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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Hap on January 04, 2004, 03:20:28 PM

Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 04, 2004, 03:20:28 PM
anyone who wants to learn the nack, say aye.  will lay it out.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Flossy on January 04, 2004, 05:02:46 PM
Raises hand.  :)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 04, 2004, 05:28:30 PM
np dearie!! i used to be awful.  now pretty good. will lay it out.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 04, 2004, 05:31:57 PM
before take off find target.  find + on map that's closest to target.

find good intercet 1 that will place you 27.5 to 30 above.  accuracy is same 15k to 30k.  plan on bomb run n to s or s to n.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 04, 2004, 05:45:47 PM
while climbing out, keep an eye on drones above 16k'ish where
wind hits.  throttling back a bit will allow them to catch up.

drone characteristics aren't the same on all maps.

climb to 17 to 30 k allowing bout 1.5 to 2.0 sctors to turn into final run.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 04, 2004, 05:48:52 PM
it is possible to bomb from alt at full power, bout 285 in b17.  easier to throttle back to bout 160 and make manifold bout 38'ish.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 04, 2004, 05:52:20 PM
calibrate bout 15 miles out or so.  keep speed steady bout 150 to 160 or so.  i calibrate straight down at that speed.  very easy.  hit u, then x, then bracket in all the way and hold down y for a 20 count.  then click on target icon on map.  hit u.  and you done.

i'll recalibrate if my airspeed creeps up or down from prevous calib.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 04, 2004, 05:56:15 PM
over target, i'll aim for left or right 1/3 of factory or city.  in a 17, go salvo 8 and delay 1.00 with 500 lbers.  let go just after bombsight crosses margin of the bldgs.

i enjoy going f5 and f8 to watch straight down to see how the run worked.


throttle up.  turn a hair right or left to prepare for 2nd pass.  extend bout 15 miles.  then repeat.

gl

works like a charm btw.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Flossy on January 05, 2004, 01:00:21 PM
Thanks, Hap..... that's more or less how I do it most of the time; I just need to try and get consistent!  The other day, flying in your mission, I did great going N/S but going S/N completely missed.  Of course, it could have been that I rushed the calibration after being attacked south of the target, I don't know......  thanks, anyway.... I'll keep practicing.  :)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 05, 2004, 02:10:44 PM
when i miss, its cause i rushed my calib.  on e to w etc i notice i have to hold + still against crosswind.  but drop still good.  just more difficult.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Flossy on January 05, 2004, 03:14:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hap
when i miss, its cause i rushed my calib.  on e to w etc i notice i have to hold + still against crosswind.  but drop still good.  just more difficult.
Yeah, I'd like to think that rushing the calibration was the reason I missed.... I hope so.  I've also noticed having to hold the cross against the crosswind on E/W and similar headings.  

It's those pesky enemy fighters that screw things up all the time!  ;)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Flossy on January 06, 2004, 06:45:00 AM
Had a good run in the MA last night.  I decided to try a high-alt B17 run and climbed to 25K, going deep into Knit territory to bomb their Refinery.  Calibrated carefully, also allowing for crosswind as I was going in roughly E/W - and dropped perfectly on the target with my first 6 bombs.  
(http://www.flos.clara.net/storage/refineryhit.jpg)

Turned and recalibrated - this time I was a little bit long, but still managed to catch the far edge of the target and got some hits.  First really successful - and high-alt! - bombing run I have had in ages, definitely since the introduction of the current bombsight.  All I had to do after that was kill a pesky P47 that came up to meet me and then run for home.  I think the P47 reupped again and tried to catch up but never made it and eventually gave up.  I finally RTBd and landed safely.  Thanks, Hap.... hopefully now I have my bombing confidence back!  :)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 06, 2004, 09:13:16 AM
oh i know you will flo.  once one sees that it isn't hard.  and at least with factories accuracy is good all the way as high as you'd care to go, its fun and easy.  also get bout 11 perks or so :)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Flossy on January 06, 2004, 12:47:56 PM
LOL!  I obviously didn't do that well then!  Only got 4.81 perks.... still more than I've had for a while......  :)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 06, 2004, 02:20:05 PM
i think its the drone landing too.  that's where the 9 to 11 is
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Flossy on January 06, 2004, 02:30:53 PM
Ah, well I lost one drone when the P47 attacked, but the other drone landed directly behind me on the runway - one of my best landings to date also LOL.  So that 4.81 included the P47 kill as well of course.

(http://www.flos.clara.net/storage/refinerylanding.jpg)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Sway on January 06, 2004, 03:16:39 PM
B17 is also has low ENY value, so if you did that same thing in a different bomber, youd probably end up with 10 perks or so.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 06, 2004, 03:17:57 PM
i'd love to lanc only but she gets slower the higher she gets.  opposite for fortress.  so i fly it.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Sway on January 06, 2004, 03:34:53 PM
b26? :D  After bombin you can shoot some spits up the mans way. ;)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: SC-Mutt on January 14, 2004, 09:12:39 AM
Why is it that every time I calibrate, I Hold the crosshair on the target where I want the bombs to go, count to 20 holding the "Y" key, release it, etc etc.  Return to bombsight view, only to find my aimpoint is now to the RIGHT of the target by a few hundred yards??  
(Regardless of the altitude, heading, or wind)

Of course, I've made absoloutely ZERO changes or adjustments once I've calibrated. Result is the same regardless of AC type, and/or formation. Fast or slow, no diff.

While I do see a couple of things you point out that are sure to be of great help, (And I thank You!!), I didn't see the big "AHA!, so that's it!!" solution to my problem.  I'm sure it's something simple, But it has me feeling pretty stupid at the moment.

TIA
S!
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Flossy on January 14, 2004, 11:49:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SC-Mutt
Why is it that every time I calibrate, I Hold the crosshair on the target where I want the bombs to go,
I think you will get better results holding the crosshair on a (fully zoomed in) point on the ground directly below rather than on the target.  Since I have gone back to doing it that way, my results have been more consistent.  :)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: pellik on January 14, 2004, 12:54:42 PM
With 500 - 1000 lbs. bombs this method works fine, but do you have much luck with smaller bombs? Whenever I drop 100lbs bombs from above the wind layer I find I usually have to manually compensate for the drift. But I havn't been in a bomber for a while so I could just be imagining this.

-pellik
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: sonar732 on January 14, 2004, 05:31:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by fuze
Just a small thing I put together to assist bombing, not necessarily high altiitude.
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_211_1073161449.jpg
or http://www.onpoi.net/ah  and look under fuzeman.


The lettering can barely be seen decent enough to read...Nevermind...:D
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: fuzeman on January 14, 2004, 07:21:37 PM
Well.... ok
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Flossy on January 14, 2004, 08:08:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by pellik
With 500 - 1000 lbs. bombs this method works fine, but do you have much luck with smaller bombs?
Dunno, I always take BIG Bombs!  :D
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 16, 2004, 07:13:26 AM
never tried 100 lb bombs.  250's work fine though.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 16, 2004, 07:16:45 AM
mutt, sometime after calibrating i'm a tad off left or right.  i just bring her over via the bombsite to where i need to be.  

you are calibrating for alt and airspeed.  lining up is a matter of insterting the map in and using the +'s on the big maps at least.  

from f6 bombsite after calibration, if you need to whang her over 1 way or the other a bit, no prob.

gl

Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: SC-Mutt on January 16, 2004, 01:51:18 PM
Thanks for th replies, !

I think Flo may have nailed what I'm doing wrong tho, 'cuz I DO try and calibrate EARLY, and a while back someone told me to use the target to do it.  (Might've been the guy I told to hit "Enter" 3 times to start his engine...heheh)

S!
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Flossy on January 16, 2004, 01:58:35 PM
I think it was Kweassa's bombing tutorial thread that first mentioned pushing the joystick forward and holding the crosshair on the target;  however, having tried both methods, I've had more consistent success by holding it on a point immediately below - zoomed in as far as possible.  ;)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Soulyss on January 16, 2004, 03:25:23 PM
I'm not sure exactly how the calibration routine works in AH.  But I think the fact that if you aim for a point on the horizon for calibration the angle that the bombsight has to traverse to keep the corsshairs on your reference point is small.  Whereas if you calibrate at a nearby point or one directly beneath your airfraft the angle the bombsight makes as you hold on target is much much greater, ensuring a more accurate calibration.  

Course this all a hunch and I don't know if it has any basis in fact.  :)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Flossy on January 16, 2004, 04:45:34 PM
That's how I tend to think of it, Soulyss....  :)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: rod367th on January 17, 2004, 08:46:47 PM
bombing should be done always full speed.  and calibation should not be started untill doors open and at full speed.



 and always set target alt when you first take off and start your climb. Don't calibrate untill 5 to 10 miles out unless cons in sector. you set target alt at takeoff to save time incase your under attack when dropping . no need to wait to set target alt. Hitting hq with all 18 bombs in a b17 formation at 35 k is very easy. do search under my name read bombing 101. It will explain how to sink cv's kill entire towns or hit hq. last if your hitting a strat for points using 250's hurts score doesn't help. using anything less than 1000's hurts score and rank......................... if that is why your going to strat. ! sortie in b17 should get you 1 milllion points  for 1 formation sortie oits very easy to get 1 mil per sortie.......
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Easyscor on January 18, 2004, 01:03:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rod367th
...calibation should not be started untill doors open and at full speed...
From your post in the other thread I know this isn't what you meant to say.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: rod367th on January 18, 2004, 01:10:26 AM
you don't start calibration untill bomber at cruising speed and doors open..........is exactly what I meant to say.............:)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 18, 2004, 01:37:38 AM
anything rod says that differs from what i said, ignore me.  he bettah at it.

though i do from a very dweebish stand point hope my struggles at hi alt and the solution i found helped someone.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Halo on January 19, 2004, 11:09:29 AM
So (this is a question) crucial points in high alt bombing are:

1.  go to the map and verify direction and speed of crosswind (prevailing wind), usually 30 knots (mph?) at 16k;

2.  head directly into or away from crosswind (prevailing wind), not perpendicular to it;

3.  release bombs a little later heading into prevailing wind, and a little earlier heading away from it (tailwind).

While this would appear to be the most accurate course for high alt bombing, doesn't the elaborate bomb sighting procedure account for crosswind if not negated by always bombing directly into or away from it?
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Easyscor on January 20, 2004, 03:20:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Halo
3.  release bombs a little later heading into prevailing wind, and a little earlier heading away from it (tailwind).

No, the bomb sight calibration takes care of this.

While this would appear to be the most accurate course for high alt bombing, doesn't the elaborate bomb sighting procedure account for crosswind if not negated by always bombing directly into or away from it?

This is where your heading comes into play.  If you missjudge the correction for wind drift you will be forced to turn into the wind or down wind.  This will pretty much ruin your calibration if it's more than a very small correction.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 20, 2004, 05:09:51 AM
yes it does compensate for cross wind, but you've a harder job when you calibrate instead of just n to s you're also trying to hold the cross hairs steady e and w simultaneously.

try it off line above the wind layer.  you'll see it and feel it.
Title: Practice
Post by: sonar732 on January 27, 2004, 07:28:03 PM
I've been going offline to practice.  The only issue that I have is that I read on a website that most bombings take place at 10k from the base.  What would be the best alt to commit to a run?  Otherwise, I've been doing great!
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 28, 2004, 07:05:31 AM
i took her up to 30k offline and practiced on factories.  i found no accuracy probs over wind layer.  it's just a non issue if you bomb n to s.

if you get off that line, calibrating becomes more difficult.  not impossible, just more difficult.
Title: Wind
Post by: sonar732 on January 29, 2004, 04:08:27 PM
Where do I find the wind information?

IE...direction, speed?
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: simshell on January 29, 2004, 05:26:57 PM
first off dont care about score and dont be a score dweeb like rod here

i bomb factorys to help keep fuel ack radar troops down longer and they do take longer if you bomb the factory in the same zone


after doing test offline and trying to find out the best way to bomb a factory and best bomb size

the best place to aim is were those small fuel tanks are just try to hit as many as you can and hit anything that comes over the bombsight

a factory i think is about 5 lines across and  all your trying to do is take out the most you can so the small fuel tanks do as much as those huge fuel tanks and you can get alot more small tanks then doing a pass on those big fuel tanks


the best bomb size is 1000ib but depending on the bomber smaller bombs may be more useful

if your flying a B17 and your only going to do 1 bombing pass then take the 6-1000ibs if your doing more then 1 pass take smaller bombs

JU88 has the best bombing plantform nothing is more easy to bomb with maybe a TBM but the JU88 is great for new bomber pilots but its not well armed but if you get to the target and CAL right then you be asure your going to hit the target

the JU88 is great for strat bombing TO drop the 4 1000ibs on the first bombing pass and drop the 20-100ibs on the 2

the only bad thing about the JU88 is that its guns are very poor but due to the strong airframe you should be able to kill 2 enemys iv got 3 before in it
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Roscoroo on January 29, 2004, 05:44:08 PM
wind is on the kneeboard at the top the spiral shows the arenas wind and direction ...

its ussuallu at 16k and is in a northly direction


woo hooo  20,000 post in this thread :aok
Title: HI ALT BOMBING
Post by: CKMATE on January 29, 2004, 11:27:25 PM
***S***  All


thanks for posting tips.... i've had some horrible runs and some good runs. it's been an adjustment from aw bombing. going to try these "posts" offline.

                 
                  <
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on January 30, 2004, 10:46:48 AM
the method i laid out works very well on factories.  of course, there's more than 1 way to go about it.  

saw some discussion about bomb load.  i usu use 250's because that's all one needs to take out a bldg, or fuel, or ammo, etc.  also
gives you more passes.

in lanc's i forget what i use.  500's and the cookie?
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: simshell on January 30, 2004, 04:28:33 PM
il say simple

take a bomber form and drop 1 1000ib and of course all of your drones well drop one

and see how much it destroys

now take a bomber form and drop a 250ib and see how much it destroys

if making 1 bomber pass then take the 1000ibs if making more then 1 pass take the smaller bombs
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: fuzeman on January 30, 2004, 04:36:57 PM
" its ussuallu at 16k and is in a northly direction "

My thinking was the wind arrow describes where  the wind is from.
So wind is from the north at 16k alt at 30knts.
I tried this setting up wing like shown in MA and using airshow smoke. The smoke drifted south when I tried it.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Flossy on January 30, 2004, 05:08:17 PM
Try setting the wind at ground level and pointing a carrier in the direction you think should be into wind.  Then try taking off..... I think you'll find the arrow shows the direction the wind is flowing in.  :)
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: fuzeman on January 30, 2004, 05:50:11 PM
Roger wilco. Maybe I just proved I'm human.
Dang screwed up in January...... gonna be a long year.
Title: Lancaster III
Post by: sonar732 on February 01, 2004, 11:55:57 AM
I've flown all of the "true" bombers on offline and I personally like the Lancaster.  The opportunity to carry a 4000lb bomb and multiple 500lber's makes it very likeable.  :aok

Granted, online it probably sucks due to the limited defense, but it has more then the German counterpart.
Title: Hi-Alt Bombing
Post by: Hap on February 02, 2004, 08:47:58 AM
sonar i also like the lanc best.  3 things though to keep in mind.  the lanc dosen't like to get much above 25k.  i've had her to 27k and the last 2k was really hard lol.

the 303's are a bit of a prob.  as well as less defensive guns.

ah shucks, i forgot the 3rd.

on the plus side, at lvl flight the lanc is only bout 5 mph slower than the b-17 heavy or light.