Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Happy1 on December 30, 2003, 06:02:33 PM

Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Happy1 on December 30, 2003, 06:02:33 PM
Greetings every1  :(   I wish to advise EVERYBODY against buying
the LOGITECH WINGMAN EXTREME DIGITAL 3D even though there's quite a following for it, in fact, listening to the pple con-
cerned, though their intentions are/were good.

I purchased the stick for $30.00 + S&H+ tax= $37.34 on 08/25/03
rec'd stk on 08/29.03 w/1 yr warranty, the stk was great until 11/25/2003 at which time it started to loose power & excessive nose bouncing.

I made contact w/Logitech Support on 11/26/2003, a replace-
ment was promised me within 2 wks, so far so good, on 12/12/03
I phd Logitech Support re "NO STK REC'D", I was told that it WAS
MAILED & to pend another week until 12/19/2003.

12/19/2003 NO STK REC'D phd Logitech, was told it was mailed on 12/15/03 & why was I LIED to...usual excuses, was asked to wait until 12/23/03, as shipments come to their warehouse on a DAILY basis.

12/23/03 STK NOT REC'D was finally told that a replacement was ordered & should arrive by 12/30/03 at the latest.

12/30/03 phd Logitech STK NOT REC"D, this time I was told that
the stick is OUT OF STOCK & REPLACEMENTS ORDERED..NO idea as
to when that stk will arrive.   Am ready to file an adverse report
against the company & let the news stations know about this unfair business practice.  

Don't buy cheap joysticks invest in quality sticks such as CHProducts or Thrustmaster & save urselves the headaches of collections activity & dunning these cheaper companies.

NOT so Happy1  


:mad:
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: WhiteHawk on December 31, 2003, 07:56:44 PM
yea..best bet for logitech is to buy several sticks so you have spare parts, even tho the commie fuchs engineer the same part to die.  Eventually you will have a good spare part inventory.  BTW, microsoft musta went out of the joyustick business, cus all they got is the saitek sht, with 400 buttons, or the junk logitech.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: beet1e on January 04, 2004, 04:12:32 AM
Doh. I have just bought that stick, and have started to have the same problems. :( But I was able to fix it by adjusting the deadband and damper settings.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Halo on January 04, 2004, 11:27:56 AM
Sorry you've had bad experiences, but I have to report I have had nothing but good experiences with my excellent Logitech keyboard and Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital 3D joystick.

Well, come to think of it, I got this stick after my previous Wingman Extreme Digital 3D eventually failed to hold the hat left view.  But that was after a couple years.  

I find it curious that the present stick, my favorite, has a depresssed cup hat which is much more comfortable than the previous pointy cone hat.  But I only saw this one stick in Comp USA and have never seen another like it anywhere.

Happy1, sounds like your replacement got mired in the holiday rush.  Hopefully it emerge soon.  I'm surprised to have been waiting more than a month for a simple keyboard cover I ordered in December.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Tarmac on January 04, 2004, 12:04:58 PM
I agree with Halo about the holiday rush.  I've owned 4 Logitech Wingman extremes, two of which were replaced under warranty with no questions asked once I told them what the problem was (rudder pot dying).  The other one was out of warranty, so I was fubared on that one, but that's expected.  I've had good experiences with their customer service, although their joystick quality is questionable.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: WhiteHawk on January 04, 2004, 05:49:55 PM
I can testify that their quality is crap, but their sticks are are repairable.  Except theywont sell you the spare parts.  And their pots go out alarmingly fast.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: beet1e on January 04, 2004, 06:06:21 PM
I was getting terrible nose bounce. I've reinstalled the Logitech drivers - all seems OK now.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: NUKE on January 04, 2004, 06:34:49 PM
If you want zero nose bounce and a great setup, get all CH.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: bloom25 on January 05, 2004, 10:45:18 PM
I had one of those sticks a long time ago.  I liked the spring tension on the stick, but though the x and y axis are digital, the z (rudder) axis is driven by a very poorly placed analog potentiometer.  It's located on the top of a rod in the center of the stick itself.  The wires that go to it get twisted up inside the handle and break off.  The first time this happened I was able to fix the stick, but eventually the whole handle itself snapped clean off the base and that was the end of that.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: beet1e on January 06, 2004, 01:00:10 AM
So Bloom, what twisty stick would you recommend these days? I'll stick with the Logitech (no pun intended!) for now, but I really, really don't want to have to go the rudder pedals route.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Tarmac on January 06, 2004, 01:24:35 AM
Why no peds, beetle?

I was a logitech twisty user, I didn't like my buddy's CH peds when I tried them.  Eventually though, I just got tired of replacing the stick when the rudder pot died (4 sticks, all rudder pot dead).  So I bought the peds, and had 3 sticks (minus the rudder axis) waiting for me to wreck.  

I wouldn't dream of going back to twisty stick now.  Love my CH pedals.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: WhiteHawk on January 06, 2004, 05:50:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by bloom25
I had one of those sticks a long time ago.  I liked the spring tension on the stick, but though the x and y axis are digital, the z (rudder) axis is driven by a very poorly placed analog potentiometer.  It's located on the top of a rod in the center of the stick itself.  The wires that go to it get twisted up inside the handle and break off.  The first time this happened I was able to fix the stick, but eventually the whole handle itself snapped clean off the base and that was the end of that.


thats the part that breaks on mine all the time.  Luckily I have access to machining equipment and I am planning to make a metal base with a metal base peg welded to it.  I just havnt got around to it yet.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: beet1e on January 09, 2004, 05:18:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tarmac
Why no peds, beetle?

I was a logitech twisty user, I didn't like my buddy's CH peds when I tried them.  Eventually though, I just got tired of replacing the stick when the rudder pot died (4 sticks, all rudder pot dead).  So I bought the peds, and had 3 sticks (minus the rudder axis) waiting for me to wreck.  

I wouldn't dream of going back to twisty stick now.  Love my CH pedals.
It's a personal preference. My monitor is at an angle to the front edge of my desk, and I like to swivel my chair to face it. I have the stick out to the right. If I had pedals, they would have to go in the recess under the desk, and I would have to twist my body to use them. I like the convenience of twisty sticks. However...

...my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro seems to be acting up. In the AH stick calibration procedure, full right stick is giving only about two thirds of the full movement. And just now, I found that my aileron control does not work at all. So I am going to return this stick, and buy another one.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: WhiteHawk on January 10, 2004, 08:31:52 PM
yea beetle. its their junk potentiometers.  Good luck on your return, if you can return it to the store its good luck.  if not, you pay shipping.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Wilbus on January 12, 2004, 01:27:55 PM
I have a Logitech Cordless freedom. The hat died after a few months so I got a new one from the store where I bought it. The one that died had the same kind of hat that Halo describes, the new one has the pointy hat. Cordeless sucks big time, you need to recalibirate it in AH as soon as it shuts it self down and in IL2 it's over sensitive even though it is normal in windows controll panel.

I went and ordered a thrustmaster fox pro 2 instead, works great so far.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: slimm50 on January 12, 2004, 02:24:39 PM
I guess I just got lucky on joysticks, cause 've been using the same MSFF2 for several years now with no problems whatever. I admit I don't fly as much as some of you do, so mine probably hasn't seen the use yours have. (keeping my fingers crossed).
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: sonofagun on January 12, 2004, 03:55:10 PM
Must be lucky myself.   I've used Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital for years with X-plane, Jane's USAF & F18 Hornet and now AH.

Although my gunnery sucks, stick works flawlessly.  Bought one for my boy for Christmas and recommended one to a buddy who flies AH.  Hope I don't have to eat my words.
:(
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: beet1e on January 12, 2004, 04:30:42 PM
I just returned mine today, and did a straight swap for a Saitek Cyborg 3D. It's another twisty, but initial tests are encouraging! At the centre position, the stick "gearing" is quite low, by which I mean I can move it considerably and get only a small plane movement. This is good, as some sticks cause nose bounce in the central positions. I think I'm going to be able to be more accurate with this stick.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Wilbus on January 14, 2004, 02:42:02 AM
My Sidewinder Precission Pro gave me more than 1500 flight hours before the HAT went bad, was a great stick.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: beet1e on January 14, 2004, 03:11:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
My Sidewinder Precission Pro gave me more than 1500 flight hours before the HAT went bad, was a great stick.
I had two of those. The second one lasted a long time, but the first one became wobbly in the middle after about a year, and had to be replaced. The profiler software worked only under W98 or WMe etc., but not W2000. The installer was hard coded to install to C:\WINDOWS, and not C:\WINNT.

The Saitek Cyborg seems OK - no nasty nose bounce in the centre, but I need some means of sticking it to the desk - any ideas? Velcro?
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Creamo on January 14, 2004, 03:29:47 AM
I bought my old man a full Logitech setup for Xmas, speakers, wireless keyboard and mouse (best upgrade I know of), and the new hoopty twisty Extreme3d. I was way impressed with the joysticks solid base and Flightsim 2004 easily saw it and I could program it with ease.

Microsoft sticks are just as easy to use, just too sloppy, not to mention they have missed what Logitech finally made great, a solid heavy controller base.

I'm really impressed with the unit for casual flightsim users, but know Ch Pro Pedals are mandatory, and a true HOTAS setup like the Saitek X45 for competing in games like AH. He's just using it in FS2004 for instrument training, so it's ideal. Sorry to hear it's having problems, it seemed o do everything great when i installed it, and a great cheap choice if your not concerned about running trim and extra throttle based buttons.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Happy1 on January 14, 2004, 09:53:08 PM
Well Ladies & Gentlemen, I must say that I FINALLY REC'D my
Logitech Joystick after NUMEROUS confabs w/their 'Customer Svc & TechSupport'.  The stick I rec'd w/apologies was the "LOGITECH
WINGMAN EXTREME 3D PRO" instead of the Extreme 3D as they
no longer make it.

I'm happy 2 say that now, after almost a 2 month wait minus a wk
Logitech came through.   The new stick feels good, better than the old one, has 12 buttons to program, the Hat, plus by using the Shift + to program MORE buttons, in fact it DOUBLES the pro-
gramming buttons.

I'll have to figure the buttons as to How & where to program them
in the next few days.  Ur suggestions are welcome, thx   :aok

Cheers,

Happy1  :D
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: 38ruk on January 15, 2004, 03:49:02 AM
hey guys, i have also had a nightmare with my new logitech 3d pro , nose bounce gallore. i even went as far as clipping the spring in the stick to get rid of it , to no avail. imho its a piece of garbage, im still usin a swpp2 with a flaky hat switch rather than use it . will be huntin for a leftover pp2 i guess , tryed the evo from cyborg as well , no stick bounce but the throttle is in a bad spot, if u guys come across any good twisty sticks let me know .     38maw
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: beet1e on January 15, 2004, 04:23:55 AM
Happy - do remember to post back if/when your pots start acting up. What I'd like is the Logitech stick & buttons, with the Saitek innards and smoothness. THAT would be a good stick.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Happy1 on January 15, 2004, 02:08:26 PM
NP beet1e,  when & if any probs develope I'll post the results.
Hope everything will work out 4 the best :) So far so gd...Day2.

Happy1  :D
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Roscoroo on January 15, 2004, 03:08:12 PM
the logitec has the best layout . but went to the basement as far as quality control of there elec parts ...

why dont they realize that we are getting tired of nose bounce, rudder and throttle glitches . i have 3 wingmans and each one has a different glitch in it .
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Happy1 on January 15, 2004, 03:48:14 PM
That's so very true Roscoroo, but u've always been there to help me through thick & thin 4 which I'm very grateful, as a matter of
fact, as a Newbie u helped me from day1  :)

Roscoroo u r a gd chap  ;)

Happy1  :D
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: RTR on January 15, 2004, 05:06:01 PM
38ruk just a thought on your nose bounce problem.

Have you checked to make sure that Force Feeb Back is Disabled in the joystick setup in game?

It is enabled by default I believe, and it will cause numerous stick problems, including severe nose bounce.

From the clip board click on set up--->Joystick. Then click on the force feedback tab  and put an "X" in the "disable all forces" box.
Click apply, calibrate your stick and try it.

As for the rest you should experiment a bit with deadband and damping and stick scaling for all axis'. You will find a setup that works for you I am sure.


Happy1, glad you seem to have it sorted out sir. Good luck :)

Cheers,
RTR
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: 38ruk on January 15, 2004, 10:19:26 PM
Amen roscoroo,  RTR thanks for the suggestions , i  have been throught the check list still the same . i have scaled it many ways to no avail, its a stick problem that  is more deep seeded...thx anyways,   Roscoroo the layout is awsome on the stick , thats why i have tryed so hard to resolve the issue , hope they get there watermelon together at logitech   <> all 38
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Happy1 on January 16, 2004, 09:41:37 PM
Roscoroo & RTR  :)

Gentlemen, just HOW do u get rid of the "NOSE BOUNCE" using
the Logitech stick, the both of u r well versed, experienced pilots
w/many kills using this stick?

What have u done?  How did u do it?  Pls list particulars in this
subject matter.

I tried increasing the DEADBAND & decreasing the Damper until it's
1/2" from the bottom on my ROLL.

I extended my Damper an inch (") from the bottom with 1/2" on
the Deadband on my PITCH

MY Damper on my RUDDERS(Twisty) is increased by 50% with the
Deadband set 1/2".

The end result is that the nose bounce is ever present spraying the target, thereby producing needless ammo waste & poor gunnery skills :mad:

Thx 4 ur courtesies & help...btw this is posted for EVERY1 to read & offer a solution to this unpleasant mess, TY.

Happy1  :D
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Halo on January 18, 2004, 08:43:46 PM
Happy1, I think you're in the right area by experimenting with the amount of Dead Band and Damping you set.  On all three items (roll, pitch, and rudder), I set mine about 1/5 or 1/6 the way up from the bottom of the vertical bars, close to what you describe as your settings.

Oh, and I set all those other degree buttons totally up against the top limits.  I used to try what looked like a slant line starting from about 10 on the left to around 90 on the right, but find that just leaving all of them maxed at the top works best.  

My Logitech Extreme Digital 3D is still the best stick I've ever had, and I have no plans to replace it except with maybe the latest one that has more buttons (sounds like yours).
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: WhiteHawk on January 20, 2004, 08:56:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Happy1
Well Ladies & Gentlemen, I must say that I FINALLY REC'D my
Logitech Joystick after NUMEROUS confabs w/their 'Customer Svc & TechSupport'.  The stick I rec'd w/apologies was the "LOGITECH
WINGMAN EXTREME 3D PRO" instead of the Extreme 3D as they
no longer make it.

I'm happy 2 say that now, after almost a 2 month wait minus a wk
Logitech came through.   The new stick feels good, better than the old one, has 12 buttons to program, the Hat, plus by using the Shift + to program MORE buttons, in fact it DOUBLES the pro-
gramming buttons.

I'll have to figure the buttons as to How & where to program them
in the next few days.  Ur suggestions are welcome, thx   :aok

Cheers,

Happy1  :D


See you in 2 months when one of the potentiometer shoots craps.
of course, all those logitiehc with the btroken base, have slightly different pots so you you cant use them.  In fact, when it appears to logitech that someone may actually be able to make 1 good stick out of 2 bad ones, the discontinue the product.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: WhiteHawk on January 20, 2004, 09:03:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Happy1
Roscoroo & RTR  :)

Gentlemen, just HOW do u get rid of the "NOSE BOUNCE" using
the Logitech stick, the both of u r well versed, experienced pilots
w/many kills using this stick?

What have u done?  How did u do it?  Pls list particulars in this
subject matter.

I tried increasing the DEADBAND & decreasing the Damper until it's
1/2" from the bottom on my ROLL.

I extended my Damper an inch (") from the bottom with 1/2" on
the Deadband on my PITCH

MY Damper on my RUDDERS(Twisty) is increased by 50% with the
Deadband set 1/2".

The end result is that the nose bounce is ever present spraying the target, thereby producing needless ammo waste & poor gunnery skills :mad:

Thx 4 ur courtesies & help...btw this is posted for EVERY1 to read & offer a solution to this unpleasant mess, TY.

Happy1  :D


Goto set up in windows, check how the stick reacts to movement in the set up.  Now, you realize a calibration is in order,  WHOOHOOOO, welcome to logitech.  the 3d pro is AUTOMATICALLY calibrated.  They are so very confident you wont ever need to calibrate it, you dont even get the option.
 Oh, well, not to worry.  Just unplug it and plug it back in.  Now check how the cross reacts to your inoput in the game controller setup.  Is it ok?  If yes then see you in 2 weeks, if no, then you have a bad potentiometer.  They usually give 1 good pot and 1 bad one in each stick.  they would hate to get a bad reputaion by givng all bad pots.  Wait a minute, I could use the twisty pot cuz I got rudders!  O sht, its different:mad:   The engineers are working hard at logitech.
Title: Logitech Extreme Digital 3D Nightmare
Post by: Halo on January 21, 2004, 12:34:22 AM
Just bought the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro (X3D) and so far works great.  Put my previous Extreme Digital 3D downstairs with my other computer -- stick still works fine.

Couldn't resist the X3D because of its better secondary fire button, addition of four more base buttons (six instead of two), and more solid stable base.

However, I think the hat and top four buttons on the Digital are slightly more comfortable than the X3D, the Digital throttle was better placed and more rugged, and overall the Digital felt brawnier although its base is not as heavy and solid as the X3D.

Installation was smooth, Logitech acknowledging and overwriting the previous Logitech joystick, and my previous settings were retained.  

But I was surprised that Aces High refused to recognize more than the previous seven buttons until I researched on this bulletin board how to go in setup and manually make Aces High allow the additional five buttons.