Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on January 06, 2004, 07:17:25 AM
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http://www.germancarfans.com/News.cfm/NewsID/2040105.001/mercedes-benz/1.html
(Waves to the Ford GT)
(http://www.germancarfans.com/photos/3040105.001/1015.jpg)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
(Waves to the Ford GT)
Yea, so what? It may be faster and have 850HP but it will always lack one thing, the blue oval badge...
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Oh ya, the prototype made by "Benz".
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Originally posted by Monk
Oh ya, the prototype made by "Benz".
No! Chrysler chief Wolfgang Bernhard said it was an all American car.. ;)
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Ya, Wolfgang Bernhard.....my bust.;)
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Prototypes are not production cars. Most companies have made one-off freaks for publicity and/or transferable technology.
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Yeah, and after it hits 60 mph in that whopping 2.9 seconds, the tranny drops to the pavement and you come to a screeching halt in 2.9 seconds :D
I can say that cuz I'm a not so proud owner of a dodge ram going on its 2nd transmission in 60K miles. :(
I don't care how good/fast the car looks. I will never by dodge/chrylser again
KIA all the way!!!! :D
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
... but it will always lack one thing, the blue oval badge...
WOOHOOO!!, WTG !!!
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Thats interesting Modas, we have a Dodge Ram 1998 that has over 70k miles on it, never had trouble with the transmission. However, we do own a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee that has gone thru 3 transmissions. The first 2 lasted only about 10k miles each, the 3rd has lasted 130k with no problems.
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The dodge protype from "The Wraith" bragged an awe inspiring 100hp/liter for a grand total of 220hp. It got me thinking about an Oldsmobile I heard about from the late 80's where they were first playing with the Quad 4 and pushing it's performance. The prototype had a twin turbo quad 4 pushing 750hp (375hp/liter). I hear rumors that they actually got the engine up to 1200 HP, but can't find much on the web about it.
If we're gonna talk prototypes, they're gonna have to beat this one (http://www.fast-autos.net/oldsmobile/oldsmobileaerotech.html):
(http://www.fast-autos.net/oldsmobile/aerotech.jpg)
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But thats not a protype for a road car, its more of a science project. This chrysler thing has AC, sound system, airbags, meets all government safety regulations etc...
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There is one thing about it - it's almost as pretty as a European sports car.
2 x :aok for the Yanks!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But thats not a protype for a road car, its more of a science project. This chrysler thing has AC, sound system, airbags, meets all government safety regulations etc...
Yeah? But will it do 278 mph?
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Originally posted by Mini D
hear rumors that they actually got the engine up to 1200 HP, but can't find much on the web about it.
TAG-BMW 1,5l Turbo pushed 1500hp in qualification runs and 1200hp at races..
copy/paste:
It sounds absolutely incredible, but the world`s most powerful Grand Prix engine was based on a production block! That was taken from the 1969 presented type 2002 and reduced from original cubic capacity of 2.0 litres to the 1.500 ccm the Formula One regulations had allowed for turbocharged engines. To reduce inner tentions within the engine blocks BMW only took those ones that had done more than 100.000 kilometres - " they are like well-hung meat," as engineer Paul Rosche said, who had a very close relationship to Nelson Piquet considering him as a perfect test driver. Later a special treatment had been invented to imitate this high kilometre performance to avoid BMW to run out of old engine blocks.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Yeah? But will it do 278 mph?
278mph? Many science projects were much much faster...
http://www.landspeed.com/learn.html
It's a technology demonstrator and nothing more, there were no pretenses of it being a production prototype road car. I know how much you love to argue minid and I dont have the time to do that so I'll leave it at that. :)
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Those are jet's grun. I don't expect you to know the difference... but they are different. Find a combustion engine that had done it then you may have something to talk about. Find one that's done it on a track and you'll even have something to weigh against the Olds.
MiniD
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Plenty of piston engined cars there, some even over 400mph. But like I said, I know how you like to argue. :)
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Once again grun.. find one that's done it on a track. That's what the 278 was done on.. still a record.
MiniD
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I can just turn that around and say, but can it do 400 mph in the desert? No it cant, which is my point. Its not comporable to LSR cars nor is comporable to a possibly production bound sports road car. Ive argued too much, gotta get ready for the day. Later.
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The Aerotech car had stock engine internals, that was what was so special about it. They were trying to show off the Quad 4.
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And Staga, TAG was working with Porsche, not BMW.
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Originally posted by Modas
Yeah, and after it hits 60 mph in that whopping 2.9 seconds, the tranny drops to the pavement and you come to a screeching halt in 2.9 seconds :D
I can say that cuz I'm a not so proud owner of a dodge ram going on its 2nd transmission in 60K miles. :(
I don't care how good/fast the car looks. I will never by dodge/chrylser again
KIA all the way!!!! :D
dude you need to learn how to change gears...if its a automatic then i suggest you keep the "pedal above the metal" its a truck...not a race car
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explan why it's important to go from 0 to 60 in 2.9 seconds.
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Originally posted by john9001
explan why it's important to go from 0 to 60 in 2.9 seconds.
ahhh............cause.;)
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Explain why it's important to have sex with a woman or eat a steak?
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err...because everyone wants to feel G force but not everyone can become a pilot...
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Wow.
There goes my insurance
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(http://www.billzilla.org/thrustssc.jpg)
(http://dept.physics.upenn.edu/courses/gladney/mathphys/java/images/thrustssc.gif)
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anyone know what street car set the land speed record? :D
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Originally posted by vorticon
dude you need to learn how to change gears...if its a automatic then i suggest you keep the "pedal above the metal" its a truck...not a race car
hehehe, its an automatic and I don't beat on it in any sense of the word. I can't afford to put gas in it when those 8 cylinders really kick in :D
I know 8 different people who have rams, ranging from '96 (mine) thru 2000 and all have replaced their tranny around 40 to 50K.
I am absolutely RELIGIOUS when it comes to turning off the overdrive when towing or even when I have more than a couple of hundred pounds in the box. I even put an auxilary tranny cooler in just to be safe.
Bottom line is, IMO, chrysler/dodge trannies just plain suck...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I can just turn that around and say, but can it do 400 mph in the desert? No it cant, which is my point. Its not comporable to LSR cars nor is comporable to a possibly production bound sports road car. Ive argued too much, gotta get ready for the day. Later.
Actually.. it's not the same. The cars in the desert don't have to hold in corners.
It was a real car, with a real engine. It didn't have a radio, but that's not really making it any less of a car now is it grunhurts? "Unable to drive in anything but a straight line"... that does have a tendancy to make it less of a car. That's why there's the distinct seperation in class.
PS... the "cars" it beats also includes NASCAR, F1 and Indy cars. All with a 2liter 4 cylinder engine.
MiniD
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Stock block engine too.
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TAG-BMW 1,5l Turbo pushed 1500hp in qualification runs and 1200hp at races..
It was Brabham BMW but its easy understand since it was a very competetive time for Formula1 and Engine providers teams and drivers were swapping like mad. TAG Heure sponsered alot of different teams.
http://www.amedeogigli.it/iformulai.html
And Staga, TAG was working with Porsche, not BMW.
TAG sponsored Mclaren-Porsche as well as Williams-Ford then later Mclaren-Honda.
(http://www.motorsportcollector.com/101602Images/TAGENGINE/02L.jpeg)
(http://www.motorsportcollector.com/101602Images/TAGENGINE/01L.jpeg)
(http://www.motorsportcollector.com/101602Images/TAGENGINE/05L.jpeg)
(http://www.motorsportcollector.com/101602Images/TAGENGINE/03L.jpeg)
Now thats an engine... check out that sump.
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MiniD you're comparing a prototype without any records to the racing cars which have already spent hundreds of hours in racing tracks ?
Shees you're an id... eh guess we already knew it :)
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IIRC U.S cops were looking at powerfull, rear-wheel drive car for replacing old Victorias etc ?
How about a Jag?
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/jaguar_copcar.jpg)
Finnish cops got this Jaguar S-Type R (Supercharged V-8, 395Hp/541Nm) as a gift from a technical magazine TM when that magazine celebrated their 50 year anniversary. Earlier cars TM gave to police were Volvo 240 (TM-30), Dodge Aspen w/police special (TM-25) and Audi 90 Quattro (TM-35).
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Staga you made my point for me. You'll find that the only F1 engine with a TAG label on it was a Porsche.
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Staga, you should know better, that Jaguar is just a rebodied American-market Ford.
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Yeah I know it's a ford; That's why I'm not jealous to those cops but I actually feel sorry for them :aok
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Originally posted by Staga
MiniD you're comparing a prototype without any records to the racing cars which have already spent hundreds of hours in racing tracks ?
Shees you're an id... eh guess we already knew it :)
Ummmm... no I'm comparing a prototype that actually set records. It was a driver, racer, whatever. 278mph wasn't a guestimate, it was proven at a track. This car's been around for a while.
MiniD
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Funked, if you like that era you should check out this book "1000 Horsepower Grand Prix Cars". Lotsa pretty pictures of all the engine manufactures and F1 cars sparking down the track. All in color.
:aok
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Originally posted by Staga
MiniD you're comparing a prototype without any records to the racing cars which have already spent hundreds of hours in racing tracks ?
He didn't do that. The Aerotech did something that none of those cars ever did - run average lap speeds of almost 260 mph on a closed race circuit. It hit 278 mph on the straights. No F1 car ever got close to that.
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So what has it actually done other that it has speeded pretty fast once ?
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You mean other than set the road speed record?
MiniD
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
He didn't do that. The Aerotech did something that none of those cars ever did - run average lap speeds of almost 260 mph on a closed race circuit. It hit 278 mph on the straights. No F1 car ever got close to that.
Its just weight and downforce. Indy cars do around 220 during qualifying at Indy. Indy cars have to pass tech and regulations of their racing leage. An open prototype does not have any of that to limit them. Also full bodied prototype cars can generate alot more downforce than formula cars.
It is impressive though.
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Originally posted by Staga
So what has it actually done other that it has speeded pretty fast once ?
Nothing. It was just a technology demonstrator, to show off GM's new engine, the Quad 4. GM's previous wheezy, unreliable, pushrod 4 bangers had given the 4-cyl a bad name in the US, and they wanted to show that the new engine had some balls. Those records were done with a stock block engine. You could go down the Olds dealer and buy a car with the same block and general configuration. The Aerotech was much cheaper than a GTP/Group C program, and it still made the point.
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Originally posted by john9001
explan why it's important to go from 0 to 60 in 2.9 seconds.
It makes your noodle bigger.
I've done it way too many times.
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Well I could buy a '75 BMW320 and by doing so have a same block which was used in F1 cars in eighties but I really can't see why the heck should I do it???
btw F1 car can stay on the track with +3G side forces but that's also the reason for its limited top speed; with just lifting the foot from accelerator the F1 decelerates faster than with brakes at slower speeds (2g IIRC).
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Staga, get it through your head, it was a new engine that you could buy on new cars which the company would profit from, not on a 15 year old used car. That's why they were trying to hype it.
Your second sentence has about as much to do with this topic as "My cat's breath smells like cat food."
I wager you are mad at NanoD*** for reasons we can't discuss, or you are drunk, or both.
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Who pee'd in your cheerios ?
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Hahah I struck a nerve. Who filled your Cheerios with vodka?
I didn't know they had Cheerios in Finland.
AMREEKA IS TEH CONTROL J00!!! ALL YOUR CEREAL ARE BELONG TO US!!!
I'm just busting your balls dude, have a good evening errr morning. :)
I mean if you can't treat your friends like ****, who CAN you treat like ****? :D
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Well we don't have cheerios in here but that quotation is well known around the world.
Anyway real men use beer with their cheerios; not vodka.
Oh well; gotta hit the sack but before that I gotta look This one (http://www.liquidgeneration.com/poptoons/saddam_outkast.asp) again :).
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PS email me: creamo6969@hotmail.com
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
Also full bodied prototype cars can generate alot more downforce than formula cars.
If I understand correctly what you are saying... you are wrong.
The F1 cars have the higher downforce needed to corner in those curvy circuits.
The usual road cars, even the apex ones need to compromize the downforce with the CX, for many reasons.
I've read somewhere that a F1 car (and I guess an indy car too), can, with the normal settings used in a race, and at above 200Km/h, mantain the grip on a roof of a gallery.... inverted
Amaizing, an possible.
The top speed record, in race, by a F1 is 362 Km/h (IIRC), (225mph, Montoya??).
Anyway comparing the F1s with a road car is a useless exercize, those things are built for different purposes, with different rules.
A case of oranges and apples, clearly.
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If he is talking about Racing Prototypes, he could be right.
I believe the Grp C and IMSA GTP cars produced more downforce then F1 cars.
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Originally posted by Monk
If he is talking about Racing Prototypes, he could be right.
I believe the Grp C and IMSA GTP cars produced more downforce then F1 cars.
Well, will be surprising, for me.
I wonder if there are numbers somewhere in the web.
Asking mr. google. :)
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Found some link:
http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Sports/advanced/racecar-01.html
http://engrwp.usc.edu/illumin/article.php?articleID=7&page=2
http://www.techtv.com/thetechof/story/0,24330,3378206,00.html
Oh oh!!!
Found something interesting!! Numbers!!!
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/data.htm
Others links
http://www.scitech.org.au/speed/brainfuel.html
http://www.formula1.com/insight/technicalinfo/11/468.html
http://media.gm.com/news/releases/020418_irl.html
Enough.
The amaizing thing is the Indy car numbers:
5084 lbs. @ 200 mph, with 1924 lbs. of drag
A lot of drag, indeed :)
Lister Storm 2003
4622 lbs. @ 200 mph, with 960 lbs. drag
Looking at theese numbres seem that the Lister is more efficient than the Indycar, it's a pity I have'nt found numbers for the F1s.
(more efficient than indycars: rules different).
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Very nice.
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Monk, I guess you are right about the downforce.
F1 cars cannot use (by rules) tunnel effect anymore, and it's a very important effect to maximize downforce and minimize drag.
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I believe they stopped because of safety issues, trying to slow the cars down.
I wonder what numbers the Turbo cars of the 80's had......hmmm.
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Originally posted by Monk
I believe they stopped because of safety issues, trying to slow the cars down.
I wonder what numbers the Turbo cars of the 80's had......hmmm.
Yep, Villeneuve sr. death, and others :(
Car lost tunnel effect... and take off.
About the 80's cars, those records set have begun to "fall" to modern cars only in the last couple years, IIRC.
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IIRC at 200kmh F1 has enough downforce to drive thru the Cote De'Azur tunnel at Monaco by hanging at the ceiling.
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Originally posted by Staga
IIRC at 200kmh F1 has enough downforce to drive thru the Cote De'Azur tunnel at Monaco by hanging at the ceiling.
Has anyone actually tried?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Has anyone actually tried?
I guess is the shape of the side, and those holes that cause a little difficulty ;)
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Indycars have raced regularly at Datoyna, I believe they were getting near 240, but they were having repeated accidents even in warmups with no other cars on the track. They proceded to require more drag. If you look at the cross-section of an Indy or F1 car, you'll notice the huge square blocks at either end of them. The tires on those cars will never allow the smooth air flow to hit 275 on a straight and still hold in a corner.
The olds demonstrated more than the Quad4 engine... it also demonstrated airfoil design on an automobile. Anyone can make 800 horsepower, keeping it on the track is an entirely different issue.
BTW... there was a test done some time ago when they time trialed the Porsche Group B against a NASCAR racer at Daytona. Was a very good read, and they were pretty evenly matched.
MiniD