Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sox62 on January 10, 2004, 05:06:59 AM
-
Remember the"Here Kitty Kitty" thread?
Guess someone should have told this one that they are afraid of humans.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/01/09/mountain.lion/index.html
-
There's a reason cougars (and wolves) were hunted hard throughout the late 1800's and early part of the 1900's.
Maybe after Ingrid Newkirk's child or grandchild gets drug off into the brush...........
-
Has there ever been a reported case of a wolf attacking a human?? I live in northern Mn where there is the largest wolf population in the lower 48 and have never even heard of an attack.
-
Originally posted by tzr
Has there ever been a reported case of a wolf attacking a human??
Nope
-
Wolves have been hunted for attacking on cattle.
But they're fast learners and nowadays happens much less than a century or couple ago and pretty much attacks cattle if theres lack of other food. (and might have something to do with much smaller wolf communities)
-
I wonder what the animal was doing. Is this normal behavior to leave a kill behind and make another?
-
Sorry MT, but you're wrong.
Wolf v Human attacks are rare but they do happen. Some are rabid wolves, some are not, but there are documented cases.
Google up "Linnell report" and McNay report" or go to the Wolf Trust. They're pro-wolf and they admit it happens around the world.
Here, in the early times, wolves were a threat to survival. They ate the livestock needed to survive and sometimes even attacked humans. They were occupying part of the same niche at the top of the food chain. The competitors were removed.
-
More people die from-
Infected Papercuts
Having a tree fall on them
Squirrel bites
Shark attacks
Changing a flat tire
Boils
Cuticles
Zits
Spider Bites
Than have died from cougar attacks.
Toad's problem is he hates animals.
-
Thank you Toad, I stand corrected.
-
From the 'Wolf Trust'
"The Linnell Report found that most fatal attacks on humans were by rabid wolves, there were few fatal predatory attacks on humans, none in North America, and no one was killed when wolves attacked defensively. Moreover, during the last fifty years the researchers could only find records of 17 people killed in Europe and Russia and none in North America."
Well.... this supports something I'd heard but could never prove. I'm glad I ran across this thread.
-
For the record... My cougar has been sitting on my desk under close supervision all week.
MiniD
-
Cougars, bears and wolves need to be protected but they also need to be controlled. California is known to have passed strong legislation protecting Cougars to an extent that has become painfull to some very unlucky people of that state.
I am always amazed at the grace and beauty of those wild cats and wish them well. Besides, there are plenty of Californians and not very many Cougars, yet. Sounds like a fair shake for the big cats.
-
Leave the cats alone, just remove the stupid humans
I don't swim in lakes with gators, should they be removed so I can? I don't think so..
-
LOS ANGELES TIMES January 10, 2004
Mauled Man May Have Been Fixing Bike
Cyclist's crouching position could have attracted the mountain lion that killed him.
By Christine Hanley, Kimi Yoshino and Mike Anton, Times Staff Writers
Authorities confirmed Friday that a mountain lion killed 35-year-old cyclist Mark Reynolds, whose body was found shortly after another cougar attack along a popular trail in the rugged Orange County foothills.
It is the sixth fatal mauling of a human by a mountain lion in California and the first since 1994.
Deputies said Thursday night that they shot and killed the 110-pound mountain lion responsible for the attacks, but on Friday they weren't taking any chances. For now, they will shoot to kill any mountain lion they encounter near the trail, Orange County sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino said.
Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park, in the foothills of the Santa Ana Mountains, will remain closed indefinitely.
By Friday morning, investigators believed they knew how the attack unfolded. About noon Thursday, the chain broke on Reynolds' bike, putting the Foothill Ranch cyclist near a stalking mountain lion. Authorities said Friday that when Reynolds crouched to fix his bike, he assumed a posture that probably spurred the lion to attack.
The lion dragged him off the trail, and Reynolds' body went undetected until late Thursday afternoon, authorities said.
Thursday afternoon, the cougar, protective of its now partially buried prey, mauled another passing biker. Anne Hjelle, 30, of south Orange County was rescued by her riding companion and other trail bikers as she was being dragged by the head into the brush. She remains hospitalized in serious condition.
With the help of trackers in helicopters using infrared scopes, two Orange County sheriff's deputies shot and killed an apparently healthy, 110-pound, 2-year-old male mountain lion late Thursday. Its paw prints matched those near the scene of the attacks, officials said.
Later Thursday night, a 70-pound female lion was killed by a car about four miles away, but officials do not believe that animal was involved in the attacks.
Wildlife experts estimate that there are 4,000 to 6,000 adult mountain lions in California, including about half a dozen in the Whiting Ranch park area. Attacks, though, are rare. Reynolds is the first fatality in Orange County.
"Often [cougars] are reclusive and don't want to be seen," said Doug Updike, a senior wildlife biologist with the California Department of Fish and Game. "It's very abnormal behavior. You're more likely to be struck by lightning" than attacked by a mountain lion.
Since 1890, there have been 21 attacks in California — 19 of them occurring since 1986.
He pointed out, though, that Reynolds was alone when he was attacked — as are nearly all victims of cougar maulings. And he was probably crouching — a posture, Updike said, that can convey weakness to a stalking cat.
Mountain lion experts say that while the animals generally stay away from humans, they are more likely to attack small prey, such as a person in a crouched position. To a cougar, the difference between a person bent over fixing a bicycle and a small animal may be indistinguishable. And when they do attack, their tendency is to snatch an object and pull it toward them — like a cat snagging a toy.
Tests on the animal that was killed may reveal additional clues explaining its aggressiveness.
Wildlife experts say that increased development in wild areas has made such incidents inevitable. "You have more people living and recreating in lion habitat," Updike said.
Among them are mountain bikers like Reynolds and Hjelle, who take to the trails as a way to test themselves. Reynolds' co-workers at the Anaheim office of OMS Sports, a Kentucky-based marketing firm that represents extreme sports athletes, described the account executive as an outgoing, competitive cyclist and motocross racer.
"I can't begin to tell you the amount of grief and pain our company and clients are suffering right now," said company President Fred Bramblett. "I'm numb. This is so unreal. Mark was a very loyal, very hard-working employee here at OMS Sports and will be sorely missed by all of those he came across. Such a tragic, tragic event."
A family friend, Ruth Gaddie, said Reynolds' parents in St. Joseph, Mo., are "taking comfort knowing that he died doing what he loved most."
But, she added, "The fact of how he was killed is very disturbing to [them]. They're in shock."
Cycling, Gaddie said, was the love of Reynolds' life.
He did it in his spare time, on vacations, at races and — by extension — for a living. He was such an avid biker that he left Colorado a couple of years ago and moved to Southern California so that he could ride year-round, though his friends say even bad weather in Colorado Springs didn't keep him off his bike.
Reynolds' former boss, Chris Carmichael, recalled spotting bike tracks in about six inches of snow. "I remember thinking, 'What guy is riding his bike on this day?' " said Carmichael, who coaches five-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong. "At the bottom of the canyon I looked up, and it was Mark. He was just a die-hard."
The Missouri native was committed to cycling and was in great physical shape after losing about 40 pounds. But his friends said cycling was not the only thing that defined him. He was friendly and generous, with a knack for making people feel better.
"If you were getting a little stressed, he'd just give you a goofy look and say, 'You need a hug,' " said friend and former co-worker Kevin Dessart. "And then he'd give you a hug just to throw you off and get you out of your funk…. A real good guy."
The last several Christmases he bought bikes and gave them to poor children. It was something he did quietly, without seeking attention or asking for a lot of help.
But it was the passion for biking that drew him, again and again, to the trails in south Orange County. And, though they did not know each other, it is a passion he shared with Hjelle, who frequently rode the same trails at Whiting Ranch.
She was riding Thursday with members of the Trail Angels, a Christian women's mountain biking group based at Saddleback Community Church in Lake Forest. When Hjelle joined three years ago, she quickly stood out as one of the group's strongest riders, earning the nickname "top sprocket."
"She doesn't go out there to prove anything to anyone," said Jacke Van Woerkom, 41, of Lake Forest. "She's out there because she loves riding with a passion."
She may not be out to prove anything, but her friend and frequent riding partner, Debi Nicholls — the woman who saved her life — said Hjelle possesses a competitive streak.
"She is really hard-core, but doesn't have the stomach for racing," Nicholls said. "She just preferred to ride hard and kick every man's butt in Orange County, which she can. She's humble, but if there is a guy in front of her, she won't let him stay there."
Hjelle, a fitness trainer and former Marine, met her husband while mountain biking. She would often call him from her cell phone when she reached a summit.
After the attack Thursday, she was conscious and coherent — asking friends to call her husband.
She underwent a lengthy surgery Friday at Mission Hospital Regional Medical Center in Mission Viejo to help repair deep cuts to her face.
Nicholls said she visited Hjelle several times and does not know how long her friend will remain in the hospital. In an interview at her home in the Orange County foothill community of Rancho Cielo, she recounted the attack.
She said Hjelle was screaming, "I'm going to die! I'm going to die!" But Nicholls held on tight to Hjelle's left leg and told her, "I am not going to let you die!"
Nicholls threw her bicycle at the lion to distract it, but "he didn't even flinch. He was so focused on her."
Friends from the Trail Angels gathered at the hospital, bringing two bouquets of white lilies and purple tulips, an angel statue bearing a Scripture passage and a waist-high get-well card signed by dozens of the group's members.
One rode her bike across it, leaving a track of dirt. Some chose to show their support by joining an already-scheduled ride Friday morning.
"Going on that ride was the best thing we could've done," said Jody Marcon, 39, of Dana Point. "Get together, cry a little and ride. We prayed big time for everybody."
In the Portola Hills neighborhood next to Whiting Ranch, residents said they were stunned. The wilderness park is one of the area's draws. Jill Wasserman, 24, who lives less than a mile from where the attacks occurred, rides horses along the trails and has seen mountain lion tracks.
"I think it will scare some people off and make them think twice about riding alone," Wasserman said. "I'm riding a 1,000-pound horse, thinking I'm not going to get hurt. But I won't ride by myself anymore after this."
Scott Pool, 34, moved to the area from Lake Forest to get away from the traffic and noise.
"This is a nice neighborhood to raise a family," he said, "but my legs are shaking just thinking about what happened last night."
-
Originally posted by Eagler
Leave the cats alone, just remove the stupid humans
I don't swim in lakes with gators, should they be removed so I can? I don't think so.. [/
B]
Amen
-
Originally posted by Airhead
Toad's problem is he hates animals.
No, just misconceptions, right MT?
For a guy that hates animals, I sure do like my Labs.
Remember Air, there's room for all Cod's creatures..... right next to the mashed potatoes!
-
A traveling salesman stays overnight with a farm family. When the family gathers to eat there's a pig seated at the table. And the pig has three medals hanging around his neck and a peg leg. The salesman says, "Um, I see you have a pig having dinner with you."
"Yes," says the farmer. "That's because he's a very special pig. You see those medals around his neck? Well, the first medal is from when our youngest son fell in the pond, and he was drowning, and that pig swam out and saved his life. The second medal, that's from when the barn caught fire and our little daughter was trapped in there and the pig ran inside, carried her out and saved her life. And the third medal, that's from when our oldest boy was cornered in the stock yard by a mean bull, and that pig ran under the fence and bit the bull on the tail and saved the boy's life."
"Yes," says the salesman, "I can see why you let that pig sit right at the table and have dinner with you. And I can see why you awarded him the medals. But how did he get the peg leg?"
"Well," says, the farmer, "a pig like that--you don't eat him all at once."
-
I know of some runners who carry firearms while they run. Usually they carry the lightest .22s they can find. But bikers have the luxury of being able to carry something heavier.
I'm not sure if a .22 would kill a cougar, but it would sure discourage it.
-
Originally posted by SunTracker
I'm not sure if a .22 would kill a cougar, but it would sure discourage it.
They say wounded animal gets just more furious.. thats what I believe .22 does.
Doesn't necessarily even stop human whos high on drugs, until it's too late..
Although .22 is better than nothing, not much difference whether the animal is more or less p*ssed off when it's going to attack you anyway.
At least .22 has higher odds than pair of fists and the wounded animal won't be living doing too good afterwards, even if you're dead.. at least it'd save the other probable victims.
-
Fishu-
For a predatory animal, every hunt is risk analysis. Will this kill come at the expense of being hurt? Will I be able to heal without infection? Could the infection kill me?
Injured or sick animals can't hunt. It doesn't take much to scare off a predator unless it is ill or starving. This male lion appears to be neither, so a .22 would probably do the trick.
-
Originally posted by Kieran
For a predatory animal, every hunt is risk analysis. Will this kill come at the expense of being hurt?
One of the saddest things I ever saw on TV was a lioness who had been kicked in the mouth while trying to take down a kill.
The kick broke her jaw and she was just laying there afterwards knowing she was dead...can't eat with a broken jaw. Unless the film crew finnished her off she would have starved to death...in agony.
-
Originally posted by Airhead
More people die from-
Infected Papercuts
Having a tree fall on them
Squirrel bites
Shark attacks
Changing a flat tire
Boils
Cuticles
Zits
Spider Bites
Than have died from cougar attacks.
Toad's problem is he hates animals.
You forgot Bungee Jumping, Myron.
-
ESPECIALLY bungee jumping.
-
There is one big problem with cougers in California. There is too many. Each cougar needs "X" square miles and there is only a set amount of land in cali, that is why we are seeing more and more cougars in cali. The population is neer full capacity for the land and some game species (deer mainly) are having a hard time recouperiating from the big winter kill of '92'. I agree that they need to be protected but they also need to be controlled. I have come across more mountain lions in Cali than any other state in the west. They have no fear of humans because they havent been hunted in more than 20 years. In states where lions are hunted there is very few problems because they go out of their way to avoid humans.
-
.22's and cougars?
All the cats have a thin skull. IF, and that's a big IF, you pop them in the brain pan you win; "right now" pretty quick win too.
I can speak for miniature cougars, the Kansas bobcat. Relatively easy to put down with a shotgun using pheasant loads, if in range. They're thin-skinned and any shot to the chest ruins the lungs and vital organs. Also easy to put down in a snare with a .22 to the head.
I suspect though, that like bobcats, most cougars would rather be somewhere else when a human encroaches on their personal space. Sure, every once in a while you get a "bad actor" that's either hurt, rabid... of just plain fond of "human tartare". I think that's pretty rare though.
-
Originally posted by Toad
No, just misconceptions, right MT?
For a guy that hates animals, I sure do like my Labs.
Remember Air, there's room for all Cod's creatures..... right next to the mashed potatoes!
If the guy had a lab with him he probably would have lived.
-
Labs aren't longwinded enough to run the 20-30 miles nor the speed an average biker would do for a workout.