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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: gofaster on January 09, 2004, 11:49:49 AM

Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: gofaster on January 09, 2004, 11:49:49 AM
Took a bunch of rides yesterday, spent a few hours in the beast.  Came to the conclusion that it pretty much sucks at everything except being a target for single-engine fighters.

109s turn inside of it.

It can't get out of the way of HO'ing Spitfires.

N1ks dance around it like a May Pole.

Mustangs, Typhoons, and LA-7s just run away from it.

It will lose every single rolling turnfight to other fighters.

If you're not spot-on when shooting at a target on your high-speed run in to target, you're probably going to rip off a wingtip on your target's fuselage as you blow by the enemy on your high-speed guns pass.

Speaking of high-speed guns passes, get ready to compress at 350ias, which happens to be the average cruising speed for Mustangs, Tyhpoons and LA-7s.  And get ready to lose your wingtip if they're going slower that that.  If you see any of those 3 planes, don't try to fight them.  Just go ahead and drop down to the nearest airfield target and try to shoot an inanimate object, because that will probably be the only points you'll get out of the flight.

The dash is so high, that you will never, ever see the maneuvering enemy airplane when you shoot, and 95% of your shots still won't have enough lead time.

The only planes the P-38 can kill are other twin-engine fighters.  In other words, BF110s.  And bombers.

Every piece of ordinance a P-38 can carry, a Corsair can carry, too.  And its actually a fightable airplane.

Now I know why I stopped flying the P-38 a year or so ago.  :mad:
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: DYGCaps on January 09, 2004, 12:13:52 PM
If all this is true...why do I still continually get shot down by expereinced 38 drivers???
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Wadke on January 09, 2004, 12:44:45 PM
:rolleyes: :rofl

The P-38 is a gem....It is actually a great all around plane for whatever kind of work you may think of doing..... Try vertical manuevers...nothing IMO opinion is near as good as the P-38 in vertical Dang thing can hang forever on prop and blast ya as yer stallin out....I really never liked the P-38 when i started....until BURNM showed me the ropes and how beautiful it actually is.... BTW anyone seen him lately?

disclaimer: I AM NOT A P-38 specialist nor a specialist in anything i fly
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: gofaster on January 09, 2004, 01:51:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wadke
Try vertical manuevers...nothing IMO opinion is near as good as the P-38 in vertical


Mustangs and 109s can eat the P-38 in the vertical.  The 109's WEP can carry it higher and the Mustang can bring more energy to the initial merge.  And both can out race a P-38.  I got the P-38 to hang on its props, but once its there it can't maneuver to line up a shot.

I have better luck in the A-20 in the vertical and looping fight than I do in a P-38, plus with an A-20 I can use the F3 external view to maintain SA.

About the best asset of the P-38 vs the other American fighters is its climb rate.  It can also take a fair amount of damage and continue to fly ok on a single engine.  Of course, once you start hanging ordinance on it the climb rate advantage disappears, as does its cruising speed.  :(
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 09, 2004, 03:24:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DYGCaps
If all this is true...why do I still continually get shot down by expereinced 38 drivers???


spit the hook out.



ack-ack
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: XtrmeJ on January 09, 2004, 03:41:41 PM


Im gonna teach this guy! Lemme at em!
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Sway on January 09, 2004, 03:55:17 PM
Cute post ;)
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Estes on January 09, 2004, 04:06:41 PM
Not as cute as you. ;)
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: TracerX on January 09, 2004, 04:50:14 PM
OOH, you can't fool me Gofaster.  Your scaring everyone else away and saving it for yourself!!  I know your type!!  I knew it was secretly the best plane out there, now I know!  Watch out everyone, you'll be fanning the flames from my P38 tonight! :D
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Murdr on January 09, 2004, 09:20:26 PM
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 09, 2004, 11:22:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wadke
I really never liked the P-38 when i started....until BURNM showed me the ropes and how beautiful it actually is.... BTW anyone seen him lately?

 



I think he no longer flies.  He left the 479th and hasn't been up since and that was quite a bit ago.


ack-ack
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Murdr on January 10, 2004, 10:56:55 AM
I seen/spoke with him in Nov.  RL issues are preventing him from flying much, but he visits briefly as he is able.
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Sway on January 10, 2004, 12:09:47 PM
even cuter ;)
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: YUCCA on January 10, 2004, 12:24:32 PM
Um a good stick in a p38 will kill a 109 easily.  Just a matter of managing your E, Flaps, and throttle.
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Urchin on January 10, 2004, 12:39:38 PM
Depends on the 109 I should think.  P38 is going to have a tough time killing a G-10.  The others should die pretty easily though.  

A Spit 9 will destroy a P-38, so will a n1k.  La7 will just run away from one, same with tiffie, most run09s and run90s, P51s.  If you can trick one into fighting you you can kill it.  Spit and N1k kinda make the P38 useless though, in my opinion.
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Sway on January 10, 2004, 03:23:41 PM
Urchin Says:

"Depends on the 109 I should think. P38 is going to have a tough time killing a G-10. The others should die pretty easily though.

A Spit 9 will destroy a P-38, so will a n1k. La7 will just run away from one, same with tiffie, most run09s and run90s, P51s. If you can trick one into fighting you you can kill it. Spit and N1k kinda make the P38 useless though, in my opinion."


All depens on who the pilots are, I am capable of out dogfighting an average n1k/spit pilot in a 38, no zooming, just flat/vert. turns.  P38 is stable so its good at low speed, and spit/n1k aren't as easy to control going slow.
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 10, 2004, 06:38:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
I seen/spoke with him in Nov.  RL issues are preventing him from flying much, but he visits briefly as he is able.



If you speak with him again, please tell him I said hello.


ack-ack
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: sonar732 on January 10, 2004, 07:10:05 PM
Did y'all go into the training arena or record your offline flying to hone your skills?  I've introduced a few friends of mine to the game and suggested that we go H2H to "play" without shooting.  Please respond.
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: LWACE on January 11, 2004, 12:23:53 AM
I agree about them fights, all depends on the pilots, a good 109

stick could handle a P-38 depending on alts and speeds etc.

Although there are some damn good 38 sticks out there also, ive

been blasted by my share of fair 1 vs 1 109 vs P-38 fights always

leaves me wonderin what the hell happend . Man thatd be cool,id

like to see a fight between good 109 and 38 sticks with fair alts

etc.
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Hazard69 on January 11, 2004, 02:53:07 PM
Originally posted by gofaster
Took a bunch of rides yesterday, spent a few hours in the beast. Came to the conclusion that it pretty much sucks at everything except being a target for single-engine fighters.
 109s turn inside of it.

It can't get out of the way of HO'ing Spitfires.

N1ks dance around it like a May Pole.

Mustangs, Typhoons, and LA-7s just run away from it.

It will lose every single rolling turnfight to other fighters.

If you're not spot-on when shooting at a target on your high-speed run in to target, you're probably going to rip off a wingtip on your target's fuselage as you blow by the enemy on your high-speed guns pass.

Speaking of high-speed guns passes, get ready to compress at 350ias, which happens to be the average cruising speed for Mustangs, Tyhpoons and LA-7s. And get ready to lose your wingtip if they're going slower that that. If you see any of those 3 planes, don't try to fight them. Just go ahead and drop down to the nearest airfield target and try to shoot an inanimate object, because that will probably be the only points you'll get out of the flight.

The dash is so high, that you will never, ever see the maneuvering enemy airplane when you shoot, and 95% of your shots still won't have enough lead time.

The only planes the P-38 can kill are other twin-engine fighters. In other words, BF110s. And bombers.

Every piece of ordinance a P-38 can carry, a Corsair can carry, too. And its actually a fightable airplane.

Now I know why I stopped flying the P-38 a year or so ago.  



Very true......in certain conditions....:rolleyes::p
109s turn inside of it...only if u going at med to high speeds...depending on 109.
It can't get out of the way of HO'ing Spitfires.....if u dont use rudders and let em HO you.:rofl
N1ks dance around it like a May Pole......if u stay level and turn
Mustangs, Typhoons, and LA-7s just run away from it......and thats because they know better (run rather fight a P38)
It will lose every single rolling turnfight to other fighters.....again if u dont use rudders and try to roll at slow speeds...at 300mph+ P38 rolls like a FW190:aok
If you're not spot-on when shooting at a target on your high-speed run in to target, you're probably going to rip off a wingtip on your target's fuselage as you blow by the enemy on your high-speed guns pass.......occasionally...its called target fixation:p
Speaking of high-speed guns passes, get ready to compress at 350ias, which happens to be the average cruising speed for Mustangs, Tyhpoons and LA-7s. And get ready to lose your wingtip if they're going slower that that. If you see any of those 3 planes, don't try to fight them. Just go ahead and drop down to the nearest airfield target and try to shoot an inanimate object, because that will probably be the only points you'll get out of the flight.....lol again target fixation and all three are beaten in the vertical, just make sure they dont get guns on you first....especially typhie :eek:
The dash is so high, that you will never, ever see the maneuvering enemy airplane when you shoot, and 95% of your shots still won't have enough lead time......if u firing at 1.2k and u havent heard of customised views.:(
The only planes the P-38 can kill are other twin-engine fighters. In other words, BF110s. And bombers...in the hands of a spifire pilot maybe... :lol :p
Every piece of ordinance a P-38 can carry, a Corsair can carry, too. And its actually a fightable airplane.....heheh...ever stalled in one at 1000ft and recovered????:)
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: B17Skull12 on January 11, 2004, 03:32:05 PM
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_115_1073856688.jpg)
if that happens then the p38 doesn't suck:D
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: simshell on January 11, 2004, 05:29:53 PM
gofaster keep up the good work the more people that stop flying P38's the better for me and my P38:D
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Sway on January 11, 2004, 06:02:49 PM
Average.... b17skull... ;)
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: bigjava on January 11, 2004, 06:48:22 PM
gofaster....

u write:


Quote

109s turn inside of it.

It can't get out of the way of HO'ing Spitfires.

N1ks dance around it like a May Pole.

Mustangs, Typhoons, and LA-7s just run away from it.

It will lose every single rolling turnfight to other fighters

   


but p-38 is not a turn but is a
STALLFIGTHER
i begin to be succesfully in p-38,
 since i have learned 4 secrets about it (from people like aka wadke XtremJ.....):
1)use flap !!
2)stay Fast as u can
3)manovre on vertical and climb!
4)use flap again!!!!

and of course there is no way to scream that a plane ****

even a not well armed plane like an italian 202 it is going to be bloody warbirds.....
.... if u ride it looking at the SA and to the E.....u know dude!!!
that is!!!!



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(http://www.altoprogetto.it/bigjava.gif)
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: B17Skull12 on January 11, 2004, 07:15:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sway
Average.... b17skull... ;)
lets see.  from my time at AH i've got 1 10+ kill sortie (h2h) and what 5 5-10 kill sorties.  Rare for me hehe.
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: gofaster on January 12, 2004, 09:26:33 AM
Oh, I forgot to mention, I can't see crap out of that canopy.

On the night in question, I was flying intercepts out of A1 on Trinity with Bish 109s and Mustangs coming in from the north.  Fuel was porked to 25% so I was using the Lightning for intercepts since it had a pretty good fuel burn time at 25% and has the best climb of the big American planes.  Average alt of the incoming was 15k, average alt when I merged, 10k going nose up.  109s stayed above me the whole time, except when they dove away to extend out for another run.  Actually got a couple to go into a maneuvering fight in a scissors at 200ias-300ias and they outrolled me.  Rudders didn't help.  If my target didn't kill me at the scissors merge, then a Mustang coming in the blindspot did.

On the other hand, I've killed more P-38s (4) than have killed me (2).  Meanwhile, I've gotten 6 kills and died 12 times in it.  I'm 3 and 3 in the A-20.  Still a bit early to tell, but the P-38 is looking more like prey than a predator for me.

I'm giving up on the P-38 as a fighter.

Corsairs rock!
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: seabat on January 12, 2004, 09:28:04 AM
Good thing the p38 is around so people forget about the p47!  :)
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: vorticon on January 12, 2004, 04:23:22 PM
the p38 makes a great lawndart...


hmm...novelty p38 lawndarts...nonlethal...fun for all...i have a idea
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: SlapShot on January 12, 2004, 04:52:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon
the p38 makes a great lawndart...


hmm...novelty p38 lawndarts...nonlethal...fun for all...i have a idea


If you are using COMBAT TRIM.
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: B17Skull12 on January 12, 2004, 05:43:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon
the p38 makes a great lawndart...


hmm...novelty p38 lawndarts...nonlethal...fun for all...i have a idea
What Nomads are Famous For!
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Delirium on January 12, 2004, 08:56:31 PM
I resemble that remark!

Its pretty bad when even the youngins' know about us. :D
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Ecliptik on January 12, 2004, 11:10:33 PM
There are only a few aircraft that I will refuse to engage co-E with the 38, and they're all the top turners.  I fear the Spit V most.  If the Spit driver is as good as I am, he should beat me every time.  Luckily, the 38 has a comfortable top speed and acceleration advantage, so escape is an option.   Same thing goes for zeros.   BnZ only.  The nice thing about fighting zeros is their atrocious zoom climb compared to the 38.  N1KJ's will gain angles on a 38 in an extended fight, but the 38 is capable of pulling for a firing solution early on with proper flap use.   If the fight drags on and I can't get guns, I'll try to extend at the first good opportunity.

Slapshot said it all.  If you use combat trim with the 38, you're negating all of its wonderful vertical handling characteristics.
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Kweassa on January 13, 2004, 04:18:37 PM
Frankly, as a Bf109 fan, the two planes I absolutely do not fight against are the Nikis and the P-38L.
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Sway on January 13, 2004, 04:38:52 PM
Love eatin 109's.... the flaps suck so its impossible for it to slow down enough... yummm.... :D
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: B17Skull12 on January 13, 2004, 06:07:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sway
Love eatin 109's.... the flaps suck so its impossible for it to slow down enough... yummm.... :D
109 with alt will make a cherry out of that lighting.:D
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 13, 2004, 06:39:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by B17Skull12
What Nomads are Famous For!



Actually they are known for their high quality sheep.  Augering is just one of their favorite past times.



ack-ack
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 13, 2004, 06:41:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by B17Skull12
109 with alt will make a cherry out of that lighting.:D



That's the only real chance a bf109 has against a P-38.  



ack-ack
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: pellik on January 13, 2004, 07:19:36 PM
The 38 has a slow learning curve, if you're not willing to take a tour to figure it out don't expect it to hold up against other fighters (such as la7 and zeke) with such obvious strengths that any newbie can land kills occasionally.

109s can do alright in a rolling scissors, but I almost never get beat by em. The first few seconds they pull an incredible turn but once the 38 gets its speed down and pops flaps it usually gets angles.

SpitV is dangerous, but high turn rate corrosponds with low speeds. If you pick a good merge for the situation the only spitV that should be a threat is one with alt (thats true for any plane, really). Go in for a merge and if the spit gets around on you so fast you don't know whats going on just go into a roaping maneuver. The 38 has something on every plane, on the spitV its speed and vertical stalls.

Raise your head a little in the 38s cockpit to help with tracking targets at high anles.

Remember when you hear people say the 38 has some advantage on every plane that doesn't mean it has something in every situation. Knowing how to approach a fight in a 38 is very important, as with any of the slower E-fighters.

As for compression, when do you really need to be going more then 450 tas? If your style of BnZ is to build up a massive surplus of energy so nobody can touch you then you've got a lot to learn before you worry about the 38. BnZ in a 38 is a matter of having a little energy and knowing how to keep it, taking gun passes around 400 ias. This is preferable for roaping maneuvers as its easy to spot that a pony has tremendous E, but the slow 38 will take so long to stall that it doesnt matter if you can catch him, if you can't shoot him your going nose down first.

Whoever it was that was bad-mouthing the jug needs to try one before writing it off. P-47 has an incredible turn rate, holds E pretty well, and 8 50's can kill anything fast. The only trick is to pop combat flaps and turn nose down.

-pellik
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: killnu on January 13, 2004, 08:49:59 PM
Skull, that all depends on the pilots:}
~S~
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: B17Skull12 on January 13, 2004, 10:58:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
That's the only real chance a bf109 has against a P-38.  



ack-ack
:D

btw how well does P38 do hammerhead?
only ACM move i really can do to cause over shoot then kill em :p
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 13, 2004, 11:59:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by B17Skull12
:D

btw how well does P38 do hammerhead?
only ACM move i really can do to cause over shoot then kill em :p


Better than any plane in AH.  One of the perks of flying a twin engine plane with no torque.



ack-ack
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Hazard69 on January 14, 2004, 02:49:25 PM
Originally posted by B17Skull12
btw how well does P38 do hammerhead?

Lol B17Skull12......the P38 can pull some of the quickest hammerheads ever...although I admit I havent perfected the skill yet....If u chop throttle on 1 engine with full on the other on the way up....it does the hammerhead faster than u can put throttle back up.....I am having to actually use opposite rudder to the hammerhead just to prevent overshooting......its LETHAL.....:aok when I can get it to work :o ;) :D
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: 38ruk on January 15, 2004, 03:57:30 AM
hmmm this is a very education post ... i better look for a new plane cause the 38 doesnt stand a chance ....lol 38maw
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: YUCCA on January 16, 2004, 04:19:21 PM
All planes have weaknesses.  No one plane is going to be the best in any given situation.  If you want hte best plane you might as well fly 262's.  But if you really really really really really really wanna fly a good plane ditch the lawndart and pickup a jug :)
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: sonar732 on January 16, 2004, 04:38:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hazard69
Originally posted by B17Skull12
btw how well does P38 do hammerhead?

Lol B17Skull12......the P38 can pull some of the quickest hammerheads ever...although I admit I havent perfected the skill yet....If u chop throttle on 1 engine with full on the other on the way up....it does the hammerhead faster than u can put throttle back up.....I am having to actually use opposite rudder to the hammerhead just to prevent overshooting......its LETHAL.....:aok when I can get it to work :o ;) :D


Help a newbie out with the hammerhead term.  Also, how do you lower the throttle on only one engine of 2 engine planes?
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Ecliptik on January 16, 2004, 06:34:26 PM
By default, Shift+1 for engine one, Shift+2 for engine 2, Shift+e to control both engines normally.  Both throttle and RPMs can be adjusted individually.

A hammerhead is a vertical manouever with numerous variations.  The basic principle is that you lead your opponent into a steep climb until he can no longer follow and begins to stall out, at which point you reverse and zoom down on him while he has little control of his aircraft.  Proper execution takes good timing, which comes with practice.   Your opponent must also not have more E than you, or you'll be the one to stall out first and get blown away.
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Xjazz on January 16, 2004, 07:38:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hazard69
Lol B17Skull12......the P38 can pull some of the quickest hammerheads ever...although I admit I havent perfected the skill yet....If u chop throttle on 1 engine with full on the other on the way up....it does the hammerhead faster than u can put throttle back up.....I am having to actually use opposite rudder to the hammerhead just to prevent overshooting......its LETHAL.....:aok when I can get it to work :o ;) :D


Looong time a go I testing my HOTAS setting just for fun(X36usb+Logitech racing pedals).
I set rudder to the X36 throttle and to the pedals I put... left and right engine throttles.
Lots of fun when hammering all over with foot throttle pedals:D
Title: The P-38 sucks!
Post by: Sway on January 17, 2004, 12:35:43 PM
Gotta laugh at that Jug comment... ;)