Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on January 01, 2004, 11:49:58 AM
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This Pastor has guts!! (warning cut/paste)
Thought you might enjoy this interesting prayer given in Kansas at the opening session of their Senate. It seems prayer still upsets some people.
When Minister Joe Wright was asked to open the new session of the Kansas Senate, everyone was expecting the usual generalities, but this is what they heard:
"Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and to seek your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, 'Woe to those who call evil good,' but that is exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.
We confess that we have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and call it Pluralism.
We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.
We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.
We have killed our unborn and called it choice.
We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.
We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building
self esteem.
We have abused power and called it politics.
We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.
We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.
We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.
Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free.
Guide and bless these men and women who have been sent to direct us to the center of Your will and to openly ask these things in the name of
Your Son, the living Savior, Jesus Christ.
Amen!"
The response was immediate. A number of legislators walked out during the prayer in protest..
In 6 short weeks, Central Christian Church, where Rev. Wright is pastor, logged more than 5,000 phone calls with only 47 of those calls responding negatively.
The church is now receiving international requests for copies of this prayer from India, Africa and Korea.
Commentator Paul Harvey aired this prayer on his radio program, "The Rest of the Story," and received a larger response to this program than any other he has ever aired.
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Snopes says mostly true.
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/wright.htm
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Why does he have guts for doing this? It's not like he can be 'fired' for it. To have guts for doing something, there should be an element of personal risk to ones self.
There are plenty of people out there with actual guts. This guy ain't one of them. There's a reason why one phrase goes 'preaching to the choire'.
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He has gutts becuase he aint one of the many leg humping masses.
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Ah, I see the problem. You have confused 'guts' with 'being unique'.
Additionally, I think you're quite mistaken at thinking he's unique. There are plenty of other people who point the finger of condemnation while standing on a rotten plank.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Ah, I see the problem. You have confused 'guts' with 'being unique'.
Additionally, I think you're quite mistaken at thinking he's unique. There are plenty of other people who point the finger of condemnation while standing on a rotten plank.
Guts are what you have for posting a link to your "halloween" costume.
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Gotta agree with Nuke on this one...
:D
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Heh heh heh....
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
This Pastor has guts!! (warning cut/paste)
Thought you might enjoy this interesting prayer given in Kansas at the opening session of their Senate. It seems prayer still upsets some people.
When Minister Joe Wright was asked to open the new session of the Kansas Senate, everyone was expecting the usual generalities, but this is what they heard:
"Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and to seek your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, 'Woe to those who call evil good,' but that is exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.
We confess that we have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and call it Pluralism.
We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.
We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.
We have killed our unborn and called it choice.
We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.
We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building
self esteem.
We have abused power and called it politics.
We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.
We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.
We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.
Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free.
Guide and bless these men and women who have been sent to direct us to the center of Your will and to openly ask these things in the name of
Your Son, the living Savior, Jesus Christ.
Amen!"
The response was immediate. A number of legislators walked out during the prayer in protest..
In 6 short weeks, Central Christian Church, where Rev. Wright is pastor, logged more than 5,000 phone calls with only 47 of those calls responding negatively.
The church is now receiving international requests for copies of this prayer from India, Africa and Korea.
Commentator Paul Harvey aired this prayer on his radio program, "The Rest of the Story," and received a larger response to this program than any other he has ever aired.
How refreshing to read this! Thanks for the post
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true ... every sad word of it.
that's telling em Joe!
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Uhhh....preaching this to the Kansas Senate isn't exactly a hostile environment. He had nothing at risk...there is no guts required for his little speech. Of course, I bet he is absolutely pure of thought and motivation.
Also, I'm not sure who the "we" is that he is referring to.
That's like saying it was wayyy better when we were kids, because parents disciplined and taught respect.
Well then, since we liked that so much and we're the parents now, why isn't the same now as when we grew up?
I mean, after all, aren't we the ones now that control that??
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TSK TSK TSK....its seems like when ever somone posts somthing with some really good content (IMHO) the nay sayers will go after somthing totally trivial rather than the content itself.
Ah, I see the problem. You have confused 'guts' with 'being unique'.
don't people who are not afraid to be unique have some level of "guts" Yes he can stand up and preach condemnation but to do it at a senate opening were normal opening speaches are bland and speak his mind takes GUTS!
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Yes he can stand up and preach condemnation but to do it at a senate opening were normal opening speaches are bland and speak his mind takes GUTS!
Yes, it's all so very old testament to preach condemnation... good show.
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Shock value. Even churches need publicity to bring revenue.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Yes, it's all so very old testament to preach condemnation... good show.
Maybe you missed this line?
"Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free."
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No... I didn't miss this one either...
"Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
No... I didn't miss this one either...
"Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37
Sounds like good advice to me. I was only pointing out that it wasn't only old testament. The part about acknowledging and repenting from sin is very new testament, i.e.
John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
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We confess that we have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and call it Pluralism. - And we deem it sacrilege to question that your word is best translated into god's English.
We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery. - And thou hast neglected to answer my prayers each and every time I hast played.
We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare. - For thine chosen ones shall have the coin of the realm and need no help in thy good name.
We have killed our unborn and called it choice. - And yea we have lost the dominion over thy women.
We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable. - And have rejoiced in the freedoms thine 2nd Amendment has bestowed.
We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building
self esteem. - For thy rod and thy staff comforted me many a time Oh lord.
We have abused power and called it politics. - Amen
We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition. - For thouest knows that only the communist system was in thine eyes the only covetless and thus most godlike.
We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression. - And we shall hasten to send those pornographers to hell and damnation... the F***ers.
We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment. - For our forefathers knew all and needed not the onerous "freedom of expression", nor did their slaves.
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Exposing sin and calling for repentance is a primary responsibility of a church leader. I can understand why this makes so many uncomfortable or even angry.
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:19
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Religion is essentially just 'my imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend'. I'm a good person. I don't kill or hurt people, I give a lot to charity, and I try to help others whenever I can. I don't do it because I'm worried that I'll go to hell if I don't, I do it because I think its right.
Maybe if you're a religious type, you look at this guy with reverent respect and adoration because of his position. To everyone else, he's just a blow hard pointing a finger and not caring if 10 fingers point back.
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I think you're denying religion's influence over you Chairboy. Where did you get your sense of "right"?
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Circular argument, Iron. Do you suggest that no good can exist without religion? Religion has served its purpose and has done some good things, but it's foolish to treat it as anything other than a device for scaring people into doing good.
It was used as a framework to implement good behavior back when most people found it more convenient to just watch out for themselves, even at the expense of others. For the most part, mission accomplished.
Now that it's clear what's happened, why should I spend my time worshipping make believe gods?
It's not worth talking about, I guess. Religious people have tunnel vision and are fine with their fantasy, and it's not my responsibillity to convince them otherwise.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
We confess that we have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and call it Pluralism. - And we deem it sacrilege to question that your word is best translated into god's English.
We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery. - And thou hast neglected to answer my prayers each and every time I hast played.
We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare. - For thine chosen ones shall have the coin of the realm and need no help in thy good name.
We have killed our unborn and called it choice. - And yea we have lost the dominion over thy women.
We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable. - And have rejoiced in the freedoms thine 2nd Amendment has bestowed.
We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building
self esteem. - For thy rod and thy staff comforted me many a time Oh lord.
We have abused power and called it politics. - Amen
We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition. - For thouest knows that only the communist system was in thine eyes the only covetless and thus most godlike.
We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression. - And we shall hasten to send those pornographers to hell and damnation... the F***ers.
We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment. - For our forefathers knew all and needed not the onerous "freedom of expression", nor did their slaves.
Chairboy although I only partially agree with you....MT that was funny :rofl
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Circular argument, Iron. Do you suggest that no good can exist without religion? Religion has served its purpose and has done some good things, but it's foolish to treat it as anything other than a device for scaring people into doing good.
It was used as a framework to implement good behavior back when most people found it more convenient to just watch out for themselves, even at the expense of others. For the most part, mission accomplished.
Now that it's clear what's happened, why should I spend my time worshipping make believe gods?
It's not worth talking about, I guess. Religious people have tunnel vision and are fine with their fantasy, and it's not my responsibillity to convince them otherwise.
While I'll agree that the argument can become circular I will argue that the desire to be "good" comes from God and not from fear of being punished. And I agree, waste no time worshipping make believe gods.
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Originally posted by AKIron
...I will argue that the desire to be "good" comes from God and not from fear of being punished.
...and everyone that does not believe in your god is therefore inherently evil?
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religion is nothing but the codification of communal norms and ethos with modifications to enable the few to have power over the many.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
...and everyone that does not believe in your god is therefore inherently evil?
I don't see how you got that from anything I've ever posted here.
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"
Romans 3:23
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Originally posted by Shane
religion is nothing but the codification of communal norms and ethos with modifications to enable the few to have power over the many.
Sounds logical enough but that doesn't make it true.
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not all power is abused, nor do all abuse power. you could also substitute "influence" for "power" if that makes it more palatable.
one must bear in mind that almost all religions have roots going way back and are deeply ingrained into the current communal psyches. even tho' one may not be a follower per se, their upbringing has been influenced to an extent by the community they've been raised in. it just goes to show that people are basically socially cooperative animals who still have even deeper ingrained territorial and flight or fight instincts.
you don't see any religions getting started these days that grow to more than "weirdo-cult" types, but in a few centuries, who's to say where some of these current cults might end up in the religious food-chain. within the past few hundred years, we have seen christianity undergo various splits into denominations as like-minded people disagreed with their current power-structure/doctrines and splintered off.
i think there's room for many religions, each has their own pros and cons; some are more dangerous to civilization than others. to each their own, birds of a feather and all that.
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I think it would take guts for a pastor to allow debate.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I don't see how you got that from anything I've ever posted here.
You stated that the desire to be good comes from God.
Can I reject your god and still be a good person? Does this goodness come from the same source? Does your god compel Wiccans, Budhists, Hindus, etc. to be good?
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Originally posted by SirLoin
I think it would take guts for a pastor to allow debate.
Many have forums for just that. Some in private sessions and some in what many call "Sunday School".
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
You stated that the desire to be good comes from God.
Can I reject your god and still be a good person? Does this goodness come from the same source? Does your god compel Wiccans, Budhists, Hindus, etc. to be good?
I wouldn't use the word compel. I think it's part of our nature. The part that is created in his image. The part that can only be fully realized by communing with him.