Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wlfgng on December 23, 2003, 04:41:18 PM
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&e=2&u=/nm/20031223/bs_nm/food_disease_madcow_dc
Source: U.S. Investigates Suspected Mad Cow Case
By Randy Fabi
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A suspected case of mad cow disease is being investigated in Washington state, a U.S. farm industry source said on Tuesday.
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Will definatly be Canadas fault.
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I blame Bush.
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It's probably just Rosie going off her meds again.
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I thaught human females only got mad cow disease. Isnt this also referred to as PMS?
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This is actually a very big story that is starting small.
Wait till Europe and Japan ban all imports of US beef tomorrow. And of course Canada should also ban all imports just like the US did in May.
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i hope this isnt true, BSI is a terrible disease.
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If you dont eat yer meat, you cant have any pudding....
How can you have any pudding if you dont eat yer meat?
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So far it is only suspected.
In Finland theres been like 2 or 3 suspected cases but turned out negative in further tests.
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Originally posted by Yeager
If you dont eat yer meat, you cant have any pudding....
How can you have any pudding if you dont eat yer meat?
Blame Pink for this outbreak
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Hey GScholz what do you and I have in common?
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I blame Bush.
I thought sodomy is illegal in the USA?
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You know having that label under my name makes me feel like I am back in High School standing outside of the principal's door waiting for him to see me and it's between classes and everyone is walking by.
Shudder. Bad memories.
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Both of ya were just being yourselves, I'm sure. :D
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well, the stockmarket was on a roll ........................
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Sell your fast food stocks and buy a chicken producer. I predict chicken consumption is going to go way up.
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Originally posted by GScholz
It's only a matter of time really. BSI isn't really a disease, it's more like a syndrome; it's a protein, not a bacteria or virus. The protein is the result of human meddling in the animals' natural diet etc.
You have any documentation to back this up??
If it were not a contagous situation, why did Britian destroy so may cattle that may have had contact with an infected cow?
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Mav,
Transmission of BSE
There is no evidence that BSE spreads horizontally, i.e., by contact between unrelated adult cattle or from cattle to other species. Some evidence suggests that maternal transmission may occur at an extremely low level. Results of British research show that there is approximately a 9-percent increase in the occurrence of BSE in offspring of BSE-affected dams as compared to calves born to dams where BSE was not detected. The study did not ascertain if this was the result of genetic factors or true transmission. The research did however point out that at this level if maternal transmission does occur it alone will not sustain the epidemic (Wilesmith et al. 1997).
A recently published study found no evidence of disease transmission via embryos collected from cows with BSE. The embryos were collected and handled in accordance with international health standards (Wrethall et. al., 2001).
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/issues/bse/bse-overview.html
-SW
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Wulfe,
The question still remains. If it is non contageous, why destroy the herds? Second question, if it is not transmitable to other species, why the worry about contracting it from eating meat from a "mad cow"?
This just doesn't compute.
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Well... contagious typically means it is capable of propogating through certain types of contact. Blood/open wounds/inhalation/mucus membranes.
I, apparently just like the biologists/doctors/etc, don't know HOW a cow acquires this protein. I guess, through reading that website, that it isn't a disease acquired through the first reasons I stated above.
For humans, and probably whatever else eats a dead cow with BSE - I'm not sure if anyone has studied its effects on other mammals/insects/reptiles. Since its a protein, it is something our body will use and not be destroyed either through stomach acid or our immune system. This would allow it to pass harmlessly into the creature's system that eats the BSE infected cow.
Beyond that, I don't proclaim to be anything beyond an amatuer interest in this disease(?).
-SW
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Originally posted by Maverick
You have any documentation to back this up??
If it were not a contagous situation, why did Britian destroy so may cattle that may have had contact with an infected cow?
er that was foot and mouth, not mad cow......
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Originally posted by Maverick
You have any documentation to back this up??
If it were not a contagous situation, why did Britian destroy so may cattle that may have had contact with an infected cow?
It's caused by a prion. Simplified down - a prion is a protein, rather than a bacteria or virus. It can transmit an otherwise hereditary disease if eaten, injected, or directly implanted by surgery or what all. It a mutated version of a normal protein in the brain that doesn't work correctly and can cause disease.
So it is and isn't contagious.
The destruction of cattle that come in contact with infected cows is down to a few things:
1. They all get fed the same food, so they are all at risk of BSE.
2. Other vectors - such as eating vomit/faeces or what all can feasibly happen. Coupled with the next:
3. Cows are not humans, and will be killed anyway. Humans are easily scared and not too clever about medicine. Farming is a big, industrialized business. Killing them all makes economic sense and is the best PR. (For another eg. - foot & mouth disease - in the past farmers would wait a couple of weeks until the cattle/sheep got better, and butcher the ones the went lame. But nowadays there's more profit to be made by killing the infected to avoid the spread of 2 weeks of unprofitable cows than by waiting til they're over it. NB the diseases/risks are not at all the same thing - this example is merely to illustrate the harsh economics of modern farming).
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Originally posted by Maverick
Wulfe,
The question still remains. If it is non contageous, why destroy the herds? Second question, if it is not transmitable to other species, why the worry about contracting it from eating meat from a "mad cow"?
This just doesn't compute.
The prions that cause the disease can be found in the brain and spinal columns of the infected animals - if this is eaten, either in the form of mechanically rendered meat ( you blow the meat off the skeleton with high pressure hoses) then the goo is made into animal feed or low coast meat products...er like cheap sausages or patties etc then it can be transferred to either the animal or human food chain.
It's a very, very nasty disease and there is no cure. You can't even destroy prions with heat or radiation - they remain active so for instance if you take out the tonsils of someone infected you have to use disposable surgical equipment - as you cannot disinfect it and could contaminate someone else if it were used again.
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How is this disease detected? Standard blood tests or other diagnosis?
I've read it can be up to ten years before a human shows symptoms of MCD, any truth to this? I've been eating UK steaks and burgers for two years now, but I'm told it's one of the best regulated industries now after the outbreaks of a few years ago. If I am infected (US or UK beef - who cares), I figure I've got about eight years or so left. Sounds like ordering your steak well-done isn't the answer either. Heck, I'm thinking of giving up red meat altogether what with all the hormones and what not.
Saw some footage of a human victim of MCD, not very pretty - extreme shakes, looked like partial paralysis although the patient was walking/shuffling across the room - I stopped laughing at mad cow jokes after that.
Thanks for any info. Too lazy to google and it sounds like some of you know a lot about this.
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It is well regulated, that's why they caught it before it hit the food chain.
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What the heck is BSI? ;)
It's BSE: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy - means, that the cows brain will look like a sponge...
A syndrom is a complex of symptoms which can have different causes (e.g. Morbus Cushing=Microadenoma of the hypophysis -vs.- Cushing Syndrom = Hypercortisonism with various etiology)
BSE is clearly a disease - and an infectious one! The infectious agent are indeed prions which is a protein that exists in ALL vertabrae species. That's why the immune system tolerates that false-formed protein. Current research is developing a vaccine for BSE.
In a sick individual that protein is somehow wrongly folded and starts polymerizing thus causing the disease.
(http://www.fw190.info/pics/Folie1.gif)
What caused all the hassle was that BSE shows an alarming similarity to the human Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in pathology as in symptoms. Also scrapie (the sheep form) is being speculated to have transfered to cows - so if interspecial infection is possible why should man be safe? When I started studying in 1996 Dr. Aguzzi told us that human infection from eating beef was not possible - seems like that changed a bit in the last few years.
I refer to Prof.Dr.A.Aguzzi which held some BSE lectures at the university. He is one of the leading prion scientist in Europe (worldwide?).
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In the 1960's in New Guinea, a prion disease took the lives of over 1,100 people.
Called Kuru, (more or less a mad people diesease) it was transmitted thru ritual acts of mortuary cannibalism. In order to honor uncle Fred, Guineas ate a piece of him, passing on the prion.
If we fed beef only vegetable matter, Mad Cow would cease.
When we recycle slaughterhouse stuff in cattle feed, we ask for Prion problems.
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There is another reported case in Canada, Hamilton region and i believe the cow actually has a name , Shelia Copps.:p
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The fear is that this case represents the beginning of an outbreak similar to the previous one in Europe. This is very unlikely. More probable is that this represents a very low "background" rate of infection. About 200,000 cattle are tested each year.
Nevertheless, the economic impact will be significant. The beef industry in Canada was decimated after a single infected cow was detected. This was due to decreased consumption but more significantly due to the regulatory response, as many countries, including the US, banned Canadian beef products.
The beef industry in the US has been on a roll, with historically high cattle prices. In large part this has been due to the ban on Canadian beef export. You can figure that all ended about 12 hours ago.
So although the economic impact will be significant, I think the public health risk is minimal. Your risk of choking to death on a steak is still higher than your risk of getting CJD from a steak.
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Originally posted by Zapata
How is this disease detected? Standard blood tests or other diagnosis?
In cattle, by microscopic examination of brain tissue collected at slaughter.
In human patients, tentative diagnosis is based on the signs and symptoms and excluding other potential diseases. Definitive diagnosis is based on examination of brain tissue, either by biopsy or post-mortem.
I've read it can be up to ten years before a human shows symptoms of MCD, any truth to this?
Yes, the incubation period (time from infection to disease) is years; both in cattle and in people.
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Originally posted by Torque
There is another reported case in Canada, Hamilton region and i believe the cow actually has a name , Shelia Copps.:p
I think she is giving a bad name to those truly affected by Mad Cow disease, I am sure she will blame Paul Martin :D
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Ouch!
This is NOT good news for US Farmers & ranchers.
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Gents,
Thanks much for the info. It brought the scope of the problem into much better focus. It would be nice if they had more info on it particularly on blocking transmission to other cattle and people as well. Nasty stuff, I hope they get a handle on it soon.
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Make sure your beef is safe by testing:
http://viswiz.imk.fraunhofer.de/~steffi/madcow/madcow.htm
One can't be too careful.
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It seems a few US based gloaters might have to eat their words.
But at least that will be safer than eating US beef. Nasty business.
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Ust curious, who do remember as gloating?
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I'm guessing that BBQ in April will cost a little less.
:cool:
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naa
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it's already begun:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&e=1&u=/nm/20031224/bs_nm/madcow_dc
Mad Cow Sparks Beef Bans, Shares Drop
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The fallout from the first case of mad cow disease in the United States widened on Wednesday as more countries banned the import of U.S. beef and cattle and investors sold off shares in restaurants such as McDonald's Corp. that feature beef on their menus.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I'm guessing that BBQ in April will cost a little less.
:cool:
I thought the same but no dice still was $15.00 for a center cut sirlion, maybe burgers were cheap but i dunno.
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I would have to go and search. I don't remember who in particular but it was there. I doubt I'll have time in the next week to bother - it was a long while ago.
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Well, if you actually find one, please post it.
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Ok i see two more cases to report.:rolleyes:
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Another reason to destroy the herds is the usage of animal waste and byproducts to make feed. Yes, cows are cannibals. It's not by their choice, however. Blood and bone meal are ingredients in many feeds designed to boost mass that are given in feedlots.
All I can say is I'm VERY glad I sold my cattle 2 months ago when the market was at an unheardof high price.
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:( I wish your cattle Farmers the best of luck. Neither Canada Nor the US can handle this crud right now.
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MAD COW!!
Ok i give up what is hillary pissed about?
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If you see any politicians or goverment agency employees stating that there's nothing wrong at all and prove it by going on tv eating a hamburger then it's time to worry!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I'm guessing that BBQ in April will cost a little less.
:cool:
W3RD!!!!
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News flash, the cow came from Canada!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3797510/
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thread title reminds me of my ex
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I blame Bush.
come on ... bush may be mad, but he isnt cow, is he ? :D
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Originally posted by Fishu
So far it is only suspected.
In Finland theres been like 2 or 3 suspected cases but turned out negative in further tests.
he hehe
here it was 1 or 2 suspects and then it turned to be many and many of possitve
:D
correct me if im wrong but if human get this illness, there is no cure yet
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Russia, Ukraine, South Africa, Brazil, Mexico, Singapore to South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Macau, and some European EU states have suspended/banned the import of US beef.
The list already includes Japan, Mexico and South Korea - the three top importers of US beef which accounts for 80% of US export beef based on last years export figures.
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something that needs to be noted here.
The only danger to humans is if you eat the brains etc. (IE nervous system products).
There is no danger from "muscle cuts", those cuts that we normally eat. Roasts, steaks etc. For most of us, contracting the disease is a non-issue. The real issue is what this means to the beef producers of the world, and to the populations that do eat brains etc.
In no way am I trying to diminish the impacts BSI is having, just want people to understand that the chances of you or your family contracting this disease are practically nil.
RTR
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Originally posted by RTR
something that needs to be noted here.
The only danger to humans is if you eat the brains etc. (IE nervous system products).
There is no danger from "muscle cuts", those cuts that we normally eat. Roasts, steaks etc. For most of us, contracting the disease is a non-issue. The real issue is what this means to the beef producers of the world, and to the populations that do eat brains etc.
In no way am I trying to diminish the impacts BSI is having, just want people to understand that the chances of you or your family contracting this disease are practically nil.
RTR
The problem is preparing the meat. Most meat is infected when the saws/blades cut through the bones (spinal cord) and sprays good meat with the BSE.
True, the chance of contracting BSE/CJD is pretty slim but nevertheless still a risk.
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As long as downers are used in the food chain as freely as they are we are going to be running a huge risk.
If it is so safe, why was a total ban placed on Canadas imports when our case hadn't even made it to the food chain?
Changes still have to be made.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3802544/
{snip}
No mandate for quarantine
But no federal regulation requires a quarantine of meat from questionable animals during testing. The meat can be released into the food supply; meat linked to the the diseased cow discovered in Washington has been traced to at least eight states. While many in the beef industry endorse a test-and-hold process, which would require a quarantine, not all processing facilities withhold the meat during testing. Neither the USDA nor Congress have proposed a requirement for test-and-hold procedures.
{snip}
Meat recovery concerns
Mad cow concerns have also prompted renewed focus on an industry technique known as advanced meat recovery, in which machines are used to scrape or shave muscle tissue away from cattle bones, including the head and vertebrae.
The process, which accounts for an estimated $150 million in revenue, has caused worry among regulators and safety advocates because of the recovered meat sits so close to neural tissue -- a cow's brain or spinal cord -- where the deformed proteins, or prions, that cause mad cow disease can be found.
A 2002 survey of producers using AMR techniques found that one in three meat samples was infected with neural tissue, notably bits of spinal cord. The industry disputes that figure, and the government began a more stringent inspection program this year. USDA has yet to issue new data, but the recent data actually shows an improvement from earlier in 2002, when three of every four AMR samples showed traces of contamination.
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Originally posted by RTR
The only danger to humans is if you eat the brains etc. (IE nervous system products).
There is no danger from "muscle cuts", those cuts that we normally eat. Roasts, steaks etc. For most of us, contracting the disease is a non-issue. The real issue is what this means to the beef producers of the world, and to the populations that do eat brains etc.
In no way am I trying to diminish the impacts BSI is having, just want people to understand that the chances of you or your family contracting this disease are practically nil.
RTR
There is no scientific proof to that claim.
Check out what Prusiner (nobel prize for his work on Prions -agent causing mad cow disease) says about muscle cuts.
He might have biased interests (trying to have his testkit applied on all processed cattle) but still, there are absolutely no conclusive proofs regarding safety of muscle cuts from diseased animals.
Only experiments so far involve injecting little ammounts of muscle into rats brain, which do not produce the disease (little ammount of infected brain does), but still, its 1 animal model and concentrations etc etc can be all wrong.
Plus you have the processing issue.
Think of this as a matter of concentrations and chronicity of ingest.
Normally, CJ disease would appear on very old people, where proteins mutated naturally.
When cows get feed older cows/older animals brains, they increase the chance to adquire that mutated protein early on.
Same with humans. If they eat infected brains weekly, shortly they ll most probably suffer from it.
What if muscle cuts do have even tiny ammounts of the mutated protein? its chronic ingest might or might not produce the disease, but that is absolutely not proven yet.
What US administration is saying regarding muscle cuts has no actual/current solid scientific base at all.
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(http://enquirer.com/editions/2002/09/27/colonel_zoom.jpg)
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Actually I read that the cow was slaughtered and made it into the food chain already. Watch those steaks now!
I see lots of countries have banned American beef. Seems a bit of an over reaction. One cow hardly makes an epidemic.
To put it in context. Here in Ireland ONLY 150 cases of BSE were detected in cows this year. God knows how many were detected in Britain in the same period. That sounds awful but in fact these are all older cattle and safeguards are in place to prevent them finding their way into the food chain which as you can see is not true in the US yet.
On another point, here in Ireland anyone who has lived for a certain period in Britain is not allowed to give blood due to worries about passing on CJD. This applies to two of my sisters and my brother. But they haven't started to act funny yet!
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well question is if is BSE test in US mandotory or not.
They made public first case. Nobody know how many of their cows is infected. In fact, that infected cow was in US for a 6 years it could be may be 2 ;)
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WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE!
Yeah, YOU too!
Trust me on this one......I'm going to be acknowledged as 100% right.
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You're right on that one - but having a CJD related disease at young age and then die is not as funny as it might sound...
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It's a threat, of course. But it needs to be kept in perspective, doesn't it?
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True, I think hysteria is uncalled for but such things offer the opportunity to rethink your style of living. Maybe boosting meat production by feeding them their own wasn't a very good idea after all...
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so it turns out to be a canadian cow? A socialist cow?
lazs
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The USDA has banned the feeding of ruminate protien to ruminate animals since 1997, many of the major players in the beef business have had voluntary rules in place dealing with this issue also. With the age of this cow and the Canadian origin it was a potential risk of getting BSE.
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Cannibals to Cows: The Path of a Deadly Disease (http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3069552&p1=01%7C%7C%7C%7C003)
They've "known" about the link for a long time. Seems cannibalism in a species is not a good thing.. go figure.
Too bad it took this long to wake up to what it really meant.
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Originally posted by lazs2
so it turns out to be a canadian cow? A socialist cow?
lazs
muhehee ... its terrorist cow you know ? :P
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Originally posted by Toad
Cannibals to Cows: The Path of a Deadly Disease (http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3069552&p1=01%7C%7C%7C%7C003)
They've "known" about the link for a long time. Seems cannibalism in a species is not a good thing.. go figure.
Too bad it took this long to wake up to what it really meant.
well Toad and now put here some information about economical point of view on 'canibalism'
it could tell us more about reasons