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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Frstrm on January 30, 2004, 03:19:02 PM

Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on January 30, 2004, 03:19:02 PM
"Creamers Dream" of Flt Lt. Charles White
301st FS/332nd FG
15th AF
"Tuskegee"

From Air Warrior Sac Program
(http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/200031.gif)

My reskin of the P51D
(http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss2.gif)
(http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss3.gif)
(http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss4.gif)
(http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss5.gif)
(http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss6.gif)
(http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss7.gif)

I still need to do the Plane Name on the Nose and tweak the nose/canopy strut color issue.
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: MadBirdCZ on January 30, 2004, 03:48:06 PM
Don't overlay the colors.. they are then washed up... do it the other way around... Overlay the rivets and lines over the colors...

Yes it costs more fat and effort but the results are worth of it... ;)
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on January 30, 2004, 04:00:25 PM
Actually i'm using a lineir blend function so that the color stays true but that the rivits and details come thru without washing out...

But, i'll try it and see what happens.

thxs
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: MadBirdCZ on January 30, 2004, 04:11:00 PM
Well but the Yelows and Reds are very washed out... :confused: They should be more vivid, even if they should act as showing signs of chipped paint etc.
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on January 30, 2004, 04:20:07 PM
washed out???

If you are referring to the tail sections that is due to the light reflectivity generated by the Game Engine...

here are maybe this will show what I mean vs what you see in game images...

http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/P51DSID.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/P51DWNG.gif
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: MadBirdCZ on January 30, 2004, 04:44:10 PM
Yep, this is what I'm talking about... On the images above the reds are almost brown and Yellows are more like orange... Which is a bit bad, ain't it? They did use colors that covered the metal surface fully and were not transparent...

On the "source" from the air warriror both the yellows and reds are much more vivid and true to life... That is what looks a bit odd on your skin so far...
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on January 30, 2004, 07:12:38 PM
Here are some inflight images...  

Finished tweaking the nose cone...  If you refer to the above texture panels you'll find where the nose color is located...  It was a pain to get it down the real shape.  But there is a issue where the nose art will appear on the cockpit dash and canopy struts.

http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahssa.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahssb.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahssf.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahssg.gif
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Fidd on January 30, 2004, 07:19:28 PM
Good grief, its funny to see that again. I can remember doing it! Looks like a nice job, I probably have the unreduced SAC development image (I used to work in 1024 square/16 mill colours) somewhere on file. Let me know if you need it, it'll be enormous, and I don't have broadband, so I expect the easiest way to make it available is to upload it to the web.

Let me know if you want it?
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: DYGCaps on January 30, 2004, 08:37:45 PM
Frstrm, looks very nice, wtg bro :aok
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on January 30, 2004, 10:48:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fidd
Good grief, its funny to see that again. I can remember doing it! Looks like a nice job, I probably have the unreduced SAC development image (I used to work in 1024 square/16 mill colours) somewhere on file. Let me know if you need it, it'll be enormous, and I don't have broadband, so I expect the easiest way to make it available is to upload it to the web.

Let me know if you want it?


That would be extremely cool...



Hell, it's just cool that you were able to see your old art reborn... "}

Frstrm

PS. let me where you upload to, or e-mail me and i'll give you a location you can upload to.
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: MadBirdCZ on January 31, 2004, 02:46:21 AM
It looks very nice :aok

But still rhe reds and yellows... :confused:  But don't care much about what I say... I'm depressed and somehow grumpy at my old age... ;)
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: SFCHONDO on January 31, 2004, 02:52:47 AM
Excellent start Firestorm. I really like it
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Fidd on January 31, 2004, 06:53:52 AM
I've put it up on my website at:

http://www.mthuff.clara.net/tempjunk/p51s.zip

Let me know here as soon as you have dloaded it so i can delete it from the site, my webspace is not unlimited. The file is 3.90 meg, and contains 3 .psp files (paintshop pro) of 3 different P51's in 1200/16 mill . Nice to see the old SAC images of those days, crude now of course, but then we only had 1 x 256/256 .bmp to work with!

Quote
Originally posted by Frstrm
That would be extremely cool...



Hell, it's just cool that you were able to see your old art reborn... "}

Frstrm

PS. let me where you upload to, or e-mail me and i'll give you a location you can upload to.
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: ergRTC on January 31, 2004, 10:08:48 AM
gotta fix them colors, looks like a skid mark at the moment.

brownstang.


otherwise it will be a great addition, one I am sure HTC will add to the game when the time comes.
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on January 31, 2004, 02:57:08 PM
Thanks Fidd,

I've got the download, you can clear the file now...

Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Reschke on January 31, 2004, 05:48:27 PM
You got any close up shots of the skin on the aircraft? Just wondering since it does appear to be more of a "redbrown" than red on my end as well.
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Fidd on January 31, 2004, 05:54:27 PM
More to the point, Charles White, should, of course, be black!
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on January 31, 2004, 08:21:58 PM
Well, At the time of this posting I hadn't gotten to the pilot yet, but that is already fixed.  "}

Also, I realized my gamma on my monitor is probably set higher then all of you, so the yellow and red didn't look so bad.  Im in the process of reworking the colors now...  I'll probably have new shots up by early next week.

I don't like the idea of just a solid yellow for the stripes.  I want some of that wing panel detail to come thru, so I'm gonna have to comprimise a little on that...
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Eagler on January 31, 2004, 08:53:22 PM
co worker had an uncle, Frederick D. Funderburg, who flew the p47 for them before they were issued p51's.
He was shot down and killed after two confirmed kills.
Does anyone know if the p47's had the redtails also?
He flew for the 301st
(http://www.flyingtigerssurplus.com/images/products/bgP821.jpg)
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on January 31, 2004, 09:21:13 PM
Did a little quick research on the p47 for ya...  This is what I came across...

Interesting enough it mentions the following info in the thread.

June 9, 1944
1/Lt Charls M. Bussey, 302nd, P-47, Me-109, 1
2/Lt. Frederick Funderburg 301st P-47, Me-109,2
1/Lt. Melvin T. Jackson 302nd, P-47, Me-109, 1
1/Lt Wendell O. Pruitt 302nd, P-47, Me-109,1

Frederick was credited with 2 Me-109 kills.

http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6628
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Eagler on February 01, 2004, 11:15:58 AM
thanks for the info

when you get the colors worked out can you email me a copy pls?
eagler@pogbird.com
thanks
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on February 01, 2004, 02:14:11 PM
Here are some new images with corrected colors...

http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss7a.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss8.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss9.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss10.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss11.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss12.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss13.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss14.gif
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss15.gif
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: MadBirdCZ on February 01, 2004, 02:16:55 PM
Hmm yellow is not right still... make it a bit darker... this is almost yellow-green already... But the red looks much better now... :aok
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on February 01, 2004, 03:36:27 PM
madbird:
Check your monitor bud...
that yellow is 255,255,0... you can't get more yellow than that...

heh, sorry for the snap...

I'm still working on it, and will post as I go...  I still need to do the "creamin dream" lettering.

I just finished redoing the skin (ripping all the Default Colors off) What a pain the in arse, and reappling my old work with the redone colors.

I hate having to go back to INDEX on the textures because you always lose some of the colors...

Eagler:
When Ah2 releases the Jug, maybe i'll do one for that... we shall see...
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on February 01, 2004, 03:55:51 PM
I tweaked it by using the same color yellow as is used for the prop tip.

I also fixed something I missed on that last run.. the white sections on the rudder and elevators.

(http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/ahss0.jpg)
JPG Format
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: straffo on February 01, 2004, 04:02:08 PM
Frstrm if you want to show us correctly your work use another file format.


Post picture in Jpeg 75% compression !

The gif format you have used is limited to a 256 colour palette it don't give a good idea of the colour you used originaly.

read this : http://www.siriusweb.com/tutorials/gifvsjpg/
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: MadBirdCZ on February 01, 2004, 04:03:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Frstrm
madbird:
Check your monitor bud...
that yellow is 255,255,0... you can't get more yellow than that...


Hehe yep... unfortunately the 255,255,0 is all wrong :D Right it is the most "yellow" you can get.. technically... But it is not the right yellow.. And trust me, my display is quite OK (Gamma 1.8, 6500K, ICC Calibrated) - working on the field of DTP and pre-press has its benefits... One of them is perfectly calibrated displays... Which a bit sucks in AH at night when all the other gamey people boost their gamma so they can game the game... Nevermind...

All I say is that the yellow as it is is extremely unrealistic. The color should be more deep. Maxing out the Red and Green channels is in most cases not the very good way to go... And I really doubt that the true color was "this" yellow...

Just look at the example from the Air warrior, take the eyedropper tool and measure the color in there - 235, 169, 51 does not really look like 255,255,0, does it?  And if you ask me the 235, 169, 51 looks more believable and even much better than the eyes-killing 255,255,0...

But that is just me... Professional deformation... ;)
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on February 01, 2004, 05:30:16 PM
That's cool.  

The Yellow i'm using now is 252,215,4

I just did a little checking and find this a little funny...
The yellow you quoted (235.169.51) is really close to the color I used orignally (235.168.0) that was stated to look like "skid" marks.  lol
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Red Tail 444 on February 03, 2004, 04:35:16 PM
Hey I have a P51c  photo of the 332nd if you're interested.

the paint scheme is a bit different.

Gainsie

My email is corsair_pilot_mn@yahoo.com
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on February 03, 2004, 08:50:28 PM
I would definitly be interested.  I want to be as authentic as possible.

Side Note:
I'm not going to be able to do that sweeping "Creamers Dream" properly due to the way the textures for the nose layout.  They either crop or mirror incorrectly.  obviously the original texturing wasn't done with skinning in mind.
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on February 04, 2004, 06:14:22 PM
Well, I've been doing some research and found that the wing stripes were wrong.  Unless someone can show me something different.

Ramitelli Airfield, Italy
15 AF
306 Fighter Wing
332 Fighter Group

All planes in this group had red tails and red spiners.
Trim tabs and area behind the spinners had different colors based on squadran

99 FS - Blue tabs on tail - Blue behind spinner
100 FS - Black tabs on tail - Red behind spinner with arrow back under exhaust pipes
301 FS - White tabs on tail - Red behind spinner
302 FS - Yellow tabs on tail - Yellow behind spinner

reference oil paint art
http://www.starduststudios.com/Profile4.htm

The hard part is I can't find any hard references on the Wing ID stripes.  The only reference I have to go by is art done by painters.

Updated Images based on research

http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/tusk1.jpg
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/tusk3.jpg
http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/tusk4.jpg

(http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/tusk2.jpg)
(http://www.virtualworld.com/utility/files/ah2/tusk5.jpg)

I still have to clean up a bunch of stuff,
gear doors
black cowling
wing stripes
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Shane on February 04, 2004, 07:47:20 PM
much better coloring... good work...
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Red Tail 444 on February 05, 2004, 12:06:00 PM
I havent forgotten...horse is foaling...and I havent had time to look at my photo collection,

OTN, the P51C does not only have yellow stripes on the wing but on the rudder assembly as well. I cannot say if the color scheme I photographed is accurate or not.

I feel like a total scumbag for leaving you hanging, so here's a link with a photo of the actual aircraft for the time being...

http://redtail.org/airplane/index.shtml

Gainsie

PS Shane, if someone named 2bull is talking trash to you on Ch1, it's me, since  I cancelled my old account for a while and am using a friends..and ruining his good name in the process LOL.
 
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on February 05, 2004, 01:08:26 PM
"In order to represent all those associated with the Tuskegee experience the aircraft has been painted with markings from each of the fighter squadrons. The letter "A" was a designation for the 99th Fighter Squadron. The yellow bands on the end of the wing was a scheme associated with the 101st Fighter Squadron. The number 42 was the series of numbers denoting the 301st Fighter Squadron. The yellow trim tabs and red and yellow nose strips were paint schemes from the 302nd Fighter Squadron. The decals from the bomber squadrons are displayed on the fuselage. "

Ok, this explains some of the wing markings.  Thanks

However since i'm doing the p51D here and it's from the 301st I'll use the single yellow band on the wings.

If, and when, the p51B comes out, i'll reskin it with the 101 colors.  I do like the double yellow bands with red tips.

As to the Rudder, it's just the trim tabs that were painted different colors depending on squadran.  I have found several references for this...
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Sikboy on February 05, 2004, 01:56:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Frstrm


If, and when, the p51B comes out, i'll reskin it with the 101 colors.  I do like the double yellow bands with red tips.


Hasn't it already?

:)

It's looking good though. I even liked the original with the muddy colors lol. And this is why I don't skin.

-Sik
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on February 05, 2004, 02:13:57 PM
hehe, yeah actually, I was just thinking about that and was about to edit that post... You beat me to it... lol
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Mitsu on February 05, 2004, 08:31:21 PM
Wow, what an amazing skin! great work!!! :aok
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: GRUNHERZ on February 05, 2004, 08:40:48 PM
If the wing skins are mirrored how come the top star and bar is only on one wing, same for the red L shaped marking on the inside of the flap?
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on February 05, 2004, 10:19:34 PM
I wondered the same thing.  I think those are actually added by the game engine.

I was able to get the gear door areas cleaned up for the front two gears today.  If you look at the wing texture file, the actual texture space used by the gear door is about 6 more pixels into the black space.  you have to extend the texture to make it look correct.

I also fixed the red caps for the fuel tanks to look correct in the yellow strip space.  Even added a little streaking from the gas on the wing behind it.

For some reason i'm getting a yellow streak on the rear gear door and can't figure where it is coming from.  I'm wondering if like the cockpit strut issue if part of a wing segment is being used for the rear door texture... sigh...
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: ramzey on February 05, 2004, 10:50:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
If the wing skins are mirrored how come the top star and bar is only on one wing, same for the red L shaped marking on the inside of the flap?


surface of wings is mirrored, same as fuselage
but
stars, red L mark for "no step", right side of fuselage with Squadron letters markings, noseart are placed on overlayed object
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: GRUNHERZ on February 06, 2004, 01:31:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
surface of wings is mirrored, same as fuselage
but
stars, red L mark for "no step", right side of fuselage with Squadron letters markings, noseart are placed on overlayed object


So can you do that with camuflage on one wing top, make the whole camo scheme as this overlayed object so you end up with different camo pattern on the other wing?
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: MadBirdCZ on February 06, 2004, 03:30:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So can you do that with camuflage on one wing top, make the whole camo scheme as this overlayed object so you end up with different camo pattern on the other wing?
Short, easy and disappointing answer: NO
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: GRUNHERZ on February 06, 2004, 04:06:55 AM
Why not?

In graphic terms how is a camo pattern different from a star and bar insignia?
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: straffo on February 06, 2004, 04:20:11 AM
(short version)

Because the camo is applied to the whole surface of the wing when the marking is applied on a little surface of this wing.
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on February 06, 2004, 04:22:14 AM
I think what he is trying to say is this:

Example, the Red L:
Is added by the game engine.  It is not on any of the editable texture files for the skin.  So they are using the game engine to add the NON-MIRROR effect.  Thus you are unable to do anything about it to change it or duplicate the non-mirror effect thru editing the texture skin files.
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Frstrm on February 06, 2004, 04:26:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mitsu
Wow, what an amazing skin! great work!!! :aok


Thanks.

BTW, Love your sound pack.  Do you know if you are going to be able to do the same thing for AH2?
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: MadBirdCZ on February 06, 2004, 04:33:51 AM
and the asymetric "NO STEP" L-Shape is missing on the 51B model completely :(
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: ramzey on February 06, 2004, 08:19:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Why not?

In graphic terms how is a camo pattern different from a star and bar insignia?


camo need to be apply on all surface of wing
insygnia are only size of box with american star on the wing

i know where you going "smartass" ;-)

whine like this change nothing

is , like is and we cannot do anything now
Title: P51 Skin - Tuskegee
Post by: Mitsu on February 07, 2004, 03:45:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Frstrm
Thanks.

BTW, Love your sound pack.  Do you know if you are going to be able to do the same thing for AH2?


Yes, I will be back when HTC shifted to Aces High 2 from AH1.