Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Jekyll on December 25, 2000, 08:53:00 PM
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I suppose its an inevitable characteristic of humanity that we don't handle conflict at all well.
Equally inevitable seems to be the desire to 'label' our opponents in order to belittle their beliefs and attitudes.
We've all seen it: during wars we never fight against Germans, Japanese, Vietnamese or Iraqis - we fight 'Krauts', 'Nips', 'Gooks' and 'Ragheads'.
And the leaders of those countries that oppose us are never, ever, sane rational individuals. Hitler was, after all, a madman. Saddam went one better; not only was he mad but he was also a beast - the "Beast of Baghdad".
You see, by labelling our opponents it becomes much easier to 'de-humanize' them: they become more 'thing' than 'person'. And since these 'things' are also 'insane', we find no trouble fighting them to the death - we never have to trouble ourselves to wonder just why they think the way they do.
Of course, we don't need a war to see the process in action. A few years ago, here in Australia, a young man went on a shooting spree at Port Arthur. A lot of innocent people died at his hands, and he was immediately dubbed "The madman of Port Arthur" in all the papers. He had to be 'mad' of course, for if he wasn't, then he was just like us.
And if he was just like us, then couldn't WE do the same kind of thing?
You don't even need to fire a gun to draw a label - 'feminist', 'racist', 'DemocRAT' are all labels we foist on those whose ideas we may not agree with.
Labelling works.
The same principle applies on boards like this one - perhaps it works even better since we all have the anonymity of the Internet to hide behind.
And so people express opinions, but instead of reasoned debate - the labels fly.
If you like flying Allied aircraft why even consider the opinion of a 'Luftwhiner' or 'Luftwabble'? How could a 'whiner' hold any viewpoint worthy of consideration?
Now I'm as guilty as anyone here of thinking in 'labels' from time to time, though I'm making a conscious effort to avoid it.
But there are some on this board who seem to make a career of throwing labels at anyone who in some small way seems to threaten their idea of enjoyment. Had these people lived in Germany in 1939, Goebbels would have been in real fear of holding on to his job.
The latest epithet seems to be the 'Phony Realists'. Apparently I am one of their number. In truth, I should be thankful that the guy who coined this phrase at least did not revert to his earlier version on another board - 'Realism Nazi' (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
But when you read the posts on these boards, and see those who are labelled 'whiners', 'Nikdweebs' etc, try to at least look behind the labels for just a minute. And remember that those doing the labelling may well be motivated to do so by a complete inability to formulate a rational, coherent opposing viewpoint.
P.S. "Death to NikDweebs" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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=357th Pony Express=
Aces High Training Corps
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Sad but true. I've watched honest attempts to post a point of concern turn into "whiner warz". Forgive me if I start to ramble, but I've got a few things on my mind right now.
Some insist on turning this sim into a mirror image of what aerial combat in WW2 was. Others just want a Quake-type sim, where they can get kills fast. I'm in the middle on that; some realism is always a good thing, but you can't make it too complex. For special events I see a lot of good ideas regarding icons, damage, and player responsibility. Things like cutting icons down to basics, full engine management, manual everything, and reduced radar would be great for an event. But how would a new guy feel suddenly confronted by all this in the main? Aces High has a learning curve that looks alot like the climb rate of a Yak. This is right now. 1.05 will add some new toys and a bit more complexity to everything.
Then again, there are some things we could actually benefit from. Contrails at or above 20k would be a nice touch, smoke from big guns firing, a little bomb dispersion; those would be fun additions. At least to me. As I told a friend not too long ago "Typing is highly impersonal". Sitting here reading these messages from guys you fight both with and against is like reading a letter. Emotion, inflection, and personan mannerisims are missing. This means a joke to you could get highly insulting to someone else. Using RW negates part of this, since you can actually hear the other guy's voice. But it's still impersonal.
Kinda sad when an honest concern or comment is taken as a whine. Hispanos are seen as too powerful by a person, so he posts a concern here. Before you know it 50 people jump on him hollering "Keep yer damn whining to yerself!". Someone else thinks the N1K2 is a tad off in performance, and he gets jumped by another "Anti-whiner" gang. I've never called anyone here a whiner, nor have I decided to dive in on a conversation with irrelevant banter. This is probably the reason I don't have 3,000 posts (honest comment, not ridiculing anyone). If I have something to add, or an opinion on something, I'll throw it in. If not I'll move on to the next thread.
Some whine, others skim threads to find a point they can attack. One person posts a raving comment and the whole mess gets started again. Not exactly the right way to get your point across.
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/custom1.jpg)
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I happen to think Laz has a perfectly valid point. If he wants to stick a "label" on his point to summarize it, fine with me. To equate that to nips, krauts, ragheads and other hurtful comments....geesh, give me a friggin' break.
A tip...don't provide behavioral advice to the community and then proceed to rant in the same message. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
bowser
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Jekyll,
For the most part I agree with the premise you are making about labeling. However, the word "whiner" has a definition and is a legitimate adjective to use in describing some behavior.
Example:
When a pilot dies and feels he must spout of on Channel 1 and use some feeble excuse for his demise because he was bested...that might be someone that spoke before he thought. When he does it every time he is killed..... THAT MIGHT BE A WHINER!
Label or Adjective??
At some point after observing and testing the waters, the ADJECTIVE may fit!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
My Opinion..
Thunder
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I've used the term "whiner" in relation to several people.
I've never used it on their first, second or even third repetitive rant about the same subject.
There is ALWAYS a need for people to point out a perceived problem. There is also a right, gentlemanly way to do it.
HTC reads these boards; we're fortunate that they DO take a keen interest in our concerns.
Some days it must be depressing to read the posts, after you were up till midnight trying to please these people with new coding.
I know when I used to write I sort of detested editors that butchered a sentence I had rewritten 10 times to get the flow and flavor of wording just right. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
When a person feels there is a problem, here's what I'd suggest:
1. Do a little BBS research. What appears to be a "devastating problem in need of an immediate solution yesterday" may be a "dead horse" that has been flogged to the bone already. HTC might have even posted their opinion and a timeline for action if necessary.
2. If the issue is not a "dead horse", make your case in a polite, common-sense manner. Accusatory, inflammatory posts generally will draw a like response from opponents.
3. You should be able to document the problem, explain why you think it is a problem (wrong modeling, wrong historical whatever), provide some proof (data) for your position and suggest an area to research for a possible solution.
4. You should also be able to accept the fact that some people may not agree with you, particularly if you cannot provide data or a link to support your hypothesis.
5. You should be willing to give it a rest. Continually harping on a single subject doesn't strengthen your case. It may make you look like a two year old that isn't getting his way. One well written, well documented post is probably much more effective than 30 continuous, unsupported flamefests.
6. Remember that HTC is a 6 person company that is striving mightily to please perhaps hundreds or thousands of folks that have their own ideas about "AH perfection". They have their own priorities as well.
7. Never forget that YOU may be totally wrong. Hey, it happens. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Now, I don't think I've ever called a person that generally followed those precepts a whiner. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'd call them a "contributor". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Well said IMO Jekyll
As a member of the Arabian Knights we change countries every month. This is a GOOD thing!! That guy who flies for the other team, and annoys you to no end.. fly with him for a month you will likely be very surprised at the person you meet. I've flown beside most of the people in the MA at one point or another, as an opponent i've found some angry whiney ppl, who once I've flown beside them turn out to be good, decent, people.
There is absolutely no reason for country loyalty in the MA. Maybe you think of yourself as a knight in shining armor, or a solid as a rock rook, i dunno. Just like life there are lots of people to meet, places to go, things to see, why narrow your focus so?
AKskurj
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but skurj!!!
Arabian Bishops just doesnt sound right!
stay knit, we are much more fun hehe
hazed 3./JG2
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I happen to think Laz has a perfectly valid point.
Good for you bowser. AH needs as many differing viewpoints as possible. I'm talking more about tolerance to those divergent viewpoints though.
<S> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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A guy that goes on a shooting spree against innocent unarmed people IS a madman. going up against armed citzens makes him a madman AND an idiot.
Those things in the water with the fins and gills ARE fish.
"realism nazi" has a nice ring i will admit (I like "the dreary side" myself) but I don't think I was the one who came up with it. That would make you a liar I suppose.... A label that you used on me in an earlier thread. I don't mind but when I asked you to show me where it was that I was a "liar" you wouldn't, or couldn't do it.
"Phony realism" is quite descriptive of someone who wants to pick and choose the "realism" he wants to fit his particular style.
"luftwhiner" is droll (and descriptive)... I can't take credit for that one either tho.
jekyl... I am pleased that you still disslike me so much after all these years. Aman is judged by his enemeys as much as by his friends.
lazs
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You are all Luftwhining altmonkey runstang fighter puke quaker Ostirutabagas!!!
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If it looks like a whiner...sounds like a whiner and acts like a whiner....well, you get my point.
Ice