Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: FUNKED1 on December 22, 2003, 12:39:24 PM
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Is there a white halfback anywhere in the league?
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As soon as there are some white boys that can compete physically with the big dogs (black half backs) maybe there will be?
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If there was, he'd be richer than god.
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The Pittsburg runningback from the late 80's is the last one I remember in recent history. Of course, the Fullback position his chocked full of white land masses. Though, I can't think of a single instant in the HB/FB role where there's someone of a different race "that could be doing it better" than the player that was selected.
I don't think "race" issues had anything to do with the overall numbers funkypants. It had to do with the difference between the % at the player levels vs the % at the management/leadership levels. The NFL is working to "correct" this.
Seems 50% of the starting QBs are black this year... can't say I ever rember that happening. Too bad most of them suck and provide fuel for Rush Limbaugh's comments. Of course, most of the white quartebacks suck this year too.
MiniD
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let's ask Jimmy the Greek about this ...
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"JIMMY YOU STUPID WOP! YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO SAY THAT OUT LOUD! YOU'RE FIRED!"
MiniD
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Ritchie for the Eagles. Was the FB for the Raiders until last year.
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Well if you apply the same logic they are using for the front office affirmative action...
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That's not the same logic funkypants. Not even close.
Running back is a very qualitative position. Qualities are clearly displayed for all to see and evaluate. You don't hire runningbacks based on neputism or bias. You hire them based on their performance. Can you say the same of most front office positions?
MiniD
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I disagree on both points.
Certain coaches (Parcells most notably) have guys who they always manage to get on their teams, even though they are not quantitatively good players. They aren't especially fast or big or strong, they don't have great stats, Parcells just likes their attitude.
And coaches and GMs are most definitely hired and fired based on track record of Wins and Losses.
Detroit being fined for hiring Mooch is the most ridiculous episode [chucky]in the history of this great league.[/chucky]
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Parcels hires based on performance and willingness to do what he says.
Coaches are fired based on performance... not hired based on it. Several rehash coaches would have been out long ago if that was the case.
And right now, you're talking about 1 position funkypants... coach. OK... 12 positions if you count assistant coaches. How many more in the front office? Quite a few when you take scouts, sales and management into account.
MiniD
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BTW funkypants... name one starting running back that parcells released because he didn't fit with the team.
MiniD
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You're right that there are more "flunkie" spots in the front office than on a front office. But there are definitely flunkie spots on the 53 man roster and there are definitely front office jobs where demonstrated performance is critical to hiring/firing decisions.
Coaches are fired based on performance... not hired based on it
In that case please explain the hirings of Bill Parcells, Dick Vermiel, Chucky, Mariucci, etc etc.
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Originally posted by Mini D
BTW funkypants... name one starting running back that parcells released because he didn't fit with the team.
MiniD
I can't think of an RB but every time he gets a new job the first thing he does is release or trade a bunch of guys he doesn't like.
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You point to the highlights and ignore the rest funkypants. Though... I don't recall parcells ever being fired, but feel free to throw his name out there again. Afterall... he's white.
How many coaches have already been fired this year? Where do you think they'll end up and where do you think their replacements will come from?
MiniD
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I can't think of an RB but every time he gets a new job the first thing he does is release or trade a bunch of guys he doesn't like.
There are positions where you can swap and shop as much as you like, and positions where you can't. I believe it was you who was asking specifically about runningbacks. I challenge you to find a single runningback that could compete for a starting position that is not currently playing for a team. Hell... I won't even go the extra mile to ask you to find one that's white.
MiniD
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Eat more oatmeal.
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Originally posted by Mini D
I don't recall parcells ever being fired, but feel free to throw his name out there again.
Read your own message. You said coaches are not hired based on performance. I listed several counter-examples, guys who teams hired because they had proven winning records in the NFL.
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MiniD, the white HB thing was a joke. It's ironic because if the NFL applied the same logic to HB jobs as they do to front office jobs, they would fine any team that did not give a white RB a tryout every time an HB slot opened up.
You attempted to dismiss the similarity between the two situations by saying that all player hirings are performance based (which I refuted, as there are many examples of coaches bringing in "their guy" based purely on intangible factors) and by saying that coach hirings are not performance based (which is demonstrably untrue in the case of the coaches I listed). Either address my counter examples or admit defeat. Or you can just declare victory regardless of the facts, in which case you shall henceforth be known as MiniDrip.
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Hmm...drunk minds think alike Funked. I just mentioned this to a friend like a week ago. If they want to force teams to interview minorities for coaching and front office jobs, they should require teams to tryout white players at every position dominated by minorities. Seems only fair.
Either that or they could let teams hire who the hell they want and stay out of it.
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"Either that or they could let teams hire who the hell they want and stay out of it."
bingo
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Worked for Baseball for almost 100 years.
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Yep and they resolved it just fine, all by themselves, without any racist edicts from league HQ.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Yep and they resolved it just fine, all by themselves, without any racist edicts from league HQ.
Just fine for who? If the league had not been so chicken**it about the "negro question" Jackie Robinson might still be alive today. Maybe we'd have had more minority representation in management much sooner.
Maybe Little Rock would have integrated eventually without the Supreme Court, but it was still the right thing to do.
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What I'm saying is that baseball owners and management realized that performance is more important than skin color, without resorting to any quotas or other racist mechanisms, like the NFL is using now.
Sure they could have made it happen sooner, but using racism to fight racism is pretty obviously a bad idea, not the right thing to do.
I think it's beautiful the way it happened. The teams that had the balls to hire black players got a competitive advantage over the morons who maintained all-white teams out of hate. Justice prevails.
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If baseball had been integrated sooner, guys like Bonds and Sosa would have been chasing a certain guy named Josh Gibson instead of Babe Ruth. The Cy Young may have been called the Satchel Paige.
Baseball has a history that rivals the US military in terms of segregation and exlusion of minorities (IIRC, I think they even started getting integrated about the same time). So holding baseball up as a model of racial equality is something that should really be done with a grain of salt.
Of course, there is better representation in the coaching/managerial ranks in baseball, but its still pretty crappy in the front office.
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Still the stupidest argument I've seen funkypants. I don't know how else to say it.
Plantation workers: 100% black
Plantation owners: 100% white
That's the perception... that's what leagues are trying to fight. The image of the league is the primary concern. Unfortunately, with individual owners, that doesn't really carry much weight as long as the rest of the owners can meet the "quota".
The great irony of the situation is what Jimmy The Greek said... "Blacks were bread to be strong, not to think." It wasn't what he said, it's that he said it out loud. The NFL has yet to prove they don't subscribe to that theory.
Once again, runningbacks are not hired because they are black. They are hired because of what they can do for the team. There just isn't much room on the field for dead weight. I dare you to say the same about the front office. I dare you to say that neputism, image and obligation do not drive the hiring in that area. Hell... I bet qualifications rank down around 4th on the list.
Hey... you work for your dad don't you funkypants?
MiniD
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Yeah Yeah Yeah but they cant race cars for watermelon LOL:D
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Originally posted by Mini D
Hey... you work for your dad don't you funkypants?
Nice one MiniDrip. Claaaaaaaaaaaaaaassy.
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Jeeze Dave..marry Xmas.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Nice one MiniDrip. Claaaaaaaaaaaaaaassy.
Wasn't a dig funkypants...
Just a reality check. I'm not knocking your qualifications for your job, but you'd have to question the decision behind your hiring... right? Was everyone else fairly evaluated and weighed against you? Did you have an "in" because of neputism?
This thread is just odd funkypants. You're pointing to an area where qualifications are clearly the primary factor for hiring something and using it as a counterpoint to an argument where qualifications aren't necessarily the primary factor.
MiniD
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but what about the Polynesian HBs?
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you guys seem to be saying that there are differences between black and white people.... next you will be advocating the bell curve or saying that blacks make lousy quarterbacks or saying that blacks can't swim well... or
lazs
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If I'm bringing up funkypant's "only by neputism" job... I should also mention how I got mine...
I had all the qualifications to do what I am doing now, but did not have a degree. That means I could not get through the door to be interviewed. A friend from the National Guard said she could turn my resume in to Intel in the department where she worked. She thought I'd fit in just fine. She personally handed the resume to the manager and explained why I'd fit in. I was hired a month later.
It's not always about qualifications. It is also about preference, friendship, neputism, indebtedness and so forth. Job hiring is not primarily equality based nor is it fair. If I hadn't known someone "inside", I would never have been interviewed.
Now... I read a thread where an area that is clearly dominated by black atheletes is being compared to a front office where the population is primarily white. Do you really know what you're saying there funkypants? You're saying that the front office is priamarily white because everyone is clearly that much better than blacks at their jobs. You're saying that if a team had a prefference of an equally skilled white running back and black runningback, they'd most likely chose the black running back because he's black. That comparison does not exist. If it did, the white runningback would be playing... that I guarantee.
MiniD
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Just fine for who? If the league had not been so chicken**it about the "negro question" Jackie Robinson might still be alive today. Maybe we'd have had more minority representation in management much sooner.
Maybe Little Rock would have integrated eventually without the Supreme Court, but it was still the right thing to do.
When will black america start moving forward instead of holding on to the wrongs of the past?
Truth is, racism is no longer what it was and that's a good thing...as each generation passes, it will die a slow death.
World without hate? Won't ever happen until the good Lord establishes HIS government on this rock....until then, forgiveness and love towards one another will help alot....and yes, as much as it pains me, even towards the liberals and Europeans(I cannot believe I said that).
Regarding who deserves what, it's simple....the ones who earn it deserve it in this world...black, white, red or green...doesn't matter.
The only thing I'm aware of in this world that is free is God's mercy and grace on my poor hide and the gift of his Son to ALL of us....so have a merry christmas and if possible, give God a thought inbetween the opening of your Christmas booty.
Later:)
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It's not always about qualifications. It is also about preference, friendship, neputism, indebtedness and so forth. Job hiring is not primarily equality based nor is it fair. If I hadn't known someone "inside", I would never have been interviewed.
Exactly the reason AA is still needed. Even though overt racism has been defeated.
Merry Christmas to you too Rude.
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MiniD - I understand what you mean re: our jobs now, no problem.
I actually agree with you that there is more opportunity for unqualified people in the front office than on the field, but I still think the double standard is ironic.
The situation in Detroit was ridiculous. My problem with the NFL system is that it assumes the owners are racist. Which is a racist assumption in itself, a racial stereotype of white people.
I think rules and laws like this may help in the short term, but in the long run they just propagate racism.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Exactly the reason AA is still needed. Even though overt racism has been defeated.
Merry Christmas to you too Rude.
Are you implying that MiniD's hiring was covertly racist?
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Originally posted by Mini D
Wasn't a dig funkypants...
Just a reality check. I'm not knocking your qualifications for your job, but you'd have to question the decision behind your hiring... right? Was everyone else fairly evaluated and weighed against you? Did you have an "in" because of neputism?
This thread is just odd funkypants. You're pointing to an area where qualifications are clearly the primary factor for hiring something and using it as a counterpoint to an argument where qualifications aren't necessarily the primary factor.
MiniD
Now you have a problem with an owner hiring his children? You think we are required by law to staff our businesses by some social agenda?
If I hire my children rather than searching for hires outside of my family, guess who will pay for that decision? Me. It's none of your business who I hire and who I do not within my own family business.
Outside of that, hiring practices when publicly seeking personnel are required by law to be fair and blind eyed to race, color and religious preference.
I hire who performs....if their black and they are dead weight, their gone....same if their white, green or purple. Affirmative action is a joke....earn your position...if you're denied unfairly, take it to court.
This country has gotten crazy the past 25 years and it will probably get worse as liberals tell us how unfair life is....let's find that utopia boys.....sheesh.
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Yes,
It is an established fact that good looking people are hired over the ugly every time.. regardless of qualifications. Luckily he had friends.
:cool:
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point being... mini got hired because he had a friend not because he was white. AA simply make sure that black and white are never friends.... AA makes me believe that whenever I see a black person in a position of authority that.... he or she is unqualified. AA seems to advocate that if enough blacks are in high positions that they will hire black buddies and everything will even out.... it assumes that whites hire whites because they are buddies because of skin color.
Whites are buiddies with whites because they are living under the same conditions as one another. AA makes sure that allways will exist.... Us against them. They take away from us. doesn't matter what side you are on.
If I am given less opportunity because of some AA actoin then I will be resentful.
lazs
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Where did I say neputism is a bad thing rude? Wow... talk about being defensive.
When you look at the factors involved with hiring people, qualifications are down on the list. Most at the top of the list are intangeables. Being on the inside looking out is not the same perspective as being on the outside looking in. Someone screaming that hiring practices are not fair is going to be more correct than someone screaming they are.
When the corperation is a public company, this becomes increasingly relevant, since the public is all creeds and colors. To give the impression that you are completely willing to ignore someone based on creed or color is to affect public oppinion.
MiniD
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I actually agree with you that there is more opportunity for unqualified people in the front office than on the field, but I still think the double standard is ironic.
Then you don't really agree with me funkypants.
There is a difference in hiring in spite of race as opposed to not hiring because of it. You simply cannot compare the two. There is no irony.
And my hiring wasn't covertly racist... MT wasn't aluding to that. He was aluding to the simple fact that who you know can get you in the door over qualifications. I was not officially qualified for my job, but still got in. It had to do with who I knew. The problem is, that hiring exclusively on that philosophy will result in something akin to the "good ol boys network". Those that make the right friends get the right jobs. Those that can't, don't. There's nothing wrong with it until you're one of the guys that "can't" for no real reason other than apearance.
MiniD
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Worked for Baseball for almost 100 years.
Sports Illustrated had a big article last week pointing out the MLB integrated before the NFL. It was interesting that pro football started out integrated, but later the team owners refused to employ blacks.
What a loss, what a shame. :(
curly
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Al Davis did more to integrate the NFL than any other single individual.
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Where's John Riggins when you need him?
:)
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Touchdown Tommy Vardell :D
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How come Dallas or San Fran were not fined? What they did was worse. They paraded minority candidates in the door and hired "their" guy anyway. Was there any doubt ole Tuna wouldn't be hired in Dallas. Where the hell did SF come up with Erickson? He wasn't even on the list.
The Bears are probably up for a coach this offseason. I'm hoping for Denny Green. I can't think of any other coach out there now that could do better in Chicago. What if they only interview him, Blache, and say... Singletary (currently LB coach for Baltimore). Is that racist?
This whole situation would be better handled by the NFL if they just exerted (quiet) pressure on the teams to bring in qualified minority candidates for all openings (interviews) and did not force teams to parade in "tokens".
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It just a matter of time before the only white thing left in professional sports will be the field markings, and righlty so since it's a product driven market.
That reminds me of a joke from the PJ's:
What do you usually find behind a strong black athlete, a slower white one.
Gee Laz must be having a fit. :rofl
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No torque... I am not. I figured it out pretty quickly with my short excurssion into boxing. they got harder heads cause they got denser bones... I seen it when I went swimming. Then NASA did a study and... black people have denser bones duh! I don't watch sports in any case.
but... every race has it's plus's and minus's. To pretend otherwise is to bet on the black swimmer or quarterback or hockey player or the white heavyweight or runner or basketball player.
I have given up on trying to teach black people I know how to shoot or drive.
lazs
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Anyone mention Mike Alstot yet?:D
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Alstot is a fullback... not a halfback.
MiniD
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zackly
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Is Al Davis considering a lawsuit because the league discriminates against teams with white QBs?
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They got affirmative action for quarterbacks now? you guys are just kiddin ol lazs right?
lazs
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lazs needs to stop speaking of himself in 3rd person.
MiniD
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Capt. Funkypants agrees.
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It could be a Mexican dominated sport in the future too... think about that...;)