Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: simshell on January 26, 2004, 04:49:33 PM
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i think this idea has been done before but im going to do bring it up
instead of having the fuel at fields why not make it so the fuel level at bases is controlled by the factory
so if the factory was bombed to 50% it would make the bases in the zone at only 50% fuel
to make sure the factory is not just milked
when the factory is closer to a enemy field it is held by that country
and when the factory is taken bye the enemy
the side without factory now would only have 50% fuel at its bases in that zone
this would turn those fuel porker typhoons P51's into bombers having to fly behide enemy lines to hit factorys and this would make it harder for them
because sense there flying slow bombers fighters now would be able to try to stop them before they got to there target
unlike the typhoons and P51s thats so hard to stop from porking
to fixe low level bombers you could add tons of ack to ensure even a lancaster would not live at the factory
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no. not good. think about it longer. a jabo-kazi is even harder to stop than buffs. those "fuel factories" would be constantly porked 24/7.
i think a simple solution other than increasing fuel bunker hardness would be to reduce the fuel burn modifier. the current modifier has been based on small maps with overall closer bases. reducing the fuel burn would still allow someone with 25% a decent flight time. and might even lessen the overall fuel porking.
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Originally posted by simshell
to make sure the factory is not just milked
when the factory is closer to a enemy field it is held by that country
ha
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trying to pork factorys with jabos wont do almost anything bombers are way better for this and those jabos would turn into bombers
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and fuel is already geting porked 24/7 anyway only its at bases
you could allways have more then 1 factory in a zone to make harder for them
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and it would put more BOMBERS INTO THE AIR! and give them something to do
besides trying to hit hangers
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Originally posted by simshell
and fuel is already geting porked 24/7 anyway only its at bases
you could allways have more then 1 factory in a zone to make harder for them
you're talking about affecting all bases *within* a zone!! not just the front line bases. there's a difference. besides not all maps have zones (yet, if ever).
b17 6-1k eggs *3 =18k worth of eggs which is basiaclly over kill anyway.
2 p-47d30 jabokazi's = approx 6k (more if straffing).
or even a flight of 2 a-20's = 8k... great 2 dweebs in havoc-kazi's can affecting the whooooooole zone in a fairly short amount of time.
considering ftr speed vs buff speed, a jabo-kazi could make 4 to 6 runs in the same amount of time buffs could do one (esp if the buffs rtb).
there are plenty more willing jabo-kazi's than there are buffers.
let's not even go into the coding involved to track who the depot belongs to.
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Originally posted by simshell
and it would put more BOMBERS INTO THE AIR! and give them something to do
besides trying to hit hangers
you still have many things to do. you can still bomb strat targets and have an effect. no one says you have to hit hangars. you can level the town.
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Bad Idea. The first thing someone would do in a map is to pork the fuel. The first people to do this would win the map in **HOURS**. It would completely screw over everyone else.
Not only that, but there would be constant flights to pork the fuel. One side would have 125 fuel everywhere, the others 25 everywhere.
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Originally posted by Shane
you still have many things to do. you can still bomb strat targets and have an effect. no one says you have to hit hangars. you can level the town.
yes i know that
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How about this:
Use the fuel factory idea, but make it a processing plant.
Each field has a certain amount of reserves (in tanks) at the base and each plane/vehicle originating from that base uses a certain amount of fuel.
Now, when the fuel processing plant goes down (or has reduced capacity) then that would affect the available supply at any base. At first, fuel would be pulled from the tanks, but eventually that reserver would start to be used up.
Just an idea...if you really wanted to get more strategic elements involved.
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25% is plenty of fuel for..... pee 51's.. that is the fuel "strat" in AH.
Soo.... best to pretend that you have allways admired peee 51's..
once the factorys or fuel cans or whatever other gamey fuel "strat" feature is milkruned/suicided into and killed by the talentless....
everyone can fly....
peeeee 51's
lazs
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Better yet
Planes/gvs supplied by fuel at fields.
Fuel at field goes down. Stays down for X amount of time.
Fuel at fields is supplied by several different fuel depots (lets say 2)
Killing one depot has little to no effect on resupply to base. Killing both has the effect of fuel staying down for XX amount of time. Provided nobody manually resupplies
Fuel at Depots is supplied by fuel factories (Again more then 1)
Now if Fuel depots are porked and fuel factories are porked then fuel at effected feild/s says down for XXX Time and so on and so forth.
Also the farther up the chain you go the more heavily defended by AAA they should be so that by the time you reach a factory, you should be able to walk on the amount of Flat that is thrown up.
No bombing raid on a major factory or HQ should be a cakewalk.
Same thing should hold true for everything else, Ammo, Troops, Dar etc.
Kinda like a pyramid scheme.. but different. :)
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Here's an idea.
Fuel Depo has to be completely destroyed before any field in that zone can have it's fuel reduced below 125%.
If the fuel depo is at 98% destroyed it doesn't matter how much you bomb the field fuel it doesn't do any good.
Once the fuel depo is COMPLETELY destroyed then bombing the fuel at the bases in that zone has an effect on that field.
Strat guys have more targets, but it takes more work to reduce the fuel levels at the fields.
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Here's an idea.
Fuel Depo has to be completely destroyed before any field in that zone can have it's fuel reduced below 125%.
If the fuel depo is at 98% destroyed it doesn't matter how much you bomb the field fuel it doesn't do any good.
Once the fuel depo is COMPLETELY destroyed then bombing the fuel at the bases in that zone has an effect on that field.
Strat guys have more targets, but it takes more work to reduce the fuel levels at the fields.
Hmm somthing along this lines has potential. Not sure if i like the all or nothing thing. But factories could change how much is available i.e. Factory totaly down (25% min) Factory full up. 100% no drop tanks if fuel at field is destroyed, and ramp inbtween.
HiTech
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yes this is as good as an idea that's been expressed so far.
also... the fuel mod is 2.0 and this was based on the earlier smaller smaps, right? proportions and all that.
would it be possible to reduce the fuel mod to say 1.5 or even 1.0 on the bigger maps?
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Not realy smaller maps shane , but normal flight times. We still want to have planes range be an effect. Large maps don't realy change how far you fly. With a 1.0 no one would ever take off with full fuel in lots of planes.
HiTech
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not many do, anyway, many take 50/75+dt's. only time someone might take 100% are planes w/o DT's. just my casual observation. how about an online poll?
but a mod of 1.5-1.75 wouldn't cause as much frustration with the fuel porking seen on some of the bigger maps. it'd give people upping a little increase in flight time. a b-17 could up with 25% and the fuel involved with those 3 planes would fill up how many fighter tanks to max?
the fuel mod would be easier to affect with AH1, while the above idea would be better for AH2... ???
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Originally posted by Vipermann
Here's an idea.
Fuel Depo has to be completely destroyed before any field in that zone can have it's fuel reduced below 125%.
If the fuel depo is at 98% destroyed it doesn't matter how much you bomb the field fuel it doesn't do any good.
Once the fuel depo is COMPLETELY destroyed then bombing the fuel at the bases in that zone has an effect on that field.
Strat guys have more targets, but it takes more work to reduce the fuel levels at the fields.
i like this idea alot but you dont understand how hard it is to copmletely destroyed a factory to 100% me and a other player had to milk a factory with lancasters then had to get a20s and blow everthing up and this is hard we were able to get it to 5% and left
how about this if the factory is 75% up then you can only take the fuel at base s to 100% and if the factory is at 50% then you can pork bases to 75 and if the factory is at 25 then you can pork the bases to 50 and if the factory goes to under 10 then you can pork the bases to 25%
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Sounds like a great idea HT but you may not have to go that far. If the fuel factory is 75% then the lowest amount of fuel available at the fields could also = 75% etc...
Or just add more fuel tanks, fuel mod at x1, make it easier to resupply fuel and reduce fuel rebuild times. :p
ADDED EDITORIAL ON SUICIDE
The game is where it's at because the "rules" make suicidal attacks a valid tactic. While these "rules" worked well in the beginning, and in past games, but the growth of the player base has changed the nature of the main. The emotional confrontation about strat vs. furballers divides the players between those who accept suicide tactics as part of the game, and those who reject it based on the unbalanced impact it has on them. I don’t think anyone on either side of the issue cares if a player wants to kill himself over and over. All that matters is having fun.
Despite all the rhetoric that may arise from suggesting the re-design of the strategic parameters of the game there is a way to restore balance. Not only in terms of game play but also with those in the community who are entrenched in one side or the other.
IMHO the smart thing to do would be to change the game's rules to eliminate the reason for the emotional confrontation and do away with the split in the player base. Again IMO moving the reset trigger away from the airfields to the factories and cities will do just that by shifting the direction of the "strat" players away from porking airfields but not eliminate it completely.
The key is not to please one group over the other, but to make both of them happy. The strat player will still have value in base capture to get closer to the enemies factories and cities and to create some space between the enemy and his. I won't go into details but there have been a number of good proposals in the past.
Some have advocated multiple arenas. Multiple arenas will only validate the split within the community. We all can imagine the banter on the board if this happens:
“Those suicide gang bangers in the main vs. the suicide furballers in that other arena.”
My 2 cents......
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its not making porking harder im trying to make
but its making the factorys have more of a inpact on the game
if they could not pork fields because of factorys they would have to bomb factorys or they could do nothing to fields when it comes to fuel
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Dweeb plane factory. enough said.
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HiTech, I like your idea, what can we do to make it so? I like to fly La-5's and Typh's. Fuel at 25% is a real big problem. I would love to see a fix to this. Where do I send the check? While I am on the subject of change, can I bring up the all players on a vox freq being a diffrent color again. I know that this is an option in AH2 but can you throw it into AH1? Thanks for your time..
SkipNutz
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only problem with the idea of making fuel harder to pork is it will do nothing to aleviate another problem.
That is the mass hoarding steamroller.
Making it harder to pork a feild will effectively take away the only effective defence against the billion pilot hoards that steamroll everything in sight. marching from base to base with such overwhelming numbersGreat fun if your on the giving end of the steamroll. Kills come real easy when you outnumber your opponent 10-1 and all your gotta do is make sure ack is down then vulch your little hearts out. But being on the receiving end gets old..REAL fast.
The steamrollers rarely pork feilds though. They dont have to. Again Kills come real easy when you outnumber your opponent 10-1 and all your gotta do is make sure ack is down then vulch your little hearts out.
Now Im sure arguements will be made with something along the lines up "well why dont you just up more pilots to fight them."
Not always possable. You can only up with as many people as are online in your country.
Now Im using the rooks as an example but all countries do it from time to time
I remember once a few weeks ago Rooks had more pilots on them Bish and knits combined. In fact I seem to remember at one point there were actually double the amount of rooks as there were knits and bish combined.
Those kinda odds make a numbers defence next to impossible.
As it stands right now The best and only way to really stop or at least slow an advance like that is to pork the feild/s the hoards are upping from.
Hey Im a strat guy. Idealy I'd rather take a base as intact as possable. But if my country is being attacked then I'm going to do whatever it takes to protect my country. And if that means more often then not that I haveta pork your feild then thats the way it is. And hey you an always resupply it. only takes a few runs to bring gas back up to a tolerable level.
You wanna make feilds harder to pork hey fine. but if we're gonna do that then we haveto make them also ALOT harder to capture. Say 6 times as many troops within a certain timespan as opposed to 1 load.
Make the buildings in the towns tougher by 4
Also make feild ack tougher and more accurate or at least have alot more of it.
As it stands now an undefended feild can be taken with 3 pilots in one run.
Coarse there are other options.
We could take a page or two out of the AW book and limit the amount of planes that can take off in any one zone at any given time.
Orrrr
we could create a fighter town for both aircraft and GVs in the center of every map with uncapturable/ unporkable basesand just leave the rest as it is now. then everyone gets to do whatever they want to do and never have to leave the MA.
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the aw zone limit was due to internet/coding constraints; it was in no way in place for gameplay limitations... we've progressed beyond the need for that.
just sayin'
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Is there a problem?
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figuring out how people will react to changes is allways difficult but... the timid group we have now will probly just huddle up more and get even more gamey. Hope I'm wrong.
lazs
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I fully understand how the zone limit worked.
But it was though unintentional a step in the direction of realism.
We keep reading on the boards how this plane or GV could or couldnt do this or that in real life.
Well in real life bases still to this day only can only support and put up so many aircraft at any given time. Planes, Fuel,ammo, parts, and the groundcrew needed to fuel, re-arm and maintain planes is not limitless at any base or airport even.
Not to mention food, beer,bartenders, And Sheep availability.
Originally posted by Shane
the aw zone limit was due to internet/coding constraints; it was in no way in place for gameplay limitations... we've progressed beyond the need for that.
just sayin'