Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Raptor on December 21, 2003, 10:40:50 PM
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Early F4U models were land based, but the raising number of kamikazi's outrunning Hellcats made them remodel Corsair to be a carrier based plane. Why then are all the AH Corsairs carrier based?
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Originally posted by Raptor01
Early F4U models were land based, but the raising number of kamikazi's outrunning Hellcats made them remodel Corsair to be a carrier based plane. Why then are all the AH Corsairs carrier based?
After the first delivery of an F4U-1 on 31 July 1942, more than two years passed before the US Navy cleared the type for shipboard operations. The Corsair was found to be much too difficult to land on a carrier deck. First of all, the pilot could hardly see the deck, because he sat so far aft of the bulky engine. The F4U tended to stall without warning, and was then certain to drop the starboard wing. Quick action had to be taken to prevent a spin. Spin recovery was difficult. In landing configuration, the F4U-1 would stall at 141km/h. A warning light would light at 148km/h. On touchdown, the F4U-1 had sluggish controls and insufficient directional stability. It also was prone to "bounce" because of overly stiff landing gear oleo legs.
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Raptor01 posted
Early F4U models were land based, but the raising number of kamikazi's outrunning Hellcats made them remodel Corsair to be a carrier based plane. Why then are all the AH Corsairs carrier based?
Whoops ... methinks you need to do a bit more research. The Corsair was always intended to be a carrier-borne aircraft and was designed so from it's inception - tailhook and all. The Navy shifted it to land-based status primarily over a logistics concern with a secondary concern over it requiring more skill to operate off of a carrier than the F6F. With time it was proven that it could be utilized just as effectively as any other fleet stationed plane. The FAA used it off of their carriers from day one.
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Certain F4Us had non-folding wings.
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Which ones, SunTracker? This might be quite enlightening. :D
http://www.f4ucorsair.com/tdata/history.htm
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Think they were called FG-1s. They had non-folding wings, no tailhooks, and were lighter than Navy Corsairs. The Marines used the FG-1.
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Don't think just yet. Read the link. :D
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http://www.vought.com/heritage/special/html/sf4u4.html
"Goodyear’s version was designated FG-1. In 1943, Goodyear delivered 377 FG-1’s. In 1944, Goodyear boosted the production rate six-fold to 2,108 aircraft. Another 1,521 FG-1’s were accepted in the 8 months of hostilities during 1945 for a wartime total of 4,006 aircraft. This amounted to over one-third of all Corsairs produced during World War II. Many of these FG-1’s were built with non-folding wings during the period before Corsairs were put aboard carriers, and these aircraft went to land-based Marine squadrons."
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I thought the Royal Navy were first to use the Corsair on carriers?
Dont say read the link - because i cant be bothered and i dont care :p
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If you can't be bothered and you don't care ... watcha doin? :D
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Originally posted by phobia
http://www.vought.com/heritage/special/html/sf4u4.html
"Goodyear’s version was designated FG-1. In 1943, Goodyear delivered 377 FG-1’s. In 1944, Goodyear boosted the production rate six-fold to 2,108 aircraft. Another 1,521 FG-1’s were accepted in the 8 months of hostilities during 1945 for a wartime total of 4,006 aircraft. This amounted to over one-third of all Corsairs produced during World War II. Many of these FG-1’s were built with non-folding wings during the period before Corsairs were put aboard carriers, and these aircraft went to land-based Marine squadrons."
Boy is my face red! :D Ok, I agree. If HTC models the FG-1 (the non-Vought Goodyear non-folding wing use on land only version) it shouldn't be a carrier bird. :) :aok
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It was the FAA that showed the USN that a curving approached got around the lack of forward visibility during carrier approach for landing, err controlled crashes.
All WW2 a/c had forward visiblility problems over the nose.
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Originally posted by Arlo
If you can't be bothered and you don't care ... watcha doin? :D
I hadn't posted anything in a while... lol
Originally posted by MiloMorai
All WW2 a/c had forward visiblility problems over the nose.
(http://iquebec.ifrance.com/2iemeguerre/avions/images/Image846.jpg)
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Furball, let re-phrase that.;)
All single engine tail dragger fighters......
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Originally posted by Furball
I thought the Royal Navy were first to use the Corsair on carriers?
Dont say read the link - because i cant be bothered and i dont care :p
Correct Furby. The Royal Navy's 'Fleet Air Arm' (FAA) used the Corsair from day one. They overcome poor deck landing by making a circuit approach rather than straight in approach.
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lol arlo..that was a fun thread to read..and re read..
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Dunno ... kinda embarrasin' to get blindsided by that FG-1 thang I managed to miss in all my years of amateur F4U/VF-17 quasi-historical ree-zerch.
Never-the-less .... here's a somewhat snipped version of the experiences of VF-17 and the F4U starting in early 1943:
Organizing VF-17, Early 1943
In December 1942, he received orders to form and command Fighting Squadron 17 (VF-17) which was to serve on the new Essex-class carrier Bunker Hill. Reporting to Norfolk, Virginia on Jan. 1, 1943, he began to organize his new command.
The all-new squadron was to begin working with the Vought F4U-1 Corsair, a hot new fighter, which the Navy's test pilots viewed with trepidation and was barely in production. In addition they had to integrate their fighter activities with the Bunker Hill's dive bomber and torpedo plane squadrons. The plans called for them to be in the Pacific by August, 1943. Since the new Corsairs were not due until February, Blackburn started training and evaluating his fresh pilots on SNJs and F4Fs. By the end of January, all the fliers had soloed in the Wildcats.
Learning Carrier Ops
The first step in getting carrier-qualified was to land on a simulated carrier: a marked-off, carrier-sized area on a longer concrete runway. After accomplishing this, Blackburn made the first real carrier landing on May 1. With the skilled LSO, Catwalk Cummings, guiding him, he approached at 90 knots, chopped the throttle, IMPACTED the deck and BOUNCED about 20 FEET in the air! All the tires blew out, but the plane and pilot were okay. His next four landings improved. In due course all VF-17 pilots made their required five carrier landings without loss.
There were plenty of challenges. The Corsair was tempermental beast that required careful maintenance. Before starting its engine, two men had to pull the prop around several times to clear the lower cylinders of oil. Then it had to be primed with gasoline, but not so much as to flood it.
Finally, they fired the shotgun starter -- which sometimes worked. The plane also leaked oil, from the engine and from the 14 cowling flaps - each with its own little hydraulic system. To cope with oil-obscured windshields, the pilots learned to look for rain clouds to duck under for a quick wash.
Bunker Hill cleared the ways at Quincy, Massachusetts in June of 1943 and shortly arrived off Norfolk, where VF-17 welcomed her in grand fashion, three 8-plane flights buzzing her from three different directions. After taking aboard her three air squadrons (dive bomber, torpedo, and fighter), Bunker Hill set off on her shakedown cruise in Trinidad's Gulf of Paria, a wonderfully protected 30 by 70 mile bay. Here they repeatedly practiced the complex details of carrier operations, not only the three air squadrons comprising the air department,but the other departments as well: engineering, navigation, gunnery, supply, communications, etc.
Carrier Flight Operations
They practiced flight deck operations, "spotting" the planes, i.e. optimally positioning the 90 planes on the flight and hangar decks for the air operation underway or anticipated. Taxiing or take-off accidents had to be avoided at all costs. While any accident that endangered life or valuable property was to be avoided, such an event on the flight deck of a carrier instantly rendered the huge, expensive, and complex ship completely useless and vulnerable. Thus plane-spotting and flight deck operations had to be perfect.
The flight deck officer oversaw the launches and landings. Using hand and flag signals, he precisely instructed the pilot in take-off position to rev up and take-off. In seconds, he then signalled number two. His assistant, the yellow-shirted director, ordered the next waiting plane up into take-off position, and turned over direction of that plane to the flight deck officer. And so on, all perfectly choreographed, and executed as rapidly as possibly, to save precius seconds and minutes in a combat situation. The air officers monitored all the flight deck ops and constantly worked to improve them. An elaborate system of fines helped motivate the pilots to achieve perfection.
During the shakedown cruise, problems with the Corsair (especially carrier landings) triggered the first official question. ComAirLant offered to replace VF-17's Corsairs with F6F Hellcats. Blackburn felt strongly that the Corsair was a better fighting plane and recommended that they stay with it. Further the Vought company had incorporated several improvements and promised to deliver twelve of the new F4U-1As to Norfolk on August 10. The pilots cheered the subsequent official decision to deploy VF-17 with Corsairs. On their return to Norfolk, the new -1As were ready; all hands worked long hours to familiarize themselves with them. At this point, Blackburn accepted Tom Killefer's transfer into Fighting-17, the first of many talented, but restive castoffs from other squadrons.
Apparently settled with planes and pilots, Bunker Hill set off for the Pacific on September 10. Transit of the Panama Canal proved a fascinating experience.
Beached!
But a few days out, official lightning struck. VF-17 was detached from Bunker Hill, and ordered to the island of Espiritu Santo, to operate as a land-based squadron. The problem was one of logistics, not of operations. The high command knew that Blackburn's Corsairs could operate from a carrier. But as the only Corsair squadron in a Navy full of Grumman Hellcats and Wildcats, supplying and maintaining them would be a headache. Ashore in the Solomons, VF-17 could rely on Marine Corps' established Corsair maintenance resources. There was no appeal. On October 2, they off-loaded from Bunker Hill (minus a precious typewriter that Blackburn had tried to expropriate).
Sources:
Tom Blackburn and Eric Hammel, The Jolly Rogers, Pocket Books, 1989.
http://www.acepilots.com/usn_blackburn.html