Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Stiglr on September 29, 1999, 03:24:00 PM
-
Haven't had a chance to get in the air, but I really want to know...
Is the AH 109 G-10 Gustav modeled solely as a patsy target for Spits? Is it a wallowing pig like Warbirds' 109G6? Does it lack MW50 and NO2 boost, effectively making it a hunk of useless metal?
Inquiring LW fans want to know.
-
So far it`s the only plane I`ve flown,and theirs a lot of them up-I still haven`t seen a Spitfire.
------------------
}]
-
Stigler,
Why don't you go trolling somewhere else?
------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
-
Back to 109 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Actually, Stig, it is sweet. Climb and acceleration are awesome, and it seems much faster than Spits. 30mm is nice too.
109g10 gets in trouble if Spits sucker it in TnB. Still, dive seems to give an easy escape even then. Just don't load those gondolas (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Pyro, shaddap. That wasn't a troll. It was an honest question, with what you should consider a dig at your competition.
It's well-known that many think the most representative 109 of the war has been neutered in WB (I dunno what it's like in AW). You should see this as a chance to vindicate your flight model, instead of being so defensive.
Yes, I am critical by nature, but I am fairheaded. Watch where that foot goes when your knee jerks.
Oh, and have a nice day. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
-
Psst! Stig..
He made the 109-G6 the wallo...er plane that it is, so I'm not surprised he took offense. Besides, the G-10 is more of a kissing cousin to the K than it is to the G-6, no?
The early G series 109s were never really an *advancement* of the F series in spite of the numbers produced, it never matched up to its contemporaries like the F did. The WB version does needs help in a few areas (roll, climb vs F series, WEP embellishments), but don't expect to wipe the skies of Spit IXs and Mustangs with it, its a hit and run bird.
Lug
-
Stigler, I'm sorry that I mistook your honest concern for our game as a troll. I hope you can understand why I might jump to that conclusion because of the tone of the post and the fact that you've stated that you won't support AH and seem to sway other people into doing the same.
My mistake, I hope you forgive me. In the future however, please refrain from taking digs at the competition here. It only creates a bitter and non-constructive environment which I know you don't want to see. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
-
THe G-10 could be better IMO. It is a BIG improvement to that other one we all know, but the AH G-10 seems to compress a bit easily. No special boosts modelled..just standard wep (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) But it does have way cool loadout options, giving you the choice of 30mm or 20mm spinner cannon and 20mm gondolas. With the MG's, this gives you the option to loadout nearly 100mm of killing power (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I guess we'll never know just how close to the real thing it is, but it does seem very nice. Also the see-thru armoured glass behind the pilot is there! woohoo! Also the canopy struts are virtualy forgotten about with the excellent viewing system.
So to sum up, this plane will be a real threat in AH, especially if they 'fix' the compression probs (currently does so at speeds of 350-400mph).
Jon
-
There is no compression probs with the 109. Eric Brown says that at 400 mph, the controls felt like they were seized. A 109 took 4 seconds to roll 45 degrees at 400 mph.
-
I noticed the scores link on this page has plane vs. plane kill stats. As of 0100 Central on 30 Sep, the 109's dance card looked about like this:
109 vs Spit fights
109: killed 134 spits
Spit: killed 195 109s
109 vs 51
109: killed 154 51s
51: killed 158 109s
109 vs La5
109: killed 34 La5s
La5: killed 54 109s
There were also 75 109 kills of 109s.
-Bullethead <CAF>
-
To nassko:
Hey! How are you doing, my old messer nemesis? Glad to see you trying AH beta, and I hope you are able to fly here once production starts (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) As soon as I get my PIII 500 built I hope to see you in my lavochka (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
To all:
nassko is one of the best messer pilots I've ever played against in WB (and we've dueled many a time), but he has been strictly h2h due to financial reasons. If he says the Bf 109G-10 is nice, I believe him.
-
Nice to hear again from you, Leonid !
Yes, trying out Aces High, and I like it, even in this phase.
I have also been very cautious with all La-5 there, for you could have been in one of them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hope to see you up there soon !
-
Hi,
even if some of you will not agree, here is my opinion on the FM of 109-G10.
1. Compression is really bad, the plane tends to go into a spiral descent when you go over 400mph. You loose 5000-6000 feet when trying to get out of this. B&Z attacks are made very difficult by this.
2. The books tell me that the 109-G has been bale to turn with a P-51 over 5000 meters altitude. No way you could turn with a P-51 in AH.
3. Climbrate seems to be ok even if you have to be VERY careful on takeoff.
4. The Mk108 seems to be way too undermodeled. I hit a P51 3 times with cannon only and it still was flying.
(Looking forward to test it on a B17)
5. Compared to the other planes the 109 tends to stalls again. Hoped they would have changed that and am looking forward to compare to the 190 which has been highly maneuverable below 5000 meters. (Modeled wrong in WB let's see what the AH FM brings up here)
6. Tried to outclimb a Spit yesterday and had no chance to get away, even with only 35% fuel left and light equipment.
Overall I have to say that if LW would have had these sluggish planes in RL they never would have achieved that many victories against bigger numbers of allied planes.
------------------
-
I flew the 109 a couple of sorties yesteday.
I believe I nailed two spits, and then couldn't run away fast enough from a P-51.
I went with the whole truck load of guns, and if someone flies in front of you, well they are TOAST.
I did find it to stall pretty easy, and Recovery was a Royal squeak.
CLimb rate was fantastic.
Use the WHOLE RUNWAY to take off, get the gear up right away.
Keep your speed up, and don't turn more than twice with anything.
The Run away tactic dosen't appear to work.
------------------
"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
-
I have a 4:1 K/D in the Spit and 3:1 K/D in the 109. 4:11 in the P-51.
I have flown the Spit more than the 109.
------------------
"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
-
I would generally have to agree with this thread. Spitfire & Pony, pretty good. Me-109 and La5fn, need some work.
The Spitfire is just about what I would expect, except it is either slightly fast (no stopwatch tests yet) or the La5fn is too slow. Only difficulty is it seems to be very difficult to take off in, and once a real ground handling model is implemented, takeoffs may be a real squeak.
The Pony is a pleasent surprise. Its very docile and easy to takeoff in. Climb, speed, and roll are all about what I would expect. It certainly isn't a stellar TnB plane, but it is much easier to turn in than Pyro's WB's P-51 FM, since its not prone to those vicious accelerated stalls. Pretty much my favorite so far.
The Me-109G has me totally stumped. Turnrate is very poor, no suprise there. Climbrate seems fine, but it seems like its horizontal speed is too slow (again just a "feel" no solid data yet). And then you have the well documented compression problems. So you can't fight in the vertical, you can't outrun anything, and you can't outturn anything. About the only thing it has going for it is its BFG, in the G10/R6 mode where you have the 30mm nose gun, and x2 20mm in the gondola pods. But the times you get to use them are few and far between.
The La5fn I understand was the last plane Pyro did before the beta, so I am hoping it gets a tuneup soon, well... that is after he adds my N1K2 he hinted at on this BBS.
But the La5fn "feel" seems to be off significantly as well. In several situations I have had coalt/co-E Spits just flat out run away from me (they shouldn't if I remember right) and its turnrate is comparable to the Pony, and it should outturn both the 109G and the Pony. Admittedly, I need to fly the La5 more since my impression are from the first few hours I flew online in AH, and I may be off in my impressions.
Oh well, thats about it, I couldn't resist a good Flight Model thread. So Pyro, is the N1K2 next in line, Japan needs a representative in the planeset. ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), *MOL*, Men of Leisure, Goldlandia
AW's: (verm) ACCS, Aerial Crowd Control Services, Cland
-
The WB Bf 109G-6 is an excellent plane and flies very nicely YMMV. Same cannot be said about the current AH G-10. But I guess the G-10 ought to be compared with WB K-4 anyway if one must/can compare them at all.
At the moment I can see slight problems with the flaps of the G-10, but no surprise that the FMs aren't spot on. It's the first beta release of the game and look how many times WB's flight models have been tuned. It has also been stated that HTC is concentrating on server/FE stability issues so in that light FM problems don't seem too important.
//fats
-
Don't get me wrong Fats, I was just passing on my general feelings, I know they will get tuned later.
That said, I should correct myself. I checked my data and found that I am flat out wrong on what I said on the La5fn.
It should have an almost identical climb ability to the Spitfire (which it seems too). Its top speed is almost the same as the Spitfire (which it seems too), and everyfighter we have should outturn it, except the Pony which should be almost equal.
So basically, I would say that Pyro's La5 is quite good from what I have seen so far.
------------------
Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), *MOL*, Men of Leisure, Goldlandia
AW's: (verm) ACCS, Aerial Crowd Control Services, Cland
-
Not sure about performance...but the wing crosses are ALL wrong! Shouldn't they have just plain white outline crosses?
BTW I've VERY suprised this sim runs at ALL on my old pent 200 mmx (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Hvane't tried it online though and I probably won't until a get a SERIOUS upgrade. See you guys then!
-floo- fangs out
------------------
333rd Red Dawgs
JG 5 Eismeer
-
Stigler, I'm sorry that I mistook your honest concern for our game as a troll.
----
It was no mistake Pyro. Stig is trolling like a horny beaver in a rain forest.
If he had any intention of making an honest assesment he would have DLd the damn thing and gone out for spin!
Yeager