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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bj229r on December 25, 2003, 07:22:25 PM

Title: radiators
Post by: bj229r on December 25, 2003, 07:22:25 PM
Given that radiator is like 1/20 the size of gas tank, WHY DOES radiator always take the round---4 of 5 such things...radiator takes hit, not the heap-much larger gas tank---even from 6 shots
Title: radiators
Post by: Sway on December 25, 2003, 07:33:44 PM
Just be glad you had a radiator to begin with.  :p
Title: radiators
Post by: FDutchmn on December 25, 2003, 09:48:41 PM
ahh... cuz most planes had self-sealing fuel tanks which when punctured is not considered damage on AH modelling??  just a guess...:D
Title: radiators
Post by: GScholz on December 26, 2003, 01:21:56 AM
Dutch is right. Most components can stand several hits from machineguns and keep on going, one round in the radiator however and it's shot (no pun intended ;)).
Title: radiators
Post by: B17Skull12 on December 26, 2003, 01:57:22 AM
golly last time i lost radiator was over a month ago.
Title: radiators
Post by: Steve on December 26, 2003, 02:11:49 AM
Skull, get in a fight now and then... you'll see what is being discussed


:)
Title: Re: radiators
Post by: dedalos on December 26, 2003, 08:29:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
Given that radiator is like 1/20 the size of gas tank, WHY DOES radiator always take the round---4 of 5 such things...radiator takes hit, not the heap-much larger gas tank---even from 6 shots


And why dows a single ping from your six at d800 always takes out the radiator or the oil?  No it is not anoing at all:D
Title: radiators
Post by: Ghosth on December 26, 2003, 09:48:09 AM
Guys, you have a car right? if  I shoot a .22 at the front of your car I will hit your radiator. You will be pulled over to the side of the road in a cloud of steam eventually. Depending on how big a hole it makes and how fast your driving.

Radiators are mostly  built of soft copper & brass.They rip, tear, and make quite a hole when shot by even a small bullet.  I shudder to think what a .50 cal would do to one.

Now lets take it one step further, instead of being mounted IN your car, its hung below it in a air scoup. Well airscoups woulld also scoup bullets.
Also as SOON as there is an airpocket above the outflow hose, you won't get any more cooling water to the engine. Because the water has to go UP to get to the engine. As soon as there is a leak it won't siphon.

Where in your care the hoses are at the bottom of the radiator to feed that engine water as long as possible.

There is no way to armour plate a radiator & still have it work. Same for self sealing. Thats why raidial engines are SO much more dependable at Air to ground attack.

No radiator to take a single bullet or shrapnel hit & bring you down.
Title: radiators
Post by: dedalos on December 26, 2003, 10:33:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ghosth
Guys, you have a car right? if  I shoot a .22 at the front of your car I will hit your radiator. You will be pulled over to the side of the road in a cloud of steam eventually. Depending on how big a hole it makes and how fast your driving.

Radiators are mostly  built of soft copper & brass.They rip, tear, and make quite a hole when shot by even a small bullet.  I shudder to think what a .50 cal would do to one.

Now lets take it one step further, instead of being mounted IN your car, its hung below it in a air scoup. Well airscoups woulld also scoup bullets.
Also as SOON as there is an airpocket above the outflow hose, you won't get any more cooling water to the engine. Because the water has to go UP to get to the engine. As soon as there is a leak it won't siphon.

Where in your care the hoses are at the bottom of the radiator to feed that engine water as long as possible.

There is no way to armour plate a radiator & still have it work. Same for self sealing. Thats why raidial engines are SO much more dependable at Air to ground attack.

No radiator to take a single bullet or shrapnel hit & bring you down.


I understand that a radiator is very easy to take out.  The problem I have is the following and I am going to use your car example to explain.  If you shoot from d800 with any kind of gun at my car then the following could happen:
If you shoot from the front and only hit me once, you may hit the radiator, or the engine, or some other part, or the driver, or even nothing.
Now if you shoot from behind or the sides and only hit my car once, odds are that you will not get the radiator every single time. Sometimes mabe, but not every time.  That is all we are saing.  I wasnt the plane to go down once the radiator is hit ( thats the only way I can kill YAKs, but I don;t want the radiator to get hit every single time somebody gets a single .303 ping on my plane.
Title: radiators
Post by: Kweassa on December 26, 2003, 02:06:05 PM
Quote
odds are that you will not get the radiator every single time. Sometimes mabe, but not every time.


 And isn't that just how it exactly is in AH?

 I know it always feels first pings kill radiators. But that's a feel. Anybody actually pick up a notebook and record their damage tendencies for a length of 6 months or something?

 Maybe it always feels like that because when the enemy is close enough to shoot off some other part, you'll probably die first... and when the enemy is far away, the chances are his spraying bullets will cause some real damage to radiator parts which are weak, but bounce off from other, harder surfaces.. who knows?
Title: radiators
Post by: Estes on December 26, 2003, 02:19:31 PM
Seems like I always lose my pilot, never fails. :)

Come to think of it, I haven't lost my radiator in a long time.
I fly DA alot of the time, and probably more than half the time I lose something like elevator, aileron or just wing-wingtip.

If I do take a hit like that, it's always my engine just goes poof.

Maybe SOB has been pissing in my gas tanks again?
Title: radiators
Post by: Arlo on December 26, 2003, 03:53:29 PM
I've been very fortunate. Not one single engagement has broken the Jack Daniels bottle next to the seat.
Title: radiators
Post by: Estes on December 26, 2003, 04:01:33 PM
pffft, hog driver.

Well, I guess it's better than if you said vodka bottle. :)
Title: radiators
Post by: Arlo on December 26, 2003, 04:03:34 PM
Or a P-51 Koolaid sippy cup. Or a George Sailor Moon lunchbox. :lol
Title: radiators
Post by: zmeg on December 26, 2003, 04:05:38 PM
You should also take into consideration that any hit near the radiator will couse debris to go into the radiator.
Title: radiators
Post by: Pooh21 on December 26, 2003, 04:44:47 PM
Spitfires Strawberry Surpise Wine Cooler

Remember in AH if your running from someone he'll ping your radiator. If your in a p38, the spit wll hit a flap, Need to scisscors in 190/Hog he'll ping an aileron, Turning with a nik in a hurri ack will ping the elevator, With pilot wound you'll always black out with a shooting solution,  1st time I figured that out held down trigger and pasted a guy while blacked out
Title: radiators
Post by: bj229r on December 26, 2003, 09:08:23 PM
LOL Pooh21, i think you have figured it out
Title: radiators
Post by: J_A_B on December 26, 2003, 10:24:58 PM
BJ229r--

Are you having the radiator hits in the ground vehicles, or in one of the planes you've been flying?

In particular, I notice that you've been flying the 190D9 a lot lately, which IIRC has in the past recieved a lot of complaints as to the odd vulnerability of its radiator (same goes for the Typhoon, but you don't seem to fly that one too much).


Obviously, i don't think you're having radiator troubles in the F4U's or P-47's  :)


J_A_B
Title: radiators
Post by: simshell on December 26, 2003, 10:38:59 PM
if you want to no what makes me madd

1 night im flying nothing but jug P47D-25


i got 3 pliot wounds in 5 flights

and 2 of those were from  behide the cockpit:mad:
Title: radiators
Post by: bj229r on December 27, 2003, 10:42:33 PM
Roger that J_A_B, the D9, and the ONLY other plane I ever fly that HAS a radiator is the tiff....with similar results---as for the REST of you guys...you are ALL fediddlein up a good whine!



















































j-
Title: radiators
Post by: bj229r on December 28, 2003, 10:06:19 PM
ok..saturday night...3 D9 runs ina row...3 shot-up radiators--NO other damage (One from a 700 6 shot)--landed 2
Title: radiators
Post by: dedalos on December 29, 2003, 09:43:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
And isn't that just how it exactly is in AH?

 I know it always feels first pings kill radiators. But that's a feel. Anybody actually pick up a notebook and record their damage tendencies for a length of 6 months or something?

 Maybe it always feels like that because when the enemy is close enough to shoot off some other part, you'll probably die first... and when the enemy is far away, the chances are his spraying bullets will cause some real damage to radiator parts which are weak, but bounce off from other, harder surfaces.. who knows?


You know, now that I think about it, it does seem to happen to me almost always if I am in YAK.  What I am really compaining about is that single ping from d800 on my six.
Title: radiators
Post by: MetaTron on December 29, 2003, 02:01:25 PM
Radiator systems in WWII aircraft should be disabled if any portion of the cooling system is hit by even a single .30cal round. In that period cooling systems were usually rather complex, in order to decrease drag (for instance). Yes, coolant is piped through portions of the plane from nose to midsection, which increases the likelihood of strikes from the rear.

Aircraft like the 109g10 are specifically desinged to reduce profile on the radiator from the front, therefore reducing the probability. Still the likelihood exists even in that plane. A Yaks cooling system is very high profile and should be hit easily. While it's not similar to the P51 it should suffer the same woes as the pony given its exposure.

HT has stated nothing is random (IIRC), so doesn't that mean if your rad is hit it's because that's what got hit?
Title: radiators
Post by: Steve on December 29, 2003, 02:34:25 PM
I've always wondered about those long 6 shots that ding my radiator (in a pony).  I just came to assume that there is some portion of the cooling system that is in the scoop under the plane, and thus "hittable" from the rear. Without this presumption, I might find this perplexing.
Title: radiators
Post by: dedalos on December 29, 2003, 04:25:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
I've always wondered about those long 6 shots that ding my radiator (in a pony).  I just came to assume that there is some portion of the cooling system that is in the scoop under the plane, and thus "hittable" from the rear. Without this presumption, I might find this perplexing.


I can make this even better Steve.  One time I took your 51 out from D900.  I think I cut it in half with a single (looked to me) ping from an FM2 right after you took my radiator out :D
I am sure there is a good explanation for that too
Title: radiators
Post by: bj229r on December 29, 2003, 05:19:03 PM
Does HT even MODEL such things? like...if ya get hit on 6, most likely damage is somethin in back of plane? It would seem that ANY hit on plane in any spot brings totally random results
Title: radiators
Post by: Steve on December 29, 2003, 06:07:18 PM
FM2's have radiators?

D900!!   See, now I'm perplexed.    hehehehehe
Title: radiators
Post by: dedalos on December 30, 2003, 09:37:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
FM2's have radiators?

D900!!   See, now I'm perplexed.    hehehehehe


You know what I mean.  You made fast pass from my high six.  I never saw you until ufter you cut a few parts of my plane of.  In my panic, I pulled the nose up and there was a 51 pulling away fast.  I was going to go down so even though you were at D900, I pulled the triger.  I saw one ping and the 51 broke in two pieces.


Maybe I hit its radiator casing to explode? :lol
Title: radiators
Post by: Kweassa on December 30, 2003, 06:12:03 PM
Quote
Does HT even MODEL such things? like...if ya get hit on 6, most likely damage is somethin in back of plane? It would seem that ANY hit on plane in any spot brings totally random results


 Not really sure how the DM is done in AH... I don't think anyone is. For instance, I've never lost a single horizontal stab - always both of them. As much, I've never shot off single h-stabs.. even when I see pings in only one side, both of them fall off.. can't imagine why.

 Now, Forgotten Battles, models such things. It's really interesting, and the damage levels have become various and consistent with the latest version of the game.

 Just last night, I met a Bf109F-4 in a Yak-1, thought I could overshoot him, but failed. He landed consecutive hits on me, but the structure held on, and the enemy went away seeing another plane coming to him.

 Now, I thought I was cool, and could make it home.. but I realized that the throttle system was damaged, and I couldn't adjust power.. I was stuck at low power too, since trying to overshoot him. What made it worse, was the engine kept losting power and I did not why! :D My guess was the throttle quadrant was damaged and made adjusting power impossible. I wasn't leaking anything so it probably wasn't any fluid leaking, but maybe some cylynders were damaged and inactive.

 Wrestled the plane to a ground landing.. it was a terrific experience, and felt lucky to be alive.

 Wish AH2 had more complex DM as such...
Title: radiators
Post by: Mugzeee on January 27, 2004, 05:25:28 PM
I have been shot from every angle you can be shot from, while flying a FW190-d9.
This plane will take radiator damage most every time!  LOL
I think its a little unreal.
But then again...I never flew a fighter in WW11. :D
Title: radiators
Post by: Mugzeee on January 27, 2004, 05:29:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ghosth
Now lets take it one step further, instead of being mounted IN your car, its hung below it in a air scoup. Well airscoups woulld also scoup bullets.
Also as SOON as there is an airpocket above the outflow hose, you won't get any more cooling water to the engine. Because the water has to go UP to get to the engine. As soon as there is a leak it won't siphon


If im not mistaken...the Radiator in the FW190's is located in the FRONT Cowling. Thats why its looks like its a Radial Engine.
No?
Title: radiators
Post by: bj229r on January 27, 2004, 09:02:40 PM
As I can tell, roughly 75% of the time a in a D9, when ya hear a loud CLUNK...look back for the gray smoke
Title: radiators
Post by: VWE on January 28, 2004, 01:56:54 PM
The only thing as frequent as a radiator hit is a frinkin pilot wound! :p  If your chasing a Typhoon and you hit its wingtip or tail feathers chances are you'll take out its radiator... that whole thing is a flying radiator! :D
Title: radiators
Post by: bockko on January 28, 2004, 09:41:48 PM
bockk in a spitty, goading a squaddie to take out ack:
"go in and shoot out ack"
Dratly: "i dunno about that, you go"
bockk: "I can't, i have a radiator"


curse them in-lines!