Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zanth on December 26, 2003, 03:12:50 AM
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Dear HTC:
I remember from the very beginning earliest days flying your game. I hated it. I went to Warbirds for a long while, I tried your game again here and there until finally - boom!@ hey this is cool!. I have enjoyed very much Ace High, probably too much if you ask any one else around me in real life.
I am worried though. And many are not sure where the impetus for AH2 came from in the first place. A good number of us are pretty happy with the AH world "as is" and I dare say, to a man, we are more impressed, and were looking forward to, aircraft additions. I am probably wrong, but I bet you a pile more people are more concerned with when will we have a KI-84 or a P-61 than how many leaves the next tree has.
AH2 is the future, no doubt. It looks promising, it looks wonderfull. Frankly though, who asked for it? On the develpoment side I imagine it is real easy to get bored, but please look outside for a moment and appreciate what you already have.
Respectfully,
Bill Coggin
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I would have preferred for AH1 to continue developing (it still had a long ways to go imo. Alot of growth potentiol remained).
I will check out AH2 once it officially replaces AH1 out of pure curiosity but I quit paying a while back. Too much time elapsed without any updates.
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Not about boredom....it's about cashflow.
Dale will finish this as he has other projects and like anything else, you will have a choice as to where your money goes.
Kinda simple eh?
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Yup, cash flow. It’s about getting that other game player on line, the box guy. The one that has to have the mission, the rank, the organization.
Not to mention an update to the graphics to stay competitive.
We got spoiled from the beginning with short development efforts and release dates. I’m not a beta guy but I miss the constant updates as well.
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Zanth makes a strong point.
I'm also a big fan of AH1. Time will tell how many will move over to AH2 and TOD when it clears beta. No doubt, a large contingent of present players will wish to remain where they are now. My guess is, those who've been around the AH skies for more than a year, realize the time commitments HTC has made towards the development and release of AH2...and for that reason have been patient about the lack of attention AH1's received in the past few months.
My question is whether HTC can handle co-development of both sides of the game. No doubt Dale believes AH2 will improve cash-flow, and with that the ability to bring more talent on board to HTC. Time will tell.
One of the greatest things about AH, was the constant tweaking it got. I can only hope that continues to be the case once AH2 rolls out of the hangar.
DmdMax
The Damned
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Originally posted by DMax
I'm also a big fan of AH1. Time will tell how many will move over to AH2 and TOD when it clears beta.
When AH2 clears beta, AH1 goes away..... :)
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I tend to agree with this open letter. Seeing new planes added, new models of current planes, additional GVs, etc interests me far more than the new GE in AH2 complete with a totally irritating, unworkable, worthless, despicable Clipboard that violates RULE 1 of Interface Design.
The damn thing should be opening to the right if it even should open at all. Obviously HiTech is developing this thing on a monstrously huge monitor at obscene resolution or he would realize just how badly that Clipboard sucks.
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So AH1 is for sure gone when AH2 rolls around?:confused:
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Yes..... its been stated many times. When AH2 goes 'live' (reaches v 2.0), AH1 will cease to exist.
[edit]Most recently in this thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103287) in fact [/edit]
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hmmmm... :mad:
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There will still be a main arena just like we have now with the addition of the TOD arena, the game will change visually but you will not be forced to play their way the choice will still be yours.
Main Arena or Tour Of Duty and I believe CT and the Sea will still be available. (not 100% on the last 2)
JustJim1
<< Dragon Hawks >>
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Yep, as I understand it, AH2:Classic will simply be an update to AH1, with all the current arenas, and with the TOD as an extra option following later.... ;)
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And woe be to those who flew AH at or close to min specs. Some will upgrade. Some will try the "new deal" over at "whassiface's WWII air combat sim."
I'm all for improvement and kudos for HTC tweaking the eye candy and adding some terrain features that'll make both ground to ground and air to ground combat more challenging. BUT ... at this point HT and company need to hit the ground running and see about modeling some of the aircraft needed to fill some already present gaps as well as perhaps two or three of the most requested models (dear COD don't make it the B-29 and the "Black Widow" ..... please!) not to mention getting the TOD beta ready to test asap.
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Good, as long as I can still get jump by hordes of N1k's and La7's.:rolleyes: :D
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anyone still playing on a 486 with 16 mb ram and 4 mb video ?
I thought not upgrading is a part of the PC evolution, you wanna play the cool stuff ya gotta get cooler stuff.
I hate it as well but it's not only this game requiring better PC's
with every new game there is a new generation of PC's needed to play them, its a conspiracy I tell ya.
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I definitely understand upgrades required as time goes on. But does any know if there will be options to turn off some of the eye candy? I tend to live in an area where there is know option but one source of ISP with only dialup. I know there's others in the same position as me and it would be nice to be able to turn off some of it to aid in frame rates.
Don't remember anything being mentioned about whether items can be turned off or toned done. Would anyone happen to know?
Thx
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Originally posted by JustJim
anyone still playing on a 466 with 16 mb ram and 4 mb video ?
I thought not upgrading is a part of the PC evolution, you wanna play the cool stuff ya gotta get cooler stuff.
I hate it as well but it's not only this game requiring better PC's
with every new game there is a new generation of PC's needed to play them, its a conspiracy I tell ya.
Ahhh .... but there you're just plain wrong. You've bought into the "picture perfect neccessity" schlock lock stock and barrel. Tell, me .... does the image on your screen need to be digital quality in every detail for you to attain immersion? If so you must have little, if any, imagination. And truly it'll never be enough until you manage to find a way to teleport back in time and get yourself into one of the service flight schools.
The "gotta have my eye candy" crowd is basically a crowd of duped individuals.
AH ... as is ... has the engine and capability to be much more than it is already. It doesn't take revamping the graphics and causing the entire community to double their sys specs. And three or four years later doing it again. People will naturally upgrade their systems as their previous ones wear out. We don't need a shove to do that.
Instead .... devote the resources to modeling more aircraft. Cover all the theaters of combat more thoroughly. Add some more historical terrain and do what it takes to address whatever glitches arise. Tweak the user interface.
Don't jump on the snowballing software/hardware vicious circle if you don't have to and your community will tend to be more stable in the long-run.
You doubt? Do some checking around. See how many players of various games ... who were perfectly happy with those games ... soon found themselves either forced to move on or spent the money to upgrade time and again for what, in their opinion, was an too little improvement to warrant the constant upgrades. See how many who WERE eye-candy freaks became either disillusioned by it all or were insatiable in their unrealistic goals and moved on to something else they thought fulfilled them ... and moved on again.
That being said, many of us are upgrading to keep up with AH based on our current enjoyment of it. But it's still to be seen if the changes will both benefit the game and the community to such an extent as to enhance it's potential or if putting the cart before the horse will prove a liability.
Hell ... just look at the disappointment some express already at some of the graphics in the beta? I think they're fine. I think it was already fine. But those who are so overcome by their desire for a "picture perfect" world will probably never be happy until they're in the "matrix." Then they'll die of thirst there and we'll be free of them forever. ;)
Sure .... two or three years of all programming resources being devoted to rivets, trees and barns may well cause a season or two of "oooohs and ahhhhhs" .... but the same time devoted to giving the players more planes to fly and fixing any problems with the ones we have will keep the game more of a step ahead of it's competitors than the eye candy will. And if other gamey games keep up the pixel polishing trend ... AH will get players from them instead of what some believe to be the opposite trend.
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Ew.. I agree with Tardlo. Damn. Gotta go take a shower, brb.
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I don't agree. I quit AH because I didn't feel any magic flying it. Fighting hordes of LA7s/Spits is somewhat ok, but the graphics look sooooooooooooooooooooo last millenium that I couldn't cope with them anymore.
AH2 is still far from today standards and I fear it will not be enought for me. I enjoy Forgotten Battle, I play over there online only in the coop missions (DAs borre me).
I like the feel of flying in FB, the engine management, the graphics, the details, the gunery.
I have many friends in AH and I had the best time flying it since the beta days, but the dynosaurish look ... ewwww ... I guess it's the end of an era :)
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Originally posted by Flossy
Yep, as I understand it, AH2:Classic will simply be an update to AH1, with all the current arenas, and with the TOD as an extra option following later.... ;)
Sorry Flossy,
Do you mean that AH2 v 2.0 will not have ToD? :eek:
So are we going to get AH1 with new graphics engine only (and FM), without new gameplay feachers?
Will the planeset include all the planes of AH1 in AH 2.0?
Oh........ HTC please do not make the mistake iEN have done....
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Originally posted by MwKAZ
I definitely understand upgrades required as time goes on. But does any know if there will be options to turn off some of the eye candy? I tend to live in an area where there is know option but one source of ISP with only dialup. I know there's others in the same position as me and it would be nice to be able to turn off some of it to aid in frame rates.
Don't remember anything being mentioned about whether items can be turned off or toned done. Would anyone happen to know?
The 'eye candy' all happens on your end; it doesn't matter how fast your connection is, you'll still have the same rendering that you do now. All your connection with the host contains are data on the position, ID, and vector of each visible vehicle, and annotations about destroyed ground objects; your FE handles all of the rendering with the data already on your hard drive. If you are having frame-rate problems with the graphic detail, that is a problem with your system, not with your connection.
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Originally posted by MwKAZ
I definitely understand upgrades required as time goes on. But does any know if there will be options to turn off some of the eye candy? I tend to live in an area where there is know option but one source of ISP with only dialup. I know there's others in the same position as me and it would be nice to be able to turn off some of it to aid in frame rates.
Don't remember anything being mentioned about whether items can be turned off or toned done. Would anyone happen to know?
Thx
There is the abiity to adjust the video settings as far as quality.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_147_1071910930.jpg)
and Arlo I infact dont really care about the graphics part of the game I tend to like it how it is myself.
although i'm not going to fight natural progression of a game to suit my needs, I have a big thing with damage modeling aka (bullchit shots) that is my hopes for the next generation of AH, we all have out likes and dislikes and as some have mentioned AH graphics will still be somewhat behind what is mainstream today.
but do you see todays mainstream games with the ability to have 500+ people playing in one arena with a very decent FM all for a 50 mb file ? no you dont.
for the last 6 months at least alot of people have been asking for an upgraded AH and now its kinda here still in the works mind you but its still here and no matter what the staff at HTC do they will never be able to please all of the people all of the time.
I'm pretty confident that the final version of AH2 will be as wonderful as AH1 is now in quality just improved, as with the introduction of AH1 it took time before it became the game it is today I have no reason to believe that AH2 will be a lesser game than we have now.
I look forward to the released result and to the improvements made following it's release, as I was just a bystander at a friends house with the initial birth of AH, i'm excited to be a part of the second generation and watching it grow.
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Originally posted by JustJim
although i'm not going to fight natural progression of a game to suit my needs,
but do you see todays mainstream games with the ability to have 500+ people playing in one arena with a very decent FM all for a 50 mb file ? no you dont.
for the last 6 months at least alot of people have been asking for an upgraded AH and now its kinda here still in the works mind you but its still here and no matter what the staff at HTC do they will never be able to please all of the people all of the time.
But it's not a "natural progression" at all. It's forced digression. If the nature of this game was to eventually present picture perfect screenshots for people to sit back and admire then it would be it's natural progression. If the nature of the game is to be the best online massively multiplayer WWII air combat sim (or game - take your pick) that can be played by a larger cross section of potential internet sim addicts ... then stopping to tweak the picture so we can count the rivits on our planes is actually kind of antithesis to what the primary concern of the programmers and developers SHOULD be.
I'm not trying to fight anything. If I were I would have protested the hell out of AHII's development from day one. I'm just talking common sense. Therefore I'm not gonna be the cheerleader for uneccesary graphic enhancements requiring endless hardware upgrades for no real purpose other than the game revolving around digital quality first person pov interactive movies, either.
Now TOD sounds possibly interesting and more along the lines of at least attempting to enhance game play to provide a more immersive enviroment for us to enjoy. I dunno if it'll work the way I hope it will but it's closer than just polishing pixels. Even then, it'll need more planes and terrains.
I don't want HTC to try to please all of the customers or potential customers all of the time. I want them not to worry so much about the few who cry about how ugly it looks and constant whines over giving it a makeover (that will never subside) when in fact, it's fine as it is. Having a game that can be played by a larger cross-section of the internet community is never a bad thing.
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
I don't agree. I quit AH because I didn't feel any magic flying it. Fighting hordes of LA7s/Spits is somewhat ok, but the graphics look sooooooooooooooooooooo last millenium that I couldn't cope with them anymore.
AH2 is still far from today standards and I fear it will not be enought for me. I enjoy Forgotten Battle, I play over there online only in the coop missions (DAs borre me).
I like the feel of flying in FB, the engine management, the graphics, the details, the gunery.
I have many friends in AH and I had the best time flying it since the beta days, but the dynosaurish look ... ewwww ... I guess it's the end of an era :)
*ShruG*
Have fun in FB. I doubt it will ever make it to mmp status. If AH continues to succumb to trying to make itself look like other games to please the graphically anal minority amongst the flightsim community ... then THAT will be more of a threat to it's future because it shoves actual GAME enhancement to the back burner.
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Yea, FBs got enough problems with lag and freeze-framing with 16 people in a game... much less 750. Two different types of game, they can both be fun though.
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Oh ... not saying otherwise. I just don't see it as a threat to AH the way Frenchy apparently does.
Of course, I'm not against practical graphical enhancements over time. Practical being the key word. I've seen players post that the beta looks terrific and that the screenshots don't really do it justice. I'm forced to take their word for it since I've yet to make the minimal upgrades needed to see for myself.
And sure I'd like my chicken beaked blockhead pilot to look more like a dashing war movie star pilot ... but it's not an obsession of mine. I may even be one of the players that "oooh and ahhh" when I see the skidmarks on the runway or the reflection glinting off the canopy (if that's incorporated) but I don't require either to keep me in the game.
The tree cover ... now THAT's an actual difference that affects the game. And I'd like to see the hangar deck and ready room on the CV. Again, not a critical enhancement but a slightly more immersive player enviroment than just the Air Group Commander's perch on the island.
And hearing about the ship damage being more detailed with individual gun mounts and radar becoming destroyable objects is another GAME enhancement I consider an actual improvement.
So ... I'm not entirely against the new and improved AHII. I just don't see every graphical tweak in it as a neccesity for game survival. And I don't think players that make that a priority represent the majority of the sim community.
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I asked for it. I asked for improved dammage modelling, gunnery modell, visable dammage etc. I'm probarly not the only one.
As for new planes being added, I THINK HTC said that once AH2 is out the new AH2 system will allow for more rapid development of planes and veihcles but don't take my word for it.
We'll see where it takes us, AH1 is getting outdated in many many ways, the dammage modelling is the most important improvement for me.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
I asked for it. I asked for improved dammage modelling, gunnery modell, visable dammage etc. I'm probarly not the only one.
Which are all GAME enhancements. And being part of AHII makes it a welcome upgrade. But graphic enhancements that depict skidmarks on concrete runways and corrogated metal on the quonset huts or individual rivets on mine or my opponents's plane or makes stenciled warnings in the cockpit and on the fuselage easier to read aren't really game enhancements per say. And if the extra yet uneccessary eyecandy drags down systems that two years ago were considered fairly decent (in some cases "top of the line") without really adding more than some "ooohs and aaahs" the first dozen or so times they're seen (after which they are as taken for granted as the fuzzy portrayals of the pixels that preceeded them) then it's really a waste of HTCs valuable yet limited resources at the possible cost of a chunk of the customer base that was more than satisfied with the current product.
I may be in the running for Ace's High's "King of Run-on Sentences!"
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I never said FB was a threat to AH, I just said that myself, I stoped playing AH because I enjoy "FB online missions" way more. I tried to fly both, but it's impossible, when I'm in AH I feel like playing an old arcade game. Flame all you want, I play AH since Beta, and even if I don't fly it, I still pay for my account. I'm a supporter of AH, but I'm not blind.
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I'm not blind either. Neither are any of the players that still enjoy AH more than any other air combat sim out there. It's graphics aren't "old arcade" by any stretch of the imagination. But opinions vary, I suppose.
So let me ask you ....
Why do you continue to pay for an account you have no intention of using? Why are you supporting a game you've decided is at it's end and has graphics (in your opinion) that are terribly outdated and ruins the game for you? When did you suddenly decide that the game you enjoyed so much had become so ugly to look at that you can't even bring yourself to play it and enjoy it?
Don't tell me when you first played IL2. I've played that game and it's graphic engine isn't that much better. Oh yeah ... you get that neat graphic of your pilot running from your plane and diving on the ground if you crash land. Oh wait! Your instruments get cracked if you take cockpit damage. Heh ... I saw that type of "cutting edge" stuff in boxed sims long ago when old arcade graphics really WERE old arcade.
The skins with the scratched paint detail? The damage detail? Hell, the first can be accomplished in AH as is. The second is supposed to be a part of AHII.
You have the account. Why aren't you flying the beta instead of assuming the graphics that you feel are the be all end all of air combat simming aren't being incorporated into AHII as you type?
But still ... you ARE being graphically anal, you know. Graphic enhancements reached the point of gravy three or four years back. :D
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Originally posted by artik
Do you mean that AH2 v 2.0 will not have ToD? :eek:
LOL! Sorry, I am only quoting what I have read here on the BBS..... but it has been stated that when AH2 comes out it will be the Classic version only and that ToD will follow later. As far as I know, all the present planeset will be included, and at first they were saying there would be no new planes, but last time I quoted that the thread was deleted..... so maybe there will be. Anyway, all information can be found in these forums..... I honestly don't have access to any other information. ;)
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Cod this is pure, unadulterated deja-vu!
Back in 98-99 I remember many people expressing thier wish that AW would look as good as EAW did. And I recall the same old argument about GFX and it's supposed lack of overall importance.
Hogwash. If that was the case we'd all be playing on monochrome screens with wireframe planes AW ala 1989.
Sorry buds. While I agree wholeheartedly that features and gameplay are important so is a programs ability to stimulate the only two senses a PC is capable recreating; sound and sight.
For a lot of people, myself included, AH-1 has fallen down miserably in gameplay and GFX are still OK but old now. And it never had "it" when it cames to "sounds." Not till players in the community rose to the challenge anyway.
IMO AH-1 GFX was the cats meow for a couple of years. Then IL2 came along. And gameplay has been left to the creative ("septic" may be more appropo) juices as AH-1 has turned into a literal AW in the MA all over again. It's the BIGPAC land grab rife with field porking, suicide "buffer/jabo" tards.
Westy
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Arlo, compared to Il2 the graphics are quite bad in AH, this is most noticed when it comes to effects such as sun, sky, smoke, fire, hit sprites. Muzzle flashes are way over-done though.
Don't just look at the plane detail, which are better too but look at all small details, cockpit shaking, engine mannagement, different boost options (water methanol, over boost etc), clouds, rain, snow, thunder, haze, fog, thermals etc etc etc, it's the small details that make a game feel more realistic, AH is nowhere close to the "feel" you get in IL2.
And if the extra yet uneccessary eyecandy drags down systems that two years ago were considered fairly decent (in some cases "top of the line") without really adding more than some "ooohs and aaahs" the first dozen or so times they're seen (after which they are as taken for granted as the fuzzy portrayals of the pixels that preceeded them) then it's really a waste of HTCs valuable yet limited resources at the possible cost of a chunk of the customer base that was more than satisfied with the current product.
Such is life in the computer market, if you wanna stay with it you'll have to upgrade sooner or later, 2 years in the computer market is like light years when it comes to most other things, it advances SO quick, you can't expect a company to stay old and have the same system requirements for their game as they did in 1999 or 2001 (which were about the same system req for AH).
Eyecandy is a BIG part of the realism in a game, even more so when it comes to flight games or sims.
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In my opinion it is kind of gameplay vs graphics. The "worse" the gameplay, the better the graphics have to be to make up for it. Since for many people the gameplay is no longer so immersive, they are beginning to point out that the graphics aren't immersive either.
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Exactly, Urch. Graphics used to be a means to an end .... meaning the game graphics HAD to be advanced to be able to add additional game features (flying through or above clouds, oil smoke versus vaporized fuel, tracers, hit sprites, missing pieces). The horse pulling the cart, if you will.
I think that any additional graphics beyond what is actually neccesary to enhance the game mechanics is just gravy and comes at a premium. If it can be added without undue burden to one year old systems then sure, why not? If adding morning dew to blades of grass in the field you're taking off from serves no real purpose and will be generally ignored once the "oooh and ahhh" stage is over yet it forces everyone in the community to have to double or triple their system specs to continue to play the game ... then that is not only putting the cart well ahead ... it's possibly shooting the horse.
I'll concede that much of what helped boost AH over it's competition from the start was graphical in nature. But it's already reached the level of covering (and covering well) most of the bases that needed covering as far as graphics enhancing the game is concerned (I'll include the latest AHII revamp based on the feedback and information presented on the boards).
The AHII revamp has some gameplay enhancement as well as some graphic enhancement. And it appears that they are related. And although the system specs have definately risen, it may not be too much of a reach for most in the community to keep up (hopefully all of the regulars in the game and then some). It is a major endevour that required significant changes to the game engine as well as the graphics. Long ago the differences and improvements in graphics dropped from mile-long strides to yards or even feet. From this point on differences that graphics will make to the game will be measured in millimeters. That makes it a matter of investment return. I certainly hope HTC sees some from AHII.
AH will never end up a graphic clone of IL2 and I'm certainly not convinced that that's a bad thing. Like you said .... they fill two different niches in the flight sim community.
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(http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/03dec/uf006257.gif)
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Originally posted by Arlo
Exactly, Urch. Graphics used to be a means to an end .... meaning the game graphics HAD to be advanced to be able to add additional game features (flying through or above clouds, oil smoke versus vaporized fuel, tracers, hit sprites, missing pieces). The horse pulling the cart, if you will.
We don't exactly need the matrix, but until we can play at a resolution as good as human eyesight, including peripheral vision, and until we can overcome the limitation of hat-based viewing systems, the horse will continue to pull the cart. We're a looong way from the frivolous stage, imo. What would solve these problems is binocular hemispheric goggles with exrtemely high resolution.
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Originally posted by mold
We don't exactly need the matrix, but until we can play at a resolution as good as human eyesight, including peripheral vision, and until we can overcome the limitation of hat-based viewing systems, the horse will continue to pull the cart. We're a looong way from the frivolous stage, imo. What would solve these problems is binocular hemispheric goggles with exrtemely high resolution.
Until you get it and decide that the goggles steam up and inhibit the graphic immersion and decide that the matrix style cranial jack is really the bestest best total game immersion upgrade and that any game that doesn't have it is so far behind the times that it's not worth your time anymore. Especially since those "steamy" goggles also made you blind. :cool:
Yeah ... it's about to the friv stage. :D
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with the first couple of AH2 Betas I got 0 FPS on my system, which can run IL2 Sturmovik at max detail fine. Granted, IL2 is an older game, but looks way better than AH2. I gave up checking the AH2 betas after that.
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You have finally found Nirvana. Until later when the Nirvana looks greener on the other side of the fence.
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Arlo, I am really happy for you to still be able to enjoy Ah and honestly think that it's still great. As far as I'm concerned, AH and even AH2 Beta is no longer "da ****znit", and sadly only 1 56FG member is still flying AH. When is the last time we had a cool F4U/P47 squad encouter?
I still pay my account to support HTC for a couple of more month. Maybe it doesn't make sense to you, but I had a great time flying AH, I'm hoping it will help them offer a product that satisfies me again... and no, you cannot in your right mind say that AH and FB graphics are about the same. AH is not a box game, so I guess it xcannot have the graphics of FB (who wants to download a 1 gig game), but I wouldn't mind paying $40 for a boxed AH3 addon that give me killer graphics.
The visual is mandatory for my "immersion factor". If there's no immersion, I don't want to play it.
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I'm tickled pink that you think IL2 will still satisfy you next year. If HTC doesn't freak out and decide that graphics means more than the game itself ... then I'll be HTC's satisfied customer next year and the year after that and so on. HiTech doesn't hafta "keep up with the Jones'." All it has to do is to continue to offer a decent product at a decent price and it'll do fine. For every player that "moves on" to something "better." There'll be two that discover Aces High for the first time.
:D
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Originally posted by udet
with the first couple of AH2 Betas I got 0 FPS on my system, which can run IL2 Sturmovik at max detail fine. Granted, IL2 is an older game, but looks way better than AH2. I gave up checking the AH2 betas after that.
Your loss then. I also had very low framerates initially, but now have similar framerates to AH1 following the various updates. :)
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Originally posted by Flossy
Your loss then. I also had very low framerates initially, but now have similar framerates to AH1 following the various updates. :)
ok, you tricked me into downloading the next beta hon :)
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I was told the that main reasons for creating a new graphics engine for AH2 was to improve the damage modeling and terrain modeling. The "eyecandy" is a side benefit.
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I think that any additional graphics beyond what is actually neccesary to enhance the game mechanics is just gravy and comes at a premium.
Well, IMO realism is the most important thing, meaning a good flight modell and a good gunnery/dmg modell in combat sims. However, good graphics means good immersion and adds to the realism IMO, there is no "beyond what is actually neccesary" graphics in IL2 FB IMO, it all just adds to realism.
AH2 does look alot better then AH1 but nowhere close to IL2. Then again, it's beta you dolts.
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AH1 is mid/late 1990s graphics level, for example Janes WW2 fighters from 1998 had somewhat better graphics than AH1 has now in late 2003.
So basically its time for an update to graphics if AH is to remain competitive in the long run.
And FYI I'm one of the guys who likes AH1 graphics even if they are "old."
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HT said at some point something like "there hadn't been anything interesting in graphics development until pixel shaders, with those we can do some interesting stuff", in the sense that it wasn't feasible to overhaul the 3D engine untill then, in his opinion, if I remember his saying so correctly.
imo HTC does wtf they want, it's their game. That means responding to players' and their own demands, and developing whatever they want for whatever end result they want.
So far I'm satisfied and deem it worth paying to play it.
It's a bit strange to see the AH2 graphics so little ahead of AH1's, but my impression is it's no big deal, as AH is more about gameplay, and it doesn't look like this is anything but just the beginning of exploiting the new engine, Beta or not.
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It's a bit strange to see the AH2 graphics so little ahead of AH1's, but my impression is it's no big deal, as AH is more about gameplay, and it doesn't look like this is anything but just the beginning of exploiting the new engine, Beta or not.
Agree
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Originally posted by Arlo
Especially since those "steamy" goggles also made you blind. :cool:
True, the goggles would have to show joystick/throttle in the display. But what a bother, a jack is so simple. ;)
Originally posted by Arlo
Yeah ... it's about to the friv stage. :D
Hey, someone's gotta drive the economy! :D
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If it were me,I'd keep the gameplay the same,add a few planes,and use new grahic engine to make a classic version,so the players would have choice.
Dobe
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Originally posted by mold
Hey, someone's gotta drive the economy! :D
Well keep it at a decent speed for a change. Speed kills. :lol
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Originally posted by Arlo
Ahhh .... but there you're just plain wrong. You've bought into the "picture perfect neccessity" schlock lock stock and barrel. Tell, me .... does the image on your screen need to be digital quality in every detail for you to attain immersion? If so you must have little, if any, imagination. And truly it'll never be enough until you manage to find a way to teleport back in time and get yourself into one of the service flight schools.
The "gotta have my eye candy" crowd is basically a crowd of duped individuals.
Unfortunately in today's MMOG market you have to have the eye candy to remain competitive and to attract new players.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Unfortunately in today's MMOG market you have to have the eye candy to remain competitive and to attract new players.
Don't buy the lie. There's still lots of European Air War fans in the world. Probably just as many as the brainwashed fanatic graphic perfection crowd that will never be happy until they get a head jack (and even then they'll be wired to ask for a new jack upgrade every year). The rumor that all mmog online sims will constantly have to upgrade their graphics engine no matter how good they've already gotten was perpetrated and spread by video card companies and it's slowing down what's needed for real progress in the flightsim community - more aircraft models, greater modeling accuracy and a smoother game engine/interface. :D:aok
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If it were me,I'd keep the gameplay the same,add a few planes,and use new grahic engine to make a classic version,so the players would have choice.
Uhm, gameplay isn't changing (part from modified flight modelling and dammage modelling), new planes will be added and the graphic engine is new. There is no "force the players in the TOD". The Main Arena and it's gameplay will still exist, as a matter of fact the TOD won't be added at the same time as AH2 is released from beta. TOD will come later.
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Originally posted by Arlo
Don't buy the lie. There's still lots of European Air War fans in the world. Probably just as many as the brainwashed fanatic graphic perfection crowd that will never be happy until they get a head jack (and even then they'll be wired to ask for a new jack upgrade every year). The rumor that all mmog online sims will constantly have to upgrade their graphics engine no matter how good they've already gotten was perpetrated and spread by video card companies and it's slowing down what's needed for real progress in the flightsim community - more aircraft models, greater modeling accuracy and a smoother game engine/interface. :D:aok
The company I work for has two of the largest MMOG games in the world. Our flagship MMOG is now edging up past the 5 year mark and has extremely out dated graphics that we are in the process of updating with a new graphics engine so we can compete with the new MMOG games that are coming out. Even though our flagship game has a paid subscriber base of 300,000+, we are forced to do this to remain competitive. It's the nature of the beast. The fact is the mass consumer wants eye candy and will be attracted to the game that has the most eye candy, even if the game play is sub-par.
Personally, if the game play is excellent then I can over look the graphical shortcomings of the game. I still play DoD and that is based on a game that came out almost 6 years ago. But the game play is by far better than any of the new rivals with far better graphics but sub-par game play. But then I'm a hardcore gamer and you'll find attitudes like mine common but with the casual gamer that makes up the majority of the gaming audience, the attitude drifts towards the other side.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The company I work for has two of the largest MMOG games in the world.
I hope AH never tries to model itself after Everquest. That would not be a good thang. ;) :D :aok
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It's a good model on how to market a MMOG to the masses beyond the hardcore gamer, other than that don't think HT can really learn anything from EQ.
ack-ack
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The problem I see is the fact that the graphics in AHII arnt even that great, there now evenJanes WWII fighters great. I am ok with how the graphics look now, I would just like to see some new features, and some new aircraft. I am kinda disapointed that we heard all the hub-bub about how AHII would be out third Q 2003, here we are almost to 2004. I would think that honesty would also help to improve cash flow too. :/
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Pardon my confusion but ...
Do you see the problem as poor graphics in AHII or do you like the graphics just fine as is and just want to see more features and aircraft? You peeled out then slammed it into reverse. Which way ya goin'?
I wouldn't mind seeing a poll that reflected eye-candy vs. more game features and aircraft to see how many players would prioritize glitz over substance.
"More filling!"
"Looks great!"
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Kegger you should consider another game. Obviously from what you posted your main concern is graphics. That's all well and good. In graphics you can obviously do better as you have pointed out.
This wittle nich of flightsim junkies are here because of the game, the engine, and the way it runs.
If graphics were the main concern to those here, we'd have moved on awhile ago.
Oh look at how pretty it is is not the endall here.
It's the game, the features and the fun.
Cutting edge graphics would eliminate 2/3's of the current attendence.
Take your hot rod, go off and find some game that's pretty and tell yourself your having fun.
The alternative is staying here, getting your bellybutton handed to you long enough until you learn.
I know what I'd do.
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yet another shoe
for him to poop on :D
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Been getting some serious WB2 to WB3 de ja vu. Just hate to see today's game go downhill/stagnant while they are working on next year's.
I have no idea of what the AH2 schedule is, but I am guessing quite some time off yet. In the meantime it is my hope they will consider throwing us a bone in AH1. (It is not difficult to imagine already finished/almost finished planes for AH1 gathering dust on the HTC harddrives right now.)
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Originally posted by Zanth
Dear HTC:
I remember from the very beginning earliest days flying your game. I hated it. I went to Warbirds for a long while, I tried your game again here and there until finally - boom!@ hey this is cool!. I have enjoyed very much Ace High, probably too much if you ask any one else around me in real life.
I am worried though. And many are not sure where the impetus for AH2 came from in the first place. A good number of us are pretty happy with the AH world "as is" and I dare say, to a man, we are more impressed, and were looking forward to, aircraft additions. I am probably wrong, but I bet you a pile more people are more concerned with when will we have a KI-84 or a P-61 than how many leaves the next tree has.
AH2 is the future, no doubt. It looks promising, it looks wonderfull. Frankly though, who asked for it? On the develpoment side I imagine it is real easy to get bored, but please look outside for a moment and appreciate what you already have.
Respectfully,
Bill Coggin
Crowd: Whine, whine, whine, AH1 looks outdated we want better graphics!
HTC: Ok, we will develop AH2, but it might take a while.
Crowd: Yeah! *cheers* Thank you HTC!
Time passes.
Crowd: Whine, whine, whine, we want more planes! Who wanted this AH2 crap anyway?
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Kegger26
I am ok with how the graphics look now, I would just like to see some new features, and some new aircraft.
nopoop and arlo take the time to read and understand a post before responding. Exit foot here ---->
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Honestly, I just hope they don't start losing the main subscribers to the game for the lack of updates to AH1 and changing the game they love so much in AH2. If you start losing the "regulars" this game will spiral downward because noone wants to play a game with 300 bases on a map with only 15 players on a team. I looked at WWII online once.. there were only like 45 people on the whole thing total. Who wants to play that? I honestly think you will attract more new players with huge furballs and more players online than you would with outstanding graphics and 50 folks aimlessly wandering huge maps and porking strats because there is simply nothing else to do.
Its HTC's decision, but lets be honest, they aren't replying to this, and we all know from experience that they aren't going to... So, all we as subscribers can do is know that they are carrying out the plan they set in motion and if we don't like how it turns out, quit paying your $15 a month and find a new hobby :) Belaboring this issue will get you nothing but heartburn, because they have invested waaaayy too much on AH2 to scrap it now... its going to roll whether we like it or not, all we can do is hope that enough folks like it to keep the player base alive :aok
--Howitzer
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Why does AH1 need changes or updates? It looks fine to me. Let them work on AH2. For people asking for all kinds of new planes to be added...well, we have quite a few planes available now. I only see a couple being flown though. How many people here fly P40s? 109Es? 205s?
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Wake up and smell the coffee guys.
AH needs a freshen up. The MA doesn't cut it anymore, its BORING.
Every day I see more and more AH guys trying out WW2OL. Why do you think that is?
HTC is taking a step in the right direction. The $$$ are not with a couple of crusty old farts who can't be bothered upgrading their Pentium II 450's. I for one eagerly await the arrival of the new graphics system, and really really look forward to a campaign/career style arena with historical matchups.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It's a good model on how to market a MMOG to the masses beyond the hardcore gamer, other than that don't think HT can really learn anything from EQ.
ack-ack
Sure they can. No perks unless there were six of you flying together.
No perks at all if you kill a aircraft that's not bigger, faster, and piloted by a better driver than you.
No perks unless you join a squadron.
I played EQ much too long after I decided I hated it. Verant spends all it's available free time deciding HOW they want people to play, and if you don't play THEIR way you go nowhere. It's social engineering at its worst, because if they can FORCE you to work in groups then you're more likely to pay just to chat with your friends. I was a solo player, so EthernalQuest is a much better compromise for me. Free, and I can play it any way I want.
There's a HUGE lesson for HTC, IMHO. Don't start trying to force the style of gameplay. Pisses people like me off, but it apparently makes millions for Sony.
BTW, I was an EQ beta tester. They offered my MacBeta, but by then I hated it. By the time they offered my SWG beta I hated Verant.
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Originally posted by Puck
There's a HUGE lesson for HTC, IMHO. Don't start trying to force the style of gameplay. Pisses people like me off, but it apparently makes millions for Sony.
BTW, I was an EQ beta tester. They offered my MacBeta, but by then I hated it. By the time they offered my SWG beta I hated Verant.
Big Difference here, you have a choice there still will be the Main Arena along with the others arenas we have today with the addition of the (NEW) Tour Of Duty arena, no forced gameplay just MORE choices.
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I wasn't suggesting HTC was trying to dictate gameplay; so far I've seen him going out of his way NOT to, in fact.
AHII looks nice, has some great features, and knocks my frame rate to less than half. Can't wait to see what they do with it.
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Originally posted by Puck
...but it apparently makes millions for Sony.
And without people like you paying for our games I could never have afforded my new house and new car, thanks!
ack-ack
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My pleasure! Glad it got used for something useful :D
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Originally posted by Kegger26
.... arlo take the time to read and understand a post before responding. Exit foot here ---->
I read it. Twice. It wasn't very well written and you seemed confused. I asked you,"Do you see the problem as poor graphics in AHII or do you like the graphics just fine as is and just want to see more features and aircraft?"
Now you've cut out the first part ... which is what you should have done to begin with. Very good, your post now makes sense. Thanks for clearing it up. It's all I was askin'. Carry on.
:D
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Arlo,
Your a Terd...enough said...:rofl
Why Skuzzy doesn't ban you is beyond me.
Maybe English isn't his first language you Corn-Fed jerkoff.:aok
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Why Skuzzy doesn't ban you is beyond me.
Probably the same reason you haven't been banned for your personal attacks.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Arlo,
Your a Terd...enough said...:rofl
Why Skuzzy doesn't ban you is beyond me.
Maybe English isn't his first language you Corn-Fed jerkoff.:aok
"You're" :D :aok
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Probably the same reason you haven't been banned for your personal attacks.
ack-ack
That was a personal attack? Hell, Ack .... we done seen better out on the corn farm. I remember once when `ol Billy Joe Jim Bob made them there fartin' noises with his armpit and told Jimmy Joe Bill Bob that it was his matin' call. Now THAT was fuuuu-nyyyyyyy.
:D :rofl :D :rofl
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Originally posted by mold
Why does AH1 need changes or updates? It looks fine to me. Let them work on AH2. For people asking for all kinds of new planes to be added...well, we have quite a few planes available now. I only see a couple being flown though. How many people here fly P40s? 109Es? 205s?
The Combat Theater crowd. And yes ... we still need more planes. There's gaps in the setups. :D
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Originally posted by Vulcan
HTC is taking a step in the right direction. The $$$ are not with a couple of crusty old farts who can't be bothered upgrading their Pentium II 450's. I for one eagerly await the arrival of the new graphics system, and really really look forward to a campaign/career style arena with historical matchups.
You're not getting it. Graphics alone do not make the game. Never did, never will. And yes ... graphics can reach the frivolous stage. If a game's going down that road to stay alive, then it's merely on "life-support.":D
Even the teenie-bopper players who get a new top of the line PC for Chistmas and/or their birthday from their parents should eventually understand that. At least they're parents should. :)
You mention looking forward to "Tour of Duty" as well as new graphics so I'm thinking you may be in transition.
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Skuzzy,
Please ban Arlo..restore some cred. to this BB.
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Originally posted by Arlo
There's gaps in the setups. :D
True, I just noticed we're missing the Fi 156 Storch!! One of the most influential planes of the war is COMPLETELY ABSENT from our lineup. If HTC doesn't bring this in I am CANCELLING MY ACCOUNT IN PUTRID DISGUST!! :D
(http://www.piteraq.dk/flight/images/ms7502.jpg)
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Originally posted by Vulcan
AH needs a freshen up. The MA doesn't cut it anymore, its BORING.
Every day I see more and more AH guys trying out WW2OL. Why do you think that is?
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Skuzzy,
Please ban Arlo..restore some cred. to this BB.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings somehow. But I'll get over it. You ... I'm not so sure. Nice to meet you. :)
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Originally posted by mold
True, I just noticed we're missing the Fi 156 Storch!! One of the most influential planes of the war is COMPLETELY ABSENT from our lineup. If HTC doesn't bring this in I am CANCELLING MY ACCOUNT IN PUTRID DISGUST!! :D
Don't worry. Nobody'll hold you to it. But you knew that. And fergawshsakes ... add some Spanish Civil War aircraft to your request if you want to be taken seriously. You want to be taken seriously, right?
AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War!AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War!AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War!AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War! AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War!AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War!AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War!AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War!AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War!AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War!AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War!AH needs to model the Spanish Civil War!
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Skuzzy,
Please ban Arlo..restore some cred. to this BB.
Why? I've just re-read this thread and I see nothing wrong with any of Arlo's posts. You, however, have personally attacked him, and you ask for him to be banned? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Arlo
You want to be taken seriously, right?
Not if I can help it. :D
BTW yeah SCW would be cool. :) OK, if you get SCW I get the brainplug--deal?
(Unarmed) R/C planes beware! Heil Storch!
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Originally posted by mold
Not if I can help it. :D
BTW yeah SCW would be cool. :) OK, if you get SCW I get the brainplug--deal?
(Unarmed) R/C planes beware! Heil Storch!
Sure ... but only if the brainplug is optional. I don't wanna download a virus to my lobes. I'd rather get them the old-fashioned way. ;)
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" I'd rather get them the old-fashioned way. "
Passes unopened box of "Count Chocula" to Arlo...
It's at the bottom!
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Originally posted by Westy
" I'd rather get them the old-fashioned way. "
Passes unopened box of "Count Chocula" to Arlo...
It's at the bottom!
Cool! I haven't had CC in ages! (Double checks to make sure box is unopened) :D
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Flossy,
Who asked for your opinion? STFU..
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Flossy,
Who asked for your opinion? STFU..
who asked for yours?
soooo in this spirit.....
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_150_1067007634.jpg)
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Flossy,
Who asked for your opinion? STFU..
I am hoping that this post was in jest ... I see no smiley or a j/k.
If not in jest, then you have shown a complete lack of respect for one of the most respectfull players of flight sims and anything short of an apology should result in your banning.
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Originally posted by MC_Honky
Flossy,
Who asked for your opinion? STFU..
I'll take 13 in the "How old is 'MC_Honky'? pool."
And "Snoop_Cracker" as what name he'll pick to return as after he exits stage left.
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This is not going anywhere folks. A few are completely out of line.