Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Udie on March 27, 2000, 03:31:00 PM
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Hey guys, I need some help bad. My boss got a FREE computer from Compaq (I said FREE) Well it came w/ NT 4.0 on it and we don't want to use NT 4.0 we like 98.
Well it won't let me boot to C drive to install 98. it said there's not a valid FAT or FAT32 allocation thingy. I looked in NT and it said it was using NTFS ( Not To Freakin Swift?) and it won't let me format from within windows.
Can any of you kind gentlemen/women tell me how to put a FAT or FAT32 on this disk and wipe out NT altogether? PLEASE?!?!?!
My boss will be realy happy with me if you can help.........
thnx
udie
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Try an Fdisk on it Udie. You'll want to do that anyway since NTFS only allows 4 Gig partitions.
Ah.. the wonderul thing about 98.. bye-bye partitions (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
AKDejaVu
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Have you tried installing a bootable floppy in the A: drive? You should be able to get to a DOS prompt that way. Copy over your necessary DOS commands and you should be able to make NT go away.
Of course the real experts in here may have a better way. I have no NT experience so... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I guess ya could boot to dos from a floppy and fdisk the drive, wiping out all the partitions/drives, then set them up the way you want them and install win98 then.
Dinnae if that'd be the quickest/easist way of doing it though....
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Ok, this is really simple. Win 98 uses File Allocation Table (FAT) NT uses a newer "mapping" protocal. To install 98 you need to reformat the hard drive "F-Disk" in geek terms.
Then you install a clean copy of 98 from the CD. You'll need a boot disk to do this..or the Win98 boot disk that comes with most Win 98 CD's...OEM copies of 98 are harder...full retail copies are easier.
If your not sure you can do this your better off finding a comp usa to do it for you.
I've done it a 1/2 dozen times but I'm not confident posting a step by step since I always have to fidle with it a bit.
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hehe that was fast! but let me give some more info...
I tried booting w/ the boot disk I made for win98. BUT when I do this I cannot access drive c or run FDISK. Should I make a boot disk from with in NT to boot to dos from NT?
this is my first experience with NT, and I don't like it hehehehehe.
udie
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Yoodee,
Boot to a DOS floppy, and use the fdisk command. You'll want to select the option to "Delete a non-DOS partition". That should get rid of it for ya.
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"
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You won't be able to get the c: prompt unless you are using NT. That is the security benifit of NTFS.
That aside... why won't FDisk work? Or.. what isn't working... You can't find FDisk, or fdisk won't delete the partition?
AKDejaVu
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Well I'm using a win98 startup disk, and I get NO access to c:\ (it creates a ramdrive and calls it C:\) I assume this is the security feature. I looked to see about making a bootup disk from within NT but saw no such option. I'm gonna goof around with it for the rest of the day and see if I can just get to DOS from within NT.
Thnx for the help guys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
udie
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boot from the floppy
at the A: prompt type
fdisk[enter]
Choose option 3, delete partition or logical dos drive
Choose option 4, delete non-dos partition
then ya gotta create a partition (or more if you want to break it up into several drives)
Then install win98
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This is step by step solution to your problem.
1. boot from win98 startup disk enable cdrom support - (do not enable large disk support)
2. run fdisk from floppy (this accesses the hardware directly not needing to see any c: drive.
3.delete all partitions (they will be unrecognized since they are NT
4. reboot from floppy with cdrom support - (this time enable large disk support)
5. run fdisk again check for partitions there should be NONE
6. create prinary partition (using fdisk)
7. make one large active partition (this is the default)
8. reboot form floppy again with cdrom support - you will now have a c: drive
9. from the diskette run format c:
10. now create a c:\wincabs folder
11 copy files from win98 d:\win98 folder to c:\wincabs
from c:\wincabs directory run setup
12 continue to install win98 If/when you change win98 settings this method will NOT prompt you for the CD (irritating)
13. Send gift$ to FDace.
[This message has been edited by FDAce (edited 03-27-2000).]
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doh .. better read before type .. -> me that is
[This message has been edited by Duckwing6 (edited 03-27-2000).]
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Udie
(http://ftp://ftp.diploma.ru/incoming/compaq.jpg)
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Aper,
Not true, there is some future (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) My company gets alot of home design business from them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) and all their VP's and the CPU was FREE I thought I sad that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Who could say no to a free P3 730 and a free 21" monitor?
FDAce,
I'll try that tomarow. I was telling fdisk YES when it asked about large disk. I hope that was my problem.
thnx
Udie
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That "Large disk" option is just to make your system in FAT16 (if you click no) or Fat32 (if you click yes). For Win98 click yes. Fat16 is for NT and Win95a. AVOID IT. You WANT FAT32 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Udie, I would take an ACME 66mhz DX2 over a Compaq 4Ghz ANY DAY.
Compaq's are dung built upon dung and sold..as dung. They cheap and useless, with the only "guarantee" is that you will be throwing it out the window in less than 3 months (yay! you can buy another one then).
I'd suggest you:
a) Keep: Monitor, mouse, keyboard, RAM and processor, floppy drive,cd-rom and case. Throw the rest out.
B)Buy a good Motherboard (compaq's are integrated pieces of c**p) =$100-$200, a good hard drive=$100-$200, a good sound card (SB LIVE)=$95, a good video card (Voodoo 3 + (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )=$99 and you will be SET for another 3 years of bliss.
Alternative: Use the Compaq for those 3 months while you save the money, THEN dump the components not listed on A.
In any case, just dont use it, save yourself a lot of trouble.
..or sell it to someone who doesn't have "friends" like us for $2000 heheheh (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Cheers!
[This message has been edited by Wraith (edited 03-27-2000).]
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It was given to my boss not me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) but it's still free. Although it is a junker, i do hate complaque. Free is free though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
udie
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The best way to get rid of an NTFS partition is to run the NT setup, like you were going to reinstall NT. It will ask you some basic questions on how you want it installed and it will check the hardware. When you get to the install process that lets you manage partitions, delete all the partitions and then exit the setup. This is the cleanest way to delete NTFS. If you don't have the NT setup media, try FDAce's suggestion. I've never tried it that way myself but it's probably your best bet if you can't do an NT setup.
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ChknHawk
"Your a chicken, I'm a chicken hawk. And I'm gonna eat chicken!"
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errm...does the win98 boot disk have fdisk on it? You should find it in C:\Windows\command.
Still can't run FDISK?..is it a SCSI hard disk you got installed?
Ex.
[This message has been edited by Extreme (edited 03-27-2000).]
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How about getting a new hard drive and change the NT thingy out all together. As the puter was free, $139.00 or so ain't bad (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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There should be fdisk at least in 95/98 boot disks... Remember format c after using fdisk
I'm running win98 and win 2000 on my computer (AH don't like W2k yet... Mouse pointer disappeared in logon screen.. Maybe that stupid shadow of the pointer).
That W2k seems to be quite "nice" to install in same partition w/w98 and it's (on my puter) faster to boot than 98 (Lot's a "usefull" stuff in 98 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Staga
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Udie,
U also can use the administration tools in Win NT to reformat the disks, djust fire up the NT-OS and choose START/PROGRAM/ADMIN TOOLS/"Disk tools"
Then choose the drives you vant to convert to FAT and format em. . .
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
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I'm running win98 and win 2000 on my computer (AH don't like W2k yet... Mouse pointer disappeared in logon screen.. Maybe that stupid shadow of the pointer).
to quote Pyro in his last anouncement about 1.02:
The mouse problem in Win2K is being looked into as well as adding mouse support in general
Now.. if AH only had SMP support... I'd get a chance to try this bad-boy out on the Dual Xeon system (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AKDejaVu
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Oh man this realy sux. I'm here at my office this morning and this damned hardrive is not cooperating.
FDAce,
I tried your step by step proceedure, and it won't work. I can get into FDisk, but it will not let me delete the NTFS partition. It lets me make a dos partition of 680 megs (7.8 gig drive) and then it gives me NO access to c: I can get to the c prompt but when I type dir it won't read the drive. When I go back to fdisk it shows both the NTFS and the new partition. But it won't let me delet the NTFS partition.
I even managed to format the c drive but when I rebooted and went to c it wouldn't read it again. THIS SUX!!!!!!
hehe I told my boss the best option is to get a new HD and take no RIP this one out.....
Udie
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Udie if nothing else works look for a low level format program for the hard drive that you have and do that it will wipe the drive clean totaly.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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What Indian said. For instance if your HDD is a Quantum you could use thier real nice utility called Zero Fill that will wipe your harddrive clean by writing all zero's to it.
Maxtor I believe has a similar program.
-Westy
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Udie, it sounds as if you didn't really really format the C: drive. You formatted what the computer thought was the C: drive at the time.
This is very difficult to explain over the web. Send a phone number you can be reached at to david.staines@intel.com and I can try to talk you through it. LD on the company line is a wonderful thing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
AKDejaVu
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another $.02 for ya, try an format the master boot record think its format /mbr?
Or like Indian said, Low-Level Format the drive. good luck
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Udie
You should check in the BIOS setup program of Compaq the type of operation system installed on your PC. Some setups have this option. May be you should switch from NT to Win98 first.
If this doesn't help you still shouldn't get the new HDD but remove this one from Compaq and plug it to normal PC with Win98 installed. Then make all the nesessary things with partitions.
[This message has been edited by -aper- (edited 03-28-2000).]
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Westy is correct.. Maxtor has a proggie called "Max-Blast", which is their version of EZ-Drive, and some other utilities. You can download it at http://www.maxtor.com/maxblast/ (http://www.maxtor.com/maxblast/)
You could even temporarily install another bootable drive, and this proggie will copy the entire OS, sys, etc. files and anything else on the drive to the new drive, though some times this doesn't work totally correctly. It should work quite well for format and FAT32 partition chores though. Good luck. You will have to download the proggie and make a boot floppy, then boot from the floppy and follow the prompts. Good luck!
[This message has been edited by Skorpyon (edited 03-28-2000).]
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OK GUYS THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Turns out that the machine can only take NT. I put in the NT setup disk this morning and got that awful NTFS partition off and then slapped in my win98 boot disk.
If I told it to boot w/ CD support I could NOT access the C drive, but if I told it NO CD support I could do what ever I wanted to with the C drive. I called our client and said "HELP" he laughed and said "that's an NT only workstation."
DOH! Now I gotta learn all that network stuff on NT just to get this cpu on MY network at work. hehehe I knew it wouldn't be easy...........
Thanks for the help guys, I kept telling my boss this isn't just a game. Now he believes me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
udie
[This message has been edited by Udie (edited 03-28-2000).]
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Udie,
Have you gone into the BIOS and made everything in there look "normal"?
Also, you could try not using a win98 rescue or startup disk, but instead initially just make a bootable floppy (format it under win98 and have it copy system files) and put format and fdisk utilities on it.
FDISK /MBR will clear out the master boot record on the hard drive, which can clear up some boot and HD recognition problems as well.
You can also check some hard drive manufacturer's sites for their low-level formatting utilities. Western Digital has some that should be able to completely reset the hard drive to essentially factory blank condition.
IMHO there's no such thing as an "nt only workstation"... There just HAS to be a way to hack that sucker if it's based on standard PC components (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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eagl is correct. There is no such thing as an NT only computer. He is also right about making a fresh boot disk. Just FDISK and FORMAT /S (/S copies the system files) At this point the computer should boot to a C:\ prompt. Now your only problem is getting CD-Rom access. It would take me too long to write out how to add DOS CD-Rom drivers. I hope you have a boot disk with CD-Rom support. If you do, your home free. Good luck!
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ChknHawk
"Your a chicken, I'm a chicken hawk. And I'm gonna eat chicken!"
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While we got all the 'puter experts here, Any of you guys know much about Novell? In our small business (4 workstations) our novell server is on the fritz as always. Always comes up with critical errors overnight, lockups during the day, been going on for too long.
We've had our novell guy out many times. He's loaded the newest novell client on all the machines, reloaded the software on the server, yada yada yada.
Our novell guy said it could possibly be a flaky CPU, or a motherboard prob.
Today I finally threw in the towel and am having a new server box built. We'll load all the new server software on a fresh hard drive with all new (different) hardware. What do you guys think of this? It is purely a last resort kinda thing.
Thoughts?
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hblair,
As a CNE, I know a thing or two about Novell. Your network guy is doing the right thing, loading the latest client on the workstations and service packs on the server. The hard part is knowing whether it's software or hardware thats abending your server. Without knowing what NLMs you have loaded and monitoring them over time, I wouldn't be able to even hazard a guess as to whether it's software related.
At this point, a new server sounds like a good way to go. If it works, you will know it was the hardware.
Stick with Novell. It's the best network operating system out there IMHO. Good luck.
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Udie,
You need to stop using the Win98 boot disk. Find a computer that has a dos prompt available and make a new boot disk that is totally clean. Do this by typing the command:
format a: /s
Then, on the same computer you format the floppy boot disk on, do a search for "fdisk.*" and "format.*". In Win98 they are usually located in the \windows\command directory. Copy these two files to the floppy.
Once you have this disk, try going after the NTFS partition again. It almost seems as if the Win98 setup portion on that floppy is giving you problems.
AKDejaVu
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"that's an NT only workstation."
LOL! That's the most ignorant thing I've heard in a long, long time.
Udie, there is a way to get rid of this partition. I'm still researching what is the best way to accomplish it.
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"
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--- AKDejaVu: ---
You'll want to do that anyway since NTFS only allows 4 Gig partitions
--- end ---
Now that is completely untrue of course. You might get this impression from doing a clean NT install, and noticing that you can only create 4GB paritions with the installation program. But the limitation is not caused by NTFS but FAT16! The silly installation program converts the volume( s ) first to FAT16 and then to NTFS - reason for this I don't know - thus your parition size is limited by FAT16's limitations.
With NTFS you can create bigger partitions than 4GB from within NT, concatenate multiple physical drives into single logical drive and so on...
//fats
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Don't think so fats. If you use a program such as partition magic you can create larger drives. Fat16 has a 2 gig limit. I've never been able to use NT to create anything larger than a 4 Gig NTFS drive. Win2000 blows past this though.
AKDejaVu
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Udie as the other stated there is NOT AN SUCH THING AS AN NT ONLY WS!
If you want to get rid of the NTFS partition you could use an clean win95/98 boot disk and then use an program called Partition Magic, its truly an great program.
Regards.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
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--- AKDejaVu: ---
Fat16 has a 2 gig limit.
--- end ---
FAT16 has 4GB limit under NT. FAT16 has 2GB limit under DOS/Win95 and Win98. FAT16 uses 16-bit fields to store file sizes and cluster size of 64KB under NT thus the 4GB. NTFS uses 64-bit fields and can do 16 exabytes ( 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 bytes ), how ever there are other limitations that will cut in _way_ before this.
SP4 includes an updated 'Atapi.sys' that works properly with disks larger than 8GB. I would be cautious when using Partition Magic, if it's not newer than 3.03 it will not understand the INT 13 extensions and as a result may completely screw up your 8GB or bigger drive.
Also it is possible to create larger than 4GB partition during install time if you perform an unattended installation using the ExtendOEMPartition flag like so:
[Unattended]
FileSystem = convertNTFS
ExtendOemPartition = 1, NoWait
You must have SP1 or greater for this to work. If you are unable to create larger than 4GB drivers, it doesn't meen that NTFS doesn't do it.
//fats
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LOL Fats!
Let me put it this way...
When I've installed NT 4.0, I've inserted the CD, made the boot disks and gone from there. Even with a clean HD, it wouldn't make over a 4 Gig NTFS partition.
After I installed NT 4.0 (and SPx), if I went into HD management, it still would not create larger than a 4 Gig NTFS drive.
That is where I got my information. It seems that yours comes from a higher source though, so I bow to your NT knowledge.
AKDejaVu
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NT Workstation has a 2.0GB partition limit when first installing, and NT Server has a 4GB limitation. Once NT is installed and the file system has been converted to NTFS, then using Disk Administrator, you may create partitions larger than 4GB's. These will mostly consist of one large extended partition that is divided up into one or more logical drives.
A good idea when using NT is to create a 2GB partition where your NT installation will be, then to use the rest of the drive for your applications and data. By isolating NT from your apps, it makes it easier to recover your data if NT blows up.
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"
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banana:
I belive you can install workstation and server onto bigger partition than 4GB. And both can create bigger partitions than 4GB during installation, it just has to be an unattended installation.
For example my NT workstation is installed on a 8GB partition. Which is not possible if you have an 'older' BIOS though.
Partitions are located by their start and end, which are stored like so: Head, Cylinder and Sector values for both the start and the end. The Head is 8 bits. The Cylinder is 10 bits. The Sector is 6 bits. The number of sectors is 256 * 1024 * 63. Standard sectors are 512 bytes, so there's a 7.87GB limit with older BIOS.
//fats
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hehehe Thanks for the input.....I am trying to pass the NT 4.0 Server Exam now. I am thinking-at least in the exam, 2 GB is max.
WIN98 and NT are not compatable...period.
A dual boot system with DOS, WIN3.X and WIN95 is possible, but you have to make sure you partition the HD with both FAT and NTFS.
There are other issues including permissions,and shares, concerning files and folders using NT. Using WIN95 might be an option, as NT recognizes it. Just saying....
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/ (http://www.cutthroats.com/)
(http://www.cutthroats.com/art/buttons/on_patch8Xs.gif)
[This message has been edited by K-KEN (edited 03-31-2000).]
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Lol... such a good OS ... what a joke
you go boyz
LOL
Macboy
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Originally posted by Macboy:
Lol... such a good OS ... what a joke
you go boyz
LOL
Macboy
So "which" OS are ewe referring to sir? Surely, not a "MAC" hehehe. Although NT does interoperate with MAC, UNIX, Novell....etc, but NT is designed for businesses with a level of security in mind, and is very complex. It allows many of the things most have referred to, for example, a domain can consist of 15,000 users/workstations.....but NT can have unlimited users, if needed. It can support up to 32 processors, with a special application, 4 is normal. How would ya like to fly with 4 processers hummin.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
NT is not set up for gaming, it is a business application.
Someone earlier stated, that starting the install allows you to delete NT...that is correct. All you do is delete the partition. It also will allow you to create partitions, and format them as fat, or NTFS.
They can also be unformatted. Thus, allowing options later, using DISK Manager. Creating volume sets, logical drives etc.
Bottom line, so far NO OS is perfect. But that doesnt mean that they will be, cause "imperfect" beings create them! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/ (http://www.cutthroats.com/)
(http://www.cutthroats.com/art/buttons/on_patch8Xs.gif)
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All you need is DELPART to get rid of NTFS partitions. Email me if you want it, but I'm sure you can find it on the web.