Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GtoRA2 on January 21, 2004, 10:38:50 AM
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Who would have thought.
He came home from the war early, and then joined the Vets against the war, and gave a speech in front of a North Vietnamese flag! How scummy is that if he did do it?
He also wrote a book and the cover was pretty offensive, making fun of the Iwo Jima Memorial.
(http://www.usvetdsp.com/newsol_cov.jpg)
I got the info from this site. But I read the speech he made as well and it was pretty bad.
Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry (http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm)
The site implies that since he lost his first bid for congress he decided to go VERY left to get the hippy scum vote...
Is dean and kerry the best the dems can do? This ****ing sucks, where is someone who does not like Bush but does not want to waste his vote on scum supposed to go.
I edited this because in retrospect it was counter productive to what I wanted to talk about in this thread. If I offended anyone I am sorry.
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okay, he was against a illegal and immoral war. He has a slighty better perspective on it then you do as well. Unless you fought in vietnam?
btw that first photo is photoshoped. That site is kinda funny. I support the guy even more now. Stands up for his convictions.
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No I did not.
He can be a good man and be against the war. Posing and making a speech in the front of the flag of an enemy is going too far.
I do not think Vietnam was Illegal, and it was only immoral because we did not fight to win and we propped up a corrupt government.
I have every right to have an opinion on a man who wants to be the leader of my nation whether I fought in Vietnam or not.
He does not stand up for his convictions. I think he went to the far left to get votes not because he really believed it, just to further his career.
You can think what you want, as can I and I think he is scum and will not waste my vote for him. At least I am trying to keep an open mind and read up on these guys before I decide. I read what he had to say about the war on another site, and not only was I offended, I think he is a liar. Or at the very best takes limmited cases and makes it sound like it was the whole war.
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Its a photoshopped picture. Damn your easy to manipulate.
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It may be photo shopped, but I read that he DID in fact sit in front of the north Vietnamese flag to give an anti war speech.
I do not really care what you think Froggy. This post was for the more reasonable people on the boards.
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He fought for this country, did some heroic stuff and saved at least one American soldiers life and then wrote books condeming an immoral and unjust war that killed 58K American soldiers....
...what's your problem, would you rather he try to skip out of the war like some current scumbag politicians did?
...or are you the kind who sees decent as an unamerican activity no matter what the cause?
Get real, Mr. Kerry has served this country a hell of a lot more than 99% of the current administration...is that a bad thing?
BTW, I'm backing the General.
Casting disparaging remarks while sitting at home or work safe and cozy takes more balls than actualy fighting for your country...huh?
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Now hes from North Korea.... :lol
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Of course you dont care what i think. I offer facts, and fantasy land is more appealing to those who do not like to critically think.
If you want to see what kerry actually said go here: http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Manifestos/VVAW_Kerry_Senate.html
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I read that he is a space alien with designs on taking over the world. I'm voting against that evil alien bastard!
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he represents his party well as do the others still in the race
LOL :rofl
libs - aren't they great???
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Originally posted by SOB
I read that he is a space alien with designs on taking over the world. I'm voting against that evil alien bastard!
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Originally posted by Eagler
he represents his party well as do the others still in the race
LOL :rofl
libs - aren't they great???
Im guessing you would have rather stayed in vietman untill every vietnamese was dead eagler. You make me sick.
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Originally posted by SOB
I read that he is a space alien with designs on taking over the world. I'm voting against that evil alien bastard!
First we will go to Earth! Then to Mars! Then to Pluto! Then Venus! Then we will go to Saturn and Jupiter!!!!!!!
Yeeeeehaaaaaaaaalllllaaaooooo uiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
Im guessing you would have rather stayed in vietman untill every vietnamese was dead eagler. You make me sick.
when did i say i was for that war frogface?
which admin got us into that one? which admin got us out?
kerry sure as hell didn't ... I him as a soldier, I piss on him as a two faced politician
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Explain how he is a two faced politition?
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Mrlars
Go read some of my past postings, I am not unreasonable. I do not care for Bush and I want to vote for a good man. I do not think Dean or Kerry are good men.
I can respect that Kerry went but when he came back he threw himself in with a bunch of scum and protested. That fine as well, but posing in front of a North Vietnamese flag while giving a speech about the war is wrong in my opinion.
I read the whole speech he made, I read it on a pro Kerry site, and though I have no proof and was not there I think he exaggerated things.
You said
He fought for this country, did some heroic stuff and saved at least one American soldiers life and then wrote books condeming an immoral and unjust war that killed 58K American soldiers....
I am still looking for another account of the heroic stuff, but I do respect that he served. That is a point in his favor.
...what's your problem, would you rather he try to skip out of the war like some current scumbag politicians did?
I do not really like that Bush used the TANG to get out of the war nor do I like Bush as a president, but at this point I think he will do less damage the Dean or Kerry
...or are you the kind who sees decent as an unamerican activity no matter what the cause?
Nice mud slinging. I am a pretty patriotic guy and not blindly so. I have been spending much of my time trying to learn about these guys before I make the call. I would say maybe you the one who is going a bit overboard here.
Get real, Mr. Kerry has served this country a hell of a lot more than 99% of the current administration...is that a bad thing?
No it is not as I have said before. But posing in front of the flag of an enemy while you protest a war the nation is currently fighting is at best extremely low class, and at worst aiding enemies. I have not confirmed that the pic is real or that he REALLY did pose or give a speech in front of that flag, but I did read it in two different places. I am still looking to confirm, and would love to be proven wrong.
, I'm backing the General.
I have some reservations about Clarke as well, but I would prolly vote for him if he gets the nod. I will be reading more about him when I can find sources that are not far left or far right.
Casting disparaging remarks while sitting at home or work safe and cozy takes more balls than actualy fighting for your country...huh?
You are coming of as a dick here( maybe I am being to sensitive), I am not sure if you are trying to be one. What I wanted was a mature and adult conversation about Kerry, if you can’t handle that maybe you should not post. All I am doing is posting my opinion on something this man did. You seem like you are trying to make this personal. I have every right to my opinion, and at least if I am wrong about the flag thing I will admit that I was wrong and change my opinion on the man.
I really hope you are not implying that since I did not fight in Vietnam, or serve my country, I have no right to have an opinion or speak it?
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
But posing in front of the flag of an enemy while you protest a war the nation is currently fighting is at best extremely low class, and at worst aiding enemies.
Stop smoking the dope.
It's a Photoshop... hack. DUDE!
:rofl
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Many people are against that war till this day. As for as the commy flag and other radical left wing tidbits, its obviously photoshoped. If it were real, this would have come out long ago. Sign of the times in my opinion, half of the nation was on acid. Least he went and served and saw combat. There are no real rambos in war, just bravery and lucky men. Hes still a patriot in my opinion.
As for symbolism on the cover of the book. That all depends on how you interpret the symbolism and what you define as an icon of your own heros or agenda.
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GTora,
I think he was just trying to relay to you that the photograph you are looking at (which seems to be the biggest part of your dislike for kerry) was/is not real.. It was a photoshop fake of him infront of the N V flag.. Then he asked you why you thought kerry was 2 faced... Pretty sure thats it.. Got lost somewhere.. hehe
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Originally posted by SOB
I read that he is a space alien with designs on taking over the world. I'm voting against that evil alien bastard!
I, for one, welcome our new alien overlords.
(http://headworks.net/simpsons/photo/Images/Pictures/kentbig2.gif)
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Originally posted by Nakhui
Stop smoking the dope.
It's a Photoshop... hack. DUDE!
:rofl
We've established this.
It doesnt change the fact that he gave a speech infront of a Viet flag.
Talk about fantasy land. We've a whole Amellia Bedellia (sp?) thing going on here - youre arguing the irrelevant details instead of focusing on the issue.
The only reason I can come up with is because it doesnt suit your point of view.
Kerry's in some real trouble - he can get the anti-war vote based on his actions during and after Vietnam, but any soldier who did his duty for his country without pride or prejudice will see him in a less favorable light.
Catch 22 with the Dem candidates this year. No candidate has a hope of gaining any right of center votes and it seems ot me that the campaign managers seem to have lost sight of this in their quest to villify Bush.
You can only get along for so long with an anti-everything stance - sooner or later the people will want substance - they will want to know what these candidates are for and "Get Bush out of office" isnt going to cut it after a few more states.
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Ok... Point of order here..
Did he or did he not give a speech infront of the NV flag after he served his term??
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What was the context of the VC flag? anyone know? is there any pictures or proof? exactly.
Going out on a limb, but those who served in vietnam would support kerry. Remember a majority of americans were against that bull**** of a war.
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Guys
I understand that photo is prolly photoshoped.
I read in other places he did sit in front of a N Vietnamese flag and give an anti war speech. If that is the case then what I say stands.
AGAIN I undstand that photo may be photoshopped, but I have READ, he did give a speach in front of a N Vietnamese, so that photo does not have to be real if he did do it an there is not a photo. Or he did do it and there is a photo, just not THAT photo.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
What was the context of the VC flag? anyone know? is there any pictures or proof? exactly.
Going out on a limb, but those who served in vietnam would support kerry. Remember a majority of americans were against that bull**** of a war.
Then why are their already "Vets against Kerry" sites?
I didnt serve in Vietnam, but if I did serve my tour without *****ing and moan - even if I was against it - I wouldnt be too fond of Kerry.
Id assume that the majority of Kerry's support surrounding the Vietnam issue would come from those who never served and those who didnt like their platoon sergeant.
Lets not forget those individuals who fought for their country and werent against the war at all.
Its fine to be against war - but you need a reason besides... well... being against war. In Kerry's case, I get the impression that he is against war because it gets better press.
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HE MADE TEH SPEACH I DONT CARE IF THE PICTURE IS FOTOSHOPED!!!1!!!1
Yet no one has posted a credibile source (come on, you can even give me Fox news here) saying that he gave a speech in front of an NV flag.
You aren't going to convince anybody like that. It's a pretty big hole in the argument, especially when few others on the board have heard of it.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
It may be photo shopped, but I read that he DID in fact sit in front of the north Vietnamese flag to give an anti war speech.
I do not really care what you think Froggy. This post was for the more reasonable people on the boards.
Was that before or after he won the Silver Star?
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Golly-geemit Tarman, what the hell is wrong with you ? Are you a terrorist lover or something ?
I'm telling you that I've heard from some people that Bush gave a speach in front of North Korean flag with his hair colored pink and 10 foot dildo sticking out of his butt. And to top if all off, in his speach he announced his undying love for Hillary Clinton !!! That's proof enough !!!
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man slandering veterans is getting to be a full time job for conservatives funny to think.
hee fedskis post came while i was writing this bush is not a vet anyway.
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GtoRA2: He can be a good man and be against the war. Posing and making a speech in the front of the flag of an enemy is going too far.
Even if that flag was not photoshopped in, North Vietnam did not attack United States or even threaten to do so. It was not an enemy.
US became North Vietnam's enemy by launching an unprovoked attack after manufacturing a false Tonkin Gulf incident as a pretext.
Ho Shi Min approached US several times as a friend - asking for US help in establishing democratic Vietnam. All he wanted was for US to use it's influence on France to give independence to it's former colony.
First time it happened in 1918 at the time of Versaille treaty and second time after WWII. In both cases US was more interested in french keepinmg their colonial posessions than in freedom and democracy.
By denying cooperation to pro-independence liberal forces in Vietnam US practically threw it into the embrace of communists - who gained reputation fighing both japanese invaders and french colonialists.
miko
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Regardless of whether there's proof of him doing it or not, why is he automatically a bad person if he gave a speech with the Vitenam's flag as the backdrop?
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How would you feel SOB, if you where in the Hanoi hilton, and some gaurd came over and gave you a photo and played a tape of a US serviceman slamming the war in front of the flag the men who torture you every day serve under.
Yeah thats not bad at all....
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Originally posted by SOB
Regardless of whether there's proof of him doing it or not, why is he automatically a bad person if he gave a speech with the Vitenam's flag as the backdrop?
Yes he is. How cool would it be for servicemen in the field if some whacko veteran gave speeches under a Japanese flag during WW2? Plus the fact that he cooperated so closely with Hanoi Jane - who gave even worse propaganda support to the Vietnamese by taunting US pilots by manning an NVA AAA gun during the combat years... Both are awfuf things and tagen together they are utterly disgraceful.
And one more thing I was generally positive about Kerry among the the other democrats, that is until I read into this behavior more today... What a creep.
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Here's a link (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/1/20/131219.shtml) to an op-ed piece listing some of Mr. Kerry's adventures in his post-Vietnam life. Some interesting reading, but of course it is an op-ed piece. I'd like to see some verification of the claims.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
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Catch 22 with the Dem candidates this year. No candidate has a hope of gaining any right of center votes ....
Won't matter what the Dem candidate represents or what he did, those right of center voters mostly like what Bush has been doing. He'll get their vote.
You can only get along for so long with an anti-everything stance - sooner or later the people will want substance - they will want to know what these candidates are for and "Get Bush out of office" isnt going to cut it after a few more states.
LOL, seems funny that as soon as there seems to be a Dem front runner, an anti-Dem here will pick something to hate about the current Dem front-runner. Seems no side here (left or right leaning) can claim to be innocent on this mud-slinging tactic.
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Was this Vietnam War ever declared as such while the US was involved in it or was it recognised and declared by the US as a Policing Action?
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And he is unscuruplously honest too!
"Throw as I say, not as I do:
On that same day he led members of VVAW in a protest during which they threw their medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the U.S. Capitol.
Kerry later admitted the medals he threw were not his. To this day they hang on the wall of his office."
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Was this Vietnam War ever declared as such while the US was involved in it or was it recognised and declared by the US as a Policing Action?
The U.S. has declared war four times - 1812, spanish-american, WW1, and WW2
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
We've established this.
The only reason I can come up with is because it doesnt suit your point of view.
Saur,
Are you addressing these comments to me?
I was just commenting that the photo is a hack.
However, if you talking to me... I don't believe I'v made an opinion about Kerry - frankly, because I have none...
except,
now that I think about it, he looks, speaks, and behaves like all the other Democrat and Republican politicians.
They are very hard to distinguish... wait... nope... Republicans wear suit and ties when they are in public and jeans when they are on their multimillion dollar ranches.
And Democrats wear jeans when they are in public and go naked when they are on their pot smoking retreats in the national forests.
That's as much as I have manage to distinguish between them all...
What ever happen to Dean... you know the "I'm tired of being a Pin cushion" cry baby?
Unfortunately for Kerry the last thing he wants to be is first in Iowa, because Iowa hasn't predicted a democratic president in decades... usually, the guy who wins Iowa looses the race.
At least Kerry did something for his country and even saved a man's life -
Still he is a pond scum bottom-feeding maggot-farming lemon-pucker mother-trucking cattle-proding cat-milking master-of-his- own-doman brain-donoring fart-sniffing....
Now... what the heck was I talking about....
Sheesh...
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
How would you feel SOB, if you where in the Hanoi hilton, and some gaurd came over and gave you a photo and played a tape of a US serviceman slamming the war in front of the flag the men who torture you every day serve under.
Yeah thats not bad at all....
As I've never been in that unfortunate situation I can't begin to guess what would be going through my mind. When I look at it now, were it real, I think "hey look, some dip**** in front of a commie flag" - the world's full of dip****s, so it really doesn't bother me one way or the other. However, we all do stupid things in our life, and that doesn't make us bad people.
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GRUNHERZ: Yes he is. How cool would it be for servicemen in the field if some whacko veteran gave speeches under a Japanese flag during WW2?
How cool would it be for a serbian soldier decrying an unwaranted agression of his government from under croatian flag?
Concience is not issued with passport. At least the real concience.
miko
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Originally posted by SOB
However, we all do stupid things in our life, and that doesn't make us bad people.
Wonderful politicians can change - GWB used to have alcohol/drug problems, but he's reformed now. What a wonderul story of a tormented man overcoming his demons.
Kerry has been accused of making a speech in poor taste 35 years ago, which makes him a scumbag for life. NEVAR FORGET!
No double standard here. Move along.
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This is hilarious!
This picture says it all!!
But its a fake!
So! It's just like the story I heard.
But you were mad at the picture!
So! I believe! I believe!!
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Got awfully quiet here.
Still waiting on some facts about his speech - and no, "vets against kerry" won't cut it as a credible source.
Did you seriously not notice that the NV flag is in color, while Kerry is in black and white in the pic? Come on.
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Did you seriously not notice that the NV flag is in color, while Kerry is in black and white in the pic? Come on.
I just thought it was his camo blending in... :lol
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"Got awfully quiet here."
He and BGBMAW are formulating a massive rebuttal speech.
I for one can't wait to see it ;)
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Look I stated before I did not consider that pic evidence.
I am at work, and I am very busy today. I do not have time to even be up here right now let alone being doing web searches finding sources.
If I have time I will try tonight.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Look I stated before I did not consider that pic evidence.
Originally posted by GtoRA2
This image is enough.
Sounds like you considered it evidence there.
And besides, if you're acknowledging that it's fake, why don't you remove the lie you've posted in the beginning of this thread? When you admit your evidence is fake, it's generally good practice to remove it and your references to it as some sort of truth.
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Tarmac
THAT pic is fake, I have yet to see proof one way or another if he did make a speech in front of the flag. Or one just like it.
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Working to end the war did not affect the people in pow camps in a bad way. The sooner the war was over the sooner they got out. If you know the history of the war, or have studied what we were doing while there then you would understand that it was very illegal, and very immoral.
Btw i hear john mccain(pow) and kerry are good friends.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Tarmac
THAT pic is fake, I have yet to see proof one way or another if he did make a speech in front of the flag. Or one just like it.
So if you're interested in the pursuit of truth over the advancement of a particular (ie anti-Kerry) agenda, how about you take the lie down until you find some real evidence?
Are we going with "innocent until proven guilty" here, or "burn the witch" justice?
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(http://www.usvetdsp.com/t_ken_ker.jpg)
interesting link on the "hero" kerry:
http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm
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"In December of 1992, not long after Kerry was quoted in the world press stating "President Bush should reward Vietnam within a month for its increased cooperation in accounting for American MIAs," Vietnam announced it had granted Colliers International, based in Boston, Massachusetts, a contract worth billions designating Colliers International as the exclusive real estate agent representing Vietnam.
That deal alone put Colliers in a position to make tens of millions of dollars on the rush to upgrade Vietnam's ports, railroads, highways, government buildings, etc. C. Stewart Forbes, Chief Executive Officer of Colliers International, is Kerry's cousin. Kerry was portrayed in The New Yorker as a proud Vietnam veteran and "war hero" who, as chairman of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, dared to take on and defeat the "mendacious POW lobby." "
more (http://www.usvetdsp.com/story10.htm)
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Oh god no, he is meeting with a senator, because the supreme court said the vets couldnt hang out on public property.
If you want to compare at that same time bush was scoreing some blow.
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So Mr. Kerry had the gall to take a lesson in political action and civil disobedience from those terrorists Martin Luther King Jr. and Mahatma Ghandi?
(http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/ps60a.jpg)
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As I've never been in that unfortunate situation I can't begin to guess what would be going through my mind. When I look at it now, were it real, I think "hey look, some dip**** in front of a commie flag" - the world's full of dip****s, so it really doesn't bother me one way or the other.
Yet again, SOB cuts through the sentimental Tom Hanks bull**** and gets to the heart of the matter. Smashing.
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DAMN ALL THAT OPPOSE WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT DEAMS RIGHT AND CORRECT!!!!! HOW DARE THEY ARGUE WITH THE PRESIDENTS DEMANDS!!!!!1
wait that isnt very american.....
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Nice score Eagler! Not sure on what but apparantly you think you slam dunked one. Semper Fi! HoooHAH!
In the meantime I'm looking for a real photo that is at least as embarassing as this:
(http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg)
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Dude westy. That proves that bush knows that WMDs are somewhere in iraq. Hell his advisors sold them to saddam.
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(http://www.halalpak.com/issue3/press_report/pictures/heinz.jpg)
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
Dude westy. That proves that bush knows that WMDs are somewhere in iraq. Hell his advisors sold them to saddam.
:lol :rofl :lol
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Originally posted by GScholz
Hmm let's see ... highly decorated war veteran ... has a real political alternative rather than just Dean style Bush-bashing ... experienced politician ...
Yeah, I can see why the Büzhists are afraid of him.
LOL
yeah right, we were afraid of crazy dean too :rofl
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Dean is the comedy option democrat. Kerry Edward or maybe Clark are the ones that will be Bush's opponent. All much better people.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
Dean is the comedy option democrat. Kerry Edward or maybe Clark are the ones that will be Bush's opponent. All much better people.
but he wasn't a week ago - he was the runaway leader for the nomination
clark is a kook like dean, kerry is the only one who will make it out alive but, purple hearts and all, he has many skeletons in his closet to take on this admin. the smart ones will wait until 08
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Originally posted by Eagler
(http://www.usvetdsp.com/t_ken_ker.jpg)
interesting link on the "hero" kerry:
http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm
It's John Kerry and the all grown up Eddie Monster ?
LMAO ... :aok
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noone has more skeletons then the bush administration. except maybe clinton. But bush gets away with it because he gets the "awww he is so cute and innocent, there is noway he is smart enough to know what was going on" thing from the media.
his buddy kenny boy lay did more to hurt this country then saddam ever did.
Dean was the media appointed front runner. No moderate democrats actually like the guy.
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Since I'm getting old and fart alot I'll not try to place your text in quotes, but I will try to respond to some of your questions.
As for your past postings, I've been aware that you're atypical of most posters on this board in that you, in the past, seem to have shown that you have an open mind...that is why I reacted to your subject line...it's a tone that Martlet or Eagler would use...hence my reaction.
You're statment that Mr. Kerry 'threw himself in with a bunch of scum and protested" smacks of the 'new nationalism' that has gripped a lot of those that blindly embrace this administration and their rhetoric of "activism equels treason". Our forefathers must be rolling in their graves because this isn't what a true American should belive....but in this country they have a right to believe what they want....it's a two way road but the some on the Right think it's a one way street.
About who will do less damage to this country than GWB...you're serious about this? I may agree with you about Mr. Dean but to be fair, I've read little about his plan to reverse the damage that GWB has done to us in regards to forign affairs...that is one of the many reasons I'm backing the General. To say that neither JK or HD could do better can't be proven...so it must be just your opinion...I think it's totaly false, but that's just MY opinion.
I'll not question you're patriotism, I know too little of you too form an opinion on that. However, the subject line of this thread sugests that, and this is MY opinion, you are too easy to condem Mr. Kerry's actions that happened regardless of the mitigating circumstances. I lived and fought in those times and belive me, there was a time I wanted to do things completeley contrary to my personal morality...I'm an unbeliever, anybody who belives that there are no Athiests in a foxhole are idiots that are all too easily manipulated.
So, if you took my barbs as mudslinging...sorry 'bout that, like I said, I'm getting old and my fuse must be getting a bit short. As for me sounding like a dick...what can I say but that, as a combat vet I tend to jump on a high horse sometimes...it isn't right but ...mitigating circumstances often times dictate ones actions, right or wrong. My apologies.
Regarding the right to opinion vs service to America...no, I'll never question that right...however I may ask why you never felt the urge to serve your country, but not in a disparaging tone...my generation held service in a much higher regard than later generations...sadly, Vietnam was the turning point.
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Mrlars
Go read some of my past postings, I am not unreasonable. I do not care for Bush and I want to vote for a good man. I do not think Dean or Kerry are good men.
I can respect that Kerry went but when he came back he threw himself in with a bunch of scum and protested. That fine as well, but posing in front of a North Vietnamese flag while giving a speech about the war is wrong in my opinion.
I read the whole speech he made, I read it on a pro Kerry site, and though I have no proof and was not there I think he exaggerated things.
You said
He fought for this country, did some heroic stuff and saved at least one American soldiers life and then wrote books condeming an immoral and unjust war that killed 58K American soldiers....
I am still looking for another account of the heroic stuff, but I do respect that he served. That is a point in his favor.
...what's your problem, would you rather he try to skip out of the war like some current scumbag politicians did?
I do not really like that Bush used the TANG to get out of the war nor do I like Bush as a president, but at this point I think he will do less damage the Dean or Kerry
...or are you the kind who sees decent as an unamerican activity no matter what the cause?
Nice mud slinging. I am a pretty patriotic guy and not blindly so. I have been spending much of my time trying to learn about these guys before I make the call. I would say maybe you the one who is going a bit overboard here.
Get real, Mr. Kerry has served this country a hell of a lot more than 99% of the current administration...is that a bad thing?
No it is not as I have said before. But posing in front of the flag of an enemy while you protest a war the nation is currently fighting is at best extremely low class, and at worst aiding enemies. I have not confirmed that the pic is real or that he REALLY did pose or give a speech in front of that flag, but I did read it in two different places. I am still looking to confirm, and would love to be proven wrong.
, I'm backing the General.
I have some reservations about Clarke as well, but I would prolly vote for him if he gets the nod. I will be reading more about him when I can find sources that are not far left or far right.
Casting disparaging remarks while sitting at home or work safe and cozy takes more balls than actualy fighting for your country...huh?
You are coming of as a dick here( maybe I am being to sensitive), I am not sure if you are trying to be one. What I wanted was a mature and adult conversation about Kerry, if you can’t handle that maybe you should not post. All I am doing is posting my opinion on something this man did. You seem like you are trying to make this personal. I have every right to my opinion, and at least if I am wrong about the flag thing I will admit that I was wrong and change my opinion on the man.
I really hope you are not implying that since I did not fight in Vietnam, or serve my country, I have no right to have an opinion or speak it?
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MrLars
Ok your right, the title to the post and some of what I put in it was prolly not my best. I had not fully thought this all through. I still do not like Kerry, and I have not found proof one way or another if he did give that speech in front of a North Vietnamese flag or not.
I should have worded the whole post a bit better, I really wanted to know what people thought and to see if anyone had heard anything like this. The way I started this thread was counter productive to that.
Part of my bad reaction on this is my dad was a Vietnam Vet, He was in the Navy and went over there on the USS America and worked on F4 phantoms.
When he came home he had anti war protestors throw dog **** on him. I grew up hearing about that. I have no problems with anyone protesting anything, I do not like it but I understand it is a very important right in the country. But protesting a war by abusing the soldiers and sailors that where drafted to go is pretty low class in my opinion. I know how my dad felt about it.
Therein lies my disrespect for the protestors of the 60s, they did not support the troops. Troops for the most part who had no choice.
As for why I never served? Frankly I am ashamed I did not. Believe that if you want I am telling the truth, Every male on my dads side of the Family served, most in the Navy. My granddad was a career NCO and was on the Tennessee on Dec 7 1941.
I did not join because I got a really good job, I was working with a Marine recruiter and had planned on signing up, and a really good job came along. Due to some family problems. (mother is crippled after 12 back surgeries) I decided, I just could not leave the area and the job was the better choice.
I am now to old to join without a waiver, and I am also to out of shape. Hell I prolly would not have made it through boot camp anyway since I have a gimpy shoulder, but I wanted to try.
I am going to go edit my first post, I regret the way I worded it. The thread has not changed my mind much about Kerry, but I will keep reading up on him to see if I am wrong.
We will have to agree to disagree on Dean or Kerry being better then Bush; it is all opinion at this point anyway. I will freely admit, bush is not a great president, I do not think he is satans spawn like some of the wack jobs in this forum, but I do not agree with his spending, or with some of his recent policies, and at this point I think it was prolly a mistake to go into Iraq. I am ashamed sometimes that men are dying and I am sitting comfortable back home... My only wish at this point is that we do not half bellybutton it and betray the people of Iraq.
Thank you for your post Mrlars, though we do not agree on some stuff, I am glad you took the time to reply.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
When he came home he had anti war protestors throw dog **** on him. I grew up hearing about that. I have no problems with anyone protesting anything, I do not like it but I understand it is a very important right in the country. But protesting a war by abusing the soldiers and sailors that where drafted to go is pretty low class in my opinion. I know how my dad felt about it.
Therein lies my disrespect for the protestors of the 60s, they did not support the troops. Troops for the most part who had no choice.
These idiots should have received a severe beating.
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Unlikely the dems will even consider a candidate I'd consider. So, let 'em pick one before we roll back the carpet to see what's been swept under. Shouldn't show yer cards 'till the bettin's done. Never met a cliche I didn't like.
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SOB
I agree! Hell, it should be a Policy, somethrows dog**** on a Soldier, he gets to stump the guys guts out!!
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http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2003/05-05-2003/vo19no09_kerry.htm (http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2003/05-05-2003/vo19no09_kerry.htm)
Kerry Postures as a War Hero
by John F. McManus
As a presidential hopeful, Senator John Kerry touts his military experience. But 30 years ago he led anti-war protests and marched alongside revolutionary Communists.
Senator John Kerry wants to be president. His membership in the Council on Foreign Relations guarantees that the world government crowd will accept him. He can tap into his wife’s millions to overcome any fundraising shortfall. And his connection to Yale’s eerily secretive Skull & Bones Society opens doors to many of its movers and shakers — though veteran Bones critic Ron Rosenbaum notes the possibility of a "Bones versus Bones smackdown" should Bonesmen Bush and Kerry face off in 2004.
Kerry does not want the voting public made aware of his CFR and Bones credentials. Nor does he want to be likened to Ted Kennedy and Michael Dukakis, Massachusetts archliberals out of step with the nation at large. So when he presents himself to voters, he or his handlers insist that he is a foreign policy expert who benefits from past military service.
After an appearance at a New Hampshire campaign stop on April 2nd, an exceptional need for Kerry to trot out his military service occurred. He told a small group of future primary voters that "regime change" was needed not just in Iraq but "in the United States." Reacting to Kerry’s statement, Republicans pounced on him like wolves on a wounded lamb, claiming that by using the term "regime" he had likened the Bush administration to Saddam Hussein’s tyranny. So the senator and his aides played their military card. "I don’t need any lessons in patriotism or in caring about America from the likes of the right wing," Kerry told a Georgia audience. And he speedily supplied each of his campaign spokesmen with a statement that said in part: "Unlike many of his Republican critics, Senator Kerry has worn the uniform, served his country, seen combat, so he’d just as soon skip their lectures about supporting our troops."
Kerry did serve as an officer in the U.S. Navy during the Vietnam War. And he did win a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. So far, so good. But when he returned home, he became a war protester. In America, of course, everybody is free to agree or disagree with a government policy. But Kerry did not just disagree; he became a leader of groups that championed our nation’s foes while our forces were still fighting and dying.
In 1971, the Communist Daily World delightedly published photos of him speaking to demonstrators as a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). The April 23, 1971 Daily World boasted that the marchers displayed a banner depicting a portrait of Communist Party leader Angela Davis, who was on record stating: "I am dedicated to the overthrow of your system of government and your society."
By frequently participating in VVAW’s demonstrations, Kerry found himself marching alongside what the Boston Herald Traveler identified as "revolutionary Communists." While noting that known Reds had openly organized these events, the December 12, 1971 Herald Traveler reported the presence of an "abundance of Vietcong flags, clenched fists raised in the air, and placards plainly bearing legends in support of China, Cuba, the USSR, North Korea and the Hanoi government."
Seeking election to the U.S. House in 1972, Kerry found it necessary to suppress reproduction of the cover picture appearing on his own book, The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted several unkempt youths crudely handling an American flag to mock the famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima. Suddenly, copies of the book became unavailable and even disappeared from libraries. But the Lowell (Mass.) Sun said of the type of person shown on its cover: "These people spit on the flag, they burn the flag, they carry the flag upside down, [and] they all but wipe their noses with it in their efforts to show their contempt for everything it still stands for."
During the 1972 "Kerry for Congress" campaign, flyers invited voters to "hear Ramsey Clark, former Attorney General, who has just recently returned from a visit in North Vietnam." While in Hanoi, Clark had distinguished himself by roundly condemning the United States, heaping praise on his Communist hosts, and lecturing American prisoners of war.
In May 1972, the Boston Phoenix reported that Kerry had defiantly given his medals back to the U.S. government during one of his many protests. New York Times columnist Bill Keller wrote in September 2002 that the senator invited him to view 40 minutes of films Kerry made depicting his war exploits. Keller wrote that anti-war doves would still support the man they remembered for "throwing his war ribbons onto the steps of the Capitol." When pressed about what happened to his medals, Kerry now says the medals he threw away were not his and that his are displayed in his Senate office. Retired General George S. Patton III would later angrily charge that Kerry’s actions had "given aid and comfort to the enemy."
Supremely arrogant and demonstrably contemptuous of the voting public, Kerry nevertheless regularly touts his military experience during his presidential run. But he forfeited the right to do that 30 years ago. Come to think of it, if he continues to posture as a war hero, he’ll lose the friendship of Ramsey Clark, Angela Davis, and the Daily World.
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Gunslinger
Interesting read, and it does not paint a pretty picture.
Has anyone else ever heard that a bunch of the vets in the vets against the war where really not vets? I heard that somewhere. Is it true?
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3581838982&category=29346
the guy voted FOR the Iraq war, just another 20/20 hindsight expert.. now and then...
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every group has its ****ing morons, the far right and the far left. Those who through **** on your father were not the vets against the war. just morons.
Im wondering how long it will take before bush trys to get the draft going again after he is reelected.