Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: rod367th on January 28, 2004, 01:24:00 AM
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La7 came out after tempest and made in less numbers. But for some reason la7 not perked and tempest is. also la-7 had 600 rounds cannon with 3 gun option but only 375 with 3 gun option where ever built.
Was never big on la-7 whines but if tempest perked why shouldn't la-7 since it was out in smaller numbers and not flying untill early spring 44?
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I agree fully rod, 1 thing though, 600rds? why we only get 450? La7 is a mystery to me, why its not perkd some amazes me completely.:confused:
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Perks work to control overusage of any particular plane, with no regards to history, numbers, weapons, etc.
Having said that, I *think* (I'm lazy to check the facts, so I talk only based on my personal MA perspective ;)) La-7 and Spit IX have long and wide earned merits to receive a low value perk "a la" Chog ;). Arguably N1K2 too.
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Originally posted by rod367th
La7 came out after tempest and made in less numbers. But for some reason la7 not perked and tempest is. also la-7 had 600 rounds cannon with 3 gun option but only 375 with 3 gun option where ever built.
Was never big on la-7 whines but if tempest perked why shouldn't la-7 since it was out in smaller numbers and not flying untill early spring 44?
The 3 cannon version did not have 600 rounds it had a maximum capacity of 150 rnds per gun and very often only carried 120 rnds per gun.
As indeed the two cannon (max capacity 200 rnds per gun) very often carried 170 rnds per gun.
The first (2 cannon) La7's saw action in July 44 (but the bulk were introduced in Sept) which seems to be about the same time or slightly earlier than Tempests were being moved over to Northern France/Belgium.
Over 5000 La7's were built and over 3500 saw action albeit that a very small number of the 3 cannon variant saw action.
I would agree that the 2 cannon version is much more representative yet rarely used. There would be a good arguement for perking the 3 cannon version (as the Chog is perked) if the two variants could be split. La7(44) & La7(45)
Even so the la7 is still not the most popular ride in the game and whilst its ability to disengage and run away annoys folk it does not over balance it either IMO.
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I agree that the La7 should be a low point perk plane. Maybe a little more then F4u-c
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Well if the la7 MUST be perked, by all means perk the 3 gun version.
I prefer the 2 20mm shvaks anyway.
As to why the tempest is perked, try.
A late war release
B speed deamon
C 4 x 20mm hispano's & more ammo than tiffy.
D many ord options
While the la7 is also a speed freek it does NOT have 4 x 20mm hizukas.
Has very limited ord options & no DT's.
Has only 3 20mm, which must be considerably closer to do the same damage.
Last but not least the la7 above 12 k is not near as much of a threat. Above 16k ponys, jugs, & 109's eat it.
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Ghost... honestly... who is going to use a Tempest for hauling bombs or rockets? Nobody. So the fact that it CAN carry them is kind of irrelevant.
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Because tempest is british.
Ok, lets look at the P51-D mustang: -
A late war release check!
B speed deamon check!
C 6 x sniper rifle hizooka's check!
D many overload ord options check!
E American so it nullifies all other points check!
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Originally posted by Furball
Because tempest is british.
Ok, lets look at the P51-D mustang: -
A late war release check!
B speed deamon check!
C 6 x sniper rifle hizooka's check!
D many overload ord options check!
E American so it nullifies all other points check!
you have your tiffy... give us the p51-h and then we're talking perkies..
:)
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P-51H wasn't even ready in time to see action in europe.
Add it to the list along with the P.80, Do-335, Go-229 and other 'what if?' planes.
The P-51H was too late to see action in the war in Europe. By the late summer of 1945, some P-51Hs had been issued to a few operational units. These units were in the process of working up to operational status when the war in the Pacific ended with the Japanese surrender. None had the opportunity to see any combat. At the time of V-J Day, 555 P-51Hs had rolled off the Inglewood production lines. The last P-51H rolled off the production line in 1946.
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All those late year planes should be perked..Like you can't afford 2 points?...Wonder what would happen to gameplay..:rolleyes:
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Tempest hizookas have better balistics, higher rate of fire and feel like they have more hitting power than the Russian cannons in the La7. Also Tempest has a nice cruising speed. As mentioned earlier La7 sucks hind tit above 10k.
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Yes, La7 should be perked, but will most likely never happen...
Bout time for hitech to come in and declare this an official la7 whine eh?? :D
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Originally posted by Tilt
The 3 cannon version did not have 600 rounds it had a maximum capacity of 150 rnds per gun and very often only carried 120 rnds per gun.
As indeed the two cannon (max capacity 200 rnds per gun) very often carried 170 rnds per gun.
The first (2 cannon) La7's saw action in July 44 (but the bulk were introduced in Sept) which seems to be about the same time or slightly earlier than Tempests were being moved over to Northern France/Belgium.
Over 5000 La7's were built and over 3500 saw action albeit that a very small number of the 3 cannon variant saw action.
I would agree that the 2 cannon version is much more representative yet rarely used. There would be a good arguement for perking the 3 cannon version (as the Chog is perked) if the two variants could be split. La7(44) & La7(45)
Tilt facts were from russian factory drawings all 20mm's 2 gun and 3 gun could carry 200 rounds per gun.
Even so the la7 is still not the most popular ride in the game and whilst its ability to disengage and run away annoys folk it does not over balance it either IMO.
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How many kills did you end up getting today? Atleast 10 from me..
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Lavochkin La-7
Powerplant 1380kW (1850hp) M-82FN (Ash-82FN) 14-cylinder radial engine
Max Speed 665km/h (413mph) at 5,000m (16,404ft)
Ceiling 10,800m (35,435ft)
Max Range 635km (395 miles)
Wing Span 9.8m (32ft 1in)
Length 8.6m (28ft 2in)
Height 2.54m (8ft 4in)
Empty Weight 2,638kg (5,816lb)
Max Weight 3,400kg (7,496lb)
Armament 3x 20mm Beresin B-20 ShVak nose cannons* (with 200 rounds per gun)
6x 8.2cm (3.23in) RS-82 rockets, or
100kg of bombs.
*Only about 368 left the factory with this armament.
also tempest m1 flew 43 and amd mk2 in july 43
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Originally posted by MotorOil
As mentioned earlier La7 sucks hind tit above 10k.
That is a funny myth, lets look at AH La7 vs AH P51D at 20k: La7 is doing about 412 mph wep OFF, P51D about 422 mph wep ON and about 415 mph wep OFF. Also, at 20k La7 wep off is faster than SpitIX or 109G6/G2 or C205 on wep, and as fast as 190A8/A5/F8 or P38L on wep.
Definitively, La7 does not suck at all above 10k.
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I use tempest to haul 2 1000LBs, it is strong enuff to get them up 20k, & fast enuff to get out after the drop.
Besides I have way to many perk points, and since you cant take em to AH2, or buy Jack Daniels & strippers with em--------
A-Clown
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Originally posted by A_Clown
Besides I have way to many perk points, and since you cant take em to AH2, or buy Jack Daniels & strippers with em--------
If I remember correctly, HiTech stated awhile back that perks will transfer to AH2.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Besides I have way to many perk points, and since you cant take em to AH2
What ever gave you that idea.
HiTech
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and since you cant take em to AH2, or buy Jack Daniels & strippers with em
What?!!! I thought that was what the O' club in AH2 was gonna be all about! I've been hording my perk points!!!
Oh, the humanity!
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Originally posted by Furball
Because tempest is british.
Ok, lets look at the P51-D mustang: -
A late war release check!
B speed deamon check!
C 6 x sniper rifle hizooka's check!
D many overload ord options check!
E American so it nullifies all other points check!
51 has hizookas?
Tempest is just a better plane. Better gun platform, better range, better ceiling, better vis. Most la7s that manage to run down a tempest end up getting outknifed, cause the Temp is better slow as well.
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Originally posted by GODO
That is a funny myth, lets look at AH La7 vs AH P51D at 20k: La7 is doing about 412 mph wep OFF, P51D about 422 mph wep ON and about 415 mph wep OFF. Also, at 20k La7 wep off is faster than SpitIX or 109G6/G2 or C205 on wep, and as fast as 190A8/A5/F8 or P38L on wep.
Definitively, La7 does not suck at all above 10k.
You start the post at 20K sighting your findings, and then end the post at 10K ... which is it ? ... 10K or 20K ... makes a HUGE difference !!!
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I'd like to see a p51c. It had 20mm's. How many i forget though...
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'd like to see a p51c. It had 20mm's. How many i forget though...
The P-51C was the same as the P-51B but was built in Dallas instead of Inglewood. It was the Mustang Mk.IA that was armed with four Hispanos. This model was powered by the Allison engine.
My regards,
Widewing
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There was one P51B prototype with 4 hispanos.
I have beat an La7 in a tempest with 2000 pounders. Never even droped them. Poor guy in his "perk" plane was hunting my PERK plane.lol
No rational person that was here befor the Hog C was perked would compare the game impact of the LA7 with the Hog C.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
You start the post at 20K sighting your findings, and then end the post at 10K ... which is it ? ... 10K or 20K ... makes a HUGE difference !!!
May be you can read what I was replying.
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Well said pongo
C-hawgs filled the skys, raining death from above at insane distances.
La7 while it may be annoying when you can't catch em, is no where near the same impact on gameplay.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'd like to see a p51c. It had 20mm's. How many i forget though...
I'm pretty sure that was the Mustang I that had the 20mms. The C model was just a B made in a different factory. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that.
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Opps didnt see widewing's post.
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Originally posted by GODO
May be you can read what I was replying.
No I think you need to re-read what you wrote.
I agree .. the LA-7 does not suck above 10K ... If the point you were tryin to make is that it doesn't suck above 20K with all those stats, then I would have to disagree with you.
Its not the speed that sucks ... its the handling that sucks. At 20K, the pony/P38 would eat the La-7's lunch all day.
The La-7 begins to suck at around 17K.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
No I think you need to re-read what you wrote.
I agree .. the LA-7 does not suck above 10K ... If the point you were tryin to make is that it doesn't suck above 20K with all those stats, then I would have to disagree with you.
Its not the speed that sucks ... its the handling that sucks. At 20K, the pony/P38 would eat the La-7's lunch all day.
The La-7 begins to suck at around 17K.
GODO I think Slapshot clears up the point I wanted to make. Speed is one thing but try getting into an actuall turn fight at high alt with an La7 and you will see why the plane is not perked. It handles like a brick at alt.
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It's true, I dunno about you, but whenever I see la7s they're above 17k.
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I would like to see any document that thinks the 3 gun la7 had ammo boxes big enough for 600 rounds total..............
Also any document that shows the la5 or la 7 equiped with rockets............(although the Lagg with the same wing did carry rockets)
I have original VVS trial docs and many other articles and have never seen such a spec........
The 3 cannon was originally designed to hold 170 RPG but this was reduced to 150 and in practice was often 130 rpg.
Similarly for info the 2 gun option was often reduced to a 170 rpg load out.
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Originally posted by MotorOil
GODO I think Slapshot clears up the point I wanted to make. Speed is one thing but try getting into an actuall turn fight at high alt with an La7 and you will see why the plane is not perked. It handles like a brick at alt.
If speed is secondary and turning becomes primary then, for example, Dora sucks all the way from 0k to outer space. If "suck" means that it has more than NONE competitors above 10k, then I agree, but then 90% of nonperked planes suck from 10k to 20k also. Up to 20k, if it cant outturn, it can outrun most (not all) of the actual fighters, and, if necessary, dive away and outrun everything.
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Handling like a brick at alt :rofl
of course but when one flys 110s and Ju-88s for a2a missions it dont matter
la7 is needed to keep baby seal s in their place
"arp,arp,arp,arp," SPLAT
fly la7 all the time they dont learn jack about acm, of course they can still catch you, but only time thats a problem is when they have spit/niki in attendance, which of course is all the time, but then only time THAT is a problem is when they have over a month of XP in them. I say perk all 1944 planes and later for people who have 1-1 kill ratio.
those who know whats what will still be mike tyson in a 110 to n00b robin givens in the Spit9
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Originally posted by GODO
If speed is secondary and turning becomes primary then, for example, Dora sucks all the way from 0k to outer space. If "suck" means that it has more than NONE competitors above 10k, then I agree, but then 90% of nonperked planes suck from 10k to 20k also. Up to 20k, if it cant outturn, it can outrun most (not all) of the actual fighters, and, if necessary, dive away and outrun everything.
Soooo ... just because it can runaway from or catch most planes it should be perked ? Hardly criteria to justify perking it.
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yes, exactly. it needs to be perked because it is preventing the masses from recognizing the greatness of the few sky accountants who got caught low.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Soooo ... just because it can runaway from or catch most planes it should be perked ? Hardly criteria to justify perking it.
I dind say a word about perks, only that it is clearly false that La7 sucks above 10k.
(edit) in any case, if we want to talk about perks, then lets talk about overuse.
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Soooo ... just because it can runaway from or catch most planes it should be perked ? Hardly criteria to justify perking it.
True!
That's why the whole section of late-war fighters must be lightly perked! :D
Details in the sig.
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Originally posted by GODO
I dind say a word about perks, only that it is clearly false that La7 sucks above 10k.
(edit) in any case, if we want to talk about perks, then lets talk about overuse.
Sooo just because the La7 is fast above 10k means it's good? My Spit/hurr/P51 in a dive from 20k to 10k is also fast and it will out turn your La7 at that alt.
Where the La7 will outperform majority of planes below 5k. Above 10k that number is greatly reduced. Speed is only one characteristic of La7. If my hurricane catches your La7 slow and climbing at 15k, your ability to turn/accelerate/dive are all hampered by the lesser performance qualities of the La7 at that alt.
All I'm saying is put the La7 on equal terms or at a disadvantage and it sucks compared with other aircraft at alt and it sucks. If you want to rate a plane's "Suckability" strictly on it's ability to run away, you're missing the point.
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Originally posted by MotorOil
If you want to rate a plane's "Suckability" strictly on it's ability to run away, you're missing the point.
Consider who you're talking to here.
Hi, MANDOBLE!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Soooo ... just because it can runaway from or catch most planes it should be perked ? Hardly criteria to justify perking it.
He he, My LA7 cought your spit last night Slap. It earned me an all acomondations paid, trip to the tower :aok
The food was pretty good
:D
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I think the significant differnce between the Tempest and La-7 boils down to its usage.
More often than not, La-7 pilots don't know how to fight.
More often than not, Tempest pilots don't want to fight.
The first dives in without out a clue and tries to escape via speed.
The second cherry picks off of other fights and then escapes via speed.
Either way, lame behavior abounds....
I say, let's apply a 10 perk requirement to the P-51D, Dora, La-7, 109G-10 and Tiffie. Then reset everyone's perks every tour and let's see what happens... It'll be a whole new world....
My regards,
Widewing
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lol Ded. That's the cool thing about spits. I go through a pile of them and send them to the tower. Then, the moment I take one for granted, I run into Todd or Slap or someone who can actually handle one and find my casual approach has me in heap big trouble.
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I say, let's apply a 10 perk requirement to the P-51D, Dora, La-7, 109G-10 and Tiffie. Then reset everyone's perks every tour and let's see what happens... It'll be a whole new world....
Oh my. You think they are timid now! Just think how timid these people would be, whoever they are, if they had their perks reset at the onset of each tour, once they got in their late war ride. Move the bases closer together, make it so the very early war rides never go below 50% fuel, then we'd have some furball fun!
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Originally posted by Steve
lol Ded. That's the cool thing about spits. I go through a pile of them and send them to the tower. Then, the moment I take one for granted, I run into Todd or Slap or someone who can actually handle one and find my casual approach has me in heap big trouble.
Thats exactly what I did. Another spit another kill. Hmmm, then I found myself in the tower. If I knew it was him I would prob run, lol. (for the people that did not get it, I am kidding)
Maybe the pilot name should be included in the icon ;)
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Originally posted by Widewing
I say, let's apply a 10 perk requirement to the P-51D, Dora, La-7, 109G-10 and Tiffie. Then reset everyone's perks every tour and let's see what happens... It'll be a whole new world....
My regards,
Widewing
Can some one explain to me what am I missing about the Tiffie the Dora and even the G10? What is it that makes them so special that we need to perk them? Especialy the Tiffie?
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Oh my. You think they are timid now! Just think how timid these people would be, whoever they are, if they had their perks reset at the onset of each tour, once they got in their late war ride.
Why? Perks reset at the end of the tour means you have nothing to lose by burning up some points once you grab them.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Thats exactly what I did. Another spit another kill. Hmmm, then I found myself in the tower. If I knew it was him I would prob run, lol. (for the people that did not get it, I am kidding)
Maybe the pilot name should be included in the icon ;)
NO NO NO ... please don't do that. I already spend half my time flying/floundering around trying to look like a noob so as to entice them to take a run at me. There is this timidness running rampant in the MA as of late ... ;)
Ded .. wish I had some more ammo when you returned to second time. All I had was about 200+ .303s and couldn't take you out fast enough before the next guy blasted me. Back at the tower all FHs were down and there was no way I could return for some more good fights with you. Thanks for the fights we had tho.
<>
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Originally posted by GODO
I dind say a word about perks, only that it is clearly false that La7 sucks above 10k.
(edit) in any case, if we want to talk about perks, then lets talk about overuse.
GODO/MANDOBLE ...
The inital post in this thread started the discussion concerning perking the La-7. How silly of me to assume that that must have been your underlying intent.
Now you switch over to "overuse" ... what in hells bells does all that altitude jibbersh have to do with overuse then ?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
NO NO NO ... please don't do that. I already spend half my time flying/floundering around trying to look like a noob so as to entice them to take a run at me. There is this timidness running rampant in the MA as of late ... ;)
Ded .. wish I had some more ammo when you returned to second time. All I had was about 200+ .303s and couldn't take you out fast enough before the next guy blasted me. Back at the tower all FHs were down and there was no way I could return for some more good fights with you. Thanks for the fights we had tho.
<>
Who was the other guy? I hought it was my full desperation full flaps, gear down, fingers crossed, eyes closed, pull on the stick till it breaks move that got you.
:D
Seriusly though. Was there someone else? The last I saw before you hit the water you were in front of me d200 and I was firing. Please don't tell me some else got you. You will make me fly 100 feed high lookin for you for the rest of my AH life, lol
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Originally posted by dedalos
Who was the other guy? I hought it was my full desperation full flaps, gear down, fingers crossed, eyes closed, pull on the stick till it breaks move that got you.
:D
Seriusly though. Was there someone else? The last I saw before you hit the water you were in front of me d200 and I was firing. Please don't tell me some else got you. You will make me fly 100 feed high lookin for you for the rest of my AH life, lol
DOH ... my bad ... fights getting mixed together.
You are correct ... but it was those damn .303s. My life for a few cannon rounds .. hehehe.
I just started using my new CH setup (button setup is all new) last night, and when you slammed the breaks on ... you got me all flustered cause I was trying to pump every last bloddy .303 (all 200+ of 'em) into the same spot on your tail. Ergo, I collided with you and went into the drink hearing pings all the way down.
And yes it was someone else that got me (I'm lying. I want you to come look me up again ... real soon ... ;) )
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Originally posted by SlapShot
DOH ... my bad ... fights getting mixed together.
You are correct ... but it was those damn .303s. My life for a few cannon rounds .. hehehe.
I just started using my new CH setup (button setup is all new) last night, and when you slammed the breaks on ... you got me all flustered cause I was trying to pump every last bloddy .303 (all 200+ of 'em) into the same spot on your tail. Ergo, I collided with you and went into the drink hearing pings all the way down.
And yes it was someone else that got me (I'm lying. I want you to come look me up again ... real soon ... ;) )
lol, my ego feels a lot better now. I was wondering why I only lost the radiator after all those pings on my tail (radiator damage whine in disguise, lol)
I'll be looking but I learned my lesson. No more turning in the la7 when I see a low spit, lol
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Originally posted by dedalos
lol, my ego feels a lot better now. I was wondering why I only lost the radiator after all those pings on my tail (radiator damage whine in disguise, lol)
I'll be looking but I learned my lesson. No more turning in the la7 when I see a low spit, lol
Hint: If you see the Spit go vertical at the merge, after just being on the deck ... just keep on going, straight and fast ... if not, it might be safe to play in the water.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Can some one explain to me what am I missing about the Tiffie the Dora and even the G10? What is it that makes them so special that we need to perk them? Especialy the Tiffie?
Those are the next fastest planes.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Those are the next fastest planes.
Thank you. I thought that may be the answer. Those are not easy planes to fly though (thats why I fly spits and la7s). We should not be perking based on speed only.
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Everything is easy to fly when the goal is not to fight in it.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Everything is easy to fly when the goal is not to fight in it.
Thats true, but perks are not going to help. Just one more reason to run
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la7 haters rejoice the fuel is being made shorter i think
take alook at this
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107516
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SlapShot, I simply replied someone stating that La7 sucks above 10k. You started messing up that individual reply with "some reason to perk it". IMO La7 does not suck above 10k, but that is not a reason to perk it, overusage is.
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Who says what "overusage" is? Obviously Hitech doesn't think ~10% of the total is to much, and it is doubtful it will ever get much higher than that. So I wouldn't hold your breath waiting on it getting perked.
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Originally posted by rod367th
La7 came out after tempest and made in less numbers. But for some reason la7 not perked and tempest is. also la-7 had 600 rounds cannon with 3 gun option but only 375 with 3 gun option where ever built.
Was never big on la-7 whines but if tempest perked why shouldn't la-7 since it was out in smaller numbers and not flying untill early spring 44?
For once Rod, I find myself agreeing with everything you just wrote... hehe...