Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Saurdaukar on January 17, 2004, 06:26:36 PM
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Been getting into wine lately - trying to learn as much as I can and broaden my experience some. Im primarily trying out alot of the southern Oz reds under influence from a buddy of mine.
Problem is, Im still a rookie and Im not even sure whats 'good' and whats 'bad' yet.
Any of you out there wine experts? Any bottle recommendations for a newbie or resources where I can learn more?
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move to france.
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Cant stand the smell.
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2 litres of wine for $5.99= HORRIBLE WINE
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Winer.
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MadDog in any flavor is a real treat. Pick up a bottle at your local 7-11!
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Damn you guys suck. Here I am attempting to spend my hard earned money on a chemically induced stupor with a little bit of class and ya'll cant help me out?
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buy only Australian..
Tronsky
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Prefer my Wine in a properly fitting Brown Bag and consumed under a Bridge.
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Yellow or Red Label Wolf Blas is an excellent place to start for South Auzzie wines. Bin series are nice too.
Also, try to find wine tasting events. Cost around $15-20 per person but it offers a wide range of types of wines usually based on a country. Most times the host will bring in a rep for a speach on the types.
But on a lighter note, you'll find a huge asortment of whines in the Main Arena postings. :D
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Fetzer is a brand I look for. I prefer a white wine and they make several good ones. If you like a sweet wine try the geurstiminer (sp??) and also give the reisling a try.
I much prefer the reisling to a chardoney. As a side note you might find some mead and try that. It is usually a light and sweet wine.
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Yellow or Red Label Wolf Blas is an excellent place to start for South Auzzie wines. Bin series are nice too.
Also, try to find wine tasting events. Cost around $15-20 per person but it offers a wide range of types of wines usually based on a country. Most times the host will bring in a rep for a speach on the types.
But on a lighter note, you'll find a huge asortment of whines in the Main Arena postings. :D
I quite like the Wolf Blass yellow...a real nice BYO wine.
Lindemans Shiraz Cabernet is excellent (my fav)..so are the Mathew Lang reds.
My wife is very fond of Brown Brother's Crouchen and Reisling.
I would recommend also the Houghten whites.
Tronsky
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A) drink lots of wine. Remember that to get the health benefits of red wine you must consume at least five glasses a day. That's easy to remember: 1 bottle for each adult in the house, and a half-bottle (aka a "split") for each child.
B) Start with cheap wine. You want australian stuff? As good a place as any to start, I suppose. Spend two weeks drinking nothing but $5 shiraz. Then work your way up in quality. Only by familiarizing yourself with the most base can one recognize excellence. This logic has worked for countless leaders of religious cults; it should work for drinking wine as well.
C) A pretentious wine shop has tons and tons of bottles of wine of all types, and usually some wine clerk who'll steer you towards whatever crap she or he likes. Generally it's a he, and generally he likes crappy wine. In fact, of all those bottles in his shop only a few of them are actually worth the price. Most of the others are there so he can brag to his buddies on the internet chat rooms that he has the "largest variety of *****ty Rhone ripoffs in the lower midwest". A good wine shop has much fewer different types, but something good at every price and style you want. And the guy who runs the place drinks each of the wines he sells, and he drinks them regularly, preferably during business hours.
D) When the clerk hands you a $20 bottle of wine, examine the label carefully until you find the part that says "Alcohol 12 percent by volume." Look at that print, scratch your head, then turn to the clerk and say: "hmmm.. so that comes out to a buck sixty-seven per percent, eh?"
E) Don't buy the hype that says "Free wine tastings aren't worth it -- go to one of those $10/$15/head private tastings that wine shops offer". Are you crazy? What part of FREE don't you understand? And $10/$15 is only the beginning of the cost. In addition, you have to listen to some pompous windbag making up crap about velvety mouthfeels, tannin superstructures and a hint of outhouse on the troisieme gout. I mean, you can't just take your date, your wine, and go out and talk about something interesting.
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I live next to the Wine Country of California and drink alot of good wines, but there's some pretty good Aussie wines on the market right now for a pretty cheap price that are worth trying.
Mazz, it's all personal preferences- find what tastes good to you and drink it. Right now I'm into Beaulvau (sp) Vineyards Coastal Cabernet, bout twelve bucks a bottle for Coastal Monterrey County wine that's pretty tasty- had it last night with my pound cut of Black Angus prime rib (rare of course) and it was quite tasty.
Boogle is good, but avoid the more expensive varitials in favor of 8-15 dollar a bottle wines, basically they aren't worth the extra money til you've drunk your share of less expensive wines.
When you're ready I'll introduce you to good Ports served with bleu cheese, grapes and walnut halves along with a fine cigar.
Living well is the best revenge.
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Mazz,
I've been in the fine food business for about 25 years and have learned quite a bit about wine as a result. The most important thing to know about wine is that "good wine" is wine that you enjoy drinking. The more you experiment the more you'll learn about what you like. Read the labels and pay attention to the qualities that you like or dislike about whatever it is you are tasting. Learn which varietals(grape types) that you tend to like and try different wines from different countries or regions and compare and contrast them. Worrying about which ones are good or bad is mostly just buying into snobbery and attitude. Also, in general with wine, you get what you pay for but that doesn't mean that you'll enjoy an expensive wine more than a cheaper one. Enjoy the learning process and dont be intimidated by people who know more than you, it's all about taste and enjoyment.
kbman
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2 buck Chuck... :aok
Thorns
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myself I prefer Boons farm. I think its a good one cause usually it costs over $2. The cool part is it comes in alot of different flavors. Cherry is my favorite.
When I feel like splurging There's this mexican wine that I buy. Its a little bit more expensive but it comes in a box instead of a bottle!
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not into wines my self,,but i had to buy some a few times for dinners,,,and from what my dad has told me,,its best to figure out what you like best,,lots of your local wine makers make very tasty wines,,are locals here make very good wine,,for a dinner or late night wine i like a late harvest resling<~~doesnt matter the brand,,and stay away from mad dog!! that stuff will make ya sick,,lol but i guess any alcohall will do that,,but not as bad!! ewwwwww,,lol
but i hear 2 buck chuck is very good for cheap wine,lol<~~but give me a bottle of glenfiddich scotch whisky anyday:)
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Dinger, that's as good an explaination of wine as I've heard. I sold wine and spirits for 10 years in Texas. The majority of people that came in had NO idea what they wanted...they just wanted to drink wine.
If you are not accustomed to drinking Red Wine, chances are you will not like it. Most of them are heavy and bitter (like Cabernet Sauvignon or Shiraz), they DO NOT taste like grape juice. They more closely resemble the flavor of the grape skin than the grape meat. Reds are normally consumed with strong flavored foods like red meat, cheese or nuts. A lighter flavored Red to start with would be a Bordeaux or an Italian (Try Ruinite, inexpensive and tasty). My personal favorite red is BV's Rutherford Estate Cabernet Sauvignon, excellent with a medium rare Rib Eye.
If you want something a bit easier to drink and work your way into Reds, try Blush Wines. These are pinkish red in color and usually quite a bit sweeter than a red. A White Zinfandel is a good beginner wine with a slightly fruity palate.
White wines are normally a good place to break into wine... but not ALL whites are sweet. Chardonnay flavor can range from buttery to oaky to grassy (Gallo of Sonoma makes a good $12-$15 Chard with a buttery finish).
Need something even fruitier? Go with a German white. Many of these come close to soda pop sweet. Check the residual sugar content, the higher the sugar the lower the alcohol content. Reisling is usually the choice beginners. Shmidt Sonne and Johann Eggbert make nice ones for around $5 - $7.
Don't let some snobby wine guy (is there anything but?) push you into buying an expensive wine. Start slow with cheaper wines and work your way into wines. There are 1000's out there to work your way thru and find what you enjoy. The best wine to drink is the wine you enjoy drinking.
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Can't beat wine in a box !! :aok
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One of the best ways to get into wine is to put in this perspective; the best wines are the ones enjoyed with food and friends.
I have been into wine for about 20 yrs and to me it all comes back to food. I got interested in wine because I like to cook. Get together with some of your friends and start a wine/food group. Watch the food section of your local paper, there are usually food/wine events around town. Restraunts that have wine dinners are usually good deals. Good food and you will get to taste several different types of wine paired with food.
Good producers from Australiathat have a good QPR (quality price ration) in the 10$ range from the 2002 vintage are Rosemont , Thorn-Clarke, Buckleys, and Yaluma. Middle priced producers ($20-25)that I like are d'Arenberg, Leeuwin Estate, and Penly.
If you like white wine some of the best Sauvignon Blancs out there right now are produced in New Zeland. Kim Crawford, St. Clair, Dashwood and Villa Maria are good producers to look for. Sauvignon Blanc is a very food friendly wine, it goes with a lot of different styles of food.
Hope this helps out.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Been getting into wine lately - trying to learn as much as I can and broaden my experience some. Im primarily trying out alot of the southern Oz reds under influence from a buddy of mine.
Problem is, Im still a rookie and Im not even sure whats 'good' and whats 'bad' yet.
Any of you out there wine experts? Any bottle recommendations for a newbie or resources where I can learn more?
Best advice I ever heard about wine: what's good and what's bad is simply what you like and what you don't like. Your tastes may change over time but don't let anyone tell you what to like. You'll figure it out. If possible, taste before you buy, if you can't, try less expensive varietals just to get a feel for the qualities you like. Then move on to "better" ones and blends.
I really liked Shiraz/Syrah when I started out, but over time I found that red blends were more to my liking. I thought I would like sweet wines more, but found out that I like them bone dry.
Whatever you do, don't spend that 50-100 bucks for a "cult" wine. They are not worth it. (IMO)
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Thanks for the advice guys.
Ive found myself particular to the reds thus far - not too big on the whites Ive tried up to this point. Im also a big red meat guy so I suppose my taste in meat has something to do with it.
Some of your suggestions Ive already tried - others Ill put on my list.
Right now, for example, Im finishing up a 2002 Rosemount Shiraz - very, very good as far as I can tell. Seems to get better with each glass as the other tastes are washed away.
Ill probably pick up a few more bottles and put them away for 9-10 months.
Last week I was drinking 2002 Jacobs Creek Shiraz and Merlot. Very good... but seemed to be missing something - not quite as smooth as the Rosemount but Im not experienced enough to know why.
This is the second bunch that has recommended "2 buck chuck."
kbman, do you own/work at a restaurant in the area?
Keep em coming.
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Saurdaukar, you need to talk to WineMan.
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Saur, majic nailed it - it's simply a matter of taste. Myself, I prefer French wines as there is far greater variability.
I strongly suggest you buy a book or two, if only to see what's out there.
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IMHO for the "i'm not going to spend to much on a chardonney" Kendal Jackson usually does the trick.
For chianti, I've taken a liking to some of the wines coming out of argentina "San somethingorather"
Unless it's a special occasion I will not spend more than 10$
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Mazz,
I've worked in many restaurants in Philly over the years as a pastry chef and chef and I had my own business producing and supplying upscale desserts to many restaurants in the area for 16 years. Right now I'm working for a caterer in town as a chef.
I would recommend Moore Bros. in Pennsauken, NJ as an excellent source for wine purchases. They really know their s**t and specialize in offbeat and unusual wines that don't cost a fortune. I worked with David years ago and his brother Greg was sommelier at Le Bec Fin for many years. Tell them that you're interested in learning about different wines and talk to them about what you like and ask them to put together a case of various wines that they think you might enjoy. They won't give you attitude and I guarrantee they'll give you some interesting and diverse choices. Just tell them how much you want to spend and let them do the rest. Dmitry's at 3rd and Catherine and Porcini at 20th and Sansom are two of my favorite "bring your own" restaurants in town, both small, intimate places with excellent food but neither takes reservations and they can be tough to get a table in but well worth the wait. Wine is always best enjoyed with food and good company so find yourself a woman and go for it. Bon appetit!
kbman
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Originally posted by ygsmilo
One of the best ways to get into wine is to put in this perspective; the best wines are the ones enjoyed with food and friends.
I have been into wine for about 20 yrs and to me it all comes back to food. I got interested in wine because I like to cook. Get together with some of your friends and start a wine/food group. Watch the food section of your local paper, there are usually food/wine events around town. Restraunts that have wine dinners are usually good deals. Good food and you will get to taste several different types of wine paired with food.
Good producers from Australiathat have a good QPR (quality price ration) in the 10$ range from the 2002 vintage are Rosemont , Thorn-Clarke, Buckleys, and Yaluma. Middle priced producers ($20-25)that I like are d'Arenberg, Leeuwin Estate, and Penly.
If you like white wine some of the best Sauvignon Blancs out there right now are produced in New Zeland. Kim Crawford, St. Clair, Dashwood and Villa Maria are good producers to look for. Sauvignon Blanc is a very food friendly wine, it goes with a lot of different styles of food.
Hope this helps out.
sound like we have a winner here :)
spot on IMO.
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So what wine would you (anyone) reccomend to someone who has never tasted a wine that tasted good to him? I am really into rum and diet coke at a ratio of 50% of each to 70% rum to 30% diet coke. (not trying to keep the wieght down with diet coke, just prefer the flavor).
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Think I'll stick with beer...:D
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I worked for a wine and spirits distributor for about 4 years and the best advice I see on here is that a good wine is one that you enjoy. It sounds like you are already well on your way. I would only suggest that if you want to delve further into the wine drinking experience start to research the different varietals and regions. This will give you the ability to recognize a wines' character (somewhat) by what you see on the label. Nothing can take the place of experimentation though. Have fun with it.
As for Aust. reds, I have always liked Penfolds. The bin 407 and 707 can be pricey, but there are several different varietal bins they offer that are all very good quality and won't hurt your pocket so much.
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Dunno if I would.
In mainstream US culture, wine has class associations: the bourgeois drink wine; the working class drinks beer.
I don't particularly like this association, because it generally implies:
A) if you drink wine, people see you as a pretentious bourgeois snob.
B) Many wine stores are run by and cater to pretentious bourgeois snobs. ( note that it is possible to be a bourgeois snob without being pretentious. Pretention is simply not having the goods to back it up).
C) A major chunk of the wine market caters to the pretentious bourgeois (=yuppy) image.
What does C mean?
Well, a lot of Americans like the idea of wine. That is, that wine is the stuff that bourgeois folks drink; it's a status symbol. But there's just one problem: they don't like the taste.
So you get things like supersweet blush wines and chardonnays that are so heavily oaked (or more likely injected with oak chips) you can't taste the grape juice beneath all the sweetness. I mean, if you like these things, great; but if what you're looking for in a wine is a Rum and Coke, by all means, drink a rum and coke instead.
The other effect is that wine in the US has its own set of fashion trends, to the degree that grape producers will dig up old vines and replace them with something more "Saleable". Why does Sauvignon Blanc cost less than chardonnay? Is it just the oaking that makes the difference? it's also the demand.
Bottom Line: if you don't like the taste of it; don't drink it. nobody likes a pretentious wine snob, just as nobody likes a M.D. with a PPL, tons of flight time and no clue how to fly.
edit: you know, I think this is a rare O'Club thread in which there's pointed opinions yet pretty much universal agreement.
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Like ol' Hank Jr. says, "Why do you drink?" (everyone) "TO GET DRUNK!" ;)
Thorns
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If you want grape juice, drink ****ing grape juice. If you want to get drunk, drink alcohol (http://www.bevmo.com/productinfo.asp?sku=00000056051&area=spirits&category=30010000&sid=03&catname=Vodka). :)
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funked that stuff tastes like the rubbing alcohol i have in my bathroom. buddy got some for Christmas and we tried it.
phhhptptpptptpptptpt.
THIS (http://www.bevmo.com/productinfo.asp?area=spirits&find_spec=&catname=Advanced+Search+Results) or THIS (http://www.bevmo.com/productinfo.asp?area=spirits&find_spec=&catname=Advanced+Search+Results) would be much better
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Mazz, like many have already said, the best wine is the kind you like. Doesn't matter if it got a good rating, or how much it costs. If you like it, it's good wine.
I recommend this book if you're interested in becoming a little more educated about wine in general: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1402700903/qid=1074475432/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_8/103-3469264-8528604?v=glance&s=books
Two of the best things I've ever done to improve my own wine drinking experience was to go to wine drinking events, where you can taste multiple wines immediately after each other, which makes it easier to understand the differences in taste, acidity, oakiness, etc.; the second thing that's helped is I've started to cook more often, and use the wine as an excuse to cook more home made meals. To my wife and I, a nice home cooked meal and a bottle of wine are one of life's little pleasures.
For white wine, my own personal favorite winery is Kendall Jackson. I've never had a bad wine from them. Their Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc are my two favorites at the moment.
I don't have a personal favorite winery for reds, but I really enjoy French reds, like Bordeaux and Rhone.
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http://www.tastings.com
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http://www.tastings.com
:aok
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Ive found myself particular to the reds thus far - not too big on the whites Ive tried up to this point. Im also a big red meat guy so I suppose my taste in meat has something to do with it.
Right now, for example, Im finishing up a 2002 Rosemount Shiraz - very, very good as far as I can tell. Seems to get better with each glass as the other tastes are washed away.
Ill probably pick up a few more bottles and put them away for 9-10 months.
Last week I was drinking 2002 Jacobs Creek Shiraz and Merlot. Very good... but seemed to be missing something - not quite as smooth as the Rosemount but Im not experienced enough to know why.
1- no not really....you can still drink white wine with red meat.
2- the 2nd sentence says it all " Seems to get better with each glass as the other tastes are washed away"....well said:aok
3- you know why.....you tasted a better wine and compared it to something less achieving in your opinion.....thats what drinking wine is all about....finding the best :cool: