Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MikkaMan on December 30, 2003, 08:59:13 PM
-
Pardon me if I'm not up on my facts about the La7, but having flown for only for a few weeks in AH, it seems that the La7 was the best fighter or WWII according to its performance in this game. It turns with the best at slow speed; it climbs as well as anything I've seen; and finally, it can out run any ftr. How accurate is this? I'm sure you hotshot pilots (meant as a compliment) can tell me where the weak points are with the La7, but I can't find them.
:confused:
-
Uh - same La7 as in AH??
AH La7 is an unpleasant handler at lo speed, isn't the fastest fighter by any stretch, and doesn't perform well over 10k. All those drawbacks can be mitigated by a thinking pilot, but an La7 will only appear uber until some real skills are required.
-
However, given that all planes have a certain extent all sorts of deficiencies, yes, as a non-perked plane, the La-7 could be considered perhaps one of the, if not the, best in AH. At least - in almost every category where it directly manifests its performances edges into tactical combat advantages.
Don't listen to all those skillful pilots saying the La-7 sucks :) They don't say its uber, because to them, nothing gives trouble or difficulties. However, to us average guys :D, the La-7 is really a handful to fight against.
For instance, unless I can somehow feel sure that I'm very much more relativedly skilled than the other guy, I know I can't beat any La-5FN or La-7 in Fw190s, 1vs1, coalt.
Also, fighting against it in US planes, it involves clever tactics requiring lot of skill, to best it.
Fighting against it in the Bf109s, the only real chance of catching one is with the Bf109G-10, which is a really close match, with the La-7... and still it can simply disengage at will, if there is room to dive - since the La-7 dives much better than the Bf109G-10, and suffers less heavy controls due to high speed.
Basically, as an average pilot, if you see an La-7, and you're not in one yourself, it just gets really frustrating - they're almost as fast as Tempests at deck! Only about 3~5mph slower, I think.
There are a few 'versions' of different data going about the La-7, but it's a shuddering thought that AH La-7, is not even using the best of them. I don't think we can deny it's a fantastic plane under 15k range.
-
MikkaMan,
What have you been flying?
Tactics against the La-7 are heavily dependant upon that and in many cases simply come down to tricking the La-7 pilot into squandering his advatages (re: Kweassa's Fw190s).
-
Just imagine the La-9:
Lighter
Much Cleaner Aerodynamically
Faster
New up to date laminar flow wing
4 23mm nose cannon silimar to those of Il2
La-9s saw combat in Korea, China and against US recon B29s over open water.
-
Ok, La-7 really good plane - but it has main disadvantage - from 8k and higher its berfomances become very poor.
It is great plane for BnZ fight but it is problem if you get higher then 8-10k - and most BnZs are at mid, high altitude.
As turnfighter it is not so good - there are much better planes for turnfighting.
So........ it is good but has problems
-
Originally posted by artik
Ok, La-7 really good plane - but it has main disadvantage - from 8k and higher its berfomances become very poor.
Only its top speed becomes average instead of superb higher than 10k.
-
La 7's are good,- fast, roll well, pack a punch, and handle decently.
La 9 is plain Scary.
But so is Spit Mk XXII ;)
-
I love the La-7, its awesome in AH. I feel confident vs. any enemy in any situation in it. The only plane i do not really like encountering in it is a coalt/higher Spit IX.
The only drawback for me is the crappy cannon ballistics on it, i do not mind the low speed characteristics.
But then again i rarely go above 10k when fighting, so it suits me.
-
Been flying Niki's and Spits...Nikis can run with the to a point, but don't seem to accelerate as fast as the LA, but I can turn fight with them in the Niki. When in the spit, the LA just pulls away in from the spit...no chance of catching them. I guess I most often meet them under 10k so that speed advantage is really apparrent.
For my part, its been almost 7 years since I flew in AW...and I wasn't all that great then either, but I definitely need to hone my skills and get a stick with a hat so I can keep my eyes on the nme.
thanks the input gents...don't shoot me down too often!
cheers,
DK (Mikka)
-
La-7 has several very good points, and just as many (some are the same) drawbacks. The low altitude speed is well known, and under 15k its preformance is amazing in that area. Also one of the best dive accelerators in the game. That seconds charactaristic takes much away from the La7 game however.
A 15k La7 cannot dive succefully on a 5k enemy without overspeeding. So the La7 pilot will often overshoot until he bleeds off enough E.....at which point he is impotant. A slow La7 is like a refrigerator crate filled with children and chocolate....its heavy, hard to handle, and may shift in any randome direction at any moment
An La7 is only marginally faster than a P51 down low, and the 51 can out turn it, and take much better high aspect shots. Up higher the P51 eats the La7 for lunch.
-
As a regular la7 flyer the two ac I find most challenging in any equal e stituation are NiK2's and Spit IX's if i am equal e. But caught slow even with equal e SpitV's, 205's, FM2's, Hurris, F6F's (infact any better turner) then my acceleration will not help me (my bad SA).
Above 8k its starts to become average. But (and this is what upsets most folk) whilst it will not out dive several ac, it will not be caught once extending in a shallow dive. Hence you can mix it for a few turns (at medium alt) and bug out if the angles did not come right for you.
If your La7 is kept above 225/250 mph, kept below 8K your ACM skills go to pot as SA is then all that counts but life becomes boring.
Its actually an ideal angles fighter as its roll, turn, slip and zoom are all better than average.
Some folk be moan its guns but infact the three cannon version only needs one sustained hit to finish off any thing.
Its biggest set back is its relative instability during tight manouvers ......... it lacks "fidelity" and is not as "stable" a gun platform as most ac.
-
what tilt said.
hap1
-
Fighting the La7 tought me to appreciate the 109. A 109F and for that sake 109G2 is a very good La7 killer.
A Yak will also have La7 for breakfast.
-
I really like the 109g10 with 20mm gondolas against the La7. In fact the La7 is in large part the reason I fly the 109g10 with gondolas. I tend to go out of my way to shoot down an La7. It makes me SOOOOO happy :D
I stay above 10k with the g10 most of the time. I have also found that I seem to be able to outturn many la7 pilots with the g10. That however maybe due to the pilot and not the la7.
-
People always ask how to defeat a La7 on its weaknesses. I prefer to best them with my planes strengths.
190 - I can out roll the LaLa all day, Can you say scissor or overshoot? Ironically, I use the La7s best attribute against it. Its fast, but doesnt handle nearly as well as a 190 at those speeds.
109 - I accelerate almost as well and climb almost as well, so I keep the fight close. I can out rudder the La7 so im looking for a verticle fight, not a turn fight.
110 - I can out turn the La7 all day and Hell, all im really looking for is one pass in front of my nose. 4 20mm and 2 30mm cannons can have a devistating effect of our little Russian friend.
-
Don't believe the 110 can turn with an La-7, it might be able to though. If I was the la7 I'd just keep spiralling upward in one direction till the 110 stalled out... no reversing.
-
Hallo,
just my experiences. Nothing is written in stone.
190 - I can out roll the LaLa all day, Can you say scissor or overshoot? Ironically, I use the La7s best attribute against it. Its fast, but doesnt handle nearly as well as a 190 at those speeds.
Overshooting isnt realy a bad thing as long as you have high speed and change back your e for altitude.
Beeing out braked ( which is overshooting as well), no matter what plane, in a tight turnfight should give you a smile because of the cleverness of your opponent and his excellent feel for timing (SA).
Yes, 190 can scissor like hell. But you cant scissor as long as you have any advantage. The enemy has to be somewhere behind you to scissor him. Tough 190 pilots which maneuver themselves in disadvantage for sucessfull scissoring. :eek:
110 - I can out turn the La7 all day and Hell, all im really looking for is one pass in front of my nose. 4 20mm and 2 30mm cannons can have a devistating effect of our little Russian friend.
Maybe a light 110 can out turn La7. I am not realy shure if they can. The 110 should 'surprise' them within the first 2 or 3 turns. After that, its going to be tough.
But good pilots dont want to turn against 110 when they are in a speedy La7/109g10. They easily position themselves above the 110 and then its a kind of cherry picking.
109 - I accelerate almost as well and climb almost as well, so I keep the fight close. I can out rudder the La7 so im looking for a verticle fight, not a turn fight.
Imho, in a 109g10, above 15k, its better to e fight la7s. And sooner or later, La7s dive away then or die.
Below 15k, its a close match. Keep it tight consequently. That means excessive use of flaps and throttle.
But what, if la7s do the same? Probably, then its going to be sweaty. And thats why i pay for the game. Maximum adrenalin. :)
Ecke
-
The 110 can quite easily outturn the LA7, not sure why all twins in AH turn and accelerate so great.
La7 is just a target btw :D
-
Why would a La7 do flat turns when having a brutal advantage in climbing? Why would it follow any scissors when it excels in hi yo-yos? It is like an uber 109G10 with good hi speed control and much better roll rate. Some posts here seem to explain how to exploit the absolute lack of skill of the average La7 pilot more than really how to take advantage of the advantages of the La. IMO, the only La7 killer is the Yak9U.
-
I think you guys are "nuking" things a bit. All very good points. Simply put, the La la is a very fast plane, but get it into a turning fight and it's done. The only other attribute besides the speed is fire power. :D
-
Originally posted by MikkaMan
Pardon me if I'm not up on my facts about the La7, but having flown for only for a few weeks in AH, it seems that the La7 was the best fighter or WWII according to its performance in this game.
WW2 wasn't a gladiator pit like AH.
-
Hallo Wilbus,
Originally posted by Wilbus
The 110 can quite easily outturn the LA7, not sure why all twins in AH turn and accelerate so great.
La7 is just a target btw :D
You are probably talking about an average La7 pilot which you find everywhere in the MA. Unexperienced pilots (bad boys would call them shreckinskillessrunninglaladw eeb on ch1 ;) )
If you would fight against yourself..what do you think which Wilbus will win the fight? The Wilbus in the 110 or the Wilbus in the La7?
:)
Isnt speed the key?
Greetings,
Ecke
-
Hey Hornet,
Originally posted by Hornet1
... Simply put, the La la is a very fast plane, but get it into a turning fight and it's done.... :D
How will you get the La7 into a turn fight? That works only with a plane which is faster.
When it is a good La7 pilot, he decides when its time for a turn
fight. And then he comes with advantage.
Isnt it?
Ecke
-
Originally posted by Furball
I love the La-7, its awesome in AH. I feel confident vs. any enemy in any situation in it. The only plane i do not really like encountering in it is a coalt/higher Spit IX.
i love taking on spits in one. the thing is to get them before the rest of the horde arrives.
niki's are just as yummy.
but the yummiest of all are the FWeenies.
-
not sure why all twins in AH turn and accelerate so great.
I don't agree with you there wil.:)
Been flying the mossie quite a bit this tour and it has terrible acceleration. I would rate it worse than the f4u-1.
-
I'm usually flying a P-51D, and at low altitudes i generally try to avoid fighting La-7's on my own, because I always get my bellybutton handed to me. But at higher alts, over 10k, they don't seem to be much more of a problem than any other decent plane.
-
And it is acceleration what makes La7 an airborne monster, not just top speed.
-
MikkaMan,
The LA-7 is hard to fight against for the reasons you mentioned, IF you are flying a plane that is not a great turner. The best option is to force and overshoot, which is a skill within itself.
If you fly good turning planes however, you can always turn to evade the LA, easiest most natural defensive move in the book. Wear down his E, hope he's new and tries to turn with you, force a HO, or keep breaking till help arrives.
eskimo
-
Hey Eskimo,
If you fly good turning planes however,....Wear down his E, hope he's new and tries to turn with you,, force a HO,....
Why to force HO against a newbie La7 when in a good turner?
Thats a bad tip.Why should you be happy with a 50:50 chance when you can get more?
We have enough pilots in the MA which only can ho.
Ecke
-
Originally posted by Ecke-109-
Hey Eskimo,
Why to force HO against a newbie La7 when in a good turner?
Thats a bad tip.Why should you be happy with a 50:50 chance when you can get more?
We have enough pilots in the MA which only can ho.
Ecke
Imagine an A6M-5 vs looping LA-7. If he always holds a 100+ mph advantage over you, you are low and alone, have blown his shot 5 times by turning, but he won't blow his E, what more can you get? You can keep turning and hope he gets frustrated, but if he is flying with discipline he will probably land hits on you first. I would certainly force a HO in this situation. And if you think a HO is a 50:50 crap-shoot, then you don't know how to HO.
100% defensive never wins. A HO is offensive.
eskimo
-
Ok,
now i got it.
You confused me a bit because you first talked about a newbie La7 pilot. A newbie will probably never loop. He goes into a turn fight no matter what plane. And i hope you will agree that in this situation it is unnecessary to ho.
And i agree,If the La7 is more experienced, and tries to rope a slower plane, a ho could be the only way.
And if you think a HO is a 50:50 crap-shoot, then you don't know how to HO.
Sorrily, we cant proof how much ho are sucessfull and 'skillfull'.
I know how to ho in certain situations. But its much better to know how to be sucessfull without ho. I do ho by myself from time to time. But its always a desperate last move. ( Hajo..you remember me :) )
50:50, 70:30, 30:70 who cares? Its always a gamble. And nothing to be proud of. (I am not talking about you)
Ecke
-
Ecke,
I guess I wasn't clear when I said, "Wear down his E, hope he's new and tries to turn with you, force a HO, or keep breaking till help arrives."
I meant this as four different options, dependent on what he does, and his experience.
eskimo