Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sixpence on January 07, 2004, 11:59:32 PM
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I have always thought he should be in the hall of fame. It seems a harsh punishment due to the fact that he will never see his place in the hall.
But what he did(betting on baseball as a manager of a team) cannot be overlooked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black+Sox+scandal
I'm not sure, but I believe non of these players were allowed back into baseball. The same should be applied to Pete. I do think after his death he should be allowed into the hall. The career he had should be recognized at some point.
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It says right in the dug-out: You shall now bet on baseball.
He broke the rules, he's out. Plus, the Hall of Fame should be something you earn, not an entitlement. He screwed up. There are things in life that have consequences, this is one of them.
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MLB lets all sorts of players violate the rules and then return. I've long since lost count of the number of players that have violated the league's substance abuse policy for both recreational and performance enhancing drugs.
To ban Rose is a double standard.
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True, if it was a. He bet, b. he got caught and said 'whoops, ya got me' then maybe.
The reason I continue to disagree is that that isn't what happened. When confronted with the bank records, he started lying left and right. He claimed that he didn't know any of the organized crime people, then they found letters and personal checks to them. When they showed him checks made to fictitious names or CASH, he tried spinning stories about real estate deals.
Based on analysis of his financial records, the FBI determined that he was betting an average of $15,000 a day. This is serious cash, not a little hobby.
The reason it's so bad for an athlete to bet on his own game (something the evidence showed) is that it undermines the integrity of the game. It's literally a crime against the sport directly, since it shakes the fans trust in the game itself.
The players that use alcohol or drugs are breaking the laws of society, not the game.
Finally, he agreed to and signed a document putting him on the permanently ineligible list. Here's the text of that, thank you google:
Peter Edward Rose is hereby declared permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.
Why is this significant? The Hall of Fame has a clause that specifically says that people on the permanent ineligibility list cannot be added. It might have been added just to target Rose (it was added the next year), but the motives don't change the fact that it's a rule that's on the books. To get him into the HoF, you first need to strike that rule.
All that aside, I can't care less about MLB anymore. It's a joke, has been since the most recent strike. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, MLB, shame on me. Not gonna happen. The only baseball I'll watch anymore is minor league stuff. Go Emeralds!
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His admission to the Hall of Fame should be determined by his performance on the field, not for his moral standards. He's the All- Time MLB Hits leader, he belongs in the Hall. If he bet on baseball and violated the rules then forbid him from managing, but you can't erase his achievements on the field.
BTW, Pete Rose is disengenious. He timed the release of his book to diminish from this year's Hall of Fame inductions and he's lying about the extent of his gambling. He may be a sleseball, but he's a sleseball with 4k+ lifetime hits.
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as long as he didn't bet AGAINST his own team I just can't bring myself to care.
hell, if I was running a team I would love all my players, coaches, whoever to bet on the game, as long as they where betting for us to win, it could only make them more motivated.
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In some sports (not puritanical USA) it's customary to bet on one's own team.
The biggest shame in all of this is that he was a pretty damn good manager, and the only player-manager in recent history.
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Do the crime, take the punishment. Sorry Charlie Hustle...ya blew it.
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Sorry, but I don't think he should be admitted into the Hall of Fame.
Betting on one's own team with big $ might force the manager to make decisions not good for the long term career of some of the pitching staff. That manager might be making a regular season game into his own game seven of the World Series. Not a good thing for that team. Not a good thing for MLB.
Pete Rose's credibility is very low IMHO. He makes Bill Clinton look like a boy scout.
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Sorry, but I don't think he should be admitted into the Hall of Fame.
Betting on one's own team with big $ might force the manager to make decisions not good for the long term career of some of the pitching staff. That manager might be making a regular season game into his own game seven of the World Series. Not a good thing for that team. Not a good thing for MLB.
I hadn't concidered that angle, good point.
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Betting on Baseball affects the integrity of the GAME, each individual game. That has been a rule from the start.
On the other hand: You let Shoeless Joe in then I would say let Pete in, but not until Joe is in.
Was he a good player, yeah one of the top 100, definitely not one of the top 75 :)
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From what I've read of Shoeless Joe, his stats actually were quite good in the World Series leading me to believe that he wasn't a "participant" in the payoff IIRC.
If that in fact is correct, he definitely belongs in the HoF.
Pete Rose definitely doesn't.
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I dont know, If you look at all Pete Rose did in his career, don't you think that he deserves the Hall? It will be a shame that he will never make it to the Hall, but also I believe he shouldn't be let in because of what he did. As it was said before, he knew the rules, he broke them, and now he is paying the consequences of it.
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Hehe, since I live on the West Side of Cincinnati, only a stone's throw away from Pete's High School, I'm prolly a little biased, but, I say let him be eligible for the HoF, but never let him be employed in MLB again :).
Cya Up!
Dawg
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If you want him in the HoF (a mistake, imo) you need to strike the rule that SPECIFICALLY states that nobody on the ineligible list can be in the HoF.
Deal with that first.