Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: fscott on December 26, 2000, 11:41:00 PM
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Seems this to be the #1 issue at this point. I have a pretty hfty rig, 933mhz + Gefarce2, but still get the slowdown near the battlegroup, especially when the ack is a'flyin. Pyro, any chance that the ack can be tweaked?
fscott
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I have a lower end system......
FR was at 9 while taking off and landing on the carrier.
Celeron 500
192mb RAM
16meg Voodoo card
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Whoa dude, guess I now know where to take you next time your on my six. I'll be pulling 30fps while you are draggin along at 9. I guess that is the real issue. Quite a disadvantage when it comes to dogfights if your screen updates 9 times a sec.
fscott
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Strange, I am not getting any noticable slowdown with an 800 AMD and Prophet GeForce DDR.
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This wimpy Celeron 366, 64 MB ram, ATI xpert 128 (16MB) hasn't lost any FPS in normal operations. I'm getting around 15 - 25 around the carrier, vs 40 to 50 in planes.
It seems some systems take a bigger hit than others.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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No change here in FPS..
PIII 550 TNT2 Pro.. and it just rocks.
Dog out..
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Question....
What is the big deal about 30 Fps framerates ?
Now NTSC Video (television) is 30 frames per second (60 interlaced fields per second).
It looks fine.
Past a certain point the frame rate for TV would be pointless to increase because you would see no difference due to Human optics.
I don't get anything near 30 fps (more like 20.. max)
Is here really a VISUAL difference between 35-40-50 etc. ?
Regards,
Snoopi
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Simple test to make your own conclusion. Download 3DMark2000 and run the tests at different resolutions so that you will get varying fps. Some people will see a noticeable difference between 30fps and 80fps, I know I do. More advanced humans may even detect differences between 80fps and 90fps. I know I do.
The old myth that the human eye cannot detect beyond yadda yadda yadda yadda is just that, a myth. Many can detect it. I know I do.
fscott
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athlon K7 700Mhz, 128 RAM, Geforce2 MX here.
Get average 30-40 FPS, some 10-20 less than I used to have...but near the fleet (specially when gunning for the AA guns, and in PT boats near a combat zone) it drops to 7-12 FPS.
Yups, I think that something has to be done with the framerates...but I'm not worried as in 1.03 something very similar happened and was promptly fixed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Running almost the same system RAM, and my framerate has stayed the same.
Athlon 700
196mb ram
Asus K7M mobo
Geforce 256 SDR
DirectX 7.0a
Maybe you should try some older drivers or something. I'm still getting 55-60 fps. Slows down around smoke, but no worse than usual.
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/logo.gif)
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cii 566 here, geforce 1, 128mb ram. Frame rates have dropped to half what they used to be.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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Hi all!
Ok not the biggest System, but i think the problem is not the battlegroud itself, but more the action around.
When trying offline to land, i have well, at least enough FR to land without probs...
But when many cons are near online all the flak in the air and then ships and tons of pt-boats and stuff it becoming really hard to land on a cv... not even talking about shooting someone (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
So I think online there is mostly just too much drawn at once...
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CU
Purzel
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"Find the enemy and shoot him down, everything else is nonsense!"
M. von Richthofen
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Very odd. I wonder if the FR issue is a combination of GeForce + DX8?
I am still running DX7.(something)a with an old ATI RAGE MAXX (well, old as in at least 2 generations behind the current crop of cards) and I am getting between 24 and 50 FR around the fleets.
The CPU is a 600Mhz PIII (Coppermine).
Heck,...I remember, in one of the battles, about 14 fighters, 6 PT boats, 2 CV's, flak everywhere and I took off with a FR of 26 from the CV and did a fly over of the battle.
The worst FR noted was 16.
How many of you GeForce users are also using DX8? We may find a pattern here.
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net
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I am using directx8, and have frame rate problems.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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I am running dx8, system specs posted above (GeForce I DDR card), so I don't think that is it.
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Ok, take it a step further;
1) Which model of GeForce?
2) What video driver version?
3) What DX version?
There has to be some commonality here. Why would my dog vid card outperform a card that is supposed to be significantly faster?
AH does not talk directly to video cards, so I have to surmise there is a layer between AH and the hardware that is, potentially, causing problems,....and I think with enough information we may find out what it is.
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net
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Athlon 700 "Classic"
256mb of PC133 RAM
GeForce2 GTS
SoundBlaster Live! Platinum
Windows 98SE
DirectX 8
I get a slight slowdown near the fleets, but nothing that approaches a playability issue.
I wonder why we're getting such divergent behaviors?
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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What's interesting is that my FR has improved around smoke. Has the modeling of smoke been changed?
Sour
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Okay, revised specs:
Athlon Thunderbird 800.
256mb Ram
Guillemot Prophet I DDR. NVidia drivers version 4.12.01.0390.
DirectX 8.
Didn't notice frame rate hits that affected playability last night near carrier groups. The times I looked, it was around 30fps.
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Originally posted by bloom25:
This wimpy Celeron 366, 64 MB ram, ATI xpert 128 (16MB) hasn't lost any FPS in normal operations. I'm getting around 15 - 25 around the carrier, vs 40 to 50 in planes.
It seems some systems take a bigger hit than others.
Bloom!! I am using the celery 366 as well however, at 550 mhz, you tried it?
AKskurj
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FScott:
I'd love to even get close to 30fps.... nevermind 60 or 90. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
That's why I asked. I have no way of testing.
What I'm really interested in is:
Does a frame rate OVER 30 fps help gunnery, ACM etc. ?
At what point does the framerate (with same resolution) become a "My Box is Faster" trip ?
[This message has been edited by Snoopi (edited 12-27-2000).]
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Ok I got a PII 350 with 32MB TNT2 (Couger) card. I am drooping to 4-9 fps around the CV and what not and only get about 20 around other planes. Is there a setting I can play with to try and tweek it?
Booky
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Snoopi's right ya'know.. the human eye can only see 35 frames per second.. Tho I bet Jackie Chan can see 50 fps
10Bears
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Actually the human visual system can see 60-70 "fps"
Thats why a monitor with a refresh rate below 70 looks like its shimmering.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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Download 3DMark2000 and run the tests at different resolutions so that you will get varying fps.
Thats a excellent utility. It showed me just how bad my system sucks. I scored 3700 in it. Blauuk.
Celery 550 O/C to 800
128meg PC133 RAM
VoodooV5500 64meg video
My friend built a system, PIII 833 O/C to 930+ with a Geforce card and scored 6800 with 3DMArk2000! Thats just so Golly-geen fast you have to see it. CF2 full everything is as smooth as frog hair. Really fekin nice. (yes, Im getting one build in January.
Still, my framerate IMPROVED 1.05, but thats after a fresh format, new drivers (DirectX8 as well) plus chipset drivers and BIOS flash. I normally see 30+ fps always, 40+ over water.
Heavy fleet action, not sure, but heavy smoke is 12-18.
This version is awesome.
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There's a lot more to frame rate then system speed and video prowess. Hard drive space, defrag status, RAM speed, controller types, and yes, even your connection speed.
There is a way to boot directly into AH, I know. One of my squaddies (13th T.F.W. on F4) had to do this with his 200 MMX system. You might still be able to find the methodology over on falcon40.com, though Frugal is updating the site even as I write this. The file is F4TWK.zip and explains the method very well (though you will have edit the batch file included with the zip). I DO NOT recommend this unless you are very comfortable with editing Windows configuration. However, if you do it right you will see as much as an 80% increase in frame rates.
If you are still using an old 8-bit joystick card (whether it is in an ISA slot, built into the MB, or not), you are losing frames.
Smaller increases in performance can be ahieved simply by reducing the resource load on your system. Free up some disk space, load more RAM, defrag, and switch to USB controllers.
GeForce? I'm holding out for VooDoo 5.
Voss 13th T.A.S.
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Originally posted by Voss:
GeForce? I'm holding out for VooDoo 5.
Voss 13th T.A.S.[/B]
I have one ready to pull out and sell.
Lemme know.
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i have the following sys
P3 650e @ 866
hercules Prophet II 64 meg DDR
nvidia reff drivers 6.31
DX7a.
general FPS same as 1.04 5
and im getting 70 fps lookin at CV groups
all at 1280 32 bit res.
whels
Originally posted by fscott:
Seems this to be the #1 issue at this point. I have a pretty hfty rig, 933mhz + Gefarce2, but still get the slowdown near the battlegroup, especially when the ack is a'flyin. Pyro, any chance that the ack can be tweaked?
fscott
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There are a lot of factors in video imagery.
I'm from a TV/Film background and can only half guess about the PC video equivalents, but as I understand things:
NTSC Video (non-Euro TV) is 29.97 frames (different images) per second.
Each frame is made up of 2 fields.
Each field displays every 2nd scan line on the video display. (odd and even)
In other words you actually see the same "picture" twice for each frame. (visually 60 images per second)
Film is shot at 24 fps.
Film is normally played back at 48 fps to minimize image flicker. (each different image is shown twice)
From this knowledge you could assume that 48-60 fps on a PC would be the lowest optimum speed.
In REAL WORLD TESTS, the human eye can detect differences in frame rate up to 45-70fps (depending on the test subject).
The majority of test subjects being capable of seeing visual differences up to 60fps.
I'm talking sustained fps.
Most computers can's sustain a frame rate above a certain speed.
It varies from moment to moment.
Even though the AVERAGE may be 70fps for a 1 second time sample, it could have dropped as low as 10fps for a moment.
This would be noticeable to the human eye and would lead you to believe that 70 fps was not fast enough.
In reality, 70 SUSTAINED FPS is the max people really need for image quality.
(60 fps for us normal people)
BUT I'm not wondering about nice visual FPS.
I'm more curious about at what point does you ACM/SA/GUNNERY suffer ?
Regards,
Snoopi
P.S.
Hey 10bears ! How are things?
Happy New Year All !
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fscott: "more advanced humans" ROFLMAO
My frame rate seems the same. 3DFX 5500
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The reason why TV can get awa with 24fps is that TV cameras record movement, so the picture is blurry when you pause it. Computers on the other hand, must draw each frame seperately, giving no blur when paused. While this increases image quality, it also means that the frame rate has to be higher in order to see a smooth picture.
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Rendar
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I have a P350, TNT2 32meg, 128 RAM and I got:
24 when around land
10 when facin cloulds or Flak
2 on CV environment when tracers flying.
5 on CV at rest
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There is no substitute for horsepower (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Buy a big cpu!
Ice
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IMO, they have been doing something about frame rates. They've been throttling AH's eye candy, imo, for a year to keep fps manageable for folks with low PII's. and in this day of the 1gh plus cpu's.
This sim is going to grow and we've got to also with out hardware. We can't expect to keep milking these PII 266/333's with Voodoo II cards while the same time hold AH from leaping forward.
Start the pattern; memory, CPU, vid card, mother board, cooling fan, overclock; repeat- faster memory, faster cpu, honkin vid card, better mother board.........
-Westy
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Athalon 800 voodoo3 3000
absolute 0 Fr drop no matter what.
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Very true Rendar ! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
You work in film ?
Most people don't realize that.
Even some engineers I used to work with, didn't.
I had to understand it because I did 3D animation and had had to deal with both video and film formats in differing formats like PAL, SECAM, 16mm and conversion between them. Yuck...
Like I said 24 fps and 30 fps is not good enough. That's why they repeat FILM frames for a total 48 fps and video has 60 images per second (sort of).
But the real world test I mentioned was using computers to test the frame rate with 3D images.
No blur.. not even 3d "hardware blur" PC card stuff.
Over 70 SUSTAINED fps, people didn't notice the difference.
The "sustained part" is the big trick.
The fps counter may show 65fps but can drop a lot lower without registering because the fps shown is an average for the sampling duration. That drop is very noticable.
Regards,
Snoopi