Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SunTracker on January 16, 2004, 07:06:04 PM
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Just found out its post-war. I am not at all bothered by it anymore. I thought it was taken during the actual ground combat phase of the war.
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Phew... I know Ill be sleeping at night again.
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Here's what ABC reported on this. I'm not sure if this has been posted on this BBS yet. Also just providing the info, I dont hold an opinion either way
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/apache_video_040109-1.html (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/apache_video_040109-1.html)
Jan. 9 — Graphic video footage from the gun camera of a U.S. Apache helicopter provides a window into the rules of engagement that often determine life and death in Iraq
The video, obtained by ABCNEWS, shows grainy images of three Iraqis on the ground handling a long cylindrical object that the helicopter pilots believe is a weapon.
The pilots, from the Army's 4th Infantry Division, ask their commanders for permission to engage, then take the three men out one by one, using the Apache's devastating 30 mm cannons.
Nighttime Scene
The video opens with the helicopter tracking a man in a pickup truck north of Baghdad on Dec. 1, one day after the 4th Infantry Division engaged in the bloodiest battles with Iraqi insurgents since the end of major combat.
The pilots watch as the man pulls over and gets out to talk to another man waiting by a larger truck.
"Uh, big truck over here," one of the pilots is heard saying. "He's having a little powwow."
The pickup driver looks around, then reaches into his vehicle, takes out a tube-shaped object that appears to be about 4 or 5 feet long, and runs away from the road into a field. He drops the object in the field and heads back to the trucks.
"I got a guy running throwing a weapon," one of the pilots says. Retired Gen. Jack Keane, an ABCNEWS consultant who viewed the tape, said the object looked like a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, "or something larger than a rifle."
The pilots check in with their operational commander, who is monitoring the situation. When they tell him they are sure the man was carrying a weapon, he tells them: "Engage. Smoke him."
The pilots wait as a tractor arrives on the scene, near the spot where the pickup driver dropped the object. One of the Iraqis approaches the tractor driver.
Then, within minutes, the Apache pilots open fire with the heavy 30 mm cannon, killing first the Iraqi in the field, then the tractor driver. The pilots then fire at the large truck and wait to see if they hit the last of three men.
When he rolls out from under the truck, one of the pilots says, "He's wounded."
The other pilot says, "Hit him," and the Apache opens fire again, killing the man.
The Apache fires nearly 100 30 mm cannon rounds in all.
Engagement Called Justified
A senior Army official who viewed the tape said the pilots had the legal right to kill the men because they were carrying a weapon. He said there were no ground troops in the area and if the Apache pilots had let the three Iraqis go, the men might have gone on to kill American troops.
Keane agreed. "Those weapons were obviously not being pointed at them in particular, but they [the three Iraqis] are using those weapons in their minds for lethal means and they [the Apache pilots] have a right to interfere with that," he said.
Anthony Cordesman, an ABCNEWS defense consultant who also viewed the tape, said the Apache pilots would have had a much clearer picture of the scene than what was recorded on the videotape. He also said they would have had intelligence about the identity of the men in the vehicles. "They're not getting a sort of blurred picture. They have a combination of intelligence and much better imagery than we can see."
As to whether the Apache pilots could have called in ground troops to apprehend the men, Cordesman said: "In this kind of war, wherever you find organized resistance among the insurgents, you have to act immediately. If you wait to send in ground troops almost invariably your enemy is going to be gone."
Army officials acknowledged that the 30 mm cannons used by the Apache gunners were far bigger than what was needed to kill the men, but said it is the smallest weapon the Apaches have.
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What difference would it make if that mission was post war or during the initial strike?
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During the war, you had your conscripts and people forced to fight for Saddam.
Post war you have your fanatical muslims who blow up women, children, and Americans.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
During the war, you had your conscripts and people forced to fight for Saddam.
Post war you have your fanatical muslims who blow up women, children, and Americans.
Ah, thank you for explaining. I understand better now.
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Go to the end of this thread:
Thx Skuzzy (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105611)
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Originally posted by Duedel
Go to the end of this thread:
Thx Skuzzy (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105611)
???? :confused:
He said not to post the video, but he didn't say we can't talk about it.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
???? :confused:
He said not to post the video, but he didn't say we can't talk about it.
feeling a little insurgent are we?
:eek:
:mad:
;)
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:confused:
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Dont mind the children, Funked.
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So, Saurdakkar, were you like, sad, when the dinos died?
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dueldel: Get a Life man! jeesh ever hear of a thing called free speech? Maybe its just an American thing huh?:cool:
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Originally posted by WilldCrd
dueldel: Get a Life man! jeesh ever hear of a thing called free speech? Maybe its just an American thing huh?:cool:
NP u can do what u want, see want u want, read what u want etc. but this BBS isnt free speech, its moderated! But if this BBS would be free speech who if not u (as an advocate of it) would better understand that I could post what I want - at least its free speech.
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Originally posted by WilldCrd
dueldel: Get a Life man! jeesh ever hear of a thing called free speech? Maybe its just an American thing huh?:cool:
So he shouldn't use is free speech to protest ?
There is a flaw somewhere :D
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duedal is mad cause his side lost..... again.
lazs
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Originally posted by straffo
So he shouldn't use is free speech to protest ?
There is a flaw somewhere :D
Hes welcome to do exactly that.
But in the spirit of democracy - he is on his side and the rest of us are on our side.
We voted and he needs to STFU. :aok
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Originally posted by lazs2
duedal is mad cause his side lost..... again.
lazs
what side?
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
We voted and he needs to STFU. :aok
Really? How will U accomblish this? Are u a moderator? I guess not or did u set urself on probation ;)
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Look I don't see the need to be ganging up on Duedel.
He has his opinion and you have your's.
And futher more Skuzzy has made His feeling clear on the matter.
So why Is there any disscussion on It?
They where bad guys who got killed in war so be It.
But there really Is no need to brag about It.
In my opinion that makes us no better than them.
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Originally posted by Duedel
Really? How will U accomblish this? Are u a moderator? I guess not or did u set urself on probation ;)
I told you man, we voted.
Heed our wishes or be branded a facist pig!
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Originally posted by mrblack
And futher more Skuzzy has made His feeling clear on the matter.
So why Is there any disscussion on It?
Skuzzy did not forbid discussion of the film, he just forbade links to the film itself.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
I told you man, we voted.
Heed our wishes or be branded a facist pig!
Oh no please dont brand me a fascist pig. Please dont Saur, u would heart my inner feelings cause what u say on this board is so very important for me...
MrBlack