Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Halo on December 20, 2003, 03:53:26 PM
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In most Combat Theater scenarios, there's always a base or two that if captured will pork the arena. Why? Shouldn't this be a nonissue with players? Why are such bases allowed in the arena setup?
Just curious what the technical reason is that this issue continues so long. Seems like should just have the two sides and no third side poison pill.
Is it that the basic Aces High design dictates the third side cannot be designed out, just minimized to one, and if used, that zaps the arena?
Well, if so, still not clear why that would be in Combat Theater.
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You are right .. the third country needs to have at least one base. If that base is captured the 'host' resets and all fields are changed ...
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Apparently the terrain designer/editor requires threes sides. Quite often the third (left out) side is a single base (because what's the point in having several, I suppose, from the designer's standpoint). It seems that whenever a custom designed terrain resets it'll cause plane types to switch sides - errr - which actually is probably a default feature.
For future design considerations, however, I still recommend sticking the third wheel base or bases on a 50k mountain peak way off the map in bumfogopia with dense ack batteries running up the upper quarter of it.
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Terrains do not have to have 3 sides or dummy fields off the map, it's just a lack of understanding by the mapmaker. Most ct maps are poorly designed.
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Prety much every map made in the past year or so for use in the CT (and dual use CT/SEA) , has the third county represented off map (Okinawa is an example of this)with a couple bases and the HQ well out of reach. NUTTZ's Tunsia map is geting fairly old (map wise) and predates many of the leasons we have learned since then.
To the Best of my knolwedge al maps must have three countrys, even if the one has only a basae or two.
The map maker for this map has prety much retired for mapmaking so geting it redone has proven almost imposable.
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Lets see your map Zmeg... Sheesh..
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Good one 10Bears .. :lol
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Originally posted by 10Bears
Lets see your map Zmeg... Sheesh..
ive seen zmegs map. he has made atleast 20 of them. all very well designed
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Really? Have any been used in the CT? Why not??
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Because he's not one of the good `ol boys? *ShruG* ;)
Hell .... if he can make better CT maps that aren't so pork prone - I'm all for it. There's some beautiful maps already but why can't they be edited? :aok
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Prety much all the map makers that have built maps for the CT have been regular guy's who wanted to do somting good for the comunity and make a map, most went on to bigger and better things and actualy became a part of the CM corp in the process, and they still have time for us in the CT, we should all be very appricative of the efforts, many folks contribute to the making of the maps it is a serious endevor consuming many hundereds of hours...I do mean hundreds.
If zmeg can make maps and would like to have one used in the CT he is more than welcome to drop me a line or any of the staff and we can see to it that his map gets ran, I am fairly certain for a map to work on any of the servers that HTC uses it nead be a three sided map, I dont know about Head to Head it may well be that two sided maps work just fine their.
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Whoa, Brady. I don't think anyone isn't appreciative of the beautiful terrains - so no need to jump to the defense here. The questions are:
1: Why have three-sided maps in the CT if porking the third wheel messes things up? Since there's occasionally a "spoiler" who, for whatever reason - frustration, etc. - decides to bomb these bases in spite of the MTD and warnings from players and sometimes even staff, the question bears some merit.
2: If they have to have three sides, why not design the third side to be practically impossible to pork (so far "off the map" it takes 3 hours to reach it and/or on a mountain so high it's practically impossible to climb to)? And why can't current terrains be edited and fixed? "It's a known issue/bug with the terrain" isn't an answer ... it's an excuse. I can understand not wanting to pile it back into the lap of the original terrain maker if they'd rather not invest the time anymore but why can't another player edit it? Doesn't HTC own all rights and privs to the terrain once it's submitted? Why would HTC object to terrain editing that addresses problems and improves a map?
A good additional question would be:
3: For players who are interested in creating terrains, would the "terrain vets" be interested in compiling information on some of the decent tricks of the trade and solutions to problems they encountered while making terrains and posting this info somewhere easily accessable? The proggie isn't the most user-friendly one I've ever encountered and could easily discourage new terrain-makers (which indeed makes the appreciation for those who've already created terrains with it even greater).
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Originally posted by zmeg
Terrains do not have to have 3 sides or dummy fields off the map, it's just a lack of understanding by the mapmaker. Most ct maps are poorly designed.
zmeg - three sides are necessary. I won't go into why, because that info is available in the TE help files and if you don't understand the TE help files you can post a question that I can just about garauntee will get an answer.
As a matter of fact just about everything you need to know about building terrains is in the TE help files. If what you're looking for isn't in the help files, go through the TE forum and look for you answer there - I'm just about certain that you'll find the info you need there. That's where I found what I needed.
HOW I BUILT MY FIRST TERRAIN (Libya)
1 - read the TE help files and played with the TE for a couple of months;
2 - answered Brady's call for a desert terrain with the idea for the Libya terrain;
3 - built the terrain and terrain tiles, and put the terrain together; and then,
4 - showed the terrain to Brady when it was finished and then submitted it to HTC.
If I can build an acceptable terrain then anyone can. It just takes effort and time. If someone isn't willing to put in either the effort or the time then they aren't going to build a usable terrain.
Personally I would like to see more people build terrains for the CT. The more terrains the CT staff have available to use for their setups the better as far as I'm concerned. The smaller the pool of terrain builders, the fewer the original ideas that will be generated and there's too much chance of stratification developing within the community which will make it much more difficult for newbie terrain builders to break in.
Cheers,
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Arlo,
1) As mentioned above some maps that we still use on ocashion like the Tunsia map are not quiet perfect in this regard, we try and avoid using them when we can howeaver on ocashion we will run them since it is a good terain for the plane set and the time frame, and most all newer maps dont have this problem.
2) Most all new maps have the third country off map whear it is imposable to atack. Nuttz map is an example of one older map we still use for lack of a replacement for it, to the best of my knoledge it is nesessary for the map maker to send the file to someone to fix it, I asked NUTTZ in an email before if he would fix the map and or let some else do it, he may well of not goten it, but I got no reply. Part of the reasion I asked ASW to do the Libbya map was to get a better map made that did not have the problems that the Tunsia map has(for NA set up's), on this map (libbya) the third country is way out of reach, over all it is a far better map and has some realy great skins as well.
3) I think ASW answered this far better than I could of.
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Brady,
1: It's a pretty terrain and the setting works but if it has technical issues (such as the frame sucking cloud cluster of death) then it shouldn't be run again until it's fixed.
2: Why in the world does the map maker have to send the map file to someone for it to be edited? We all download the bloody terrain to play on it. And even if that's not enough (for some odd reason), shouldn't you have access to whatever files are needed from HTC upon request? What does the terrain designer retain that nobody else has access to?
3: All asw said, essentially, was RTFM, dig through the TE forum and post your questions there instead of here (in spite of his apparent desire to see more players build terrains). The TE help files don't fill in all the blanks by a fair margin. And, even though digging through pages of posts is an option, having the data formatted and easier to access on a website would be much better. It also has the added advantage of answering questions that hadn't yet occured to the novice would-be terrain editor types.
Granted, he's not anymore obligated to create or assist in creating a readily accessable source of compiled data based on the experiences of those who've created terrains to date (both their mistakes and their successes) but it would be nice.
I suppose we could start with a FAQ creation thread (whether it be here or in the TE forum - though there whatever FAQ arises from it can be "stickied" to the top) where struggling TE novices post questions and established TE vets post their answers (preferably multiple povs and solutions where the best is eventually arrived at) in return.
:D
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Your fault Bradys.. ought not to look a gift horse in the mouth.
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I still have the Bf109F-4/Trop and SpitV Desert camo skin, which I'm dying to see implemented in desert maps :D
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Watch it or they'll make you make your own using just the TE help files. ;)
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1) WHile it is a hard issue for some folks systems not everyone has this issue, I dont use it for these and other reasions myself but some of the staff still like it, and I cant realy faul;t them for useing it.
2) I realy dont Know I just heard they nead the build fill (I think that is what it is caled).
3) Ya sounds good to me, I took one look at the TE and ran screaming from the house.
10Bears..I dont think asking NUTTZ to fix a couple of things that made his map quiet anouying and almost unplayable for a few folks was to much to ask, he certainly had my respect and aprication (and still does), which I share with all the map makers for AH yourself included, if somthing neads changing I will ask for it to be done wheather or not that hapens is another mater:) It is the map makers peragative to do anything at all including changes.
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Originally posted by Arlo
And, even though digging through pages of posts is an option, having the data formatted and easier to access on a website would be much better. It also has the added advantage of answering questions that hadn't yet occured to the novice would-be terrain editor types. :D
Sounds like a great plan to me - let me know when you've got it done :)
Cheers
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Originally posted by detch01
Sounds like a great plan to me - let me know when you've got it done :)
Cheers
As soon as you telepathically divulge all your experiences to me (which is apparently the only option left now). :D
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Arlo, all the information anyone needs to build a terrain is available in the TE help files and in the TE forum. Yes it takes a little digging to find it but it's there.
If you think a knowledge bank would be a good idea then build one - personally I agree it would be useful but I'm too busy to do it myself or a TE tutorial web site would already exist. I'm pretty sure most of us who have some experience making terrains would be willing to contribute. Just as we are willing to help out people who are building terrains and need some help or information.
If all you're going to do is suggest what others should or should not be doing then you won't get a lot of time or interest for your projects.
The Short Version: Step up to the plate or go away.
Just a note on modifying other people's CT terrains: It doesn't get done without the permission of the builder - plain, flat and ****ing simple.
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Originally posted by detch01
Just a note on modifying other people's CT terrains: It doesn't get done without the permission of the builder - plain, flat and ****ing simple.
Why's that? Are you telling me that you retain all rights and privileges to terrains you submit to HTC? Or are you insinuating that it's HTC's policy to not let other players edit or fix terrains you've submitted without securing permission from you first?
And even if that's the case (which it could be but it seems like an odd arrangement by HTC), why wouldn't you?
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Bradys I sense a pattern with you for some time now. It’s a bit frustrating to say the least. I found out the CT setup guys don’t use strat resupply.. Odd.. So I recall writing an email to you explaining that I had spent x number of hours measuring out the roadway, spacing out the trucks, barges and so forth. I explained that it takes about 30 minutes for the bases to rebuild anyway. What’s good about re-supply is if the guys needed 3 more minutes for the m3 or C47 to arrive, they could strafe the convoy. Your answer?... Sorry, CT Staff says no strat re-supply.. Then myself and other and suggested time and time again for certain planes to be included in your setups and I’ve got to tell ya.. it’s like going up against a brick wall.
Stubborn uncompressing people like you get charged a little extra in this life.. My offer, to redo the Slot, correct a lot of errors, add lots of new bombing targets, new types of strat comes at a price.
I wish to take your spot as setup guy for one week. My settings.
I was also going to make a New Guinea terrain but your attitude of my way or the highway leaves one less than inclined to work with you.
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I am sry 10Bears that you feal that way.
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Vote 10Bears:aok
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Originally posted by brady
I am sry 10Bears that you feal that way.
Using "Arlo glasses" I read this as a "no." :D
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Originally posted by Arlo
Why's that? Are you telling me that you retain all rights and privileges to terrains you submit to HTC? Or are you insinuating that it's HTC's policy to not let other players edit or fix terrains you've submitted without securing permission from you first?
1 - What rights I retain or have transferred to HTC with regard to any terrain I have in circulation in the game is a matter between HTC and myself.
2 - I insinuated nothing. The statement means exactly what it says. If you're interested in the details of HTC's policy contact them directly.
Originally posted by Arlo"...why wouldn't you?"
Why wouldn't I what - update a terrain I've built? You've jumped to a conclusion here - a wrong one again: I am going to update all of the terrains that I think will be useful in AH2 to the new standard when I have both the AH2TE in my hands and the time to do the work.
Or do you mean why would I not give my permission for someone else to modify my work? (which is still a conclusion wrongly jumped to) Actually, depending on who it is, how it is arranged, and if the intended final results meet with my approval, I have no problem with having someone else modify my work. After the modifications are done, if the actual results closely approximate the intended results I would have no problem having the updated terrain used and the credit given where it is due.
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Originally posted by detch01
1 - What rights I retain or have transferred to HTC with regard to any terrain I have in circulation in the game is a matter between HTC and myself.
Hmmmmmmm. All terrains submitted and accepted by HTC become the property of HTC by default, don't they? If you've negotiated some sort of personal contract that you're not really at liberty to divulge (although you damned near spilled the beans) then good for you!
Originally posted by detch01
2 - I insinuated nothing. The statement means exactly what it says. If you're interested in the details of HTC's policy contact them directly.
*Shrug* (see above)
Originally posted by detch01
Why wouldn't I what - update a terrain I've built? You've jumped to a conclusion here - a wrong one again: I am going to update all of the terrains that I think will be useful in AH2 to the new standard when I have both the AH2TE in my hands and the time to do the work.
Actually you just did but you go on to stretch and cover two bases at once in a second.
Originally posted by detch01
Or do you mean why would I not give my permission for someone else to modify my work? (which is still a conclusion wrongly jumped to) Actually, depending on who it is, how it is arranged, and if the intended final results meet with my approval, I have no problem with having someone else modify my work. After the modifications are done, if the actual results closely approximate the intended results I would have no problem having the updated terrain used and the credit given where it is due.
No ... I said "why WOULDN'T you?" Seems you're even better at this bad conclusion thang than me.
So what you're saying is that you don't intend to make or edit any terrains for AH anymore but are waiting for AHII to make full release and that you won't accept anyone else fixing any technical problems with your terrains unless their quality standards meet you approval and you get proper credit as the original creator of the terrain? :D
Well that's nice. :aok Tell ya what .... I'll just leave you alone about it all and check with others less defensive about the issue all around (I certainly didn't intend to infuriate you over the issue). I know you've invested your time on a voluntary basis for the benefit of the CT and are in semi-retirement and all. I'm sorry to have bothered you specifically about this topic in this thread. Hopefully someday I'll be able to contribute my own time and retain rights to things used in AH as well. It was rude of me to suggest that those before me (or anyone else) volunteer anymore of their time offering specific advice or hints or even knowledge of mistakes they made. All new terrain makers should have to struggle and teach themselves the finer points over a long period of time. Thanks. :)
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LOL Arlo, np bud. You go ahead on.
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I Have an Idea..lets pool all our soda pop money and hire a babysitter to hold peoples hands and read manuals to them.
Get a grip.
RTR
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Originally posted by RTR
I Have an Idea..lets pool all our soda pop money and hire a babysitter to hold peoples hands and read manuals to them.
Get a grip.
RTR
I loved your last terrain, too, RTR. Grip yerownself. :D