Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: FUNKED1 on January 08, 2004, 03:04:25 AM

Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: FUNKED1 on January 08, 2004, 03:04:25 AM
I was looking through my Radmin logs and I saw some attempted logins from a strange IP.  I use the built in IP filter so it was of no consquence, but I thought "YOU BASTARD" and decided to send him a login attempt just for kicks.  To my shock I got in on the first try without a password, full control.  Some poor schmuck's desktop full of his personal financial data etc.  Apparently a trojan or something had planted r_server.exe on his computer without leaving any other trace of an Radmin install.  I left him a note on his desktop explaining this to him, and how to stop it.  I considered opening his Outlook to get his email but I didn't want to intrude any further.  Did I do the right thing?
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: Tumor on January 08, 2004, 03:25:31 AM
I'd have gone ahead and got his email and let him know the problem from that direction too.  Hey, you were already in right? No telling what he'll think if/when he finds the desktop note.

Tumor
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: FUNKED1 on January 08, 2004, 05:54:28 AM
Well I went back to get his email and I couldn't login.  Hopefully he got the note and took action.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: Skuzzy on January 08, 2004, 06:58:19 AM
Cable connections...the worst.  This is why most people should not have a cable connection as they have no clue how exposed thier computer is to their neighbor.

It can happen on a DSL connection, but only if the ISP has no clue how to setup a router.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: Tumor on January 08, 2004, 10:34:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Cable connections...the worst.  This is why most people should not have a cable connection as they have no clue how exposed thier computer is to their neighbor.



This is why I keep nothing-at all-ever on my computer I wouldn't want anyone else to see or know.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: slimm50 on January 08, 2004, 11:54:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Cable connections...the worst.  This is why most people should not have a cable connection as they have no clue how exposed thier computer is to their neighbor.

It can happen on a DSL connection, but only if the ISP has no clue how to setup a router.

You mean cable, as in RoadRunner? I was thinking of going to that, since I'll never be able to get DSL where I live.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: DAVENRINO on January 08, 2004, 12:21:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by slimm50
You mean cable, as in RoadRunner? I was thinking of going to that, since I'll never be able to get DSL where I live.



I think Skuzzy said "most" people cause they aren't smart nuff to take precautions.  If you are on cable, a good hardware firewall is a must to keep others out and a software  firewall for backup and to catch things trying to leave your puter.

DJ229 - AIR MAFIA
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: mars01 on January 08, 2004, 12:27:55 PM
What are the problems with just a software firewall.  What benifits does the hardware firewall add?
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: Skuzzy on January 08, 2004, 12:47:51 PM
What Davenrino said.

Hardware firewalls have the benefit of running external to your computer, which means your CPU is free to do other things more important, like play AH. :D

Of course, when I think 'hardware firewall', I am not thinking about those cheap consumer routers.  But, my solution is not for everyone.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: mars01 on January 08, 2004, 01:29:56 PM
I'm more concerned about the actual protection benefit.  So other than clock cycles a software firewall is as good as a hardware firewall (Both having same feature set)?
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: FUNKED1 on January 08, 2004, 02:15:37 PM
Skuzzy, Radmin uses port 4899 by default.  I don't think it matters whether you are on cable or DSL.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: Skuzzy on January 08, 2004, 02:20:15 PM
Cable is easier as local nodes are all on the same subnet.  There is no concept of 'local nodes' in a DSL network.

Broadcasts of NetBIOS make it trivial to track down local cable node users.  Won't work on DSL.

I was just noting that the inherent risks are significantly higher in a cable connection versus a DSL connection as most users have no clue how to stop NetBIOS propagation within a subnet.

Of course, this all assumes the ISP actually knows how to setup a router for its DSL clients.  Whereas the local nodes of a cable network are completely out of the control of the ISP and very visible to each other.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: LePaul on January 08, 2004, 02:27:47 PM
When my ISP was first rolling out DSL years ago, I innocently checked the Network Neighborhood and noted the ISP name there.  Double clicked.  Saw a share named billing.  Hmm.  ...saw a shared HP4 laserjet and printed YOUR NETWORK ISNT SECURE

Couldn't get there the following night  :p
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: Skuzzy on January 08, 2004, 02:40:21 PM
And therein is why I usually add that disclaimer.  What I take for granted, that should be done, is not neccessarily what is actually done.
It amazes me how many ISP's still have very poor security for their clients and local networks.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: Reschke on January 08, 2004, 11:43:55 PM
At the computer shop I used to work in we were on a cable node with several other business and residential customers. During the day when I had nothing to do I would browse the network neighborhood and see who was on and try to get in just to check them out. 99% of them were customers and knew me personally (even still know me today 4-5 years later) and that we were helping them out. One guy we would print to all day long telling him his office network wasn't secure. After about 2 weeks of that the guy finally walked over and asked us to stop since it was the local OSHA office and we were using all their paper in the printer. From then on we left .doc's on all the desktops in the office and about two more weeks went by and we couldn't get into the network anymore. I guess they finally got the message.

Since I have moved over to a cable modem on the 31st of December I have had no less than 3 port scans with attempts to run files called "Backdoor/SubSeven Trojan horse", "Block Silencer Trojan horse" or some other crap program each day. The crazy thing is then I get to see where the program is directly attacking from. Half of them have been from the US but then the other half has come from either China or Korea.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: Estes on January 09, 2004, 12:10:13 AM
One of my friends has his laptop over, he has a wireless network card for his house, then he has a regular ethernet which is what i use in the house.

Anyway, we booted it up, and noticed that the wireless lan picked up a signal, it was really low signal but it connected, was like 1.5 mbps I think.

Some poor guy/gal in the neighborhood didn't set it up right and I was able to get a connect of them. :) and of course, he didn't have his router configured so you could just type in the default, admin password and get in.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: FUNKED1 on January 09, 2004, 01:28:06 AM
Estes, I see that every time I set up WiFi for a friend.  There's always some twit in the neighborhood with everything wide open.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: Estes on January 09, 2004, 08:02:03 AM
Man Funked, you ruin my day. I thought I  was special. :p
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: CMC Airboss on January 09, 2004, 01:52:18 PM
Great thread.  I was actually thinking of getting a cable connection until seeing this discussion.  Now, I will only consider such a connection with a hardware firewall.

My question:  What are the best sources for configuring such a firewall?

Thanks,

MiG
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: Soulyss on January 09, 2004, 03:00:40 PM
My friends and I used to cruise the on campus housing network when we were in school.  Occasionally we'd find a resident who's computer was wide open or had their printer on the network what not.  Well my friend also worked for the housing dept.  So one day he decided to drive the point home that people should protect their computers on a network.  He found a open system got the guys name off his email and then went to work and pulled the guys record then one night late at night he had the poor guys printer just spit out a little note saying "Hello Mr. so-and-so... SS# 123-45-6789... who lives in room blah-blah-blah of this building... you really shouldn't leave your computer open on the network who knows what people can find out about you."

The printer and computer soon disappeared.  :)
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: qts on January 09, 2004, 04:07:32 PM
ZoneAlarm is one of the best firewalls out there for protecting a single PC.  You can gain a lot of protection simply by using NAT. For protecting a network, you can dig out an old PC and install Smoothwall. Agnitum Outpost is also good.

I'm a firm believer in layered defence.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: FUNKED1 on January 09, 2004, 05:18:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Estes
Man Funked, you ruin my day. I thought I  was special. :p


Well it's not always as bad as the case you describe, but there's always something open.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: FUNKED1 on January 09, 2004, 05:19:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by CMC Airboss
Great thread.  I was actually thinking of getting a cable connection until seeing this discussion.  Now, I will only consider such a connection with a hardware firewall.

My question:  What are the best sources for configuring such a firewall?

Thanks,

MiG


FWIW the problem we are discussing (Radmin being wide open) would be just as bad on DSL as with cable.
Title: Spooky Experience
Post by: jigsaw on January 09, 2004, 10:38:33 PM
So many options for hardware type firewalls...
Pick up an old cisco 25xx or 26xx router off ebay for pocket change, configure NAT and/or access lists. Several people have mentioned having a PC front end for the network. Late versions of Redhat are great for setting up something like that. Literally walks you through configuring DCHP and IPChains.