listen, nor do they care for their causes.
Remember this point most of all. It is not what you think of your enemy that is dangerous, but what your enemy thinks of you.
Don't take my point here as justification for what those animals did to us on 9/11. I just understand that it isn't a jealousy motive that attacked us.
Bin Laden was interviewed awhile back by a PBS ( I think) reporter. It gives insight into the man's mind and his motives. I'll try and dig it up for you if you wish.
BTW, these terror attacks have been going on since the dawn of mankind, unfortunetly will continue well into our future. I hope we can end the needless bloodshed before we wipe all of mankind out.
Regards
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Hell, by Bin Laden's own admission, one of the biggest reasons for 9/11 is the bloated American military presence around the world, specifically in Saudi Arabia.
Let's stop using our military to artificially decrease the price of petroleum, and let American ideals like free enterprise and innovation take care of the problem. I guaran-dang-tee you they will quickly lose interest in attacking us if we stop meddling in their military and political affairs.
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Yeah, he also made this chilling threat:
As long as the Palestinian knows no peace, neither shall the Americans. (something like that)
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Sorta dovetails into my foreign aid statement don't it? :D
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PS there's a hidden Cracker Jack prize in my little policy list for the enviro-whackos. :)
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http://www.albasrah.net/maqalat/english/khasbaghdad_e_16122003.htm
Good to see Baghdad Bob is employed again, I missed that crazy little fella.:D
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funked1 has a point. I say this mainly because his avatard is JeffK!!!! (http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk/)
yor so studmuffinottry d00d taht i hvae to agre!!?!!
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Funked,
I just gotta know...are you and Ripsnort freepers? If you are then I knew I felt comfortable in the presence of fellows. If not then maybe you guys should check out http://www.freerepublic.com
Crapgame
Blue Knights Diversity Officer
http://www.we-know-whats-right.blogspot.com
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Saburo, I think jealosy has alot to do with it as well. That and our support of isreal. OBL himself also said american citizens are targets because we pay taxes to a zoinist govt.
Most of this is bread from young arabs who are brainwashed into thinking that their race is the oldest yet most arab countries are third world nations. They are also told that this is americas fault. Then they are educated on how americans want nothing more than to steal the arabs oil and turn the land over to the jews. Somone who has great ability to speak and to shape minds can easily spin anything and make young impresionable poor kids think its the truth. Throw some religion into the mix and you have yourself a future suicide bomber.
I dont agree with Funks vew on Isolationism....But I do agree with his veiws on taxes. I hate having a portion of my meager paycheck taken out to pay for programs that I never use.....or programs that wont be available to me (social security) when I retire. I wish I could take all the money I pay into social security and move it into my TSP (thrift savings plan).....Just my rant.
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Originally posted by SLO
man....thats just too funny.....and scary at the same time.
I don't wanna call em stupid.....but that article just confirms it.
Clearly the rags on there heads are too tight.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Answer the question Rip. Buildings falling down in Manhattan is bad, but it doesn't affect my freedom. What affects my freedom is the government extorting thousands of dollars from me each month.
This post just bugs the hell outa me.
Are you saying that the loss of life in that attack is meaningless as long as it doesn't cost you any money?
Maybe I'm reading this differently from what you intended when you posted but it sure seems very selfish to me.
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I typed it in plain English and meant what I said.
"Are you saying that the loss of life in that attack is meaningless as long as it doesn't cost you any money? "
I said nothing of that sort.
I said 9/11 (bldg in Manhattan) was bad. I pointed out that one of the main reasons for terrorism (and specifically 9/11, by Bin Laden's own words) is the massive US military presence and general meddling overseas. And I suggested we reduce that presence. Which would, IMHO, reduce the risk of future 9/11 attacks a lot more than they are reduced by the current half-assed nation building efforts in whatever country is unpopular this week.
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Originally posted by Crapgame
Funked,
I just gotta know...are you and Ripsnort freepers? If you are then I knew I felt comfortable in the presence of fellows. If not then maybe you guys should check out http://www.freerepublic.com
Crapgame
Blue Knights Diversity Officer
http://www.we-know-whats-right.blogspot.com
I will check that site out, thanks.
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So we should let our foriegn policy be driven by bin ladin and others like him. After all we wouldn't want to make them angry or anything.
Yeah I saw your post was in english but like I said it still sounds rather selfish.
Frankly I can go with some pull back of forces overseas but the result with further whittling back would be less ability to do anything if needed. Similar to what happened in previous isolationist periods.
I don't see the US being able to hunker down and avoid problems by being passive and not looking out for our interests outside of the borders of the country. The globe is too damn small for that anymore. Too many industries are now dependant on a global economy and resources are not centered in the US.
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Originally posted by Maverick
I don't see the US being able to hunker down and avoid problems by being passive and not looking out for our interests outside of the borders of the country. The globe is too damn small for that anymore. Too many industries are now dependant on a global economy and resources are not centered in the US.
On the other hand, we can't be too imperial or unilateral either.
Somewhere there is a middle ground between passivity and unilateralism.
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Sandy,
There's the rub. Unfortunately it's hindsight that shows the direction that should have been taken. If we could only have hindsight and foresight change places......
People being the very fallible critters they are are stuck with making the best "educated" guesses they can and muddle through.
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withdraw all support and all garentees from israel. they want to start a tac nuke fest god bless um. otherwise they get to make pease fast or die. not letting the situation resolve itself naturaly in israel/middle east is the whole reason for all this death. this is not isolationism its common sence.
give every isreali citizen a ticket to the midwest state with absolute safty and all the land they can throw a stick at. and let um have at it. if they want a twentyfirst centruy masada that is their business.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
There are people in the world today that simply hate us for our lifestyles alone, let alone lack of faith or lack of THEIR particular faith. They will do anything, make up any excuse, to bring #1 down. If you can't see that in todays world events, then maybe you should spend less time on the WRX websites and more time paying attention to current events.
Regarding our GDP percentage on defense, its minute compared to that of the former Soviet Union.
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SOLD!!!! to propaganda machine number 3....
In other news: US propaganda machine #3 receives the 'E' award for excellence with it's contribution to mind control spread around america... It was a close tie between machine #7 and #3. The later clearly being the winner after this obscure post was found to be totally believed by its writter....
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ldv,
Yeah lets resettle all the Isreali's. I vote that they get your house first. The fact that they don't want to is immaterial, right? We must mollify the arabs so they don't get all angry and do nasty things being the advanced civilized people they are.... I don't recall an Isreali premise that they demand the end or destruction of any other country in the area. :rolleyes: (note heavy sarcasm here) I'm sure the "nuke fest" (your words) would benefit the globe imensely.
Seems to me that ALL the players in the middle east have to come to the understanding that they ALL have a right to live and they ALL need to learn to get along. Cooperation there could lead to a much greater prosperity for all of them if they would just stop the ingrained hate fest they have.
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Just a curious note: Do we have any "players" that live in southwest asia/middle east?
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3 yrs later and I'm still right...
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
3 yrs later and I'm still right...
You're so unattractive when you gloat. ;)
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I piss excellence.
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I am sure you meant Four Gin policy, not what you typed in the thread title.