Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wanker on January 02, 2004, 02:49:26 PM
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Ok, I've had it with VHS tapes and 25 year old technology. I'm looking for something digital to use to record from satellite and local cable channels. I don't want the monthly expense of using TiVO, however.
I'm currently debating between DVD Recorders with a HDD in them, and DVD recorders without, that just record onto DVD's.
Anyone have a DVD Recorder with the HDD inside? How is the picture quality when watching shows recorded onto the HDD?
Thanks in advance!
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banana
Whats a HDD?
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I just use TiVo.
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Whats a HDD?
HarD-Drive
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TIVO is the way to go - no commercials 1/3 the price of the dvd/hd combo <- these will push tivo prices lower and will come down - too expensive now..
no fee if you pay TIVO the couple hundred buck lifetime thingy
what programs would you want on DVD , er , that's you'd view more than once or twice -unless you are going to pirate your HBO movies and what not..
just from digital home movies to dvd, an avi takes 3mb's a second - that gives you about an hour of quality video on a 4.7 gig dvd. Don't know what compression schemes they use to get more on the dvd but who wants to watch anything but the best quality.. then again some ppl watch vcd/svcd grainy stuff and are happy :)
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Beta and/or Laser Disc
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Who's your satellite provider, banana? I know Dish has digital recording receivers that don't require a monthly fee and do integrate the programming guide. I'm sure DirecTV probably has something like this too.
Recordable DVD would be a pain in the ass, I'd pay the retarded TIVO lifetime fee before doing that.
Another option is to build one yourself...here's a link to a story/info about doing it: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1396375,00.asp. A friend sent me a url to a more recent, and better, article, but I can't find the link!
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My satellite provider is Directv, but I also have a basic subscription to my local cable company to get my local news channels, as they are not available via satellite yet.
So I don't really need/want the desire to burn DVD's, so I've considered the TiVO lifetime subscription, but TiVO requires a land line for the intial setup. We don't have any land lines in our house, as we switched to cell phones about two years ago. I could have a land line re-activated, of course, but then that's another $10-14/month just to have TiVO.
One interesting thing I learned about TiVO is that while it requires a land line for the intial setup, once that is accomplished, you can disconnect it from the land line and use a broadband USB adapter and it'll use your broadband connection to download the info it needs.
It's starting to look like TiVO is the way to go, but if I do that, I'll need the TiVO box that can record from satellite and cable. I think the Directv recorders can only record from Directv. At least that's what the rep on the phone told me.
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I looked for just one thing when I bought a DVD player... component video outputs.
The picture is amazing.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I looked for just one thing when I bought a DVD player... component video outputs.
The picture is amazing.
only if the tv has component video inputs :)
don't forget a good surround sound system for the flicks with 5.1
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ever think theres a reason VHS lasted 25 years??? just keep your video head clean and it'll do just fine ya psychos
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Build your own PVR. You can use old computers you have laying around (500mhz-1ghz), you just need a $40-50 TV tuner card. Use free DVR software like mythtv (http://www.mythtv.net) which can download TV listings for free off the internet, and you're set.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Build your own PVR. You can use old computers you have laying around (500mhz-1ghz), you just need a $40-50 TV tuner card. Use free DVR software like mythtv (http://www.mythtv.net) which can download TV listings for free off the internet, and you're set.
if you go the PC route (who wants to watch tv on a pc ?) check out http://www.titantv.com
you can set it up to schedule your recordings from their tv guide
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Originally posted by vorticon
ever think theres a reason VHS lasted 25 years??? just keep your video head clean and it'll do just fine ya psychos
VHS is unwatchable on a quality tv.
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IagreewithgrunherzthereIsaidi t.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I agree with grunherz there I said it.
For the visually impaired. :lol
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A clarification, when I said 'make your own PVR', I didn't mean 'watch TV on a PC', I meant 'build a PVR and make use of the TV-Out to run the output to your television.
Additionally, when I said 'download tv listings for free off the internet', I guess I neglected to mention that MythTV (which is free) can USE those listings to schedule recordings.
I apologize to those whose imaginations failed my first post.
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banana, if you buy the Tivo, just take it to a friend's house and do the initial setup call there. It's a local number and only takes about 15 minutes or so of actual phone time. Then set it to update via ethernet. I did that with mine a few months back and it's worked flawlessly ever since.
One benefit of building your own PVR (ala MythTV) is you can have multiple video capture cards, one for cable and one for satellite. As I understand it they can even record both those sources at once. I don't think there's a Tivo or other PVR that can do more than one video input. Some satellite versions can record two shows at once from satellite but that's not the same thing. You could always buy two Tivos. :)
Tivo is so easy to setup and use I'm happy I bought it instead of spending time to build my own PVR. If you have a lot of free time and patience, then building your own PVR may be a good option. But consider that the wife and kids will appreciate a reliable, easy to use Tivo right out of the box.
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If you had DiSH then there would be no subscription for the PVR service.
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Called Directv yesterday, and they confirmed that their DVR's would be able to record from directv only. That's fine for recording off of satellite, but I also have a basic subscription to my local cable company for the local news channels.
Anyone know if DISH DVR's are able to record from DISH as well as a local cable connection?
BTW Sandman, Both my TV's (-2yrs old JVC iArt) have component video inputs, so I definately want something with component outputs. I'm using S-video connections right now, but can't wait to see the difference with component.
A "Do-it-yourself" DVR is an interesting idea, but my PC is in a completely different room from my TV's, and I'd rather just buy a commercial box that sits near the TV and doesn't look homemade.
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banana they make computer cases now that look like vcr/cable box/tivo enclosures. Home theater PC (HTPC). http://www.avsforum.com is a good place to start.
http://tinylink.com/?LtSRQ3FT90
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It costs an arm and a leg, but I'm pleased with Comcast cable both for computer and for TV. Finally splurged for Video On Demand, which like Tivo lets YOU control your TV schedule at your convenience in addition to freeing you from commercials.
Haven't tried recording DVDs on the setup, and doubt if I will, at least until the DVD standards settle down into one universal system.
Also waiting for HDTV sets to get MUCH more affordable. Meanwhile, the digital cable does provide a better picture than just analog. I don't think that's just hype -- the higher numbered digital channels look better to my eyes.
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Originally posted by Halo
It costs an arm and a leg, but I'm pleased with Comcast cable both for computer and for TV. Finally splurged for Video On Demand, which like Tivo lets YOU control your TV schedule at your convenience in addition to freeing you from commercials.
Haven't tried recording DVDs on the setup, and doubt if I will, at least until the DVD standards settle down into one universal system.
Also waiting for HDTV sets to get MUCH more affordable. Meanwhile, the digital cable does provide a better picture than just analog. I don't think that's just hype -- the higher numbered digital channels look better to my eyes.
HAlo
digital will always be cleaner looking than analog channels. As soon as cable can go 100% digital, it will help all cable customers. You can fit at least 6 digital channels in 6mhz bandwidth one crappy analog now sucks up. Not to mention cleaner transmission the digital channels & fiber hubs allow. Everything is going On Demand. We have HBO, SHowtime, Cinemax to name a few on demand now. As bandwidth is available and VOD proves lucritive, you'll see more of it. Takes a good cable system to provide streaming video needed for a trouble free VOD system. Many systems aren't there yet.
All sat channels are digital, thus the superior quality over most cable co's. One good thing sats are doing is getting joe six pack away from the "Cable ready" tv set mentality...forcing him to use a set top box.
They just released the digital boxes with DVR built in. Can watch one channel while recording two others. Makes any tv picture in picture capable. Nice but not as fast or customer friendly as TIVO.
and if you think digital is good, wait until you get HD. We have about a dozen channels now on Hi-Def including inDemand shows.
and can't forget about Road Runner ... sats can't do that either :)
been a cable guy since 79 ... pre MTV (and most other programming) :)
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Hi Eagler,
Yeah, we have that cable-provided DVR recorder, and it's great. Although tempermental ... sometimes have to fiddle with it to make it remember what it is supposed to be doing.
We're now supposedly in some sort of quasi almost HDTV mode with the digital cable, but I realize I'll eventually have to get a genuine HDTV to get the full thrills. I want a 42- or 48-inch wide screen thin screen HDTV for about $900 -- is that unreasonable?
Oh. Well, maybe by 2008.
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Digital cable is not even quasi HDTV. It has 1/2 the quality of the lowest HDTV signal (480p).
Some unethical cable companies have tried to equate digital TV with HD, and it's a real shame because some people have fallen for it.
Digital cable is, at best, good VHS quality with digital audio.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Digital cable is not even quasi HDTV. It has 1/2 the quality of the lowest HDTV signal (480p).
Some unethical cable companies have tried to equate digital TV with HD, and it's a real shame because some people have fallen for it.
Digital cable is, at best, good VHS quality with digital audio.
wrong again cboy
1080i here with 5.1 sound - if the movie/show is broadcast in that format. sorry we don't upconvert on our own - yet :)
that is all the locals, discovery hd, showtime, hbo, 2 indemand movie channels, ESPN HD to follow...
starting a beta test this month with the new Scientific Atlanta HD-DVR 8000 series set tops.. DVR HiDef - can your tivo/sat_dvr do that?
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banana, to answer your question. I have DiSH and opted for the local channels over the SAT connection. It was a $5.00/month add on.
No reason for you to have cable. You should be able to get local stations over DiSH.
The cable company here converted to digital last year and they are already having serious outage problems. Seems when the cable layers put in the fiber, they only buried it 2 inches in the ground, and did not use jacketed fiber. You can pretty much guess what has happened.
Just walk in the yard and you can hear cable shattering under your feet when the ground is damp.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
banana, to answer your question. I have DiSH and opted for the local channels over the SAT connection. It was a $5.00/month add on.
No reason for you to have cable. You should be able to get local stations over DiSH.
The cable company here converted to digital last year and they are already having serious outage problems. Seems when the cable layers put in the fiber, they only buried it 2 inches in the ground, and did not use jacketed fiber. You can pretty much guess what has happened.
Just walk in the yard and you can hear cable shattering under your feet when the ground is damp.
but what about high speed intardnet??
from my experiance DSL no match for cable stability and speed. (at least from freinds in the same suburab community)
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And cable Internet service around here is a joke. It is all area dependent JB.
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cc that .. this suburab is decent in the fact there arent a ton of users so my speed is great. real stable too... but prolly in 2-3 years it will be like any other city... unstable and unreliable
will keep it runing while it lasts !
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cc that...cable internet around here has been absolutely fantastic in my experience through AT&T w/@home, AT&T Broadband, and now Comcast. No problems with gaming and it's very fast for the price compared to the DSL options around here. $45/mo (I already had $10 basic cable, otherwise the internet would be $55 by itself). Download speeds between 170 - 220 KBps, and Comcast said they'd be doubling the speed the first quarter of next year with no cost increase (we'll se :)).
Digital cable around here, on the other hand, is beyond worthless.
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Skuzzy, that shallow cable installation in your area sounds incredibly lax. Why waste all that effort to give cable such flimsy protection? That company is penny wise and pound foolish.
Cable in this area is buried pretty deep, about two feet I think. Never heard of any problems with that.
Cable has become an indispensable part of our household in spite of its expense. I remember when phone modem downloads would start at 3 kilobytes per sec and deteriorate to barely more than 1 KB sec.
Now it's nothing to download multimegabytes at speeds always over 200 KB sec and sometimes more than 300 KB sec. Incredible. And cable gives me an open phone line too, like having a second phone.
After some of the latest cable improvements, technician came out and upgraded the connections in my house cable box and yard cable box, and that definitely improved quality and stability.
We've had cable in this Northern Virginia area a long time, with Comcast being the latest operator.
Eagler, we have the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000, and to me the higher number channels, supposedly some sort of high definition digital, are definitely sharper than the lower number analog channels.
If I recall correctly, I think that box is supposed to provide HDTV if you have an HDTV monitor without any other HDTV box needed. I can't verify that since I don't have an HDTV monitor ... yet.
However ... the SciAtl box does not have connections for component cables ... yet. It does have connections for S-video, 1394, and Digital Audio out.
Go figure. It's all evolving.
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Originally posted by Eagler
wrong again cboy
1080i here with 5.1 sound - if the movie/show is broadcast in that format. sorry we don't upconvert on our own - yet :)
that is all the locals, discovery hd, showtime, hbo, 2 indemand movie channels, ESPN HD to follow...
starting a beta test this month with the new Scientific Atlanta HD-DVR 8000 series set tops.. DVR HiDef - can your tivo/sat_dvr do that?
Sorry Eagler, as usual, it is you that is in the wrong.
In my post, I said that the lowest HDTV signal was 480p. The digital cable signal is 480i, which is 1/2 the resolution of 480p since it takes two refreshes of the NTSC field to paint an image.
I have a 60" HDTV, and I also am using 1080i (which is the 2nd best HDTV rez). Before you tear a tendon in a spasm of righteous indignation, I am talking about 720p as being better then 1080 since it's a high resolution progressive signal instead of an interlaced signal. It's not that big of a deal if you have a good line doubler, and I do, but it's still real. If you go by pure numbers, 1080i is higher resolution, but I prefer the look of progressive signals. My TV doesn't support it, I finally settled on a TV that had other features I wanted (instead of 720p) because it didn't look like there was a lot of interest in cable or satellite companies offering 720p.
Perhaps you should really reconsider posting in public, you keep embarrassing yourself.
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sry cboy
if you state digital cable channels are not any better than VHS, I would like to see your VCR :)
as usual, you post inaccurate info to throw off the lesser informed
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I don't disagree Halo. It is why cable connections are very area dependent as to quality.
I remember, fresh after the fiber was laid, my neighbor was mowing his yard and destroyed the fiber cable (apparently the installers took the most direct route instead of adhering to the right-of-ways) and (then AT&T) was going to charge him just over $3,000.00 to repair the damage.
After 6 months of legal hassles, he ended up having to pay $500.00 for the repair. During that time the cable lay busted in his yard with several homes without cable.
The entire neighborhood was fed up with it, so everyone switched to DiSH.
The cable is pretty much destroyed in this neighborhood. The cable had surfaced in my backyard so I called Comcast and told them. They said it would be 6 months, or so, before they could repair it.
So, I took many pictures and pulled up about 50 feet of cable and tied it to the buried cable warning pole, which was about 25 feet from where the cable was really laid.
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Whew, that is scary, Skuzzy. Amazing how some installations go awry.
In that vein (trench?), we've had a front gas lamp that has been turned off for years. With no plans to revive it, I got concerned when it began leaning a little bit.
I asked the gas company to disconnect it. Just before that, on another utility matter, all the buried lines in our yard (water, electric, telephone, gas, cable) were marked by another contractor.
The gas company crew dug where the other contractor said the gas line was. And dug. And dug some more. After a three-foot hole on one side of the driveway, the crew came over next to the lamp and found the gas lamp line was on a diagonal to the main line, not a perpendicular line as the other contractor had marked.
In spite of some specific exceptions, sometimes it's amazing how well things seem to work in general. Your story about your cable, though, is the one of the worst utility goofs I've ever heard. I hope some day it gets fixed and you can enjoy the benefits of a good cable system.
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I still have cable, but my friends assure me that a bad satellite system is still better then the finest cable. Can anyone respond as to how accurate that is?
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It depends if all the cable channels are in digital or not. Satellite is all digital.
One of the biggest reasons for me going to satellite tv was because my cable company has a monoply in my area, and doesn't give a crap about the quality of their product. The advent of Directv and DISH is a great thing for everyone who formerly had no choice for cable.
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hmm...heres a basic rundown of my horrific cable story
day 1. some new guy from out of town comes in and installs cable...turns out that due to our rabbits the cable in the house had been down for a looong time (luckily we never used it) so he says he'll be back soon to put in a new one
day 8. he comes back runs the line above ground on the fence...promises to have it buried as soon as the ground thaws...
day 400 after 1 year of maximum 40kb/s downloads and general poor performance we lose the computer...
day 410 new computer bought we transfer over to dsl hell (ive told the story before...)
day 415 after 5 days of bull**** with the dsl we transfer back to cable...guy comes in buries the cable and sets us up...also turns out we have basic cable with the internet...since then weve had generally good performance (though pings are a bit high)
and in generall satellite tv is better than cable (more channels easier use better picture quality...and the tv we had satellite on was over 20 years old!)
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one plus for sat is that it is portable
in-laws travel in their RV and have a set they take with them on the road
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A few quick questions. If you have a good non-progressive DVD and a HD enabled TV that supports 480p, is it worth buying a good progressive unit? Is the picture quality that different?
I've also looked at setting up my own PVR (as with SOB's link) but this is the stumbling block for me.
On top of that, digital cable and satellite TV add complexity. Most TV tuners for the PC are still mired in broadcast TV. That means they work great with an antenna or through analog cable. But digital cable and satellite TV are self-contained, require a decoder and only output to one channel on the TV. This makes the nifty channel switching available to PC-based TV tuner cards moot.
I already have a fairly powerful PC in the entertainment center for MP3 playback (visualization studio is great with the unlimited, random 6 gigs of playback) and Web surfing, so the foundation is there. With the drop in DVD recorder prices it's even more compelling. Is there a solution out now that would make the scheduling process easier?
Charon
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Is there a solution out now that would make the scheduling process easier?
Charon
I use an ATI AIW 9800 for my PVR box that I built and it came with a program called guideplus from the company that writes TV Guide. It's channel display is exactly like a DirecTV channel listing and you simply left click on the programs you want and tell it to record them. you can search for shows and have it automatically record shows you put on your favorites list. It has 4 levels of recording quality, all of which are excellent. The card also came with an RF remote. In my search for different software I looked at sageTV and snapstreams PVR software but I liked guideplus the best. My PVR system is simply an Nforce2 board, 1ghz CPU, 200GB hard drive, DVD player, and the AIW9800. I use a wireless NIC card to hook it up to my network.
Just this past week I recorded the last 45 episodes of the original Twilight zone to burn on DVD. Now I have the entire series on DVD.
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Thanks Viperman. Just to make sure its apples to apples, I have that comcast digital cable setup, and I figure it would work fine on the analog channels but I wonder about the digital channels that require the set-top-box.
Charon
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Question for you satellite users: Do you get many interruptions? Today, as I was waiting at a car dealer for my car to be serviced , its waiting area TV had many interruptions of its satellite connection being broken or tested or something ... more text on screen than picture. That kept up for the several hours I was there.
Over the weekend, at a friend's house with satellite TV, same thing. Frequent interruptions, often brief, but interruptions just the same.
Friend tells me he is going to chop down one of his large trees because at certain times it disrupts his satellite signal. He also says in some heavy rain satellite signal can also get disrupted.
That sort of interruption never happens with my cable connection, though cable occasionally will get balky with the latest Video On Demand recording.
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In the last year, I have had 3 interruptions in service. The longest lasted about 10 minutes.
When I had cable it was down at least once a month and the longest outage was for 4 days, with the next one being 3 days, which we interrupted when we cancelled the service and went with DiSH.