Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: T1loady on January 21, 2004, 10:32:05 AM
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Ok guys, I have only been in this game for about 2 years, so I guess I am still A Noobie. I have a question that has really got my pissed. Here was the situation. I will be honest..
I up a LA-5 to protect a base with 20+ cons inbound. I climb up to about 10k before the enemy gets into Icon range and I turn to meet the horde coming to strat and capture my base. The closest thing to me is an F4u. I turn to meet the aircraft, and it is headed right for me. Decision time, should I try to dive away from this aircraft that has a bunch of E on me, or do I try to get a "lucky" (some might say dweeb) H/O shot. I decide that if keeps flying right at me why not just head-on . He is flying right at me and it takes two to tango right? Well I don’t shift course at all, and in fact look behind me to make sure im not being set up. As I look back in front of me there is that F4 1.0 out. I give a quick squeeze on the trigger and pray. The F4 hits me and rips off my vert stab. We both come crashing down. Then on channel 1 I get called a "skilless" something or another. I am not expert or anything, but if this ******(name removed) didn’t want to get H/O'd why not climb, or turn for that matter. I was at 200- 250KIAS with no energy. Hey had to be over 350 or 400 KIAS. All he had to do was climb a bit or even turn. There was not way for me to get a good position at his 6. He had the alt, airspeed, and energy but still flew right at me,. Hummm Im the skilless H/O dweeb?? Why do people insist on doing something stupid like this then call me a moron (for lack of better example)? Anyone who I have killed or has killed me knows I will through out the "nice fight" or the (S) even if they kill kil me H/O. I try to keep this game in an upbeat frame of mind and this game is something I really enjoy doing. I know someone will just say squelch channel 1, but I love reading the things that people say. So if you could, please let me know if it really takes 2 to H/O or am I just a no skill having POS H/O dweeb…
Thanks in advance for your inputs…
SkipNutz
H/O Dweeb
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do what you want...if get shot down by it...its them who needs to change...not you
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If he calls you a skilless HO dweeb, correct him and say it was your ram tactic that you've perfected and once again were successful at
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It's a game. Lighten up and don't worry about the other guy's blood pressure.
:cool:
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Yea I know to just ignore it. I have been called names before, but this guy just really got to me. I wanted to do a check and see if I was indeed an extrahunk. Thanks for the kind words for a change.. LOL
SkipNutz
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I don't know what others will say, but I never, EVER take a headon shot. It's too much of a crap shoot and gains you no advantage. Some guys think a HO is justified if they have the better guns, but even then it's still a crap shoot.
On the other hand, I force headons all the time, because it's a good way to gain seperation after I blow by, especially if I know the target can out turn me. But I won't take a shot - instead I'll evade with a roll, a dip, an opposite bank, whatever seems the best >LO G< evasive.
On the other hand, if I think I can out turn the enme, I'll begin a reversal - a loop, flat turn, whatever - a split second before the enemy goes by, his guns blazing at empty air. Now I've got the jump on a turn fight because he held his straight course trying to shoot me. If he has more E, so be it.
As to the jerk ragging you on Ch1, this constantly amazes me, cuz you're absolutely right. It takes two to HO. I practically never get HO'd cuz I never try to take the shot. Anyone who screams "HO dweeb" is just showing themselves to be bigger dweebs, because HO's are totally avoidable.
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Same thing happened to me last night. I was in a loaded 110 trying to get some alt. I see a HURR 6K out comming down straight at me. The only thing I could do was level, get some speed to allow me to lift the nose and try for the HO. at 2k out I pull up the nose to meet him (he is still comming straight at me). Did not have enough speed so the nose did not stay up long enough (did get a ping or two on him) and he proceded to destroy my planet. Then he gets on CH1 talking about another skilles rook HOer. Lets see, heavy 110 against a high E HURR and he chose to go for the HO. What other options did I have? And how the hell did he keep flying after he got at list 1 or 2 20mm or 30mm in the face?
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I hear ya.. Just for the record, this is not a whine post, just an eduction for me. I will make every attempt no to be the H/O dweeb, but if in the situation where nothing else can be done.... Well I hope my 20mm rip you apart..
SkipNutz
H/O dweeb for life.. Gulity lol
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Skip,
Avoiding H/O's are usually not that hard in my opinion, so if you shot him down, he's to blame as much as you are for his demise.
Regardless of how you fly, there will always be somebody who whines about it. My favorite in the situation you described is when you are closing with somebody starting at 6K - both going straight for the other - & they still whine about it when you shoot them down. At that distance they had plenty of time to avoid the H/O. That same person would have probably taunted you had they still been flying and you going down in flames.
I'm a firm believer it does take 2 to H/O. You both have to point your noses at each other for it to happen and you can't take the chance that the other guy won't fire if you don't. The majority will.
Gloves
BTW, here's a thread you might get a kick out of reading :
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78371
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T1Loady --"I will make every attempt no to be the H/O dweeb, but if in the situation where nothing else can be done.... Well I hope my 20mm rip you apart.. "--
There's ALWAYS something else - and something better - that can be done.
Except if you're in a 110 *GGG*
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I wouldn't give it a second thought! It does take two-to-tango and it's a game of "Air Chicken". Both know the risks...and rewards. To say there's NO skill in HO may not be totally true. The only time it bothers me at all is when I don't have a chance to avoid it! Like in an Up-and-Over move or a break turn where I didn't see it coming and have No "E" left to avoid with. Those are rare and hey.....It's Only a Game!
I also NEVER monitor Channel 1. The only major thing that's wrong with this SIM is the Brainless Banter on Channel 1. There's Nothing there I ever want to hear or read.
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Gloves, that link was to funny!!!!!!1 Thanks a bunch (S) to ya
SkipNutz
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Ah, yes... the headon whine. It's a classic, and it's right up there with a chute shooting whine in my book. The more I know they'll complain about it, the more I feel inclined to take the shot.
Take last night for example. A fella in a 190 made a couple of passes through our deacked base in an attempt to vulch, and on egress I blasted him in a narrow headon deflection shot. He complained mightily of my chosen method of dispatching him, and yet he acknowledged that he was planning on running away. So despite the fact that I had eliminated him quickly when he was planning on fleeing and never again giving me the opportunity to shoot at him, he felt the need to grouse on the open channel.
It warms my heart. It should warm yours too.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by 11dano11
There's ALWAYS something else - and something better - that can be done.
Danno your right about that, but my goal in life now is to H/O that guy again. Thanks for makeing me feel a little better about this. I try to think of myself as a good pilot in the game, and I am not used to guys being pr1cks about stuff that is supposed to be fun...
Skip
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This is just personal opinion, but I feel that HO Whine is a much finer Whine than Chute Shooting Whine.
The HO Whiner in all probability had a stick in one hand, a throttle in the other and his feet on the rudder pedals. In short, he had a chance to do something different. In essence, he chose or allowed the HO to develop to it's full robust flavor, with the fragrance of sour grapes and the lingering aftertaste of bitter defeat. That's a pretty fine whine.
The dead Bailer, OTOH, had shroud lines in his hands. Oh, it's true he could have waited a while, free-falling to the lower, more humid and flavorful atmosphere before pulling the D ring. (We all know, however, that to the master vinters of Chute Shooting whines, low altitude Chute Kills merely add depth to the flavors due to the spicy additional challenge.) So the Bailer, the "grapes" from which a good Chute Shooting wine are pressed, really has little option other than watching the press come down on him. This isn't much from which to make a fine whine; generally, I find these like Ripple or MD 20/20.. fun in a crazy sort of way but nothing you'd want to routinely stock down in the whine cellar. Just good for a quick short-snort with friends.
Thus, I find the HO Whines much more flavorful.
YMMV.
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Jousting is a valid "tactic", if one born of desperation. It just takes much less to get some people desperate than others. For instance, one con diving on you is enough to fluster you to where you don't know what else to do other than joust. That is your particular threshold of desperation. Of course, the other guy is a little bit more pathetic, since apparently just seeing an enemy is enough to through him into a panic.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Jousting is a valid "tactic", if one born of desperation. It just takes much less to get some people desperate than others. For instance, one con diving on you is enough to fluster you to where you don't know what else to do other than joust. That is your particular threshold of desperation. Of course, the other guy is a little bit more pathetic, since apparently just seeing an enemy is enough to through him into a panic.
Desperate I was, lol. I had bombs, rockets, and climing in a 110 only to see a HURR diving. A C47 would have been harder to down that me at that moment. I really don't care how I die (HO or not) Most of the times will be my fault. I just found it funny that the guy was so proud of himself for killing me and the fact that I was the scilless HOer, not him. lol
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Sometimes, when a Corsair gets a good head of steam, its hard to get out of the way of any objects coming at it.
Second, if I was in an LA-5, I'd go for the HO, too!
And I embrace HO's in a 190A8, 109G-anything-with-gondolas, Yak9T, Mosquito, and 110. "Come to me, Spitfire Dude! Come to daddy!"
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I'll put it a bit less charitably than Toad did, Dead Man. Chute shooting is just low, and mean... there's absolutely no reason for it** and it gains you nothing beyond simply pissing someone off. You've already beaten them, what's the point?
But maybe that's just me. Being an older fart, sportsmanship actually means something to me.
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**There are two situations where I can justify chuting a pilot in a parachute. One is if they've pulled the cord way to soon and are doomed to spend the next 20 minutes admiring the view. I'll occassionally put them out of their misery. The other is an enme parachute slowly descending over our field. No point in letting them radio anything back -- locations of GVs, missions up, goons up, etc -- to their buddies.
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Originally posted by 11dano11
On the other hand, if I think I can out turn the enme, I'll begin a reversal - a loop, flat turn, whatever - a split second before the enemy goes by, his guns blazing at empty air. Now I've got the jump on a turn fight because he held his straight course trying to shoot me. If he has more E, so be it.
Yup, this is what I do, but I will also take a very high angle deflection shot too. Most of the time they just bore on straight ahead and give me the chance to gain advantage on the merge, at which point the fight is usually over shortly thereafter.
I say let them whine.
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Skip, I don't HO. Since I fly the mustang often and it is fragile and has no cannon, HO'ing is a poor option for me. Unfortunately, the majority of people in the arena are happy to go straight for the HO on merge, regardless of the plane they are in. If it's 1v1 and they try this, I know it's a fight I'm going to win unless they go straight to the famous "Ho and go"... running straight away after their failed HO. Someone said it earlier in the thread that it takes 2 to HO. That person is painfully wrong. It takes 2 to merge, only one to attempt to turn it into a HO joust. HO's are very avoidable in the merge. I rarely get hit by them.
BTW, they are not always annoying. Every once in a while, I'll fly through a cloud of bad guys, I'll get a good hoot from all the fools that scramble for the HO. It's sort of like running a HO gauntlet.
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Originally posted by 11dano11
Chute shooting is just low, and mean... there's absolutely no reason for it.
You are of course right. Chutes are just cute, innocent pieces of nylon that would never harm anyone and should be protected by the Geneva convention.
That’s why you aim for the little guy hanging from the chute.
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Originally posted by 11dano11
I'll put it a bit less charitably than Toad did, Dead Man. Chute shooting is just low, and mean... there's absolutely no reason for it** and it gains you nothing beyond simply pissing someone off. You've already beaten them, what's the point?
I like watching explosions. And I am low and mean and completely unsportsmanlike anyway.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by 11dano11
... Chute shooting is just low, and mean... there's absolutely no reason for it** and it gains you nothing beyond simply pissing someone off. You've already beaten them, what's the point?...
You have answered your own question.
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Alls fair in my opinion.
I do hate HOs though and try to avoid them as much as I can. I mean why risk it when I have a loving wife and all?
oh wait.... wrong topic.
but anyway headons are too much of a gamble for me unless it is a forced issue. I'd rather fight a while and lose fair rather than win or lose by a crap shot. Like I said though, all is fair.
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I've tried for a long time to refrain from shooting HO but unfortunately most of the server has punished me for that attitude. I still don't fire HO on the initial merge, more for the angles after the merge than anything else.
Here is when I take the HO shot;
1. When I have roped someone- if they are at 100 or less ias and are about to stall out.
2. When its a BnZ enemy that has made multiple HO passes, extending up or out 4k or more. I haven't lost one of these yet, these guys usually aren't any good anyway. Generally, I have fun asking them to learn some other ability as the HO isn't working for them :D
3. When I'm stuck in a rolling scissor with an enemy.
4.When I am attacking buffs, C47s, or vulching.
I wish HTC could record what aspect angle a fighter was downed at and keep it on the pilot scores.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Ah, yes... the headon whine. It's a classic, and it's right up there with a chute shooting whine in my book. The more I know they'll complain about it, the more I feel inclined to take the shot.
-- Todd/Leviathn
The Hate is strong in this one....
ack-ack
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I think it is two different styles of playing the game
1. Combat- If they are red, SHOOT do everything you can to capture / defend a base. Any enemy should be a dead enemy. These people are mission oriented.
2. ACM- Those that enjoy the pure challenge of a fight. Boom and zoom, turn fight....it does not matter. Just identifying your enemy's aircraft's strengths and weaknesses against your own, and in the end the skill of the pilot as well.
Usualy when I am attacking a base I do not HO. But when I am defending, there is a sense of urgency, or desperation in the situatuion. Kill the aggressors!!!
And when 1 meets 2 you get the all too familiar whine on ch. 1
is either wrong?
btw, If you are dumb enough to HO my Hurri 2c then publicly admit that you tried to HO a Hurri................
I love the ram whines. Ok, a HO is one thing, but do you ever think someone plans on ramming someone? HO yes, you have made the decision in your head to pull the trigger. A ram? most of the time people are scissoring for position and end up hitting each other. Then almost in unison the "nice ram xxxxxxx" "no, u rammed me!!" way too funny.
Tapakeg
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Originally posted by tapakeg
I love the ram whines. Ok, a HO is one thing, but do you ever think someone plans on ramming someone?
On two occasions I can recall I have rammed people from behind (more of a settling down on their tail actually) when i was out of ammunition. Oddly I think I was able to return to base both times.
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It will never end, you will always have someone on Ch.1 complaining about something. Its a never ending cycle that will continue for as long as the game lasts. Most everyone is guilty of doing something like a HO or Chute shooter at some point and time, hell i've been HO'd and i have HO'd, I've had my chute shot and i have shot chutes (for spying mostly). I do think the Ch.1 BS is mostly out of anger in the heat of the moment and givin a few minutes they realize that they themselves are just as guilty. So maybe before engaging in Ch.1 fighting maybe you should count to 10 or in some cases 350...lol.
Do unto others as they do unto you :aok
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Thanks everyone for you rimput. I feel alot better about what I did. I like to try to fly the game and land my kils. I try not to crash and hop into another plane jump to ager to strat. I always defend my bases at all cost. If I H/O you it is 50% your fault. Thanks again for all the words fella's. Hope to see you in the in the "Skies" soon..
SkipNutz
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How about going for the triple play? HO, Ram and then chute shooting to round it out. That would pop a vein or two.:D
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If someone bails real high in a furball and floats for 10 minutes, I don't see a problem in removing the cluttering icon :D
Can't tell you how many times I've broke to evade the chute on my 6 :)