Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GtoRA2 on January 08, 2004, 10:37:32 AM
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I have been giving this allot of thought.
He done nothing to help gun owners of this nation. That is an important issue to me. He even said he would sign the assault weapon ban if it came across his desk.
His stance on illegal just sucks. The idea of giving amnesty to a bunch of people who came here illegally is wrong. I think the immigration system needs to be revised, so the companies that use illegals can bring as many in as they need on work visas with a background check. Then we can close the border for real security. The way bush is doing it is a joke.
He locked up a US citizen for months with no trial or charges. That’s scary and wrong.
I am torn on the war in IRAQ, I think it would have been better if we had not gone. I do not think they really where a big threat. Now that we are there I dread us pulling out before the job is done right.
There is more but I am a bit short of time.
The worst part of it all is I have no one else to vote for. It looks like the Dems are going to put up Dean, and I do not respect him, he can barely act like an adult, and I do not think he is the best the dems can do. But we are going to be stuck with him I bet. I will not vote for him.
Damnit I do not want to vote for Bush either.
Well I guess it’s flame on time….
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I also will not vote for Bush again, some different reasons than you.
I look at all the changes the country has gone through with security and have realized the terrorists have won. Our way of life is changing, I'm not saying we are a police state but I feel a definate move in that direction.
I don't see much potential with any of the candidates at this point and I doubt that will change.
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Narsus
What do see has changed with the homeland security stuff? I think it is all a farce. With a border as open as our southern one we are not safe...
Still I would love to hear more of your reasons.
I am really down, that we have no good choice in the coming election, I am not sure what I will do if Dean gets the nomination. He sucks just as bad as Bush if not worse.
This is going to sound like blasphemy... But I am starting to Miss Clinton, other then him being an immoral scum bag, and fairly anti gun, he was not THAT bad.
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Welcome Brothers! I have been singing this tune since 1994. Just do a little research into his former business dealings and you will get a better perspective on who GWB really is and what his motives really are.
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Well I think any law or creation of an agency that gives the government more power we should all be very wary of. The "government" on the whole isn't interested in us IMO, but in consolidating it's own power.
How soon till the department of homeland security starts putting people away for something not to do with homeland security.
Granted currently none of the new laws have affected me personally, but how long till one does? The prisoners in Cuba, what rights do they have, if they are going to be detained indefinately where is the "justice" in that. They haven't been given a trial by the U.S. or the international community.
The war in Iraq was pretty much a waste of time and soldiers, there are far worse things in this world than Saddam Hussein.
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Originally posted by narsus
I look at all the changes the country has gone through with security and have realized the terrorists have won. Our way of life is changing, I'm not saying we are a police state but I feel a definate move in that direction.
Wow, excellent point... I had not put it in thoughts like that for myself... Perhaps they have not yet 'won', but our country has changed...
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The worst part of it all is I have no one else to vote for. It looks like the Dems are going to put up Dean, and I do not respect him, he can barely act like an adult, and I do not think he is the best the dems can do. But we are going to be stuck with him I bet. I will not vote for him.
It's really a drag, isn't it. It comes down to which respective party will screw you over less as it works towards its own, bought and paid for agenda. A [serious] campaign finance reform candidate like John McCain would get my vote regardless of the rest of his/her political platform. [Not that the candidate would have much hope of success, even if elected...Arrgh]
Charon
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
The worst part of it all is I have no one else to vote for. It looks like the Dems are going to put up Dean, and I do not respect him, he can barely act like an adult, and I do not think he is the best the dems can do. But we are going to be stuck with him I bet. I will not vote for him.
Damnit I do not want to vote for Bush either.
move to canada...or try get a multi party system put in place
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Put down that Al Franken book, he has you wrapped around his little finger.... :lol
Oh yea and whatever you do, don't vote - not for any of them from any party.
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Even if you hold your nose at the alternative, my logic tells me that it's better to give a new, untested guy a chance than it is to give my support to a guy I know I won't like based on his previous job performance.
The new candidate is a gamble, the current President is a sure loser. For me, it's not hard to figure out which one to go for.
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Originally posted by vorticon
move to canada...or try get a multi party system put in place
No thnx and keep out!..We have enough illegals over here.
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Grun
The franken book did not mention any of the things I did but the war on Iraq. I did not mention any of it since I have not had the time to look into many of the disturbing things he had to say about Bush. Bush is a train wreck even from a conservitive point of view if you are not blind.
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How is Bush responsible for the change our country has undergone post 9/11?
I think our way of life would have changed no matter who was in the Oval Office - I dont think its at all related to the President.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
No thnx and keep out!..We have enough illegals over here.
if i wanted to emigrate to USA i would go about it properly...
luckily for you i dont
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I would never abandon my country. As much as I think it has issues, I just love it to much to go to a place like Canada..
I do not know how to say "aye" in every sentence either.
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I'm just teasing you about your transformation into an angry liberal, soon you will be good buddies with dowding, weazel, frogman and the rest. I anxiously await your very first pro-UN usa bashing post.. :D
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Dowding is the only one you mention I can stand lol!
I will never be a lib, they fear guns to much, and I like my SUV, and will own a gas guzzling Muscle car again...
I hate the UN, it will never be anything but a Joke.
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LOL :)
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
I will never be a lib, they fear guns to much, and I like my SUV, and will own a gas guzzling Muscle car again...
A "lib" as in a liberal democrat, or as in a libertarian? You sound like you'd do well looking into the latter alternative.
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i can't believe all you neo-liberals are not supporting Ralph (save the world) Nadar............
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Tarmac
If the Libertarian party was not a joke I would be one... We need a real third party...
Lib for me means Liberal... lol
That was said with humor, since I have many libs friends that are gun, SUV and Muscle car friendly.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Tarmac
If the Libertarian party was not a joke I would be one... We need a real third party...
If you're referring to its small impact on politics, well, everyone has to start somewhere.
Libertarian is the closest thing we have to a 3rd party. Nader can go **** himself.
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Yesterday's illegal immigrant amnesty program hits home how out of touch Bush is. Every day more and more info comes to light to prove that invading Iraq wasn't immediately necessary to secure US peace. He spends like a drunken sailor and has yet to veto a single spending bill that has come across his desk.
And yet, (unless a sex scandal or something appears) it looks like the Democratic nominee will be Dean, whom I like least of the top 5 Dem contenders.
I agree with Charon. It looks like another election of "who do I disagree with the least".
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ok how about a deal.....you guys can have Tony Blair, but you have to send us Wesley Clark in exchange....only thing if Tony turns out to be a lying pos you have to keep him for a full term anyway!
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_Schadenfreude_
Hmm I think thats a bad deal...
P.S. Steel Panthers MBT runs fine on both my Xp systems, though the engine is not as good as World at war.
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I support the CIC and I will not waffle with the daily whims of politics as usual. Im in it for the long haul, 8 years as allowed under the constitution, nothing less.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
I am starting to not think Bush is the right man for the Job.
Anyone who desires political office is probably not the right man for the job.
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Originally posted by Yeager
I support the CIC and I will not waffle with the daily whims of politics as usual. Im in it for the long haul, 8 years as allowed under the constitution, nothing less.
ditto
He ain't perfect but tell me who is or who is better than what we have now or who u'd like to have seen handle our country with what has happened since '00.
yeah, the grass is always greener on the other side .. think some of you need to stop smoking it though ...
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He ain't perfect but tell me who is or who is better than what we have now or who u'd like to have seen handle our country with what has happened since '00.
Impossible to tell, without someone going through the exact same thing, so the argument is pretty much moot.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
_Schadenfreude_
Hmm I think thats a bad deal...
P.S. Steel Panthers MBT runs fine on both my Xp systems, though the engine is not as good as World at war.
sigh..I know but it was worth a try.....on SP MBT try vs another human player v.good, choose say the 1970's and light armour para force - nothing like kicking mbt butt with Carl Gustav's and Wombats!! Scorpion is pure evil too - hesh kills ANYTHING!
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Originally posted by john9001
i can't believe all you neo-liberals are not supporting Ralph (save the world) Nadar............
You mean Ralph (kill the Corvair) Nader? Yeah, hes a winner.
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I dont think your vote will count anyway:
Diebold anyone..
paper trail ?
Hanging chad most likely..
My confidence in the companies making the voting machines has wanned.. From uncertified patches on machines to just blatant holes on how the machines can be exploited. Dont take my word for it do some research..
I was in broward country first hand and kicker is that im a republican.. (american party first though) (Think im going change to (I) soon)
And remember if you vote kerry your really voting for bush... or his string pullers.. Yale S&B
My 2 cents
prediction : Bush will win by a landslide... and I hope im wrong I really do..
DoctorYo
Soon our elections will be like the middleast: so and so wins by total of 100%
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DRyo
If they put up Dean he will not need to cheat to win.
Funked
Anyone who desires political office is probably not the right man for the job.
Your right on that but some are worse then others.
Eagler.
Is there anything this president could do to make you take of the blinders? He improsoned a US citizen with no trial or charges. That should SCARE the **** out of anyone right or left.
Same question for you Yeager.
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Originally posted by Yeager
I support the CIC and I will not waffle with the daily whims of politics as usual. Im in it for the long haul, 8 years as allowed under the constitution, nothing less.
What a great attitude! Now you only have to think once every 8 years instead of every 4!
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gto
i don't think bush put anyone in prison - i think it was further down the food chain. mistakes happen- anytime,anyplace, I'm not getting my underwear in a knot about it..
I j think he is the right man for the job considering ANY of the alternatives our political system has sprewed out over the past 10 years. This country was lucky to have him and his admin at the helm since '00. IMO
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Eagler
I thought much like you did.
I agree there is not much else out there.
But I think we will be paying the price for Bush being the right man for a long time, and I am really not sure the if the price is fair.
He is really going over board on spending.... that in itself is going to hurt us for a very long time.
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dean seems to be the only one saying yea we are gonna have to raise taxes sorry the other guys are lying.
and main priority is health care.
if he supports the total dismantaling of the patriot act i would vote for him hell id tote a rifle for him.
i figgure we will have to befor we get rid of this regime. bush is sad sick **** i have said it from the beginning.
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Bush is a good commander and cheif.
But his economic advisors must be drunk.
And this deal with the meskins LOL was he stoned when he dreamed that nightmare up?
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I'm with Charon. McCain is the best Democrat available.
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if he didn't do exactly what he has done, you think the economy would be where it is at today after the 90's bubble burst & 9/11? sitting at almost 10600. I don't. The spending was justified as were the tax cuts.
(http://chart.yahoo.com/c/1y/_/_dji.gif)
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Originally posted by vorticon
if i wanted to emigrate to USA i would go about it properly...
luckily for you i dont
Luckily for you you're already there. SirLoin is from Canada. :aok
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Wow so much has been covered allready here's my 3 cents:
Economy
-Bush has bailed out everyone from farmers to airlines in order to keep the business going I dont particularly agree with that in a free society but it is in the long term good for the economy....BTW its on the up as of late
-the tax cuts are working...a robust economy can not be obtained by increasing taxes. The deficit will be paid down with increase tax revenues once the economy is fully repaired
-were he fails in this matter is he has spent more money on socail programs than any other repub i know
National Security
-I still support the overal decision to invade Iraq...the world is a better place with out him. If we continue to show strength other evil dictators will crumble as well......See lybia
-I think the patriot act is totally needed but needs to be closely watched to make sure those powers are not abused
-Dept of Homland security is just another huge govt waist of money. A collection of govt workers doing the same bad job as befor only with a new name.
Enron
-I honestly think there were as many democrats involved with this scandle as there were rebuplicans....the CEOs will do jailtime so justice is served
immegration issue
-totally against this latest debacle UNLESS. was thinking today this may just be good polotics.....think about it, If this bill goes to congress and gets filbustered around than bush has done two things 1. shown that the democrats could care nothing about minoritys 2. possibly gain the latino vote
I'm not a huge fan of Bush but I will vote for him. The only other guy I'm even closly likeing for the job is Joe Liberman. I think he is a good man even if he is a libral but he will never win the primary. Dean on the other hand is a cry baby who hasnt said one inteligent thing i've heard yet.
These are just my opions and you can say anything you want about them but you probably wont change my mind
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Is there anything this president could do to make you take of the blinders? He improsoned a US citizen with no trial or charges. That should SCARE the **** out of anyone right or left.
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Bush could get caught doing something illegal. Thing is, I do not trust ultra-liberals to tell me the truth. I do not trust the left leaning media to tell me the truth (Yes, in spite of FoxNews, the vast majority of mass media in the western civilized world still leans clearly left, and in many cases far left, IMO). I try to get as much information from as many different sources as possible (including MSNBC, CNN, ABC CBS and yes, even the BBC) weigh all the information for believability and make as informed a decision as I can.
That being said: Osama knows about the constitution and I can easily see his organization attempting to recruit US citizens and have operatives gain citizenship for the sole purpose of using constitutional protections to aid them in their designs of harming this nation. Hell, I think its a no brainer. The man you refer to has been cleared of any wrong doing and I will not second guess the government in time of war on how it deals with such issues. It appears to have concluded successfully in that mans case. He can either accept it or revoke his citizenship and leave the country.
Talk about blinders on? that is so cliche. Everyone on this board has blinders on to one extent or another. Everyone I talk to about politics and national-international matters has some sort of blinders on. You just have to do as good as you can and hope your right. Be damned sure about it if you can. I feel like my informed opinions are correct or I wouldnt hold them.
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I cannot in good conscience vote Dean. I honestly do not believe he would do anything but try to be the anti-Bush, and that is just as bad or worse. His public statements of late illustrate this clearly.
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Hey I'm illegal, and trust me it's not by choice.:D
I got all my second bachelor in USA with all my pilot licences "made in USA". Alas, to obtain a work visa you need to justify that the job requires a bachelor. Pilot is not recognized as a "high skilled job" and does not require a bachelor, thus no way for me to get my papers. (Even if airlines require a bachelor for their pilots).
I'm working for a construction company, I cannot get my papers either because it is not my "education", I didn't go to school for it and justify "special skills".
So I'm stuck, I had to use the backdoor and get marrired to a girl that is making my life a nightmare and I will have to divorce anyway probably loosing my possessions and still have no paper.
Oh ... and I'm paying my taxes, and my car insurance and all the stuff that a citizen have to do.
I tried everything, for his election Bush said "less green cards/work permit for foreigners". Now he's doing a 180 degree turn (Maybe to win states like California/Florida). Whatever, for me it will be an opportunity to be leagal, and afterall for INS to know where I am, what I'm doing.
About homeland security, when the thing will calm down I can tell you some stuning stories that really make you wonder. I see a lot of tight measures taken, and I see them in action everyday, but in the other hand I see wide open cracks that I don't even have to look for.
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Watching a few of the Demo debates, the guy who really impresses me is Al Sharpton.
I agree with only 10% of his positions, but when he says something, you know he's being honest in what he's saying. He says what he believes, not what he thinks you want to hear.
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That being said: Osama knows about the constitution and I can easily see his organization attempting to recruit US citizens and have operatives gain citizenship for the sole purpose of using constitutional protections to aid them in their designs of harming this nation. Hell, I think its a no brainer. The man you refer to has been cleared of any wrong doing and I will not second guess the government in time of war on how it deals with such issues. It appears to have concluded successfully in that mans case. He can either accept it or revoke his citizenship and leave the country.
Yeager, you do realize that it was attitudes like yours that allowed Adolf Hitler to outlaw civil rights in Germany shortly after being appointed Chancellor, right?
I'm not calling you a Nazi, that's not the point.
The point is, it was precisley that attitude, the attitude of "Well, gee, we're in a bad way and the leader(der Fuhrer) has a plan to lead us out of this mess, so let's just go along with him and see what happens."
If you are a citizen of a democracy, it is your right...nay, your duty, to question and speak up when civil rights are being denied to citizens.
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Originally posted by banana
If you are a citizen of a democracy, it is your right...nay, your duty, to question and speak up when civil rights are being denied to citizens.
Could you tell me what specific civil rights you are currently being denied and how that is affecting your life?
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Rip
It has nothing to do with how it is affecting me, but how it is affecting citizens of the U.S. this blind faith in the governement is dangerous.
Our governement tested nerve agents on it's own soldiers, yes they voluteered but did they "really" know what they were getting into.
Our government set up detention camps for Japanese Americans during WWII.
Our government is holding prisoners in Cuba with no trial whether in the US or internationally.
It is our duty to speak up for others no just be selfish and speak for ourselves. I have to agree with banana here if they started karting off "all" muslims citizens to be deported or put in detention camps to protect other american citizens would you speak up then?
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
[B
I do not know how to say "aye" in every sentence either. [/B]
Sailors say "aye", "eh'"
:p
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Originally posted by narsus
Rip
It has nothing to do with how it is affecting me, but how it is affecting citizens of the U.S. this blind faith in the governement is dangerous.
Its not "blind" and I have "Faith". This is just your opinion. Please, tell me how its affecting you today, or what kind of scenario do you personally see yourself in, in the future. Do you really think this Gov't is going to start camps for Muslims? :rofl
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It was an example Rip, as I said the point is not to be selfish and just think about yourself.
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Gunslinger: -Bush has bailed out everyone from farmers to airlines in order to keep the business going I dont particularly agree with that in a free society but it is in the long term good for the economy....BTW its on the up as of late
By forcing the resources of the society to be invested into unprofitable ventures instead of being invested in more productive ones, the economy is harmed in short and long term.
Bailing out and keeping alive the horse-carriage trade in 1900 would not have benefitted us.
Supporting orange-growing in Michihgan instead of making carse there and exchanging for orenges from Chilie would also have made us work more for less.
The point of economy is to produce more with the lest effort, not the other way around. Airlines had overcapacity and were sick before 9/11 - they invested too much resources already and employed labor and capital unproductively because they made bad desisions. Sinking in more resources to back them up would just prevent their more efficient use.
The level of development in US is so high, that it's a waste to use labor and capital in small farms if we can produce more value elsewhere and import the grain/cotton from the countries that di not have ability to produce more sophisticated goods.
The issue of self-sufficiency in case of war or trade breakdown would be cheaper addressed by creating a 10-year store of imported commodities than keeping the sick industries alive.
miko
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The issue of self-sufficiency in case of war or trade breakdown would be cheaper addressed by creating a 10-year store of imported commodities than keeping the sick industries alive.
Cheaper, maybe. But not smarter. I agree with you on sick industries, Miko. But some important industries, like farming, need to be "cured", not "euthanized."
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If you care about guns and Hot Rods and illegal immigration... trading Bush for anyone else out there who has a chance is insane.
All of the bad things that have to do with losing our gun rights and car rights and illegals all happened because of the democrats. give em control and watch how fast your freedom evaporates... you won't even get a say. you won't even have time to say... "can they do that?" You want diane finestein having more control over what you shoot and drive and who is allowed into your country? That is what it is all about.
If a libertarian has a chance or if the democrat appears to be losing by a landslide... it is good to vote libertarian to show contempt but otherwise.... voting against democrats is just too important an American duty to take lightly.
lazs
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yeah miko
guess if not for 9/11 the airlines would have gone bust eh?
and to become anymore dependent on imports (trade cars for food) would be foolish as how long would they want evil american cars and to feed the great satan?
keep our farmers producing our food - thx anyways