Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: gofaster on January 28, 2004, 10:16:39 AM
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The State Attorney just killed his chances for political office in the next election. I can see his opponents' smear campaign ads now: "Mark Ober wanted to send a businessman to prison for defending his property! Will he send you to prison for defending yours, too?"
No wonder he got an underling to deliver the message at the press conference. Interesting how the story doesn't even mention the State Attorney by name.
I can see where the restaurant owner went too far, but at the same time I can see his logic and rationale for going after the robber. Yeah, the owner is probably guilty of aggravated manslaughter, but the robber had it coming.
Its cases like this that make me wish I could get picked for jury duty! :mad:
Victim Charged In Robber's Death
By JOSHUA B. GOOD jgood@tampatrib.com
Published: Jan 28, 2004
TAMPA - Prosecutors filed manslaughter charges Tuesday against a downtown restaurant owner who drove his SUV over a robber, killing him.
Lawrence Storer, 33, owner of Sumos Thai Cafe at 301 E. Twiggs St., was expected to surrender to police Tuesday evening, pay $7,500 bail and be released, said his attorney, John Fitzgibbons.
On Oct. 30, Storer was renovating his restaurant late at night. He took a break and sat in his Ford Explorer, Fitzgibbons said.
Shantavious Wilson, 24, stuck a gun through the SUV's open window, pointed it at Storer's head and demanded money, according to police.
``When the gun was being pointed at his head, all he could think of was his little girl. He thought his life was over,'' Fitzgibbons said.
Storer got out of his Ford, went into the restaurant and handed over a small amount of money to Wilson, police said.
Storer then ran from Wilson and dialed 911 on his cell phone. Wilson followed, pointed his gun at Storer, then ran, Tampa police spokesman Joe Durkin has said.
Storer climbed into his SUV and chased Wilson. Storer went the wrong way on Polk Street, drove on the sidewalk and ran over Wilson, according to a police report filed with the court Tuesday.
The gun Wilson used looked like a 9 mm pistol but was a pellet gun, police said.
``We anticipate a jury will be very sympathetic,'' Fitzgibbons said.
Privately, prosecutors admit it will be difficult to persuade a jury to convict Storer. Publicly, prosecutors talked about how the law applies to everyone.
``We live in a civilized society. We are a nation of laws, and none of us have the right to violate the laws we share,'' said Pam Bondi, spokeswoman for the Hillsborough County State Attorney's Office.
Wilson's family could not be reached Tuesday.
A surveillance camera at the federal courthouse downtown recorded some of the incident. Fitzgibbons has not seen the tape and Bondi and the prosecutor on the case, Jalal Harb, would not discuss it.
A portion of the tape, however, was released to local TV stations when police attempted to find possible witnesses to Wilson's death. The released portion did not show Wilson being run over. The quality of the tape was poor and police previously said they attempted to enhance portions of it.
Fitzgibbons talked about Wilson's violent past and might try to introduce that in Storer's case.
In 1998, according to court records, Wilson robbed a Tampa laundry and held a gun on Esther Lee. He took her money and purse, then ran. Like Storer, Lee chased Wilson, she said.
``When you're faced with someone pointing a gun at you, at that moment there's no reasoning. You go into shock, you don't think,'' Lee said Tuesday.
In 1999, Wilson was sentenced to five years for armed robbery in the attack on Lee and was released Sept. 26.
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"I can see where the restaurant owner went too far.."
I agree.
"..but at the same time I can see his logic and rationale for going after the robber."
His rationale was that he was pissed. That is not justification for killing him.
"Yeah, the owner is probably guilty of aggravated manslaughter..."
Case closed.
"..but the robber had it coming."
Nice. Maybe the defense can use the "He deserved it" logic at trial. :rolleyes:
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one less armed robber we have to worry about.
did i read the report right? the storeowner drove his SUV the WRONG WAY on a ONE WAY STREET?...give that law breaker a ticket.
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Out of curiousity, would you still think that the store owner should not be charged if he shot the robber in the back while he was running away from the scene of the crime?
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-sympothy on-
More like one "Unarmed" robber who is possibly robbing for his family cause he dosn't know right from wrong or he just needs the money to help feed his family.
-sympothy off-
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
"..but the robber had it coming."
Nice. Maybe the defense can use the "He deserved it" logic at trial. :rolleyes: [/B]
You can bet they will. Playing to the jury's emotions worked for Valessa Robinson (http://www.trialpractice.com/inthenews/valessa_robinson.htm) and would probably work here. I wouldn't be surprised if the defense stated that the owner worked there, owned a business there, was concerned for the safety of his customers, and was afraid the robber would come back again and again and again to repeat his heinous crime.
The fact that the perp was only out of jail for a month before he commited the same crime again will weigh strongly on the jurors' minds as well.
I'm guessing the defense attorneys will be on the phone with Harvey Moore, PhD., pretty soon.
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Once the gun was no longer pointed at him (the guy started running), he became a murderer IMO. Self defense is the act of defending ones self while under threat. The thief was no longer a threat once he started running.
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Good point Rip. I think the consensus here is that he will likely be found guilty of manslaughter (heat of the moment, passion, etc), but will receive a light sentence.
Another questions, at the risk of hijacking the thread: Why is the fact that Storer was driving an SUV germain to the case? Ever wonder why SUV's seem to be villified in the press? If the guy drove a Hyundai Accent, would the press have writen that the "restaurant owner who drove his Korean subcompact import over a robber, killing him"?
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Oh the Humanity, A violent criminal is dead :( .
Rip. Who was to know that that wasn't a real gun? What if he was let free to roam and plunder and possibly kill someone?
Lets just say that the shop owner was givin a little o that Unilateral action stuff.
Pre-emptive strikes?
GWB special?
I am definitely sympathetic to the owner.
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I can see both sides off the coin here,however I'm inclined to be sympathetic to the storeowner.
My question is;if he becomes a murderer when the guy is fleeing and no longer a threat,then why can police shoot at a fleeing suspect?
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I have to agree with Rip.
Once the man with the gun left, Storrer wasn't acting out of self-defense, he was acting out of anger. He had a damn good reason to be angry, but that's not justification.
After the guy left, it became a call the cops and report it situation. Or hell, call the cops on the cell phone while he chases the guy down the street.
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Don't forget, the owner gave the money to the robber, then the owner ran away and called 911 on his cell phone. The robber then chased the owner but gave up the chase. To me, that indicates that the robber was thinking of whacking the owner but changed his mind. There was no mention of whether the robber was wearing a mask. The robber had just gotten out of prison because his last victim had identified him. Maybe the robber wasn't about to make that mistake again. Who's to say that the owner, believing the gun to be real, felt that the robber most certainly would come back to finish the job? If that's the logic to be followed, who's to say that the owner didn't run over the robber as an aggressive form of self-defense?
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Of course a call to the cops was in order. But what would be the chance of catching the guy?
Aye, the death of the perp was not really justified, no matter what the circumstance was, but had he gotten away, what makes you think the perp would not have come back later for more money with a more serious consequence?
Maybe the store owner was not only mad but worried the robber may return for more money or his life later? Criminals don't like people who can ID them in a lineup, you know.
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Maybe the store owner should have been packing a handgun and when he was getting the money just shot him dead.
Then everyone here would say Xcellent, that shows why are constitutional rights to bear arms are to be protected.
Man that Robber got what he deserved.
Either way a violent criminal is dead while in the act of committing a violent crime.
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My suspicion is that nobody heard him yell "Citizen's arrest". Parking the SUV on the perp to restrain him until backup arrived was the prudent action.
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He'll go on trial, as he should, and hopefully he'll get off. The lowlife dirtbag relinquished his right to live when he stuck a gun (pellet or otherwise, he presented it as a lethal weapon) to the store owner's head.
by MJHermanOut of curiousity, would you still think that the store owner should not be charged if he shot the robber in the back while he was running away from the scene of the crime?
Yeah, still a trial, still hope he would get off. The plus side of this scenario, though, is that he wouldn't have any front end damage on his SUV. I bet his insurance company doesn't even cover the damage. That's a shame.
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He was making a "Citizen's arrest" of a fleeing felon. Incedent to that arrest the felon died while resisting.
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Don't worry, SOB. Florida is a no-fault state. ;)
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He RAN the guy down in his SUV after the robber left? Sorry, but the threat to him left when the robber ran away.
Manslaughter is a good charge here. He was not defending himself or his property at the point he drove down a 1 way street to get him.
Now, had defendant backed up while the robber had the gun in the his face and ran him over, that would be a different story.
The guy went to far. Now if he was afraid that the guy was gonna come back and potentially finish the job, (i.e. kill the witness) then he should go out, buy a 12 guage, wait for the bastard to get in the front door and then pop him 2 or 3 times. There isn't a jury in the world that would convict him of any wrong doing in that situation because, the IMMEDIATE threat was there (i.e. the robber in the house) AND because of the past history of the prior encounter.
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Modas, you assume that the robber wasn't patient. He snuck up on the owner once, who's to say he wouldn't wait and catch the owner unawares again? Shotguns are mighty big things to be toting around while serving up fried rice and vegetables. I certainly wouldn't want to eat at a place where the service packed rods.
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i need a gun so that I can shoot myself...
i can't believe what i'm about to say...
I agree with Rip !!!
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I might add that I've been taught (as well as my sons will be taught when they're old enough) NEVER pull a gun on ANYONE unless you intend to KILL them and ONLY do it in SELF DEFENSE. Anything outside of this (besides the Military) is what I consider a murderer.
The same could be said for the SUV as a weapon. Had the criminal been running up to the store owner while the store owner was sitting in the SUV , then I'd say run 'em over, and back over him a couple times to be sure he's dead. :D
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we all agree... the store owner was wrong but.... I'm goad he did it. If I was on the jury he would get off. I see child molesters get loose because the arrest warant had the wrong address...
not so much interested in the law here as I am justice.
lazs
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The guy is probably guilty of everything charged
But he trimmed the genepool some by giving this guy Michelin poisoning. Doesn't bug me a bit, if he does time, it wont be much of anything
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ping is right on this one ..
I believe the guy was just tailing him for the cops when the perp ran out in front of the SUV, probably jaywalking ...
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Once the gun was no longer pointed at him (the guy started running), he became a murderer IMO. Self defense is the act of defending ones self while under threat. The thief was no longer a threat once he started running.
Wow, I think I just agreed with Ripsnort. There must be a conjunction of planets going on or something........
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I woulda backed over him after running him down....to many people these days leave work half done. :D
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I hope the store owner gets off. Doesn't matter that the gun was no longer pointed at him.
Anyone who forcefully and illegally takes other people's property should consider a possible consequence of having their neck slashed and left bleeding on the sidewalk ... even if they got away the first time and ran into the person they robbed two weeks after the fact.
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FWIW at close range pellet guns can be quiet lethal.
My story... I was following him while contacting the police. Suddenly he whirled pointing the gun at me, I accelerated to evade but in doing so lost control of my vehicle and accidently overan the perp. Then I realized I was going the wrong way down the street so I immediately reversed and backed out there.
Honest office.
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I'm going to vote for Vulcan for president this November. He's shown a natural ability for what makes a good politician great! :D
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Ban SUVs!
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Originally posted by Pei
Wow, I think I just agreed with Ripsnort. There must be a conjunction of planets going on or something........
Strange isn't it...
Tronsky
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vulcan.. at close range the fist of a grown man can, and has been.... quite lethal.
lazs
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If you're in a Spit V and an LA-7 runs at you, then turns away and is egressing, is the threat over or is he just setting himself up to come at you again?
Just because the perp was egressing doesn't mean the threat was over.
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The moment you break the law violating someone else's rights, you lose all of yours. I see it as completely legal that the store owner ran over the robber.
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What would Batman do ?!? :eek:
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Originally posted by LePaul
What would Batman do ?!? :eek:
He'd use the Bat-a-rang to lasso the perp as the perp tried to flee, then hold the thug until Commissioner Gordon and The Chief of Police arrived.
(http://www.batman-on-film.com/images/thebatman2.jpg)
Unfortunately, Storer didn't have a Bat-a-rang handy, so he used his Ford Explorer to subdue the thug.
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I thought for sure that was enough bait for a batgirl or catwoman pic! :)
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Originally posted by LePaul
I thought for sure that was enough bait for a batgirl or catwoman pic! :)
Well, if you insist.
(http://www.bat-hound.com/batgirl/battech.gif)