Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Thrawn on January 22, 2004, 05:38:53 PM
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"Raid brings widespread condemnation
Mike Blanchfield
CanWest News Service
Wednesday, January 21, 2004
OTTAWA - A Liberal senator has joined the chorus of opposition critics who have denounced RCMP raids on the home and office of an Ottawa Citizen reporter and compared them to the police-state actions of the former Soviet Union.
“Juliet O’Neill is a solid journalist who was simply trying to shed more light on a complex story,” Senator Jim Munson, a former television broadcaster and chief spokesman for former prime minister Jean Chretien, said Wednesday.
“I am very concerned that the rights of journalists may be trampled.”
Munson, who worked as a television journalist for more than 25 years, was appointed to the Senate last month shortly before Chretien stepped down.
Chretien’s successor was as surprised as anyone at the RCMP raids, according to a spokesman, but Prime Minister Paul Martin did not add his voice to the widespread condemnation of the police investigation into leaks in the Maher Arar case.
"A lot of people seem to think this is the beginning of something wider to intimidate journalists and all that. I can tell you that that is certainly not the intention or the desire in any way, shape or form of the prime minister," Mario Lague, Martin's chief spokesman, said Wednesday.
Martin was on his way to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, and unavailable for comment Wednesday. Lague said the Prime Minister's Office found out about the raids through media reports.
Martin's aides moved swiftly to distance the prime minister from any suggestion that he was connected to the raids, which have sparked outrage among opposition politicians and lawyers.
Martin has said he wants to get to the bottom of a series of leaks in the case of Arar, the Syrian-born Canadian who was deported by U.S. authorities to his native country because they suspected he was an al-Qaida terrorist. Arar, who was tortured in Syria, strongly denies the allegations and has launched a lawsuit against the U.S. government to clear his name.
Opposition critics condemned the raids in response to a November story O’Neill wrote on what the federal government knew about Arar and his deportation.
O’Neill, who witnessed the collapse of the Soviet Union as a foreign correspondent in Moscow in 1989, was subjected to the same sort of heavy-handed police-state tactics that marked decades of Communist rule, critics charged.
“It doesn’t seem like the Canada my dad fought for,” said Grant Hill, the acting leader of the official Opposition.
“It seems a little bit like another northern country that not so long ago had a police state. We’re talking about the U.S.S.R. That’s the sort of thing I would expect from a police state.”
Stephen Harper, the former opposition leader now running for the Conservative Party leadership, condemned the raids as dangerous and disturbing.
“I think this whole incident is disturbing. I think this whole desire to suppress information, rather than have a public inquiry and get to the bottom of it, is dangerous,” said Harper.
New Democratic Party Leader Jack Layton said he had no doubt the raids were intended to send a chill through the journalistic community.
“It’s an abomination, the ultimate transgression,” Layton said. “It’s like something out of Kafka.
“This puts a chill on political discussion. It’s outrageous, appalling, a body blow to democracy. It’s nothing more than the politics of fear.”
Former Progressive Conservative leader Peter MacKay said he had serious questions about the tactics used by the RCMP.
“The RCMP’s tactics seem excessive in light of the facts as currently known. I would suggest a different approach would have been sufficient and less intimidating,” said MacKay, who is also a former Crown prosecutor.
Liberal MP John Bryden, a former journalist, acknowledged that the RCMP have a duty to protect classified information, but said the use of search warrants to forcibly track down documents should only be used when public safety is at risk.
"I'm very uncomfortable when any journalist is raided for documents," said Bryden, arguing that journalists and MPs often have similar roles searching for information about the government or police and security service activities.
NDP MP Svend Robinson said the police raid underscores the need for an inquiry into the role of the RCMP in Arar's deportation.
"This appears to be an attempt to silence and muzzle the journalists that are asking questions that reinforce the need for an independent public inquiry," said Robinson. "Journalists are digging at information that could be embarrassing to the RCMP. It's potentially a pretty serious abuse of police power if it's an attempt to muzzle and silence them."
Liberal MP Derek Lee, however, chair of the Commons sub-committee on national security in the last session of Parliament, said journalists have no unique privileges under the law.
"While we all have a special place in our heart for journalists, there actually is no special protection for journalists when it comes to dealing with classified information," he said, adding the Mounties were likely searching O'Neill's home and office in an attempt to identify the person who leaked the information.
"If they have a warrant, they have convinced a judge that there has been an offence committed and that there is a chain of evidence and someone is responsible, so they could get a search warrant to follow that stuff through," said Lee, also a lawyer.
(Ottawa Citizen with files from Mark Kennedy in Zurich and Tim Naumetz in Ottawa.)"
http://www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id=1EC02A65-411A-48A8-9EDD-D648B1A299F3
I have never been more ashamed to be a Canadian.
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it doesnt say why the raids happened...
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Originally posted by vorticon
it doesnt say why the raids happened...
She wrote an article that apparently had classified information in. The RCMP want to know who her source is.
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classified info is classified info...just cause your a journalist doesnt mean you can print it...and how are they "supposed" to find that sort of info out...ask her nicely:lol
didnt say they had a search warrant...that could be the problem (any really relevant info such as WHY and the search warrent issue seems to be lost in a sea of comparing it to the USSR...luckily the CBC still tries to make that sort of info available)
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This is a raid! Against the wall and spread'em!
(http://host.digitalfaucet.com/funky/qq1072776124.jpg)
Oh, wait a minute. This is a Canadian case. Ok, then, this calls for a different law enforcement officer.
(http://host.digitalfaucet.com/funky/qq1072776333.jpg)
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GoFaster..are you trying to get this girl in every post now. :)
Thrawn...nothing new in the whole police state thing. About two or three years ago the RCMP clandestinley raided a financial service provider in the Turks and Caicos Islands. They flew in, dressed up in dark clothes and simply broke into the offices. They copied documents and hard-drives and then took them back to Canada.
We even suspected they raided our offices and as a result spent alot of money on a new fancy alarm system.
Beware of Canada.
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Oh wait... I get it... It is a "police state" when the government attacks liberals but when they attack the rights of say... gun owners or say bigots... then it is time for the government to step in and do something?
can't have it both ways... big govenment tramples everyones freedom... not just the freedoms that you don't care about or are jealous about.
lazs
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Wow,so for once we can bash Canada now? With the hel pof Canadians? Rawk on!
"Don't kick the baby..." Aieeee
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Is that another of Mr Black's girlfriends?
Ravs
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Curval
There was not one soldier of any kind to repell the cunucks? Even a cook?
:)
If that is true it is HELLA funny, but not in a good way..,
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From what I understand of Martin, things are only gonna get worse. North America is just going to continue this slide towards total governmental control over our lives.
Any freedoms or rights we have are just an illusion, because they can be revoked, or denied, at the whim of any government in power.
If the governments took all our rights away at once they would have hell to pay, but by doing it ever so slowly we just ben dover and ask for more vaseline.
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Isnt it time for Quebec to claim souvernity yet again?
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heheh.
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Ping From what I understand of Martin, things are only gonna get worse
Nothing to do with Martin or any single individual. Nothing would change if the prevailing opposition took power.
It's just a general trend caused by shift in public worldview about the role of the state - which has been going on for 150 years.
miko
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If you will look at other posts I have made about Politicians, you will see that I hold none of the others in any better regard.
It seems to be that we hope for one of lesser corruption to take office.
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Ping: If you will look at other posts I have made about Politicians, you will see that I hold none of the others in any better regard.
It seems to be that we hope for one of lesser corruption to take office.
It's not politicians - it's the puiblic and the prevailing philosophical opinion/theories it subscribes to. We elect politicians who are in compliance with such philosophies.
It's not a fluke or a man or a party. It's the society that is seriously afflicted by the wrong ideas.
If you get a totally honest and non-selfish non-corrupt politicians who complies with those ideas - and you can get no other, it will be not better but worse since he will be just so much more efficient in moving government towards more socialism. And so much more credible.
Hitler was very honest, brave an unselfish - a model for a politician. Somehow I believe the germans would have been better off with a scumbag who would only had cared about his pockets.
Care to read a book that would clear a lot of questions (that you may never thought you had) on why and how things gott to be the way they are in the last 150 years and why it was inevitable over the last 80 years? I could recomment one.
I do not think reading it will land you in canadian jail or a re-education camp - at least not for a few years yet. ;)
miko
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While it is true that it is the public that elects these officials, how many times has it happened that once in office they enact new laws or legislation that were in no way advertised beforehand.
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Originally posted by Curval
GoFaster..are you trying to get this girl in every post now.
Yes, I guess I've been bad and need some "correcting".
(http://www.lollipoplingerie.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/RIC3/3278.jpg)
Somebody stop me! I'm out of control!
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Originally posted by gofaster
Somebody stop me! I'm out of control!
That's ok. Please continue.
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Ping: While it is true that it is the public that elects these officials, how many times has it happened that once in office they enact new laws or legislation that were in no way advertised beforehand.
I know what you mean.
Clinton was elected as a "big government" tax-and-spend democrat but under his administration the growth of state expenditures for the first time in decades lagged the overall growth of the economy - in effect reducing the government in relative, if not absolute terms. He signed the welfare reform and free trade agreement!
While the republican limited-government pro-trade anti-welfare Bush enacted record growth of government spending (not including military or securiy-related expences), limited trade, introduced subcidies, signed a huge welfare package (drug benefit) and did not veto a bill that directly violates the sacred Free Speech amendmant. Did not vetoe a single bill ever yet.
But in the genedal scheme of things the difference between them is very small. Each one increased the government or laid foundation for the future increases.
miko
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Miko,
First you admire Stalin for his "politics". Now you praise Hitler as a brave, honest man and unselfish. Is there ANY mass murderer you DON'T like / admire????? Next I assume it will be idi amin.
I'm glad that none of those papers were items that could be used to defend themselves with or the charges would have been MUCH more severe. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Maverick
I'm glad that none of those papers were items that could be used to defend themselves with or the charges would have been MUCH more severe. :rolleyes:
What do you mean?
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When I visited Canada the customs folks told me the worst thing I could do was to have something that could be used to defend myself with.
Some RV friends of mine visited Canada last year and the customs inspector asked them repeatedly what they brought to defend themselves with. He asked at least 10 timesand they told him each time they did not have any firearms in their RV. He finally dropped it when they pointed to their little dog.
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Ah, I see.
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leaking classified information to anyone is spying...no matter how useless it is...it doesnt matter wether its north korea, china, or a journalist...in fact the leaking of classified information to a journalist is worse because ANY spy from any country can pick it up...
but that doesnt give police the right to
a) invade a home mafia style
b) invade a home without a warrant
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Originally posted by Maverick
When I visited Canada the customs folks told me the worst thing I could do was to have something that could be used to defend myself with.
Some RV friends of mine visited Canada last year and the customs inspector asked them repeatedly what they brought to defend themselves with. He asked at least 10 timesand they told him each time they did not have any firearms in their RV. He finally dropped it when they pointed to their little dog.
Everytime I cross into the US they ask me if I brought my gun along, I tell them "No" and away I go. Not a big deal..
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Originally posted by vorticon
leaking classified information to anyone is spying...no matter how useless it is...it doesnt matter wether its north korea, china, or a journalist...in fact the leaking of classified information to a journalist is worse because ANY spy from any country can pick it up...
but that doesnt give police the right to
a) invade a home mafia style
b) invade a home without a warrant
I don't think you understand the roll "freedom of the press" in a liberal democratic society. The journalists provide us with information about the government, sometimes it's information the government would prefer us not to have. This is so we, the citizens, can make informed decisions regarding our government, who to vote for etc.
When the state police start invading the homes and journalists to ascertain who a source is, the chances of sources risking exposure to blow the whistle on goverment goes down. And the public has less information to make informed decisions.
The problem is with the new (post 9/11) security laws the RCMP can say "national security" to get a warrent for just about anything.
And in this specific case there is the question about what exactly was the roll the RCMP played in the US deporation of Arar to Syria.
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i dont think the freedom of the press covers classified information...and if theres a leak somewhere in the rcmp/csis then it must be found and plugged...
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RCMP/CSIS fugged up on the Arar case....they gave the americans the info about Arar....
Americans fugged up by sending him back to SYRIA knowing they would Torture him(known fact).....yet he had a CANADIAN passport....it was his RIGHT to be sent back here...which the americans chose to ignore......AMERICANS violated international law....knowingly....they completely ignored Canada's Soveriegnty and the Right of one of its Citizen.
now the RCMP is just tryin to cover its bases by pluggin the holes....i.e....what did CSIS/Rcmp give to the Americans as info:aok
not so damn complicated Thrawn....